geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: decker on Fri, 15 January 2016, 06:12:07

Title: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: decker on Fri, 15 January 2016, 06:12:07
Hello,
I've been looking around on the web for my dream keyboard and I can't find it.
If you could help I'd be forever grateful.

The main issue :
- Arrow keys : want them on main layer and in reversed T shape.
- AZERTY : need to be able to replace the caps to AZERTY.
- Programmable : need to be able to remap it.

Less important :
- ISO Enter key
- Wide Backspace key
- 4 or 5u space bar minimum
- Leds

I've just missed the "white fox" Group buy/build https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77434.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77434.0),
in ISO it covered a lot of my requirements.
I just don't know how switchable the caps are...

PS : I never built a keyboard, so first choice would be "off the shelf".

Thanks a lot!
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: Bromono on Fri, 15 January 2016, 06:29:13
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78549.msg2002610#msg2002610

Closest you will get.
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 15 January 2016, 06:33:43
Dude ok..  ERGODOX..  boom.. done.. YOU WIN...
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: xondat on Fri, 15 January 2016, 06:45:14
What form factor are you looking for?
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: decker on Fri, 15 January 2016, 07:15:49
Quote from: Bromono on Fri, 15 January 2016, 06:29:13
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78549.msg2002610#msg2002610
Closest you will get.

I was hoping to have no function keys as a regular 60%.

Quote from: tp4tissue on Fri, 15 January 2016, 06:33:43
Dude ok..  ERGODOX..  boom.. done.. YOU WIN...

I saw pictures of the ErgoDox, it looks really cool, are the caps standard, do you think I can get AZERTY caps for it ?

Quote from: xondat on Fri, 15 January 2016, 06:45:14
What form factor are you looking for?

I'm new in the KB world, I suppose form factor is used to describe dimensions and shape.
I would like to have a keyboard with full sized keys with non flat surface.
If there is a cheap solution I'd go regular staggered keyboard.
If all solutions are expensive, I'd go matrix split keyboard like ergo dox.

Thanks
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: henz on Fri, 15 January 2016, 07:18:33
 what you are looking for is a custom from gon it sounds youd be happy with a skinny:

http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/custom-kbds-w-assembly/28-gon-skinny-60-w-tuningassembly.html (http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/custom-kbds-w-assembly/28-gon-skinny-60-w-tuningassembly.html)
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: xondat on Fri, 15 January 2016, 07:46:47
Didn't see the 60% in the title; maybe a Neurtino?

http://ortholinearkeyboards.com/neutrino-top-plate
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: mashby on Fri, 15 January 2016, 12:57:42
I think Whitefox is your best bet. It's slightly bigger than 60% but checks all the other boxes.

There should be a round 2
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: decker on Fri, 15 January 2016, 15:28:07
Quote from: xondat on Fri, 15 January 2016, 07:46:47
Didn't see the 60% in the title; maybe a Neurtino?

http://ortholinearkeyboards.com/neutrino-top-plate
Yeah that would do. I'll have to look thru that site...

Quote from: henz on Fri, 15 January 2016, 07:18:33
what you are looking for is a custom from gon it sounds youd be happy with a skinny:

http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/custom-kbds-w-assembly/28-gon-skinny-60-w-tuningassembly.html (http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/custom-kbds-w-assembly/28-gon-skinny-60-w-tuningassembly.html)

No arrows on that one 😓

Quote from: mashby on Fri, 15 January 2016, 12:57:42
I think Whitefox is your best bet. It's slightly bigger than 60% but checks all the other boxes.

There should be a round 2

Do you know that for sure ?
I didn't catch all the details of the group buy...
Do you know if one could get compatible azaerty caps for it ?

Thanks
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: xondat on Fri, 15 January 2016, 18:39:37
Quote from: decker on Fri, 15 January 2016, 15:28:07
Do you know if one could get compatible azaerty caps for it ?

Finding Azerty caps is probably close to impossible with normal profiles (DCS, OEM, Cherry, SA) - DSA caps are all the same profile so you can create Azerty with those.
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: KaminKevCrew on Fri, 15 January 2016, 18:48:10
Quote from: mashby on Fri, 15 January 2016, 12:57:42
I think Whitefox is your best bet. It's slightly bigger than 60% but checks all the other boxes.

There should be a round 2

I think that given the fact that OP is looking for a "60% board with arrow keys on the main layer" they are actually looking for a 65% board.

Something like the leopold FC660 would be a good option, although I don't know if it's actually programmable or available in ISO...
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: ImpendingxDoom on Fri, 15 January 2016, 18:52:27
Quote from: decker on Fri, 15 January 2016, 07:15:49

Quote from: tp4tissue on Fri, 15 January 2016, 06:33:43
Dude ok..  ERGODOX..  boom.. done.. YOU WIN...

