I'm not saying anyone here is fundamentally a bad person.
Bernie, probably maybe even the best person ever..
HOWEVER, the way in which he envisions control will not function properly in the long run..
The government is good..
Capitalism is good.
but the important part is balance of power..
When either systems have too much.. the populace suffers
I'm not saying anyone here is fundamentally a bad person.
Bernie, probably maybe even the best person ever..
HOWEVER, the way in which he envisions control will not function properly in the long run..
Please stop. Not even actual experts can make forecasts like that. :(
The government is good..
Capitalism is good.
but the important part is balance of power..
When either systems have too much.. the populace suffers
Capitalism without socialism is Fascism
Socialism without Capitalism is Communism
You need both of them to work with each other.
But I would personally take a capitalistic government with some socialist aspects than a socialist government with some capitalistic aspects.
heres how I see it
trump = racist fascist
hilary = lel money monger
bernie = socialist extremist
I still tilt to the left
heres how I see it
trump = racist fascist
hilary = lel money monger
bernie = socialist extremist
I still tilt to the left
Only in America would Bernie be considered a "socialist extremist"
heres how I see itFTFY :p
trump = racist fascist
hilary =lel money mongerlel "let's just put really important **** on private servers lol"
bernie = socialist extremist
I still tilt to the left
we lose either way
Capitalism without socialism is Fascism
Socialism without Capitalism is Communism
heres how I see it
trump = racist fascist
hilary = lel money monger
bernie = socialist extremist
I still tilt to the left
Only in America would Bernie be considered a "socialist extremist"
He intends to RULE the capitalists.
heres how I see it
trump = racist fascist
hilary = lel money monger
bernie = socialist extremist
I still tilt to the left
Only in America would Bernie be considered a "socialist extremist"
He intends to RULE the capitalists.
Where in the nine hells did you get this from. All he wants to do is get corporations and the upper 1% to pay their fair share of taxes, close loopholes that allow these people to pay less tax dollars then the working class, and possibly penalize companies for moving jobs overseas.
Please explain how this would be a bad thing. With his plan in place, working class (~$100k and under house hold income) will see roughly 10% more money, and this is on top of another 13 million jobs generated.
Please explain how this would be bad for the economy.
heres how I see it
trump = racist fascist
hilary = lel money monger
bernie = socialist extremist
I still tilt to the left
Only in America would Bernie be considered a "socialist extremist"
He intends to RULE the capitalists.
Where in the nine hells did you get this from. All he wants to do is get corporations and the upper 1% to pay their fair share of taxes, close loopholes that allow these people to pay less tax dollars then the working class, and possibly penalize companies for moving jobs overseas.
Please explain how this would be a bad thing. With his plan in place, working class (~$100k and under house hold income) will see roughly 10% more money, and this is on top of another 13 million jobs generated.
Please explain how this would be bad for the economy.
Let's say you're an independent business owner.
Now, the government, some corrupt guy, or just some bad people come to you for a large donation..
Do you give it to them ? You don't want to right ?
However, if your money is IN THE UNITED STATES, they can compel you to do so, because there are means for government to freeze those funds, and make it very difficult for you to operate.
I know as an individual, you probably can't fathom this ever happening, but large corporations deal with this kind of strong-arming all the time.
What these tax loopholes allow corporations to do, is shift money around, such that the government isn't able to completely Dominate their war-chest.
That money won't help the economy.. its ultimate use to corporations is leverage and independence..
I think Bernie, may indeed mean well when he says he wants to bolster our economy.. But the way in which he intends to do it, by closing tax loopholes is not how it should be done.
Exactly. This is a major reason I like Bernie. Every large donation the Bernie has ever gotten from a major corporation, as a feeble attempt to "buy" him, gets donated to charity.heres how I see it
trump = racist fascist
hilary = lel money monger
bernie = socialist extremist
I still tilt to the left
Only in America would Bernie be considered a "socialist extremist"
He intends to RULE the capitalists.
Where in the nine hells did you get this from. All he wants to do is get corporations and the upper 1% to pay their fair share of taxes, close loopholes that allow these people to pay less tax dollars then the working class, and possibly penalize companies for moving jobs overseas.
