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geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: berserkfan on Wed, 03 February 2016, 11:20:51

Title: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: berserkfan on Wed, 03 February 2016, 11:20:51
My preference for the primaries is for Trump to beat Cruz, and Sanders to beat Clinton.

Then for the national election, any non Trump to Trump Trump. Not important who the non-Trump is, could be H Ross Perot, Ralph Nader, Bloomberg for all I care. Even if you gave a sex change and made H Rose Perot, rebuilt Nader into a cyborg and called him Vader, and took away 20 points of IQ from Bloomberg they would still be better than Trump.

The most important thing for US voters, as well as the planet, is to stop this nasty business as usual nonsense. US democracy is severely corrupted by big business and entrenched interests now, and pretty much all establishment people are ensnared. Even the NY Times has found that Ordinary Americans have no more influence on government policy than Ordinary Russians. You need a breath of fresh air, and you need non establishment candidates to make a good showing and send a powerful message.

A Chief Executive who owes nothing to big banks (unlike Obama, who was mostly elected on Big Bank funds) is necessary.

On the Repub side, only Trump has a reasonable chance of forging an independent, principled policy not tied to Big Interests and the other forces corrupting US democracy. Most of you guys are probably laughing when I say Trump might be principled. It just means Trump is less in hock to special interests and undemocratic forces than the professional long time Republicans. Trump just happens to be more principled compared to the Bush Family or Ted Cruz.

If the Republican party is to be saved and actually offer a political alternative to the Dems, they need Trump. Everybody else is a tool of some less democratic faction such as Cruz’s Crusaders.

And for the Dems, they’re straightforward a party of right wing business interests who just happen to be racially and culturally inclusive. Being Multicultural is a joke, because most Big Banks can also field a slate of colored faces and ethnic costumes from their employee rolls – but these people don’t represent anyone but the 1-percenters anywhere on the globe.

The politically correct language that Democrats like to employ insult my intelligence as much as the religious rhetoric of the Repubs. What do they not understand about the Rule of Law? Why should citizenship be granted to every Tomas, m’Dik and Hari just because these people have successfully snuck across the border? I broke into your house successfully, so now I am a legit resident?

Sanders is no socialist the way the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was socialist. Bernie Sanders is center/center right by European standards. The mainstream press in the USA just calls him socialist, because the better known Hillary Clinton is economically right wing so the positions that Bernie Sanders has staked out look pretty extreme left in comparison. I personally see him as better for most of the 99%.

Racist/ religious right wing Elephants vs non racist, politically correct right wing Donkeys, Donkeys look better to most people. But actually you’re just electing an ass to lord it over you. It’s still Goldman Sachs’ ass.

The biggest realistic danger that I see to the USA now, is a Marc Rubio nomination win after a tough fight, and a Clinton win after a tough fight. Both will be politically bruised. To win the presidential, they would have to call in lots of favors, raise funds, and basically do the same things that led to US politicians being in hock to private donors and undemocratic interests.

In the Presidential election, a Clinton Win will definitely be Business As Usual, with rising income inequality and the prospect of the white Middle Class weakening even further and less social consensus in future. Expect more racialized Republican demagoguery in future.

A Rubio win might be unpleasant to anyone not already a fervent Christian in the USA. Depending on how much he had to pander to the religious to gain votes from Cruz. The ‘good’ thing for most Americans, though, is that at least Rubio is less principled than Clinton. He’ll do whatever it takes, so he probably won’t kiss ass the religious right after they put him in power. He'd just kiss the asses of whoever is offering him some new temporary advantage.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 03 February 2016, 11:25:20
My preference for the primaries is for Trump to beat Cruz, and Sanders to beat Clinton.
This ^

I see Clinton as the worst case scenario.

Trump to win.

Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: FLFisherman on Wed, 03 February 2016, 11:25:53
Thank you for the summary. Unfortunately the election cycle is not something I have time to follow, so little blurbs like this are perfect for me.