I saw pictures of the ErgoDox, it looks really cool, are the caps standard, do you think I can get AZERTY caps for it ?

+1 on the ErgoDox. I absolutely prefer DSA caps on my dox, so doing different layouts is no problem for me. If you are not used to non-sculpted caps it may help to have the ergodox tented/on an angle. It is incredibly easy to program any layers you want, it is a solid and comfortable board to use, and there are some fun customization options available. The only caveat is that it is a much different form factor and will take some time getting used to.
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: decker on Sat, 16 January 2016, 03:13:11
Quote from: KaminKevCrew on Fri, 15 January 2016, 18:48:10
I think that given the fact that OP is looking for a "60% board with arrow keys on the main layer" they are actually looking for a 65% board.
Something like the leopold FC660 would be a good option, although I don't know if it's actually programmable or available in ISO...

Well my first web search brought me to HHKB JP Pro and I wanted to know if there were similar boards.
(https://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/hhkeyboard/lineup/images/thumb_pdkb420w_l.jpg)

From a case size point of view that seems 60% to me, of course from number of keys point of view its not!
I don't know if there is a definitive rule for naming the board sizes...

Regarding the FC660, the lost space on the right is a heartbreaker !
(https://elitekeyboards.com/proddata/images/th/fc660m_full1000_th620x400.jpg)

Quote from: ImpendingxDoom on Fri, 15 January 2016, 18:52:27
+1 on the ErgoDox.

What would be my options to buy a barebone ErgoDox (assembled idealy) and buy DSA caps with Azerty layout (web site please ?)
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: Ludovician on Sat, 16 January 2016, 03:52:21
I recommend checking out the clueboard. It should be available very soon. It's the FC660M layout, but fully programmable and compatible with ISO.

http://clueboard.co/
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: KaminKevCrew on Sat, 16 January 2016, 10:58:38
Quote from: decker on Sat, 16 January 2016, 03:13:11
Quote from: KaminKevCrew on Fri, 15 January 2016, 18:48:10
I think that given the fact that OP is looking for a "60% board with arrow keys on the main layer" they are actually looking for a 65% board.
Something like the leopold FC660 would be a good option, although I don't know if it's actually programmable or available in ISO...

Well my first web search brought me to HHKB JP Pro and I wanted to know if there were similar boards.
Show Image
(https://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/hhkeyboard/lineup/images/thumb_pdkb420w_l.jpg)


From a case size point of view that seems 60% to me, of course from number of keys point of view its not!
I don't know if there is a definitive rule for naming the board sizes...

Regarding the FC660, the lost space on the right is a heartbreaker !
Show Image
(https://elitekeyboards.com/proddata/images/th/fc660m_full1000_th620x400.jpg)


Quote from: ImpendingxDoom on Fri, 15 January 2016, 18:52:27
+1 on the ErgoDox.

What would be my options to buy a barebone ErgoDox (assembled idealy) and buy DSA caps with Azerty layout (web site please ?)
DSA cap layout doesn't actually matter much at all. Since they are all one profile, you can easily swap them wherever you want on the board and it won't matter.
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: decker on Sat, 16 January 2016, 17:51:46
I didn't manage to find a DSA Azerty keyset.
I think the only option is to have some relegendable keycaps...

(For those of you who don't know Azerty changes position of some letters but also symbol pairing (1 is paired with & etc).
So you need a specific set for Azerty, you can't just move keys around from a Qwerty).
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: KaminKevCrew on Sat, 16 January 2016, 18:03:23
Quote from: decker on Sat, 16 January 2016, 17:51:46
I didn't manage to find a DSA Azerty keyset.
I think the only option is to have some relegendable keycaps...

(For those of you who don't know Azerty changes position of some letters but also symbol pairing (1 is paired with & etc).
So you need a specific set for aAzerty, you can just move keys around from a Qwerty).
What about granite with the International set?
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: qwack on Sat, 16 January 2016, 18:07:54
This is not the answer you want to read, but you'ill be doing yourself a huge favor by forgetting about azerty keycaps. Train yourself to type without relying on the legends and you'll be able to use any keyboard regardless on what is printed on the keys (currently typing in azerty on a qwerty keyset). Of course things can get complicated if you're sharing the keyboard with someone who will absolutely be unable to make the switch, but if you're the only one using it...

