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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: vorpalll on Sat, 06 February 2016, 01:08:26

Title: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: vorpalll on Sat, 06 February 2016, 01:08:26: Saw a link to this somewhere & I was intrigued. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Plum84-electrostatic-capacitive-mechanical-keyboard-topre-clone-compact-gaming-keyboard-PBT-keycap-detachable-cable-84-mini/32598836635.html

Was looking into a cm novatouch so smaller & cheaper would be nice, but idk if this would work as well? Has anyone tried it? I couldn't find any reviews through a cursory google search. I also have no idea if the retailer is reputable either lmao
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: Shaussman on Sat, 06 February 2016, 01:18:47: I haven't tried it but I really like the look of that. The MX compatible stems are just icing on the cake
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: Bucake on Sat, 06 February 2016, 01:43:18: i wonder of the spacebar is pbt :D
35g is quite low, though!
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Sat, 06 February 2016, 09:56:01: PLUM, Noppoo, and RK all seem to be one big, happy (maybe) family, so I expect these will be the same switches you get on an RK RC930 or a Noppoo EC108. If you can wait a couple of months, I'll be able to report back about my RC930, or you could look at comments from people who already have them.

P.S. PLUM are kind of awesome. I don't know anything about their build quality, but they've built some crazy **** in their lifetime layout-wise. Gotta love anyone nuts enough to decide that Backspace isn't a very important key and can safely be moved to around where Print Screen usually goes to make room for more important things.

(http://99hk.biz/Plum/86_Key/2.jpg)

...I'm actually a little bit tempted to pick up one of their 108 key RGB models with Gateron switches (yes, really), as much to reward them for having brought us such beautiful madness as anything else. But maybe that would be putting too many of my eggs in one basket, manufacturer-wise, since I've already got a Noppoo too. We'll see.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 06 February 2016, 10:07:05: People often says that topre clone is noh as refined as topre
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: Bucake on Sat, 06 February 2016, 10:36:33: damn, i'd love to try a layout like that (where Return is next to L).
i would then just put backspace next to P and remove the entire numpad area. maybe i'd just move it to the left side of the keyboard.
but yeah, cool layout :D
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Sat, 06 February 2016, 10:48:54: wow... that backspace layout.... just wow.
but yeah, regarding
Quote from: bocahgundul on Sat, 06 February 2016, 10:07:05
People often says that topre clone is noh as refined as topre

i'm not surprised if it comes out as another novatouch...
but seeing the price..... holy hell, now i'm tempted to buy one. :eek:
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: FLFisherman on Sat, 06 February 2016, 10:51:53: Quote from: Dymloslouire on Sat, 06 February 2016, 10:48:54
but seeing the price..... holy hell, now i'm tempted to buy one. :eek:

Same here. The only thing I'm worried about is that circular base. Don't some MX keyaps have compatibility issues with it?
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Sat, 06 February 2016, 11:01:49: Quote from: FLFisherman on Sat, 06 February 2016, 10:51:53
Quote from: Dymloslouire on Sat, 06 February 2016, 10:48:54
but seeing the price..... holy hell, now i'm tempted to buy one. :eek:

Same here. The only thing I'm worried about is that circular base. Don't some MX keyaps have compatibility issues with it?

could you specify what compatibility issues is it?
i don't remember there's any compatibility problem with that circular base.. remembering there's so many ppl who brought novatouch and didn't experiencing any problem except some artisan-diy keycaps that have it's stem diameter bigger than the circular base..

wow, seeing the product page, so the keycaps itself are pbt.. :-X
hmm, i need some time to decide....
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: FLFisherman on Sat, 06 February 2016, 11:04:16: Quote from: Dymloslouire on Sat, 06 February 2016, 11:01:49
Quote from: FLFisherman on Sat, 06 February 2016, 10:51:53
Quote from: Dymloslouire on Sat, 06 February 2016, 10:48:54
but seeing the price..... holy hell, now i'm tempted to buy one. :eek:

Same here. The only thing I'm worried about is that circular base. Don't some MX keyaps have compatibility issues with it?

could you specify what compatibility issues is it?
i don't remember there's any compatibility problem with that circular base.. remembering there's so many ppl who brought novatouch and didn't experiencing any problem except some artisan-diy keycaps that have it's stem diameter bigger than the circular base..

wow, seeing the product page, so the keycaps itself are pbt.. :-X
hmm, i need some time to decide....