I can't wait to watch the circus (caucus) when it gets to my city. I think we also host the last debate.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: jd29 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 11:27:09
Even if you gave a sex change and made H Rose Perot, rebuilt Nader into a cyborg and called him Vader, and took away 20 points of IQ from Bloomberg they would still be better than Trump.

Stopped reading right there. Trump's IQ is one of the highest and you know it.

Anyway, I really don't like Hillary. I haven't been paying attention to the Republicans, and Bernie seems like a good guy I guess. I don't really care - I can't imagine he could do too much to fix our political system.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 03 February 2016, 11:32:35
Even if you gave a sex change and made H Rose Perot, rebuilt Nader into a cyborg and called him Vader, and took away 20 points of IQ from Bloomberg they would still be better than Trump.

Stopped reading right there. Trump's IQ is one of the highest and you know it.
I have to agree. Trump is incredibly smart. The things he says to the media, the things that you might call dumb, are said for good reason. In "The Art of the Deal", published in 1987, he outlines exactly how to get the attention of the media, and every day he practices this exact tactic he outlined almost 30 years ago. Nothing he does is the result of any lack of intelligence people say he possesses; it's all calculated and engineered.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: fliptrik on Wed, 03 February 2016, 11:37:23
Even if you gave a sex change and made H Rose Perot, rebuilt Nader into a cyborg and called him Vader, and took away 20 points of IQ from Bloomberg they would still be better than Trump.

Stopped reading right there. Trump's IQ is one of the highest and you know it.

Anyway, I really don't like Hillary. I haven't been paying attention to the Republicans, and Bernie seems like a good guy I guess. So + Bernie. I don't really care - I can't imagine he could do too much to fix our political system.

That's kind of where I am. Bernie seems like a solid dude who just seems to actually want to help people. He also seems like the best of the lot this time around. His plans seem  to mean well but I wonder how much he can actually accomplish should he get the throne.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: cryptokey on Wed, 03 February 2016, 11:46:15
Well considering that Trump want's to ban all Canadians from entering the country, ban all Muslims from entering the country, kick out all the Mexicans, and build a great wall of Mexico which Mexicans would pay for. then not him.  :))

"I will build a great wall – and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me —and I'll build them very inexpensively. I will build a great, great wall on our southern border, and I will make Mexico pay for that wall. Mark my words." -Donald Trump

"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, okay? It's, like, incredible." –Donald Trump, speaking at a rally in Sioux Center, Iowa, January 23, 2016

Reminds me of our Rob Ford...
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: Waateva on Wed, 03 February 2016, 11:56:24
I would prefer Trump over the other Republicans if it comes to that, but I am behind Bernie all the way.  If Bernie loses the nomination and Trump wins it, I think I will still have to vote HIllary because even though I don't care for her, I dislike Trump's racist rhetoric much more even if he is better than Cruz or Rubio.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: Michael on Wed, 03 February 2016, 12:01:40
Even if you gave a sex change and made H Rose Perot, rebuilt Nader into a cyborg and called him Vader, and took away 20 points of IQ from Bloomberg they would still be better than Trump.

Stopped reading right there. Trump's IQ is one of the highest and you know it.
I have to agree. Trump is incredibly smart. The things he says to the media, the things that you might call dumb, are said for good reason. In "The Art of the Deal", published in 1987, he outlines exactly how to get the attention of the media, and every day he practices this exact tactic he outlined almost 30 years ago. Nothing he does is the result of any lack of intelligence people say he possesses; it's all calculated and engineered.