Otherwise, try to get a Pure Pro in azerty. That's what I'm currently using (I had the same requirements as you back when I bought it, looking back I regret not getting the ANSI version), you may be able to find one used. mechanicalkeyboards.nl still has a few of them, but ANSI only IIRC.
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: jerue on Sat, 16 January 2016, 18:20:55
Quote from: KaminKevCrew on Sat, 16 January 2016, 18:03:23
What about granite with the International set?

Round 4 of Granite is actually missing FR keys and OP would have to hunt them down from an earlier set...

There is the AZERTY Pure Pro as qwack said...I would also try for a WhiteFox as well.

For keycaps in Cherry profile, would OG AZERTY doubleshots/dyesubs work? They are certainly cheaper than the same caps in ANSI...

You might want to ask the folks at Deskthority as well if you haven't already. More Europeans on that site.
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: qwack on Sat, 16 January 2016, 18:42:04
FWIW Azhdar was planning to resell a small number of Cherry Raptor K1 boards in azerty for cheap: http://deskthority.net/achats-groupes-f25/raptor-k1-petit-lot-disponible-t12413.html

Perhaps you can grab one for the keyset, and make yourself a custom 65% board (not your first choice I know, but it's really not that hard, especially with all the help you can get from knowledgeable people around here and DT).
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: Connly33 on Sat, 16 January 2016, 18:48:02
Quote from: decker on Sat, 16 January 2016, 03:13:11

Well my first web search brought me to HHKB JP Pro and I wanted to know if there were similar boards.
Show Image
(https://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/hhkeyboard/lineup/images/thumb_pdkb420w_l.jpg)




Im glad that i now know this version of the HHKB exist's, im liking it even better than the standard.
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: decker on Sun, 17 January 2016, 03:00:45
Quote from: qwack on Sat, 16 January 2016, 18:07:54
This is not the answer you want to read, but you'ill be doing yourself a huge favor by forgetting about azerty keycaps.
I don't use symbols often enough to remember all of their exact positions...
I'm afraid that with a blank keyboard I'll get annoyed of all the typing errors I'll make.

Quote from: qwack on Sat, 16 January 2016, 18:07:54
Otherwise, try to get a Pure Pro in azerty. That's what I'm currently using (I had the same requirements as you back when I bought it, looking back I regret not getting the ANSI version), you may be able to find one used. mechanicalkeyboards.nl still has a few of them, but ANSI only IIRC.
Too bad it is out of stock it has so many of the features I'm looking for.
I should post an add to look for a used one I guess. Pm me if you really 'regret' having bought the ISO version.

Quote from: jerue on Sat, 16 January 2016, 18:20:55
Quote from: KaminKevCrew on Sat, 16 January 2016, 18:03:23
What about granite with the International set?
Round 4 of Granite is actually missing FR keys and OP would have to hunt them down from an earlier set...
There is the AZERTY Pure Pro as qwack said...I would also try for a WhiteFox as well.
For keycaps in Cherry profile, would OG AZERTY doubleshots/dyesubs work? They are certainly cheaper than the same caps in ANSI...
You might want to ask the folks at Deskthority as well if you haven't already. More Europeans on that site.

I did not see the French section on Deskthority. This would definitely increase my odds of finding all my options.

Quote from: qwack on Sat, 16 January 2016, 18:42:04
FWIW Azhdar was planning to resell a small number of Cherry Raptor K1 boards in azerty for cheap: http://deskthority.net/achats-groupes-f25/raptor-k1-petit-lot-disponible-t12413.html
Perhaps you can grab one for the keyset, and make yourself a custom 65% board (not your first choice I know, but it's really not that hard, especially with all the help you can get from knowledgeable people around here and DT).

I think its closed already.
I'll have to ask Azhdar about it.
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: qwack on Wed, 20 January 2016, 08:17:05
Quote from: decker on Sun, 17 January 2016, 03:00:45
Too bad it is out of stock it has so many of the features I'm looking for.
I should post an add to look for a used one I guess. Pm me if you really 'regret' having bought the ISO version.

I don't intend to part with mine right now, but there may be one for sale at hardware.fr soon. I'll check with the owner.
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: GL1TCH3D on Wed, 20 January 2016, 08:32:36
Quote from: Connly33 on Sat, 16 January 2016, 18:48:02
Quote from: decker on Sat, 16 January 2016, 03:13:11

Well my first web search brought me to HHKB JP Pro and I wanted to know if there were similar boards.
Show Image
(https://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/hhkeyboard/lineup/images/thumb_pdkb420w_l.jpg)




Im glad that i now know this version of the HHKB exist's, im liking it even better than the standard.

It was definitely a tough choice for me.

I might get one and convert it to hipro
Title: Re: Need help from 60% experts
Post by: Pdub on Wed, 20 January 2016, 08:59:57
Watching this closely. I really want an HHKB.