Please explain how this would be a bad thing. With his plan in place, working class (~$100k and under house hold income) will see roughly 10% more money, and this is on top of another 13 million jobs generated.
Please explain how this would be bad for the economy.
Let's say you're an independent business owner.
Now, the government, some corrupt guy, or just some bad people come to you for a large donation..
Do you give it to them ? You don't want to right ?
However, if your money is IN THE UNITED STATES, they can compel you to do so, because there are means for government to freeze those funds, and make it very difficult for you to operate.
I know as an individual, you probably can't fathom this ever happening, but large corporations deal with this kind of strong-arming all the time.
What these tax loopholes allow corporations to do, is shift money around, such that the government isn't able to completely Dominate their war-chest.
That money won't help the economy.. its ultimate use to corporations is leverage and independence..
I think Bernie, may indeed mean well when he says he wants to bolster our economy.. But the way in which he intends to do it, by closing tax loopholes is not how it should be done.
Please stop. This is not how it works, at all. :(
Corporations are not "independent business owners." They are multi-billion dollar organizations with more pull than you could even begin to fathom. They are not being strong-armed or being asked for "large donations." They actually give these donations on their own in order to "buy" politicians. It's actually one of the major points of this election cycle.
You should go back to talking about toilet paper.
Please stop. This is not how it works, at all. :(
Corporations are not "independent business owners." They are multi-billion dollar organizations with more pull than you could even begin to fathom. They are not being strong-armed or being asked for "large donations." They actually give these donations on their own in order to "buy" politicians. It's actually one of the major points of this election cycle.
Exactly. This is a major reason I like Bernie. Every large donation the Bernie has ever gotten from a major corporation, as a feeble attempt to "buy" him, gets donated to charity.
So what is the downside of that?
Exactly. This is a major reason I like Bernie. Every large donation the Bernie has ever gotten from a major corporation, as a feeble attempt to "buy" him, gets donated to charity.
Again.. I'm not saying Bernie is a bad guy.. But there will be serious repercussions to disallow off shore stashing of funds..
So what is the downside of that?
Exactly. This is a major reason I like Bernie. Every large donation the Bernie has ever gotten from a major corporation, as a feeble attempt to "buy" him, gets donated to charity.
Again.. I'm not saying Bernie is a bad guy.. But there will be serious repercussions to disallow off shore stashing of funds..
Also, on companies and getting "strong armed", what say you about Carrier getting a $5.1million tax cut, and within weeks announcing that they are moving ALL production and distribution to Mexico. Putting 7k plus people out of a job.
So what is the downside of that?
Exactly. This is a major reason I like Bernie. Every large donation the Bernie has ever gotten from a major corporation, as a feeble attempt to "buy" him, gets donated to charity.
Again.. I'm not saying Bernie is a bad guy.. But there will be serious repercussions to disallow off shore stashing of funds..
Also, on companies and getting "strong armed", what say you about Carrier getting a $5.1million tax cut, and within weeks announcing that they are moving ALL production and distribution to Mexico. Putting 7k plus people out of a job.
Carrier will do that regardless..
Strong armed, is when the government wants 30%-50% of your earnings.. Maybe very large corporations, this is ok, but for startups.. that is a major barrier.
Those percentages only apply to profits over a fairly large amount. In the '30s and '40 it was ~$400,000 iirc. Now move that to today's dollars, and startups have a long way to go before they need to worry about that.So what is the downside of that?
Exactly. This is a major reason I like Bernie. Every large donation the Bernie has ever gotten from a major corporation, as a feeble attempt to "buy" him, gets donated to charity.
Again.. I'm not saying Bernie is a bad guy.. But there will be serious repercussions to disallow off shore stashing of funds..
Also, on companies and getting "strong armed", what say you about Carrier getting a $5.1million tax cut, and within weeks announcing that they are moving ALL production and distribution to Mexico. Putting 7k plus people out of a job.
Carrier will do that regardless..
Strong armed, is when the government wants 30%-50% of your earnings.. Maybe very large corporations, this is ok, but for startups.. that is a major barrier.
Those percentages only apply to profits over a fairly large amount. In the '30s and '40 it was ~$400,000 iirc. Now move that to today's dollars, and startups have a long way to go before they need to worry about that.So what is the downside of that?