I certainly don't disagree here. Trump has proven this time and again. What I question is his ethical stances. I honestly believe that from this point alone, the people are not going to put him into office. Considering a large
number of voters are going to be minority or naturalized citizens, I can't see him getting any support there from his anti-foreigner policies. The people that support this antiquated thinking or either dead or on their way there (elderly).
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: n__dles on Wed, 03 February 2016, 12:07:52
Sanders is no socialist the way the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was socialist. Bernie Sanders is center/center right by European standards. The mainstream press in the USA just calls him socialist .. so the positions that Bernie Sanders has staked out look pretty extreme left in comparison.
In the European countries who's politics I'm familiar with, Bernie Sanders wouldn't be center-right, rather center-left. I haven't heard him say anything that I'd imagine most Europeans would call extreme, but his views are clearly left.

The word 'socialism' was misappropriated by the Russians because of the good connotations it had in Europe. The Americans ran with the Russians re-definition of socialism, but turned it on it's head and made it a pejorative. Socialism means production is owned and democratically controlled by the workers. Soviet Russia was arguably less socialist than the United States!

Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 03 February 2016, 12:14:30
Generally speaking voting this time around is like picking the lesser of two evils. 

Regardless of political affiliation I don't see any candidate who gives me hope and confidence anything will get better where I'm at in life.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 03 February 2016, 12:20:35
My preference is for primates to beat Trump, to beat Cruz, and to beat Sanders and Clinton.
^^^
How I read that sentence on first read. Yes, I would like to see that happen.  :))

Sometimes I think that Planet of the Apes - huh'merica would be preferable to present-day huh'merica.

The word 'socialism' was misappropriated by the Russians because of the good connotations it had in Europe.
And misappropriated by communists... Social-democracy was already an well-established movement when Marx and Engels founded communism.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: Waateva on Wed, 03 February 2016, 12:57:38
Even if you gave a sex change and made H Rose Perot, rebuilt Nader into a cyborg and called him Vader, and took away 20 points of IQ from Bloomberg they would still be better than Trump.

Stopped reading right there. Trump's IQ is one of the highest and you know it.
I have to agree. Trump is incredibly smart. The things he says to the media, the things that you might call dumb, are said for good reason. In "The Art of the Deal", published in 1987, he outlines exactly how to get the attention of the media, and every day he practices this exact tactic he outlined almost 30 years ago. Nothing he does is the result of any lack of intelligence people say he possesses; it's all calculated and engineered.


I certainly don't disagree here. Trump has proven this time and again. What I question is his ethical stances. I honestly believe that from this point alone, the people are not going to put him into office. Considering a large
number of voters are going to be minority or naturalized citizens, I can't see him getting any support there from his anti-foreigner policies. The people that support this antiquated thinking or either dead or on their way there (elderly).

Meh, my younger brother and younger cousins are all loudly proclaiming they are voting for Trump, but they are unabashed racists who like coal rolling and think there is a war on Christian white males in America.  So there are some people are aren't 60+ that are voting for Trump, but they carry the same views as their soon-to-be-dead counterparts.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: n__dles on Wed, 03 February 2016, 13:18:46
Considering a large
number of voters are going to be minority or naturalized citizens, I can't see him getting any support there from his anti-foreigner policies. The people that support this antiquated thinking or either dead or on their way there (elderly).
I've been surprised by how many non-US born people I've met in New York who are outspokenly pro-Trump. I think they like him because they see him as the embodiment of the American Dream.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: mobbo on Wed, 03 February 2016, 13:19:03
I don't know, as someone who isn't American I would really like to see Trump win - just to see how things shake out.

I'm not the type of person who wants to watch the world burn, but I would love to see Trump light himself on fire.  ;D

Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 03 February 2016, 13:26:09
People who support Trump are mostly imagining that he is somehow "anti-establishment" but they really have no concept of what "the Establishment" actually is.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 13:35:44
(https://giant.gfycat.com/SoggyDemandingIndiancow.gif)

Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 03 February 2016, 13:58:39
And we all used to think that Bush Jr was the family idiot.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 14:15:57
And we all used to think that Bush Jr was the family idiot.

