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geekhack Community => Ergonomics => Topic started by: Phenix on Fri, 01 January 2016, 10:55:53
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Hello
Ive used full size for 15 years (2 ofthem wit mx blues).#german qwertz layout
Would anyone recomment me a hhkb or an ergodox?? Ive never used Topre so I dont know if hhkb would be good.
Im using the Numlad often, but mayve I get a mech one and place itright to the mouse
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HHKB+Realforce 23U would be a great combination if you need the number pad.
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Hello
Ive used full size for 15 years (2 ofthem wit mx blues).#german qwertz layout
Would anyone recomment me a hhkb or an ergodox?? Ive never used Topre so I dont know if hhkb would be good.
Im using the Numlad often, but mayve I get a mech one and place itright to the mouse
I used a full size for years as well and like you, the numpad was used quite often (at least on my work machine). I ended up going with a HHKB + Numpad and it's worked out great so far. If you can, I do recommend giving Topre a try before you buy if that's an option as they're not for everyone. If not, it seem like many folks have a pretty easy time selling them if they end up not liking it.
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Now that I have an Ergodox, I will never use a non-split keyboard again. Typing on a single-piece keyboard feels like mild torture; it's sooo cramped. The Ergodox has a great layout, full programmability, and a wonderful choice of switches (any MX or Alps). I wouldn't recommend any keyboard above an Ergodox.
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Thanks for the numpad link, would be an option.
The fully programmable interface of ergodox is nice, but I could also use autohotkey.
Would really.like.to try out alps/Topre, but its nearly impossible in Germany. I dont know one who has them and shops having
just considering flying to NY in next holidays,(around october), Is there any shop with an wide variety to try them out?
If not is there any big shop in a other big city(doesnt need to be NY,)
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Would really.like.to try out alps/Topre, but its nearly impossible in Germany. I dont know one who has them and shops having
getdigital.de has NovaTouch and some Matias keyboards including Ergo Pro. HHKB is pure unobtainium in Europe, unless you import it or buy used.
I absolutely recommend Matias Ergo Pro as a great compromise with a split layout and quiet switches (that can be modded too).
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And how could I mod them? Cause mx browns wasnr satisfying for me.
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These aren't Cherry MX; see chyros' video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Son03f8ul4E) (there's a thread somewhere too).
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can I get the ergoDox with LED?
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I think ill get a shine 5/mc blue cause im used.to them/like them.
If I get.the oppurtunity.to.try.topre cheap ill do, and.maybe i will buy the hhkb.
eegodox is also interesting, but afaik not backlighted
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I think ill get a shine 5/mc blue cause im used.to them/like them.
If I get.the oppurtunity.to.try.topre cheap ill do, and.maybe i will buy the hhkb.
eegodox is also interesting, but afaik not backlighted
I believe the Infinity Ergodox has a backlighting option, but the old one does not.
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There have been forked ErgoDox PCBs with backlight support, but never reached production on a larger scale. ErgoDox Infinity does physically support backlight, but I'm not sure, if it's already been implemented in firmware.
Either way, deciding between Ducky Shine and ErgoDox on the basis of backlight seems very weird to me. Learning curve, ergonomics, even distribution model is entirely different between the two keyboards.
@OP I recommend giving it some thought and doing some research in general in the first place. This appears to be a complete and utter mess so far.
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HHKB can't go wrong with that board
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HHKB can't go wrong with that board
Quite the contrary. It depends, how much one needs all the keys, that are pushed to a layer on HHKB, and it's not like everybody loves Topre either.
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I went from an ergodox to a hhkb to a planck. My personal gripes with the ergodox was the placement of the thumb keys; if only they were closer. After some time with the split feature; I no longer view it as an ergonomic feature for me personally, but more of a conscious disconnection between each hands when typing. Topre is just so very comfy to type on. My zealios planck provides the perfect combination of the two in my opinion. The hhkb may be up for sale; who knows.
