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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: ocdonkb on Thu, 26 November 2009, 01:42:42

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: ocdonkb on Thu, 26 November 2009, 01:42:42

.
.

Keyboard gods, please help me save this beauty. This is a Focus FK-2001 I'm trying to restore. It's got clicky white Alps switches.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5926&stc=1&d=1259220864)

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5927&stc=1&d=1259220874)


However one of the keys is dead. I've opened up the switch and didn't see anything obviously wrong(but then again, not sure what I'm looking for). The switch internals looked okay. I even connected the keyboard with the switch exposed, to manually trigger the contact point, still no go.

I don't know if my next step should be try and de-solder the switch? Because I do happen to have some spare ones ready for replacement.

It's a beautiful board, and the clicky Alps white is lovely. I'd hate hate hate to trash this board because of one dead switch.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: chimera15 on Thu, 26 November 2009, 02:01:45

Nice, real complicated's.  My 2001 has fakes.  You tried to push the leaf forward with your finger or a screwdriver with it plugged in and it didn't work?

You can open the case, plug it in, and try to use a wire, or clips or something conductive  to connect the offending switch terminals underneath the board to try to see if it really is the switch or something to do with the chip or matrix.  Or better if you have a multimeter with a continuity meter you can just use that to see if the switch is closing.

If you have extra switches of course, it's fairly simple to desolder it and replace it once you get it open.

It's likely it is the switch, the parts do get bent out of shape after thousands of keypresses.  I just had a complicated switch go dead on me out of nowhere on one of my modified siigs that I just did a few months ago.  You can usually get it to work again though without a major operation by taking off the actuation leaf, and putting a little more bend in it, so there's just enough room so that you can just get the key spring back in place.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: ocdonkb on Thu, 26 November 2009, 02:19:41

Quote from: chimera15;136401

You tried to push the leaf forward with your finger or a screwdriver with it plugged in and it didn't work?

Yeah, following the diagrams here (http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_alps_bigfoot.htm), and specifically this:

(http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech/alps_bigfoot1_j.gif)

so I used a screwdriver and pushed on the contact point. Still didn't work. But thanks for your suggestion about testing the terminals and using the multimeter, I'll give that a go.

I'll also try to fiddle with the shape of the contact leaf too.

thanks again.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: chimera15 on Thu, 26 November 2009, 02:26:16

Quote from: ocdonkb;136403

Yeah, following the diagrams here (http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_alps_bigfoot.htm), and specifically this:

Show Image

(http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech/alps_bigfoot1_j.gif)

so I used a screwdriver and pushed on the contact point. Still didn't work. But thanks for your suggestion about testing the terminals and using the multimeter, I'll give that a go.

I'll also try to fiddle with the shape of the contact leaf too.

thanks again.

Yeah good luck.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: Rajagra on Thu, 26 November 2009, 03:16:59

Sounds like a job for a continuity tester. Check the switch and the PCB tracks then decide what to do based on the results.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 26 November 2009, 03:18:42

Quote from: ocdonkb;136403

Show Image

(http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech/alps_bigfoot1_j.gif)

I like that second character on the label for the contact point on the left, it looks like a shower head.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: chimera15 on Thu, 26 November 2009, 03:33:06

Quote from: ch_123;136421

I like that second character on the label for the contact point on the left, it looks like a shower head.

lol

It means mark or spot by itself.

点
pronounced ten

I always thought of it more like a rocket ship that was launching, with a gantry that was aiming to hit a spot. lol

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: imsto on Thu, 26 November 2009, 05:55:55

actually  点 pronounced    ‘dee  and’   the last d should be canceld just pronounce that 'an'           read quickly  than it's 点

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: chimera15 on Thu, 26 November 2009, 13:35:14

Quote from: imsto;136456

actually  点 pronounced    ‘dee  and’   the last d should be canceld just pronounce that 'an'           read quickly  than it's 点

In chinese? Interesting.   Ten is the Japanese main pronunciation, which is what alps switches are...

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: microsoft windows on Thu, 26 November 2009, 14:18:02

I didn't install any language packs on my computer so it doesn't work with all those special characters.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 26 November 2009, 14:21:03

Ironically, I only see them in Windows as I have not installed proper Unicode support on my Linux machine. You can see the character we're talking about in the picture of the Alps switch.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: microsoft windows on Thu, 26 November 2009, 14:30:33

They all look like funny little numbers.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: Rajagra on Thu, 26 November 2009, 15:11:48

Quote from: microsoft windows;136549

They all look like funny little numbers.

Those are the character codes in hex if I recall rightly.
I install language packs now just to avoid the annoying messages you get otherwise. It's sad having to bloat the OS even more, but I gave in.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 26 November 2009, 15:16:40

Which browser are you using?

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: Rajagra on Thu, 26 November 2009, 15:20:27

Who? Me? Firefox now, but IE back when I installed the language packs.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 26 November 2009, 15:24:38

Ah yeah, I think they might come with Firefox. Either way, on my Windows 7 machines with Chrome I dont need to install anything. Not sure whether it is OS or Browser.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: keyb_gr on Thu, 26 November 2009, 18:28:26

I wouldn't be surprised if a current OS shipped with fonts covering a fairly large range of Unicode characters. Anyway, I used to have SM set up to use Arial Unicode MS for UTF-8 encoded pages but somehow SM 2.0RC1 onwards doesn't seem to like it any more, sometimes crashing repeatably.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: J888www on Thu, 26 November 2009, 18:45:11

Quote from: chimera15;136527

In chinese? Interesting.   Ten is the Japanese main pronunciation, which is what alps switches are...