Aside from his actual political stances, Jeb just seems like such a sweetie. I certainly wouldn't have the heart to tell him he won't get elected...
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:53:22
Show Image
(https://giant.gfycat.com/SoggyDemandingIndiancow.gif)


I can't tell, is that guy coming into him?  And is Jeb down for it?
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 03 February 2016, 16:04:00
I can't tell, is that guy coming into him?  And is Jeb down for it?

He is giving Jeb! the opportunity to earn that vote the old-fashioned way.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 03 February 2016, 19:35:24
Why are you guys so concerned with who wins the election.

If you really want change.. go make money.. and buy change..

That's how it's done in the real world..



Voting may sound good in principle, but in truth, it's a least resistance option for the public..



This is how the politicians trick you with voting..


Hey.. Vote for me,   you don't have to do anything,  vote for me and i'll get the job done..


Now the public thinks, Oh great, awesome, i just gotta sign this little piece of paper and that guy will do everything for me. hurray..


Then,  that guy turns out to be hooked up with the guys who ACTUALLY own your house, the land you live on , AND your very life through something called a Salary..


HAHAHA.. .  This fundamental concept of Democracy is GREAT, everyone has a say..

But, in practice.. we don't have such a system..  Those votes mean absolutely nothing, because what we say are NOT tallied..     We only DEFER decision to ONE person, who can not and Does not represent the democratic view of the people..


So in practice,  Democracy just doesn't work because we don't have the processing power to achieve it..



Maybe today we do,  but again, we need a computer president..   Vote IBM..
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: Air tree on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:47:37
Bernie sanders, but that's pretty typical for young people.


Bernie Vs Trump would be fantastic though. I feel Sanders has the better chance to beat Trump than most of the candidates.


Trump is disliked by a lot of people in the GOP and that helps the democratic party a lot.


Plus those two debating would so entertaining.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: berserkfan on Thu, 04 February 2016, 01:13:30
Just one comment

Seems like many of you people assume I think Trump is stupid. Did you not read my comparison of Trump to Bloomberg?

Trump is a Billionaire whose real estate tycoon father gave him a huge early start.

Bloomberg is a Multi Billionaire from a middle class family. He climbed up the investment banking business with few connections.

Trump made his money selling glitzy crap to idiots with no taste.

Bloomberg made his money selling Information to the smartest people and top think tanks around the world.

Bloomberg is at least $30 billion richer than Trump, and probably has at least 30 points of IQ higher.

I'm guessing Trump's IQ at 120-140 and Bloomberg's IQ at 160-180.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: berserkfan on Thu, 04 February 2016, 01:28:34
Anyway unlike the fools who just hate on Trump because they want to sound smart...

I still prefer Trump more than any Republican candidate.

I just don't think a Trump presidency would be better than anything the independent candidates or the Donkeys can muster.

And for the last time, Trump did not say to Ban All Muslims Forever and Unconditionally from the USA. He's NOT Hitler.

"Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on," a campaign press release said.

The context was the San Bernadino shooting. Someone just came from Pakistan/Saudi Arabia by arranged marriage and within a couple years she had radicalized her husband. Trump wanted an investigation into why it was so often Muslims involved in these things. It's a fair comment. You need to be able to tell your consular officials to ask the right questions, look for the correct profiles, etc. Unlimited, unquestioned travel is not a human right.

If the USA were plagued by shootings at synagogues conducted by fresh off the plane German immigrants, we would seriously need to investigate why also. Was it because Mein Kampf is now legal? Are there hate organizations in Germany that Merkel is hiding? Etc. Until then, visitors from Germany would also need that additional scrutiny. Now I'm pretty sure the New York Times, AIPAC, J-Street and Steven Spielberg won't be so keen to defend the visitation rights of Germans when it is their Jewish asses on the line.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 04 February 2016, 01:35:30
I'd rather see Rand Paul than Trump (but he "suspended" his campaign).  Rand Paul may have some crazy ideas, but I feel he's less bat**** than most the Republican party and more willing to listen to arguments with evidence even if he personally disagrees with them.

