geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: knowsnokb on Sat, 27 February 2016, 10:51:51

Title: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: knowsnokb on Sat, 27 February 2016, 10:51:51
What happens to keyswitches when the reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?

Do they just break?
Do the springs snap?
The plastic wear off?
The circuit breaks?
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 27 February 2016, 11:00:57
I would say most of the time switches that are good to start with, that is no problems from the factory, outlast the keyboards they are put into.
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: chyros on Sat, 27 February 2016, 11:09:02
The contacts probably wear out.
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: 3K on Sat, 27 February 2016, 11:18:05
They explode.
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: Bucake on Sat, 27 February 2016, 11:58:52
they vaporize
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 27 February 2016, 12:11:08
Probably almost half of the Apple Extended Keyboards (AEK "1") that I have bought have had 2-6 dead switches, but otherwise I have found dead switches to be rare.

Technically, I suspect that these would be better described as "broken" rather than "worn out" but there are many ways for a tiny assembly of half a dozen to a dozen parts to fail.
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: Rad on Sat, 27 February 2016, 13:17:07
So did they have a robot push down on a key 50 million times?
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: falkentyne on Sat, 27 February 2016, 13:26:49
At 50,000,001, you had better stop or this happens....

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 27 February 2016, 14:12:48
The Heat Death of the Universe.
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: Findecanor on Sat, 27 February 2016, 18:10:44
For Cherry MX, I suppose that the leaf spring inside it will wear out: bend and possible break. No more circuit and no more tactility.
If it was a tactile switch, the feel should have been diminished already by that time though.

BTW, I have had the top housing break on a switch -- not much used though.

Quote from: fohat.digs on Sat, 27 February 2016, 12:11:08
Probably almost half of the Apple Extended Keyboards (AEK "1") that I have bought have had 2-6 dead switches, but otherwise I have found dead switches to be rare.
Switches can also wear being pressed all the time... and in case of Alps: suffer greatly from dust.
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: njbair on Sat, 27 February 2016, 21:38:00
Food and medicine have expiration dates, but it's not like the milk turns sour at 12:01 a.m. That's just the latest the company is willing to sell it. I'm sure key switches last even longer than 50 million presses, but at that point any reasonable person is going to have to concede that they got their money's worth.
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 28 February 2016, 00:55:10
I can imagine the leafs getting thinner and thinner until they just wear away.  But that would take many more than 50M presses.
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 28 February 2016, 08:46:16
Basically.. the keypress becomes inconsistent, chattering, or intermittent operation as the leaf spring wears out.. (http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/info-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862510)
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: jamster on Sun, 28 February 2016, 20:52:44
It would take 10.7 years of non-stop typing at 70wpm to wear out the switch under the letter E (most common letter used in English). I'm pretty sure the keyboard would have been defenestrated well before approaching that limit.
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: demik on Sun, 28 February 2016, 20:54:18
you have to go outside and start talking to people

*shudders*
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: Vittra on Sun, 28 February 2016, 20:59:14
Quote from: demik on Sun, 28 February 2016, 20:54:18
you have to go outside and start talking to people

*shudders*

throwing my filco out, nothing is worth this
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 29 February 2016, 03:31:13
Quote from: jamster on Sun, 28 February 2016, 20:52:44
It would take 10.7 years of non-stop typing at 70wpm to wear out the switch under the letter E (most common letter used in English). I'm pretty sure the keyboard would have been defenestrated well before approaching that limit.

I think I did a calculation like this a couple of years ago.  CBF searching for it though, yours will do as an approximation :)
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 29 February 2016, 11:09:10
I've never come across a broken switch due to just age, but like other people I'd have to assume the contact points would just degrade or the leaves would break in some way.

Quote from: Rad on Sat, 27 February 2016, 13:17:07
So did they have a robot push down on a key 50 million times?

They actually do have a machine just to press the switches
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 29 February 2016, 13:56:23
Quote from: Rad on Sat, 27 February 2016, 13:17:07
So did they have a robot push down on a key 50 million times?

Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: piemancoder on Mon, 29 February 2016, 16:29:38
They won't immediately magically stop working, the 50m measure is a very safe measure.

Quote from: Blaise170 on Mon, 29 February 2016, 13:56:23
Quote from: Rad on Sat, 27 February 2016, 13:17:07
So did they have a robot push down on a key 50 million times?