Exactly. This is a major reason I like Bernie. Every large donation the Bernie has ever gotten from a major corporation, as a feeble attempt to "buy" him, gets donated to charity.
Again.. I'm not saying Bernie is a bad guy.. But there will be serious repercussions to disallow off shore stashing of funds..
Also, on companies and getting "strong armed", what say you about Carrier getting a $5.1million tax cut, and within weeks announcing that they are moving ALL production and distribution to Mexico. Putting 7k plus people out of a job.
Carrier will do that regardless..
Strong armed, is when the government wants 30%-50% of your earnings.. Maybe very large corporations, this is ok, but for startups.. that is a major barrier.
If your company is making a million in legit profits that is no longer a startup. At that point the taxes barriers are incentive to pay employees a decent wage (reduces gross profits), expand the business (again reduces gross profits), or pay Uncle Sam. The higher taxes are only paid on profits over that dollar amount, not on all profits.Those percentages only apply to profits over a fairly large amount. In the '30s and '40 it was ~$400,000 iirc. Now move that to today's dollars, and startups have a long way to go before they need to worry about that.So what is the downside of that?
Exactly. This is a major reason I like Bernie. Every large donation the Bernie has ever gotten from a major corporation, as a feeble attempt to "buy" him, gets donated to charity.
Again.. I'm not saying Bernie is a bad guy.. But there will be serious repercussions to disallow off shore stashing of funds..
Also, on companies and getting "strong armed", what say you about Carrier getting a $5.1million tax cut, and within weeks announcing that they are moving ALL production and distribution to Mexico. Putting 7k plus people out of a job.
Carrier will do that regardless..
Strong armed, is when the government wants 30%-50% of your earnings.. Maybe very large corporations, this is ok, but for startups.. that is a major barrier.
Startups as in someone's keycaps business. .no nothign to worry about, but most startups that actually has a shot, are medium sized, and they can get near the million dollar barrier very quickly.. and that is when all their momentum becomes weakened if viable tax loopholes are not exploited..
The big established corporations are not the ones I'm worried about, even though in principle, I believe they should be allowed off shore stashing, but they're going to find a way regardless of the rules..
But it is bad for everyone -in the middle-... where innovation is FASTEST...
If your company is making a million in legit profits that is no longer a startup. At that point the taxes barriers are incentive to pay employees a decent wage (reduces gross profits), expand the business (again reduces gross profits), or pay Uncle Sam. The higher taxes are only paid on profits over that dollar amount, not on all profits.
If your company is making a million in legit profits that is no longer a startup. At that point the taxes barriers are incentive to pay employees a decent wage (reduces gross profits), expand the business (again reduces gross profits), or pay Uncle Sam. The higher taxes are only paid on profits over that dollar amount, not on all profits.Those percentages only apply to profits over a fairly large amount. In the '30s and '40 it was ~$400,000 iirc. Now move that to today's dollars, and startups have a long way to go before they need to worry about that.So what is the downside of that?
Exactly. This is a major reason I like Bernie. Every large donation the Bernie has ever gotten from a major corporation, as a feeble attempt to "buy" him, gets donated to charity.
Again.. I'm not saying Bernie is a bad guy.. But there will be serious repercussions to disallow off shore stashing of funds..
Also, on companies and getting "strong armed", what say you about Carrier getting a $5.1million tax cut, and within weeks announcing that they are moving ALL production and distribution to Mexico. Putting 7k plus people out of a job.
Carrier will do that regardless..
Strong armed, is when the government wants 30%-50% of your earnings.. Maybe very large corporations, this is ok, but for startups.. that is a major barrier.
Startups as in someone's keycaps business. .no nothign to worry about, but most startups that actually has a shot, are medium sized, and they can get near the million dollar barrier very quickly.. and that is when all their momentum becomes weakened if viable tax loopholes are not exploited..
The big established corporations are not the ones I'm worried about, even though in principle, I believe they should be allowed off shore stashing, but they're going to find a way regardless of the rules..
But it is bad for everyone -in the middle-... where innovation is FASTEST...
So no one is thinking "aw, it's Bernie, let him have four years c'mon" ?