Ahh, that was the issue. You're right, it's just a few artisan caps that have differently-shaped stems that have problems. Most keycaps shouldn't have any issue.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: derb2k2 on Sat, 06 February 2016, 14:11:08: nice. Dat arrow cluster is pretty cool but I'm wondering if these stems would be serviceable in Realforce or HHKB. I'd harvest those things ASAP.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: Shaussman on Sat, 06 February 2016, 14:17:43: Quote from: Bucake on Sat, 06 February 2016, 01:43:18
35g is quite low, though!

Damn, suddenly my interest in this board is gone. It's too bad that that clones often/usually don't let you choose stiffness.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Sat, 06 February 2016, 14:23:36: Quote from: Shaussman on Sat, 06 February 2016, 14:17:43
Quote from: Bucake on Sat, 06 February 2016, 01:43:18
35g is quite low, though!

Damn, suddenly my interest in this board is gone. It's too bad that that clones often/usually don't let you choose stiffness.

Why not choose 45g then? If you follow the link, there's a choice of 35g or 45g.

There's a 55g version that RK uses as well, so if you want something even heavier, you can wait and see if PLUM will adopt it as well.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: Shaussman on Sat, 06 February 2016, 17:57:06: Because I'm dumb and didn't see the 45g option...
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: shareandenjoy on Sat, 06 February 2016, 22:42:36: Quote from: Shaussman on Sat, 06 February 2016, 17:57:06
Because I'm dumb and didn't see the 45g option...

Maybe not so dumb my friend:

Keyboard Options:
--1) 35g Non-RGB;

-- 2) 35g RGB.( the option states 45g which is wrong, since it's in promotion, we could not revise it temporarily).
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: qazeqaz on Sat, 06 February 2016, 22:55:18: Nova Touch clone, could be cool to modify a HHKB or Topre. Not too high of a price either.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: Shaussman on Sun, 07 February 2016, 00:12:59: Quote from: shareandenjoy on Sat, 06 February 2016, 22:42:36
Quote from: Shaussman on Sat, 06 February 2016, 17:57:06
Because I'm dumb and didn't see the 45g option...

Maybe not so dumb my friend:

Keyboard Options:
--1) 35g Non-RGB;

-- 2) 35g RGB.( the option states 45g which is wrong, since it's in promotion, we could not revise it temporarily).

It's like a rollercoaster of emotion

Moral of the story: read the ad
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: ander on Sun, 07 February 2016, 03:05:41: I don't know why a layout like this turns you on so much. A 1u Backspace over on the numpad, so you're continually lifting your hand and feeling around over there for a key that should be where your R hand usually is? And cursor keys inserted in the alphanumeric area? That's about the least ergonomic placement for any often-used keys.

Sure, you'd eventually get used to all that—but are you going to stop using your other standard-layout boards then? Or keep readjusting back and forth?

Or maybe this is supposed to be the TKL for people who still want a TK? I suppose that'd make some sense... But how many extremes do you go to before it makes more sense just to use a full-size KB and be done with it?

These remind me of the NIB Unitek K258s some of us found on eBay last year:

(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/RZ0AAOSwLN5WkCV~/s-l1600.jpg)

Sure, it was fun scoring new Alps boards for ~$30 each. But I can tell you first-hand: That layout is not designed for comfort. And that's without the displaced Backspace.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Sun, 07 February 2016, 09:09:57: It's not so much the layout itself that I like, but rather the fact that they were crazy enough to try a layout like that in the first place. It's nice to see someone daring to experiment, even when it might not work out, y'know?