Was just about to link this video.
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 29 February 2016, 17:03:41
Maybe the Germans know? (http://i.imgur.com/hauLImD.gif)
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: ander on Tue, 01 March 2016, 02:25:14
I had a Cherry MX blue quit on me once. Well, it didn't exactly quit. It stopped generating characters, that's true. But the strangest stuff did happen whenever I pressed it—for example:

Okay, I realize that last one was a bit of a stretch.
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 05 March 2016, 05:14:52
So testing for 50 million keystrokes - how long would that take?

Assuming 10 presses per second (which might be a bit high depending on how long the switch takes to return to rest), that is 5,000,000 seconds.

Which is around 57 days, 20 hours, 53 minutes, 20 seconds.

So about 2 months to test a switch?  Does that sound right?

The above video mentioned that some switches were tested to 100M presses - 4 months continual bashing?
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: vincentk14 on Sat, 05 March 2016, 07:09:11
my friend once told me that his keyboard will reach 50M key press
he said he will press it until 50M key press and see what happening
after few days, some people in suit come to his house
and after that i never see him again
rumour said if you press the 50,000,001 times, you will get abducted and sent to area 51 for alien research


i miss my friend :-[
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 05 March 2016, 12:08:55
Quote from: vincentk14 on Sat, 05 March 2016, 07:09:11
my friend once told me that his keyboard will reach 50M key press
he said he will press it until 50M key press and see what happening
after few days, some people in suit come to his house
and after that i never see him again
rumour said if you press the 50,000,001 times, you will get abducted and sent to area 51 for alien research


i miss my friend :-[

50,000,001 - 000,000 = 51

Math checks out
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: Malenky on Sat, 05 March 2016, 13:18:19
This

More
(http://i.imgur.com/KsJrDT1.jpg)
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: merlin64 on Sat, 05 March 2016, 16:48:18
We should start a "50 million key press tour" in which we take one brand new switch and mail it to the list of people. Everyone who receives it has to press on it a number of times and post results haha.

When we get close to the last 100 presses, the last person needs to make a live feed so we can all watch. Once it reaches 50 million, everyone watching gets to bet on when they think the switch will break. All proceeds go to GeekHack, but the person who gets closest to the number of times before the switch fails, will have GeekHack buy them a keyboard of their choice using a portion of the proceeds. =).
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: knowsnokb on Sat, 05 March 2016, 23:06:30
Can't verify but I've heard they evolve to the switch of a different kind, like a Pokemon.
Depends how your pressed it over the course of its 50,000,000 presses.
Blues could turn to greens
cherrys could turn to topres
Really depends how you treated it
Still can't verify though.
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: piemancoder on Sun, 06 March 2016, 08:39:49
Quote from: knowsnokb on Sat, 05 March 2016, 23:06:30
cherrys could turn to topres

Is this how a Novatouch is made?
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: Capnmycraw on Sun, 06 March 2016, 09:50:14
The nova era of evolution.
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: captsis on Sun, 06 March 2016, 17:03:35
I'd imagine BS have a rating as well, no?
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 09 March 2016, 04:12:50
Quote from: matt2dlg on Sun, 06 March 2016, 17:03:35
I'd imagine BS have a rating as well, no?

Dunno about a rating - most of those keyboards are 25+ years old and still going strong!

A bit of discussion about it here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=23843.0).
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: chyros on Wed, 09 March 2016, 04:46:42
Quote from: matt2dlg on Sun, 06 March 2016, 17:03:35
I'd imagine BS have a rating as well, no?
25 M membrane, >100 M capacitive. It's not the springs or the plastic, it's the contacts.
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: Zeal on Wed, 09 March 2016, 05:42:01
Nothing happens, the switch continues to work. Companies realistically test the switch actuations way past 50M, then cut their results a bit to a nice round number.
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: pr0ximity on Wed, 09 March 2016, 06:48:25
Hall Effect have alledgedly been tested up to 30 billion keypresses, though how that could have veen done is a mystery I think.
Title: Re: What happens to keyswitches when they reach/go over/ approach the 50M key press?
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 09 March 2016, 14:27:33
Quote from: pr0ximity on Wed, 09 March 2016, 06:48:25
Hall Effect have alledgedly been tested up to 30 billion keypresses, though how that could have veen done is a mystery I think.
Maybe the Mormons know?  :))