If your company is making a million in legit profits that is no longer a startup. At that point the taxes barriers are incentive to pay employees a decent wage (reduces gross profits), expand the business (again reduces gross profits), or pay Uncle Sam. The higher taxes are only paid on profits over that dollar amount, not on all profits.Those percentages only apply to profits over a fairly large amount. In the '30s and '40 it was ~$400,000 iirc. Now move that to today's dollars, and startups have a long way to go before they need to worry about that.So what is the downside of that?
Exactly. This is a major reason I like Bernie. Every large donation the Bernie has ever gotten from a major corporation, as a feeble attempt to "buy" him, gets donated to charity.
Again.. I'm not saying Bernie is a bad guy.. But there will be serious repercussions to disallow off shore stashing of funds..
Also, on companies and getting "strong armed", what say you about Carrier getting a $5.1million tax cut, and within weeks announcing that they are moving ALL production and distribution to Mexico. Putting 7k plus people out of a job.
Carrier will do that regardless..
Strong armed, is when the government wants 30%-50% of your earnings.. Maybe very large corporations, this is ok, but for startups.. that is a major barrier.
Startups as in someone's keycaps business. .no nothign to worry about, but most startups that actually has a shot, are medium sized, and they can get near the million dollar barrier very quickly.. and that is when all their momentum becomes weakened if viable tax loopholes are not exploited..
The big established corporations are not the ones I'm worried about, even though in principle, I believe they should be allowed off shore stashing, but they're going to find a way regardless of the rules..
But it is bad for everyone -in the middle-... where innovation is FASTEST...
I'm not sure tp quite understands how corporate taxes work.
Those percentages only apply to profits over a fairly large amount. In the '30s and '40 it was ~$400,000 iirc. Now move that to today's dollars, and startups have a long way to go before they need to worry about that.So what is the downside of that?
Exactly. This is a major reason I like Bernie. Every large donation the Bernie has ever gotten from a major corporation, as a feeble attempt to "buy" him, gets donated to charity.
Again.. I'm not saying Bernie is a bad guy.. But there will be serious repercussions to disallow off shore stashing of funds..
Also, on companies and getting "strong armed", what say you about Carrier getting a $5.1million tax cut, and within weeks announcing that they are moving ALL production and distribution to Mexico. Putting 7k plus people out of a job.
Carrier will do that regardless..
Strong armed, is when the government wants 30%-50% of your earnings.. Maybe very large corporations, this is ok, but for startups.. that is a major barrier.
Startups as in someone's keycaps business. .no nothign to worry about, but most startups that actually has a shot, are medium sized, and they can get near the million dollar barrier very quickly.. and that is when all their momentum becomes weakened if viable tax loopholes are not exploited..
The big established corporations are not the ones I'm worried about, even though in principle, I believe they should be allowed off shore stashing, but they're going to find a way regardless of the rules..
But it is bad for everyone -in the middle-... where innovation is FASTEST...
Please explain how this is better than paying your workers a living wage, decent benefits, and a good retirement. I pray you can come up with a good reason.
And I mean a good serious answer, not some bull**** TP politician say anything but answer the question type answer.
Please explain how this is better than paying your workers a living wage, decent benefits, and a good retirement. I pray you can come up with a good reason.
And I mean a good serious answer, not some bull**** TP politician say anything but answer the question type answer.
That has very little to do with the off shore tax offset I'm worried about.
But the goal will always be to pay workers as little as possible.
And jobs will naturally become too expensive in our native economy, and move overseas.
There's a very good reason for this..
If we kept all of our jobs in developed countries, our products can't possibly be competitive with Other nations who peg their currency so low.
The fact that we have this minimum wage problem today, has nothing to do with Our American businessmen not WANTING to pay Americans a decent wage.
From the corporate standpoint , they simply can't..
AGAIN, this issue is apart from the Tax issue..
The overseas stash has many functions as I've already mentioned..
Relentlessly shipping American jobs and money offshore with impunity is what "the system" has been all about since Reagan took office.
Until the public successfully identifies who is doing it, and why, and makes up its collective mind to stop it, nothing will change.
If 51% of the American public would wake up, they could immediately see that they have the power to stop it and even reverse it.
the fact that this SHOULD happen.