On the Dem side, Sanders hands down.  How anyone could support Hillary is beyond me.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: baldgye on Thu, 04 February 2016, 02:39:02
Even if you gave a sex change and made H Rose Perot, rebuilt Nader into a cyborg and called him Vader, and took away 20 points of IQ from Bloomberg they would still be better than Trump.

Stopped reading right there. Trump's IQ is one of the highest and you know it.
I have to agree. Trump is incredibly smart. The things he says to the media, the things that you might call dumb, are said for good reason. In "The Art of the Deal", published in 1987, he outlines exactly how to get the attention of the media, and every day he practices this exact tactic he outlined almost 30 years ago. Nothing he does is the result of any lack of intelligence people say he possesses; it's all calculated and engineered.

It's partly what makes his so terrifying a prospect.
I don't follow US politics too much, or really at all recently, but I dislike the whole culture of 'following' political parties or people. Politicians are by enlarge the worst of us, they are suppose to represent the people yet only represent the people who fund them. Corruption is everywhere and absolute, I feel like if you 'follow' anyone your part of the problem.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: iri on Thu, 04 February 2016, 06:07:30
The word 'socialism' was misappropriated by the Russians because of the good connotations it had in Europe. The Americans ran with the Russians re-definition of socialism, but turned it on it's head and made it a pejorative. Socialism means production is owned and democratically controlled by the workers. Soviet Russia was arguably less socialist than the United States!
I always knew that Murica is a commie.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Thu, 04 February 2016, 06:39:19
http://southpark.cc.com/clips/154582/debate-2004
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:37:08

less bat**** than most the Republican party

How anyone could support Hillary is beyond me.


Hillary is an unattractive candidate but how anyone could vote Republican is beyond me.

And the down-ticket races are, if anything, more important than the presidential election.

Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: Air tree on Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:41:40

less bat**** than most the Republican party

How anyone could support Hillary is beyond me.


Hillary is an unattractive candidate but how anyone could vote Republican is beyond me.

And the down-ticket races are, if anything, more important than the presidential election.
I need to quit visiting the politics sub-reddit.

I'm very much for Bernie, But Everything is either Pro-Bernie or a Hillary witch hunt.

I don't like Hillary as a candidate as much as the next guy, but the GOP-esque hatred of her, albeit for different reasons, is rather off putting.

Reddit is like a scary bastion of irrationality at times...

Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: berserkfan on Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:45:26


On the Dem side, Sanders hands down.  How anyone could support Hillary is beyond me.

You say this because you are a young man.

The reason not to vote Hillary is the same reason why old white and black people and rich, established interests want Hillary.

That's why Sanders has strong support from the young, and prosperous white East Coasters prefer Hillary.

BTW I really hate it when the MSM calls Cruz and Rubio Latino candidates.
Jacobolus is probably going to come swinging at me, but as far as I can see these are 100% white people.
Cruz and Rubio will never be stopped at the border and strip searched by the INS.
Cruz and Rubio will never be questioned for driving expensive cars.
Cruz and Rubio will never have anyone praising their English.
Cruz and Rubio will never have the police called on them if they get mad and start shouting at someone.
There is some doubt about them being 'natural born US citizens', but they will never have their citizenship questioned so aggressively and disrespectfully as black people like Obama.

As far as I am concerned Cruz and Rubio are just white people who are more religious than Trump.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: Waateva on Thu, 04 February 2016, 08:09:35
I'd rather see Rand Paul than Trump (but he "suspended" his campaign).  Rand Paul may have some crazy ideas, but I feel he's less bat**** than most the Republican party and more willing to listen to arguments with evidence even if he personally disagrees with them.

Rand Paul reminds me a little of the rep. from my area actually, Justin Amash.  While I disagree with a lot of his ideas I still respect that he will stick to them whether it's supported by his party or not, but he also seems willing to at least listen to all sides of an argument before making a decision.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 04 February 2016, 08:29:17
Rand Paul reminds me a little of the rep. from my area actually, Justin Amash. 