That said, I don't really have an issue with the arrow key placement. I never found having arrow keys in that area to be an issue on old Apple keyboards, and I don't use the lost modifier keys for anything anyway. If anything, it might be nice to have arrow keys in easy thumb/pinky range while typing. The backspace, though, would be a problem, as would the fact that most of the punctuation seems to have gone running off to the function row. Ah well. At least, unlike most keyboard makers, they actually gave it a proper-sized enter key...
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 08 March 2016, 15:29:38: Sup, Brosepfs. I bought one of these and decided to make myself the guinea pig. Probably will post a review soon.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: kekman on Tue, 08 March 2016, 16:59:50: I'll be heading up to china where there are a lot of cheap topre clones with mx compatible stems, might try some out and even bring one back if I can afford any. I can't say I like the look of the layout posted earlier in the thread though
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: ideus on Tue, 08 March 2016, 17:21:52: Quote from: FoxWolf1 on Sat, 06 February 2016, 09:56:01
PLUM, Noppoo, and RK all seem to be one big, happy (maybe) family, so I expect these will be the same switches you get on an RK RC930 or a Noppoo EC108. If you can wait a couple of months, I'll be able to report back about my RC930, or you could look at comments from people who already have them.

P.S. PLUM are kind of awesome. I don't know anything about their build quality, but they've built some crazy **** in their lifetime layout-wise. Gotta love anyone nuts enough to decide that Backspace isn't a very important key and can safely be moved to around where Print Screen usually goes to make room for more important things.

Show Image
(http://99hk.biz/Plum/86_Key/2.jpg)

...I'm actually a little bit tempted to pick up one of their 108 key RGB models with Gateron switches (yes, really), as much to reward them for having brought us such beautiful madness as anything else. But maybe that would be putting too many of my eggs in one basket, manufacturer-wise, since I've already got a Noppoo too. We'll see.

Interesting and a very unconventional layout.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 09 March 2016, 14:25:09: I think I'll pick one of these to replace my Keycool as my gaming board, have been interested in Topre and love the 75% layout.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 14 May 2016, 14:34:15: Ordered mine a while ago.
Very light weight with cushioning while bottoming out: easy and comfortable for the fingers, and quite a change of pace from my choc mini with Gateron black.
:thumb:

(https://i.imgur.com/qYfr8zq.jpg)
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 14 May 2016, 14:44:41: After doing some research, these are apparently dental banded out of the box.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: dante on Sat, 14 May 2016, 23:36:56: I'm too lazy to make an Aliexpress account; I'm waiting for MechanicalKeyboards.com or Massdrop to offer these; preferably in 35g non-backlit version.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Sun, 15 May 2016, 00:24:11: Quote from: menuhin on Sat, 14 May 2016, 14:34:15
Ordered mine a while ago.
Very light weight with cushioning while bottoming out: easy and comfortable for the fingers, and quite a change of pace from my choc mini with Gateron black.
:thumb:

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/qYfr8zq.jpg)

whoa, nice :p
how do you like it? have you compared it with other topre boards?
i really want to pull the trigger on this, but i don't have the courage to do it lol
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: menuhin on Sun, 15 May 2016, 12:44:22: I definitely like it as a keyboard that I won't feel fatigue with prolonged typing. It can be so light that I initially thought I may accidentally register a key or two from time to time. However, this doesn't really happen during use, as my fingers are not really resting on the keys and my hands are not that heavy.

I don't have a Topre keyboard to compare this keyboard to ("unfortunately" in lack of cash) but I don't like the layout of most of the Topre keyboard: I LOVE the 84 key layout, and I think TKL is not space-saving enough.

Regarding the feel of these 35g EC switches, I would say it is so light that it feels almost like "Cherry MX red with bottoming out cushioning", however, if you pay attention to pressing without bottoming out, you may feel the super light tactile bump of the Topre-style rubber dome. People in general say the Chinese Topre clone switches feel more like Topre at 55g, i.e. the tactile bump is more pronounced at their 55g version, more similar but still not equal to the 45g Topre switches.

In any case, it is a high quality keyboard, at least as high, or of higher quality than the Choc mini I have.

I want a Topre that is of 84 layout / Planck, with RGB backlight, and with bluetooth-USB duo operation mode... Can I? ;)

Quote from: Dymloslouire on Sun, 15 May 2016, 00:24:11
Quote from: menuhin on Sat, 14 May 2016, 14:34:15
Ordered mine a while ago.
Very light weight with cushioning while bottoming out: easy and comfortable for the fingers, and quite a change of pace from my choc mini with Gateron black.
:thumb:

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/qYfr8zq.jpg)

whoa, nice :p
how do you like it? have you compared it with other topre boards?
i really want to pull the trigger on this, but i don't have the courage to do it lol
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: fwssm on Mon, 16 May 2016, 03:54:24: If you guys get any interest in PLUM,jion the Tencent QQ group, 207756776,we'll be there for your questions......
The PLUM is created by Admurder,whom we call "The Great A";he is also a joint-creater of the gateron switches,and the zealio.......
He did make a lot of changes compared to the Topre.Exchange the ABS with POM and that sort of thing.......So PLUM did feel quite different with RF.....But he did a lot of test,more than 10 millons for each switch......I think it's worth trying.....
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: need on Mon, 16 May 2016, 04:46:58: Can anyone do some keyboard science with it?
Would love to see the inside (domes/dental bands/PCB etc)
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Mon, 16 May 2016, 06:57:09: hmm, i guess i'll order one from aliexpress.. this is quite interesting.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: menuhin on Mon, 16 May 2016, 09:16:12: Quote from: need on Mon, 16 May 2016, 04:46:58
Can anyone do some keyboard science with it?
Would love to see the inside (domes/dental bands/PCB etc)

I found these links for the Noppoo 108EC-Pro, which should be of the same built to this PLUM 84 (NiZ) in terms of domes/dental bands.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hksilicon.com%2Farticles%2F583723 (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hksilicon.com%2Farticles%2F583723)
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hkepc.com%2Fforum%2Fviewthread.php%3Ftid%3D2079319 (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hkepc.com%2Fforum%2Fviewthread.php%3Ftid%3D2079319)

What I do want to know is how Noppoo or PLUM varies the weight grading of these EC switches (35g, 45g, 55g)?
Do they change the rubber dome? Do they change the springs underneath? Or do they change both the rubber dome and the springs?
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: supamesican on Mon, 16 May 2016, 12:30:48: Hmm it has 45g option, the lowest I will go, I'll get one some time and try it out!
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Mon, 16 May 2016, 13:59:19: PLUM owners, what do you think of the quality?

From following Massdrop comments, it seems like more and more owners of the RK version, myself included, have noticed their keyboards developing problems over time-- ghosting, dropped keys, etc. It's really a shame, because the key feel and the feature set are both top notch, especially if you take the price into consideration, but if the thing doesn't function properly, no amount of good "feel", programmability, or flashy lighting effects can outweigh the annoyance.

Anyway, I wonder if the various brands within the Noppoo/PLUM/RK family have different levels of QC. The PCB on my four-year-old Noppoo definitely strikes me as nicer than the one in the RK (and MUCH nicer than, for example, the one in my Keycool *shudder*), but this could just as easily be a generational issue rather than anything you'd see reflected in the brands now.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: need on Mon, 16 May 2016, 18:31:53: Quote from: menuhin on Mon, 16 May 2016, 09:16:12
Quote from: need on Mon, 16 May 2016, 04:46:58
Can anyone do some keyboard science with it?
Would love to see the inside (domes/dental bands/PCB etc)

I found these links for the Noppoo 108EC-Pro, which should be of the same built to this PLUM 84 (NiZ) in terms of domes/dental bands.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hksilicon.com%2Farticles%2F583723 (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hksilicon.com%2Farticles%2F583723)
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hkepc.com%2Fforum%2Fviewthread.php%3Ftid%3D2079319 (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hkepc.com%2Fforum%2Fviewthread.php%3Ftid%3D2079319)

What I do want to know is how Noppoo or PLUM varies the weight grading of these EC switches (35g, 45g, 55g)?
Do they change the rubber dome? Do they change the springs underneath? Or do they change both the rubber dome and the springs?
In terms of Topre, the springs provides absolutely nothing to the feel, it's just part of the capacitive mechanism.
So my guess is they have varied domes.
Title: Re: Has anyone tried this 75% topre clone? (Plum84)
Post by: shrubkeys on Mon, 16 May 2016, 19:39:25: Quote from: need on Mon, 16 May 2016, 18:31:53
In terms of Topre, the springs provides absolutely nothing to the feel, it's just part of the capacitive mechanism.
So my guess is they have varied domes.

Actually, I'm not all that sure you're right. As we know, RF/Topre does use differently-weighted domes - but Royal Kludge (so presumably Noppoo/Plum. as well) I believe actually uses a different method. IIRC, the difference inside between the RK 45g and 55g was that there was one single dome type - with two different *spring* types. The varying spring forces created the different switch weightings.