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Ergodox
Even with the flawed thumb cluster, the layout is far more efficient than any normal layout keyboards.
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You may have a look at the Neo 2 Layout (http://neo-layout.org). You may also have a look at my blog (https://neo2-layout.blogspot.de/), my YouTube Playlist (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1u8LyxJPrwAfcA83m_q0gW-4LEOPxvBi) and the Keyboards I build (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78483.0;topicseen)
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Ergodox
Even with the flawed thumb cluster, the layout is far more efficient than any normal layout keyboards.
What's wrong with The thumb cluster?
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Ergodox
Even with the flawed thumb cluster, the layout is far more efficient than any normal layout keyboards.
What's wrong with The thumb cluster?
The thumb cluster is fine as long as you put some slightly taller keycaps on some of the 1u's to make them easier to hit. It's not perfect but in terms of efficiency, speed, and comfort, Ergodox is still miles ahead of any single-piece board.
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If you can, buy HHKB (just because you can sell it, and it holds the value).
Ergo-doxes are hard to sell, so I'f i had the cash, id first try and see what the good HHKB has to ofer.
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Basically a good idea, but I really don't know if there someone in Germany who would buy it
:-X
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Go for the Ergodox !!
I have one and since then I stopped searching for the perfetc Keyboard!
The split Layout beats anything I know.
I had once the chance to try a hkkb at uni, and i was not impressed at all. I hope topres get better when you get used to them. But I dont get the the Topre Hype.
*TBH for Traveling I use a 60% Keyboard. And I cant help but will buy a f62 to try buckling springs. But when it comes to Desktops I would highly recommend the ergodox.
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problem with ergodox is that's not that easy to get it.
Cause if I buy a kit ill have to build it and Im not that good at that. I also prefer backlit keyboards, so theres another problem (I know that's possible)
Best for me would be a ergodox with
Backlight (Prefer white/green or even rgb), dimmable
Cherry MX Blue or Clear or Green
and a mechanical numpad(preferred also backlight)<-only think I could buy <100€
So who sells my dream keyboard?? :rolleyes:
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problem with ergodox is that's not that easy to get it.
Cause if I buy a kit ill have to build it and Im not that good at that. I also prefer backlit keyboards, so theres another problem (I know that's possible)
Best for me would be a ergodox with
Backlight (Prefer white/green or even rgb), dimmable
Cherry MX Blue or Clear or Green
and a mechanical numpad(preferred also backlight)<-only think I could buy <100€
So who sells my dream keyboard?? :rolleyes:
It just depends on how important backlighting is for you. If you absolutely must have backlighting, you're cutting your options in half (at least).
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i know, or are there any other oppurtunities for lighting the keys?
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There is a guy here on gh that assembles keyboard (or 2 guys, one is from sweden other in germany i think)
If you get the kit, I'm sure they could assemble it for you (will cost you like 50euros)
And there's also the kit, which sadly will cost you around 150-250eur.
And yea, if you don't like it, you have to sell a 300eur keyboard (which will take a while).
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Look for ErgoDox EZ
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ergodox-ez-an-incredible-mechanical-keyboard#/
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FalbaTech is within EU and provides most parts as well as assembly; you can buy switches from, say, 7bit or even UK Amazon (cheaper) and have them shipped to czarek/FalbaTech for assembly. The trickiest part is getting keycaps.
But, you have to decide between quality/ergonomics and backlight, unless you'd go with DIY.
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If you want ergo and crazy backlighting, have you looked at the Keyboard.io Model 01?
I can't recommend the Ergodox. I have one and... Well that thumb cluster doesn't even work on the Kinesis Essential/Advantage where it's better placed, and the column staggering isn't aggressive enough to be comfortable and too much to be normal. Used it for a while and went back to my Model F because there just wasn't any advantage to lacking that many keys when it wasn't even that comfortable for me. Now it sits on my desk displaying my MX artisan keys.
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the keyboardio looks awesome.