And Republican Rep. Justin Amash of Michigan explains why the upcoming fights might be a problem for the GOP:

“The public is not behind us, and that’s a real problem for our party.”
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: Michael on Thu, 04 February 2016, 21:10:36
You're welcome.


http://trumpdonald.org/
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: noisyturtle on Thu, 04 February 2016, 22:22:40
Deez Nutz
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: deduction on Fri, 05 February 2016, 02:55:30
Bernie to win it all.  If he can overcome Hillary, he'll win the general.  Mathematically, it will be very hard for the republicans to win the electoral college with a candidate like Trump or Cruz.  The real question is how effective can Bernie be without the support of Congress.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: berserkfan on Fri, 05 February 2016, 05:17:11
Bernie to win it all.  If he can overcome Hillary, he'll win the general.  Mathematically, it will be very hard for the republicans to win the electoral college with a candidate like Trump or Cruz.  The real question is how effective can Bernie be without the support of Congress.

As I said, the whole thing is really about bringing in fresh air and sending a message.

To really reform Congress requires the American people to vote out the 'business as usual' scum.

That will not happen until the voters are really, really fed up. Maybe when the 1% has about 99% of all wealth and income. Right now the voters are still merely somewhat disgruntled.

I don't believe a President Sanders can do anything with a Congress that is 100% against him. Use of Presidential Veto is useless because it is existing ways that need to be changed, rather than bad new radical things that need to be blocked.

US tax regime already allows Big Corporations to have unlimited freedoms and pay practically no tax. To change existing laws you need Congress and there is no way they will favor the US small man over the Big Businesses.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 05 February 2016, 07:51:35
The real question is how effective can Bernie be without the support of Congress.

This is why Big Money has always been so intensely focused on down-ticket races. If the Democratic Party has anything less than bullet-proof majorities in both houses of Congress the Radical Right can pretty much block anything of consequence, and they have proven that they will do so at every opportunity.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: berserkfan on Fri, 05 February 2016, 08:16:27


This is why Big Money has always been so intensely focused on down-ticket races. If the Democratic Party has anything less than bullet-proof majorities in both houses of Congress the Radical Right can pretty much block anything of consequence, and they have proven that they will do so at every opportunity.

Fohat, it is more than just that. The democrats are not interested in serious reform even if they have the majorities.

That's why I consider a bruising fight very dangerous for Americans. The more bruising, the more funds need to be raised. The more you have these unaccountable 'donors' coming in and people owing political favours that will eventually lead to laws being passed to benefit this company or that business sector.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: berserkfan on Fri, 05 February 2016, 12:53:54


This is why Big Money has always been so intensely focused on down-ticket races. If the Democratic Party has anything less than bullet-proof majorities in both houses of Congress the Radical Right can pretty much block anything of consequence, and they have proven that they will do so at every opportunity.

Fohat, it is more than just that. The democrats are not interested in serious reform even if they have the majorities.

That's why I consider a bruising fight very dangerous for Americans. The more bruising, the more funds need to be raised. The more you have these unaccountable 'donors' coming in and people owing political favours that will eventually lead to laws being passed to benefit this company or that business sector.

Right after I said this, I found that the NYTimes has an article about Hillary getting paid tons of money from the banks.

Quote in NYT:  an excerpt from Senator Elizabeth Warren’s 2003 book, “The Two-Income Trap,” in which she accused Mrs. Clinton of shifting her position on bankruptcy legislation when she became a New York senator to appease her Wall Street donors, a charge Mrs. Clinton has denied. “She could not afford such a principled position,” Ms. Warren wrote. “Campaigns cost money and that money wasn’t coming from families in financial trouble.”

Trump v Sanders will be a much healthier election than almost any other combo. Because Big Money will find a way in otherwise.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: deduction on Sun, 07 February 2016, 14:57:32


This is why Big Money has always been so intensely focused on down-ticket races. If the Democratic Party has anything less than bullet-proof majorities in both houses of Congress the Radical Right can pretty much block anything of consequence, and they have proven that they will do so at every opportunity.