That is total bull**** and you know it. If this was true, then how can John Deere pay custodians $20 an hour plus benefits, mechanics close to $26 an hour plus benefits. That is just one company. How can they afford to pay union contractors what they charge for my labor. I get billed out at over $100 an hour. If this is truly how you feel, then I feel sorry for anyone you try and do business with. If a company is making that much money and can't afford decent wages and benefits, there are only two reasons that can account for this. ****ty business practices, or corporate greed.
Relentlessly shipping American jobs and money offshore with impunity is what "the system" has been all about since Reagan took office.
Relentlessly shipping American jobs and money offshore with impunity is what "the system" has been all about since Reagan took office.
Sucks that this is all zero-sum so we lose those jobs forever and no one will ever get jobs in new areas. I also hate when I get cheaper goods...
Relentlessly shipping American jobs and money offshore with impunity is what "the system" has been all about since Reagan took office.
Sucks that this is all zero-sum so we lose those jobs forever and no one will ever get jobs in new areas. I also hate when I get cheaper goods...
The possibility of those jobs returning is there, but it's going to be quite distant, most likely past our lifetimes.
Labor cost, even in China is rising rapidly, so the only left exploitable areas are India, south asia, then finally Africa..
The outsourcing will make its rounds until eventually we reach a world equilibrium.
Relentlessly shipping American jobs and money offshore with impunity is what "the system" has been all about since Reagan took office.
Sucks that this is all zero-sum so we lose those jobs forever and no one will ever get jobs in new areas. I also hate when I get cheaper goods...
The possibility of those jobs returning is there, but it's going to be quite distant, most likely past our lifetimes.
Labor cost, even in China is rising rapidly, so the only left exploitable areas are India, south asia, then finally Africa..
The outsourcing will make its rounds until eventually we reach a world equilibrium.
Not the same jobs, new ones most likely. It'll always be cheaper to do low-tech assembly stuff in developing countries. But it'll also be hard, or take a while, to unseat places like the US/Germany/Japan that have a hold of any higher-tech stuff like semiconductor manufacturing etc.
Sucks that this is all zero-sum
Sucks that this is all zero-sum
It is not zero-sum at all.
Relentlessly shipping American jobs and money offshore with impunity is what "the system" has been all about since Reagan took office.
Sucks that this is all zero-sum so we lose those jobs forever and no one will ever get jobs in new areas. I also hate when I get cheaper goods...
That is total bull**** and you know it. If this was true, then how can John Deere pay custodians $20 an hour plus benefits, mechanics close to $26 an hour plus benefits. That is just one company. How can they afford to pay union contractors what they charge for my labor. I get billed out at over $100 an hour. If this is truly how you feel, then I feel sorry for anyone you try and do business with. If a company is making that much money and can't afford decent wages and benefits, there are only two reasons that can account for this. ****ty business practices, or corporate greed.
They don't pay union contractors what's on the paper, my guess, much of that is states funding or some sort of laundering scheme..
Just like Insurance payments is not what's billed on paper. it's perhaps 1/10th
If you're uncertain why some payments don't make sense, odds are, fancy book-keeping.
Sucks that this is all zero-sum
It is not zero-sum at all.
Fortunately for Americans, those of us who shop at Wal-Mart get the cheap dish towels at the expense of 3rd world slave laborers, while the ultra-wealthy fork over no taxes to anyone on the money that they sock away in the secret hidey-holes of the never-never lands.
Maybe when Oklahoma City falls into a sinkhole or Miami disappears under the high tide people will finally start to take notice.
Relentlessly shipping American jobs and money offshore with impunity is what "the system" has been all about since Reagan took office.
Sucks that this is all zero-sum so we lose those jobs forever and no one will ever get jobs in new areas. I also hate when I get cheaper goods...
Personally, with a lot of stuff, I would rather pay 3 times the price (especially hand tools) if it means it is US made and a quality product. I refuse to buy any tools from sears without extenuating circumstances. Even hand tools that stay at home and not for work.
That is total bull**** and you know it. If this was true, then how can John Deere pay custodians $20 an hour plus benefits, mechanics close to $26 an hour plus benefits. That is just one company. How can they afford to pay union contractors what they charge for my labor. I get billed out at over $100 an hour. If this is truly how you feel, then I feel sorry for anyone you try and do business with. If a company is making that much money and can't afford decent wages and benefits, there are only two reasons that can account for this. ****ty business practices, or corporate greed.