Badly I didnt tried Matias switches for now
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I think the angle of the keyboardio thumb cluster is even worse. Thumb keys are a great idea, but to many oft them is counterproductive
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Is HHKB available in QWERTZ?
If not, you'd have to remap the keys, and swap keycaps around. But that would leave you with profile mismatch.
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I think the angle of the keyboardio thumb cluster is even worse. Thumb keys are a great idea, but to many oft them is counterproductive
If keyboard.io provides some way to remap keys or has an open firmware then having too much thumb keys is hardly a problem. You can always use only some of the thumb keys ... and remap the functionality you like to them.
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would be an option. I dont care about remapping the keys
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Ergodox user here.
Bought my ergodox exactly a year ago from falbatech, and built it myself (i have never hold a soldering iron in my hands before that), which was great fun.
I'm using my ergodox at work, and carry it home whenever I need to type a lot.
I guess it's a personal preference but I just love the split design, I find it very comfortable. As far as I see it is a love or hate thing. Some ppl loves it like me, others don't find it useful at all.
The other thing I love in the ergodox is it's fully programmable nature, and that it's considerably easy to modify it further. I installed a trackpoint module in the right half of my ergodox. It's just plain fantastic, as I rarely lift my hand from the keyboard during typing.
For the problematic thumb cluster: I find the two 2unit high keys very easy and ergonomic to reach. But of course it depends on what key you map on them. I mapped 'e', backspace, enter and space there so I use them a lot. The other keys in the thumb sector is not so easy to reach, so I mapped keys there which are not used so often. PgUp, layer switch keys, alt.
All in all: after using the ergodox for a year now, every workday (and I am a software developer), I don't think that I'll ever revert to a non-split design for daily typing.
I can't recommend the ergodox as I see it's not for everybody. Conservative users don't like the split design idea, but who fancy it, it can be really really comfortable and effective.
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ok. And whats about backlighting? and which keys did you choose? Just considering if Ill contact falbatech and ask them if they can build me one with blues.
Where did you got the keycaps? are doubleshot pbt (there sould be 65€) or something cheap?
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About backlighting: there is none, if you buy the version falbatech can provide.
They only version with backlit is the Infinity Ergodox, currently not available (the massdrop drop ended, and there is no new drop so far).
The choice of cherry mx switches is purely personal preference. I chosen brown and clear on the thumb section, and there are some black for modifiers.
I got the keycaps from pimpmykeyboards, they sell ergodox sets, though thy are DSA. Some ppl don'tt like them.
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please sent me a link, thinking about joining new infinity ergodox drop
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Have dox and HHKB.
HHKB wins out ever day of the week. :rolleyes:
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Have dox and HHKB.
HHKB wins out ever day of the week. :rolleyes:
Why?
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Have dox and HHKB.
HHKB wins out ever day of the week. :rolleyes:
Why?
because the feel of topre :thumb:
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Have dox and HHKB.
HHKB wins out ever day of the week. :rolleyes:
Why?
because the feel of topre :thumb:
Mainly Topre. I've also just grown accustomed to it, using one heavily the past few years.
The Ergodox is something that if i really, really used exclusively, would be excellent and very hard to want to go back to anything else. Personally I wish I had Matias QC's on my dox though.
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Just a short summary - would have bought ErgoDOX but Im to unsure if I would be able to do the soldering.
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if you like leds take infinity ergodox , they were there in massdrop now . pcb supports cherry and alps
or in falbatech they can assembly too..
and for different shape can take keyboardio
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Just a short summary - would have bought ErgoDOX but Im to unsure if I would be able to do the soldering.
If you don't already have a soldering iron, you can get one for fairly cheap and if you watch some tutorials on Youtube it's fairly simple to get the hang of. I found I got used to it quickly with no experience going in to it.
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HHKB's are awesome to type on but I could never get used to the layout. Not a fan. I'm TKL all the way. I just got in on the ergo infinity so I won't know if ergo is the way to go for another few months