Fohat, it is more than just that. The democrats are not interested in serious reform even if they have the majorities.

That's why I consider a bruising fight very dangerous for Americans. The more bruising, the more funds need to be raised. The more you have these unaccountable 'donors' coming in and people owing political favours that will eventually lead to laws being passed to benefit this company or that business sector.

Democrats at-large are not ready for, and do not want, the "President Sanders" reforms; as much as I would like to disagree, I cannot.  However, we should not sell ourselves short, as a nation, and simply accept defeat at the hands of big money.  This is why Clinton's message of "only small, achievable changes, nothing radical, no mooonshots" is so disturbing.  She wants to preserve the status quo because she is very much status quo.  If we as a country want to change that normal operating style, we must start somewhere. 

We, as a country, have not previously shown a huge appetite for democratic socialism ala Nordic Europe.  Sanders, and to a lesser extend Elizabeth Warren, serves as a sole poster child for populism in America.  I blame this on the American electorate - we have not clamored for populism for nearly two generations.  Without Sanders' influence, democrats will continue to edge (sprint?) right of center.  As it stands, nominating Sanders would certainly spark a firestorm of change within the democratic party, but it would take at least one or two congressional cycles until he could count on the support of likeminded legislatures.  Realistically, it would probably take far longer because many incumbent democrats would need to be unseated.  His policies may never reach the required level of support to win congressional seats, especially because statistics show that democratic voters do a terrible job of showing up to non-presidential elections in recent decades.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 07 February 2016, 23:18:18


This is why Big Money has always been so intensely focused on down-ticket races. If the Democratic Party has anything less than bullet-proof majorities in both houses of Congress the Radical Right can pretty much block anything of consequence, and they have proven that they will do so at every opportunity.

Fohat, it is more than just that. The democrats are not interested in serious reform even if they have the majorities.

That's why I consider a bruising fight very dangerous for Americans. The more bruising, the more funds need to be raised. The more you have these unaccountable 'donors' coming in and people owing political favours that will eventually lead to laws being passed to benefit this company or that business sector.

Democrats at-large are not ready for, and do not want, the "President Sanders" reforms; as much as I would like to disagree, I cannot.  However, we should not sell ourselves short, as a nation, and simply accept defeat at the hands of big money.  This is why Clinton's message of "only small, achievable changes, nothing radical, no mooonshots" is so disturbing.  She wants to preserve the status quo because she is very much status quo.  If we as a country want to change that normal operating style, we must start somewhere. 

We, as a country, have not previously shown a huge appetite for democratic socialism ala Nordic Europe.  Sanders, and to a lesser extend Elizabeth Warren, serves as a sole poster child for populism in America.  I blame this on the American electorate - we have not clamored for populism for nearly two generations.  Without Sanders' influence, democrats will continue to edge (sprint?) right of center.  As it stands, nominating Sanders would certainly spark a firestorm of change within the democratic party, but it would take at least one or two congressional cycles until he could count on the support of likeminded legislatures.  Realistically, it would probably take far longer because many incumbent democrats would need to be unseated.  His policies may never reach the required level of support to win congressional seats, especially because statistics show that democratic voters do a terrible job of showing up to non-presidential elections in recent decades.

the -Big Money- you're talking about buys as many democrats as they do republicans..

Nothing will stop big money..  MONEY is everything.. it is the very will of the people..  a vote is nothing next to a dollar spent..

Everyone knows the ideals, we all say we're gonna do right,   but then  we go shopping with our "Real" dollars and buy (vote) for all the wrong things that we promised ourselves we wouldn't
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: digi on Sun, 07 February 2016, 23:35:17
3 words......white power.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: berserkfan on Sun, 07 February 2016, 23:59:29
3 words......white power.

This is 2016 not 1816.