His pronunciation is Mandarin Chinese, the Cantonese would differ (dim), but as you corrected we are both wrong because it's originated Japanese.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: chimera15 on Thu, 26 November 2009, 20:12:15

Quote from: keyb_gr;136614

I wouldn't be surprised if a current OS shipped with fonts covering a fairly large range of Unicode characters. Anyway, I used to have SM set up to use Arial Unicode MS for UTF-8 encoded pages but somehow SM 2.0RC1 onwards doesn't seem to like it any more, sometimes crashing repeatably.

Depending on the unicode your browser may not see the code.  There are special Japanese browsers, and add ins for firefox to read all the types of kanji.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: microsoft windows on Fri, 27 November 2009, 06:18:39

Maybe Internet Explorer 5 explains why I can't see any of those Japanese characters.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 27 November 2009, 06:32:04

Yes. Try using software that works.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: microsoft windows on Fri, 27 November 2009, 06:34:23

Like I'm too stupid to know that...I just don't want to waste disk space on language packs.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: ricercar on Fri, 27 November 2009, 15:37:37

Quote from: microsoft windows;136663

Maybe Internet Explorer 5 explains why I can't see any of those Japanese characters.

Does IE5 support FLash9 or 10? I was having problems on my old palmtop Hitachi with IE4.5.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: microsoft windows on Fri, 27 November 2009, 16:08:36

I don't use Flash Player since it's what makes all the annoying ads on the Internet work.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: chimera15 on Fri, 27 November 2009, 23:37:09

lol

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: ricercar on Sat, 28 November 2009, 02:52:00

My eyes, the goggles, they do nothing! don't click webwits' video...

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: chimera15 on Sat, 28 November 2009, 03:44:42

Those chicks were pretty hot for hippies though. lol

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: Rajagra on Sat, 28 November 2009, 03:51:23

Quote from: ricercar;136858

My eyes, the goggles, they do nothing! don't click webwits' video...

Don't go to the URL address shown in the video either. It is NOT the band's website!:shocked:

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: PRISONER 24601 on Sat, 28 November 2009, 03:55:26

Quote from: webwit;136770

But you'll miss out on all of the good stuff.

 that was ****ing Awesome.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: Rajagra on Sat, 28 November 2009, 04:02:17

Quote from: PRISONER 24601;136869

that was ****ing Awesome.

QFT. The "noughties" are nearly over, and what have we got to show of it that compares to that? Nothing. What a bland, crappy decade it has been!

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: keyb_gr on Mon, 30 November 2009, 03:15:43

Quote from: Rajagra;136871

QFT. The "noughties" are nearly over, and what have we got to show of it that compares to that? Nothing. What a bland, crappy decade it has been!

Anyone care to enlighten the flashless crowd about the content of said video? @home I have a secondary browser for that kind of stuff, but not right here...

But well, yeah, if you're looking for Real Big Things in pop music, this has been a rather unexciting decade. You've had to look more closely. The majors like to play it safe these days (which could kill them in the long run), and much of the interesting music only finds a place on smallish indie labels. It has been getting somewhat better in the last few years though.
Like progress, good music is not for granted. The second half of the 20th century just happened to be a great time for recordings.

Your new avatar is awesome btw.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 30 November 2009, 09:29:47

Quote from: ripster;137428

And although the vintage folks might disagree it is pretty easy today to get $2K Hifi with a $60 Sansa Clip.

I agree.  While I have heard debate to no end on this (from fairly ignorant folks, I might add), it's all in the encoding.  FLAC and other lossless methods sound just as good as the real thing.  I use the -alt preset method of MP3 encoding for my iPod for portablility.  It sounds about as good as MP3 can with very little compression artifacts (the -alt presets really don't compress much at all).  I keep a copy of FLAC and MP3 for most of my music.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 30 November 2009, 09:41:50

Quote from: ripster;137436

REACT - great addon to EAC. Encodes FLAC and MP3 at the same time and dumps it onto my media server.

I'll have to check that out.  Thanks.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: ocdonkb on Tue, 01 December 2009, 00:27:38

wow, this went OT like nobody's business. :)

An update on my Focus 2001 fixes... I disassembled the switch, took out the contact leaf(the small piece of metal that pushes on the contact point when you strike down on the key), and found that by manually pushing on the plastic contact point itself, the keyboard engages correctly.

This led me to believe the contact leaf itself was somehow "mal-formed". I slightly bent it a bit, so it's a tighter fit on the switch. Typing on it now, everything seem to be fixed.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 01 December 2009, 04:24:54

Quote from: ocdonkb;137683

wow, this went OT like nobody's business. :)

An update on my Focus 2001 fixes... I disassembled the switch, took out the contact leaf(the small piece of metal that pushes on the contact point when you strike down on the key), and found that by manually pushing on the plastic contact point itself, the keyboard engages correctly.

This led me to believe the contact leaf itself was somehow "mal-formed". I slightly bent it a bit, so it's a tighter fit on the switch. Typing on it now, everything seem to be fixed.

Awesome! Yeah that's what usually happens :)  Glad it was an easy fix.

Title: Heart break - One dead key :(
Post by: microsoft windows on Wed, 02 December 2009, 19:08:32

That's probably what went wrong with the 6 key in my number pad.