They don't pay union contractors what's on the paper, my guess, much of that is states funding or some sort of laundering scheme..
Just like Insurance payments is not what's billed on paper. it's perhaps 1/10th
If you're uncertain why some payments don't make sense, odds are, fancy book-keeping.
I think you are confused on what I actually do and who my contractors work for. I work as a union millwright (http://wwwunionmillwrightcom.blogspot.com/2010/05/what-hell-is-millwright.html), and currently work for Weitz Industiral. Granted Weitz is an international company with both union and non union sides of the company, but they don't mix those sides. For example, they don't bid a job as union, then send the non union side to do the job to get more profits. It just doesn't work that way. 4
Plus, I have only ever worked ONE job that was government money since I started working as a millwright in '07. That one job, was flood recovery from the Flood of 2008 here in the midwest, image from the bridge in the city I was working in at that time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_2008_Midwest_floods#/media/File:Dairy_Queen,_Cedar_Rapids,_June_12_2008.jpg). So yes, when companies get a bill for my $100 per hour, that is what they pay, not the state, not the federal government. I work inside of manufacturing facilities replacing, fixing, and installing machinery for the companies that MAKE products. I do NOT work on bridges, roads, highways, or any other form of infrastructure, so in your infinite wisdom, where the hell does this state money come from. The only possible source is from corporate subsidies, but the companies where I work at, pay their employees enough they don't need these. Look at General Mills. They don't want the union in there so they pay their employees BETTER than local union wages, including benefits. Last I heard, couple 5 years ago, general line production workers make close to $30 an hour on the check, plus excellent benefits. This practice I have no problem with, if a union isn't needed for workers to get good wages, working conditions, and benefits, then no issue. But tell me how they NEED to ship jobs overseas in order to make a profit.
Relentlessly shipping American jobs and money offshore with impunity is what "the system" has been all about since Reagan took office.
Sucks that this is all zero-sum so we lose those jobs forever and no one will ever get jobs in new areas. I also hate when I get cheaper goods...
Personally, with a lot of stuff, I would rather pay 3 times the price (especially hand tools) if it means it is US made and a quality product. I refuse to buy any tools from sears without extenuating circumstances. Even hand tools that stay at home and not for work.
That is total bull**** and you know it. If this was true, then how can John Deere pay custodians $20 an hour plus benefits, mechanics close to $26 an hour plus benefits. That is just one company. How can they afford to pay union contractors what they charge for my labor. I get billed out at over $100 an hour. If this is truly how you feel, then I feel sorry for anyone you try and do business with. If a company is making that much money and can't afford decent wages and benefits, there are only two reasons that can account for this. ****ty business practices, or corporate greed.
They don't pay union contractors what's on the paper, my guess, much of that is states funding or some sort of laundering scheme..
Just like Insurance payments is not what's billed on paper. it's perhaps 1/10th
If you're uncertain why some payments don't make sense, odds are, fancy book-keeping.
I think you are confused on what I actually do and who my contractors work for. I work as a union millwright (http://wwwunionmillwrightcom.blogspot.com/2010/05/what-hell-is-millwright.html), and currently work for Weitz Industiral. Granted Weitz is an international company with both union and non union sides of the company, but they don't mix those sides. For example, they don't bid a job as union, then send the non union side to do the job to get more profits. It just doesn't work that way. 4
Plus, I have only ever worked ONE job that was government money since I started working as a millwright in '07. That one job, was flood recovery from the Flood of 2008 here in the midwest, image from the bridge in the city I was working in at that time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_2008_Midwest_floods#/media/File:Dairy_Queen,_Cedar_Rapids,_June_12_2008.jpg). So yes, when companies get a bill for my $100 per hour, that is what they pay, not the state, not the federal government. I work inside of manufacturing facilities replacing, fixing, and installing machinery for the companies that MAKE products. I do NOT work on bridges, roads, highways, or any other form of infrastructure, so in your infinite wisdom, where the hell does this state money come from. The only possible source is from corporate subsidies, but the companies where I work at, pay their employees enough they don't need these. Look at General Mills. They don't want the union in there so they pay their employees BETTER than local union wages, including benefits. Last I heard, couple 5 years ago, general line production workers make close to $30 an hour on the check, plus excellent benefits. This practice I have no problem with, if a union isn't needed for workers to get good wages, working conditions, and benefits, then no issue. But tell me how they NEED to ship jobs overseas in order to make a profit.