Even though 69% of registered voters are white you can't win an election on racial terms anymore. Only country where it's still acceptable to play the race card all the time is Malaysia.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: R1N3 on Mon, 08 February 2016, 00:15:41
Why are you guys so concerned with who wins the election.

If you really want change.. go make money.. and buy change..

That's how it's done in the real world..



Voting may sound good in principle, but in truth, it's a least resistance option for the public..



This is how the politicians trick you with voting..


Hey.. Vote for me,   you don't have to do anything,  vote for me and i'll get the job done..


Now the public thinks, Oh great, awesome, i just gotta sign this little piece of paper and that guy will do everything for me. hurray..


Then,  that guy turns out to be hooked up with the guys who ACTUALLY own your house, the land you live on , AND your very life through something called a Salary..


HAHAHA.. .  This fundamental concept of Democracy is GREAT, everyone has a say..

But, in practice.. we don't have such a system..  Those votes mean absolutely nothing, because what we say are NOT tallied..     We only DEFER decision to ONE person, who can not and Does not represent the democratic view of the people..


So in practice,  Democracy just doesn't work because we don't have the processing power to achieve it..



Maybe today we do,  but again, we need a computer president..   Vote IBM..

Objectively the most grounded statement made in this thread
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 08 February 2016, 00:24:19
Why are you guys so concerned with who wins the election.

If you really want change.. go make money.. and buy change..

That's how it's done in the real world..



Voting may sound good in principle, but in truth, it's a least resistance option for the public..



This is how the politicians trick you with voting..


Hey.. Vote for me,   you don't have to do anything,  vote for me and i'll get the job done..


Now the public thinks, Oh great, awesome, i just gotta sign this little piece of paper and that guy will do everything for me. hurray..


Then,  that guy turns out to be hooked up with the guys who ACTUALLY own your house, the land you live on , AND your very life through something called a Salary..


HAHAHA.. .  This fundamental concept of Democracy is GREAT, everyone has a say..

But, in practice.. we don't have such a system..  Those votes mean absolutely nothing, because what we say are NOT tallied..     We only DEFER decision to ONE person, who can not and Does not represent the democratic view of the people..


So in practice,  Democracy just doesn't work because we don't have the processing power to achieve it..



Maybe today we do,  but again, we need a computer president..   Vote IBM..

Objectively the most grounded statement made in this thread

R1N3,  I'm glad you like my post..  but IDK if any Ghers has told you, that perhaps Tp4 _Might_ be what they call _a looney_.. 

My intention is to be objective..  Tp4 am pro democracy and pro big-government..  , alas humans are terribly flawed..

(http://i.imgur.com/cu73Joj.gif)
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: azhdar on Mon, 08 February 2016, 05:17:32
Yep gotta agree, while I always vote, I realise it's useless (maybe local elections to some extent).

It will indeed come down to people coming down in the streets and kicking the politics when people will be fed up enough. But with the way we are brain washed in school & television, we will most likely sit in our couch watching The Voice.

The reason why the world is turning more and more toward liberalism is because our rulers are bad, therefore we can't have a strong government and it's better to have capital rule the world. But capital ruling the world leads to so so many more problems.

The problem is politics spend more time deciding what is best for their image, what is most likely getting them re-elected rather than what is best for people.

We have someone in France in charge of the Agricol ministry, I'm not even sure he has been a farm in his life. Politics should be competent people in the field they work on rather than a politic who's only asset is looking/talking good in public.

If only they would spend less time on TV/radio/... talking and more acting.


The day the street will take over is gonna hurt some fine seated fat politics.
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 08 February 2016, 09:21:16
Was cleaning up my office and found this helpful guide from the last election cycle.
Nothing has changed much except that you would substitute "Ben Carson" for "Herman Cain"
Title: Re: US Elections: who do you support?
Post by: digi on Mon, 08 February 2016, 20:03:29
Only country where it's still acceptable to play the race card all the time is Malaysia.

I want to move to Malaysia..