They NEED to ship jobs overseas to make MORE profit.
if you were the capitalist, you would do the exact same thing.
You're not fighting the people here, you're fighting OTHER capitalists. The game of which is already in play.
Your ideas about a fair world would only make sense if nothing was happening right now, and tomorrow we start making the RIGHT choices..
We can't do that any more, the opportunity to do so does not exist.
if YOU DON'T ship jobs overseas, SOME ONE ELSE WILL... and unless Bernie can stop EVERYONE from doing it, None of his good-wishes will come true.. Because the person who ships the job, will out-compete the ones who do not...
So the American loving pay everybody a great wage guy goes under.. you lose your job, then what.
He'll at best create a system that even more greatly benefit large corporations because it'd raise the barriers against smaller businesses without the money to pay for an elite accounting department.
Sorry, look at Craftsman. Since they moved production to China, their sales has PLUMMETED. They lost probably 90% of all union sales. I know unions are getting smaller and smaller these days, but that is still a significant portion of sales to lose. Sears has been hemorrhaging money for a number of years now. Jobs do NOT need to move overseas to be competitive. The only reason to move overseas is corporate greed.
You say that all jobs that can be exported will. What will that leave, education, repair, construction, police, emergency services, what else? That won't work. The country will totally collapse long before that happens.
Relentlessly shipping American jobs and money offshore with impunity is what "the system" has been all about since Reagan took office.
Sucks that this is all zero-sum so we lose those jobs forever and no one will ever get jobs in new areas. I also hate when I get cheaper goods...
Personally, with a lot of stuff, I would rather pay 3 times the price (especially hand tools) if it means it is US made and a quality product. I refuse to buy any tools from sears without extenuating circumstances. Even hand tools that stay at home and not for work.
Sorry, look at Craftsman. Since they moved production to China, their sales has PLUMMETED. They lost probably 90% of all union sales. I know unions are getting smaller and smaller these days, but that is still a significant portion of sales to lose. Sears has been hemorrhaging money for a number of years now. Jobs do NOT need to move overseas to be competitive. The only reason to move overseas is corporate greed.
You say that all jobs that can be exported will. What will that leave, education, repair, construction, police, emergency services, what else? That won't work. The country will totally collapse long before that happens.
Your arguments and rhetoric are nothing but justifications to move overseas.
Sorry, look at Craftsman. Since they moved production to China, their sales has PLUMMETED. They lost probably 90% of all union sales. I know unions are getting smaller and smaller these days, but that is still a significant portion of sales to lose. Sears has been hemorrhaging money for a number of years now. Jobs do NOT need to move overseas to be competitive. The only reason to move overseas is corporate greed.
You say that all jobs that can be exported will. What will that leave, education, repair, construction, police, emergency services, what else? That won't work. The country will totally collapse long before that happens.
Your arguments and rhetoric are nothing but justifications to move overseas.
Craftsman lost sales because of China yes, but not because they -went-to- China..
Hahahahaha.. It's primarily because of how Low Tech their business is to begin with.. Not much they can protect and take a lead on. Any other brand , any country with the right export logistics can replace them..
In the end, everyone wants cheaper bolt cutters.. and someone overseas is willing to supply..
If craftsman didn't produce in China, some other US brand would..
Tons of other US brands produce stuff in China, but that's why my grandfather and my dad always bought Craftsman as their quality was so much better which made the higher cost worth it. ****, my dad still has a bunch of tools that my grandpa bought probably 50-60 years ago that work just fine, wjile the Craftsman stuff made now probably won't make it to 10-20 years because the quality has dropped so much. If I wanted to buy ****ty tools made in China I would go to Harbor Freight Tools and buy them.
If your irony were vinegar, I'd be a pickle now.
Sucks that this is all zero-sum
It is not zero-sum at all.
See, I hate this trend of adding "/s" to sarcastic remarks, so I try to convey the irony as obviously as possible. I guess it just gets lost in text sometimes.
Tons of other US brands produce stuff in China, but that's why my grandfather and my dad always bought Craftsman as their quality was so much better which made the higher cost worth it. ****, my dad still has a bunch of tools that my grandpa bought probably 50-60 years ago that work just fine, wjile the Craftsman stuff made now probably won't make it to 10-20 years because the quality has dropped so much. If I wanted to buy ****ty tools made in China I would go to Harbor Freight Tools and buy them.More
This is not a correct comparison.
The tools at harbor freight are not specced to be industrial.. They're designed as household tools, that most people will only use maybe a few times to fix small problems.
China also produces the -good tools- that are imported for industrial use. But obviously they wouldn't be selling these at harbor freight since that's not the market..
It comes down to Cost, China can make durable or non-durable products depending on what the Customer demands..
The trend is on cost cutting.. and volume production.. They'd rather sell a million cheapo bolt cutters, then 5 good ones..
WHY ? because industrial tools which DO LAST, along with the guys who Buy them, DON"T buy that many..
In the end, the low end market is more profitable..
If you're a company, you're offered a choice.
Sell 1 million $10 bolt cutters to consumers for 10 million dollars.
OR
Sell 5,000 $50 bolt cutters to Professionals for 250 thousand..
Can they do both, SURE, and many of them do, but very generally, NO ONE cutting 6 bolts a year at home is going to need a $50 bolt cutter.. That product simply doesn't sell.
the market is suddenly much larger and more profitable, when it's open to regular consumers.. hence Cheapo tools..
In regards to having things made in the USA, the majority of people anymore (at least the vocal majority) don't want the large plants, mills, mines etc it takes to do that because they view them as being too 'dirty'.
It's amazing when the local news does an article on yet another group of hundreds of people being laid off from somewhere that is closing and all the comments are people saying things like, ' good riddance', 'about time', 'now go find a green job', etc.
In regards to having things made in the USA, the majority of people anymore (at least the vocal majority) don't want the large plants, mills, mines etc it takes to do that because they view them as being too 'dirty'.
It's amazing when the local news does an article on yet another group of hundreds of people being laid off from somewhere that is closing and all the comments are people saying things like, ' good riddance', 'about time', 'now go find a green job', etc.
Really? Still all I ever see is people going full on "DEY TOOK R JERBS."
The economy, and our people must now get better jobs which the foreigners Can't take..
The economy, and our people must now get better jobs which the foreigners Can't take..
I'd love to hear some concrete examples of what exactly those jobs are. :thumb:
The economy, and our people must now get better jobs which the foreigners Can't take..
I'd love to hear some concrete examples of what exactly those jobs are. :thumb:
The economy, and our people must now get better jobs which the foreigners Can't take..
I'd love to hear some concrete examples of what exactly those jobs are. :thumb:
Actuarial..
Financial engineering..
Astrophysicist..
Physicist..
Biochem..
Dentist..
Surgeon..
ANYTHING that involves High level math.. you will be assured a Job.. at the worst case, at the university level..
The economy, and our people must now get better jobs which the foreigners Can't take..
I'd love to hear some concrete examples of what exactly those jobs are. :thumb:
Actuarial..
Financial engineering..
Astrophysicist..
Physicist..
Biochem..
Dentist..
Surgeon..
ANYTHING that involves High level math.. you will be assured a Job.. at the worst case, at the university level..
Those are totally pointless for probably >75% of the population. And from what I've seen many university professors are outsourced ;)
And what is financial engineering? Is that what has been going on for some time now within our government hahaha :p
The economy, and our people must now get better jobs which the foreigners Can't take..
I'd love to hear some concrete examples of what exactly those jobs are. :thumb:
Actuarial..
Financial engineering..
Astrophysicist..
Physicist..
Biochem..
Dentist..
Surgeon..
ANYTHING that involves High level math.. you will be assured a Job.. at the worst case, at the university level..
Those are totally pointless for probably >75% of the population. And from what I've seen many university professors are outsourced ;)
And what is financial engineering? Is that what has been going on for some time now within our government hahaha :p
SIgh.. guys, again think LONG TERM..
it's out of reach for 75% of the Americans today.
But it may be in reach for 50% of those American's Children..
And the Children of those Children will be in reach of those jobs for Certain.
These changes take time.. LIFE TIMES.. This is not Amazon.com where you click buy and something happens.