Post by: Photekq on Sat, 05 March 2016, 21:58:09
Plate poll here (http://goo.gl/forms/Y1B31Mes61)
Background
I wished to apply the lessons I had learned from my TEK-80 custom project. I decided I would design a TKL and a 65% keyboard. Since then, however, I have decided it would be best to focus on one keyboard, and using a HHKB has opened my mind to the 60% layout. I'm absolutely serious about seeing this project through to the end whether it be in the form of a group buy or a readily available kit.
The keyboard and project goals
My primary goal for the project is to provide a fully fledged custom kit that is on par with (and possibly/hopefully beyond) Korean customs in terms of build quality and features. My secondary goal is to have it entirely designed by members of Geekhack and Deskthority, making it stand on its own as a true GH/DT custom keyboard kit. I hope to have a PCB designed by contributing members here, and I'm prepared to pay for this if necessary. A tertiary goal is to have the kit produced in UK/Europe/USA, although I'm not sure how viable this is. We'll see.
I have decided upon an aesthetic for the keyboard, which I made rough CAD files around. Regardless of the form factor chosen this will be the aesthetic, barring the logo which has not been decided upon :
(http://i.imgur.com/MmXc9af.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/P9U6jGf.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/FuVTZYO.png)
Renders by thesiscamper
The purpose of this thread/poll
The purpose of this is for me to be able to gauge interest in the various form factors and also to gauge the importance of certain features. I do not wish to enter a section of the custom market only to find that it's saturated or devoid of interest, so knowing the popularity of the various form factors is important to me at this stage. It would be incredibly helpful if anyone who is interested in purchasing custom keyboards could fill out the poll at the top of this post. For anything not covered in that poll or for any other comments/questions please do post in this thread.
Format of sale
I feel that this field of the poll does deserve an explanation. While nothing other than a traditional group buy had crossed my mind initially, it's now apparent to me that it's perhaps not the best format for selling a custom keyboard kit. Massdrop has expressed their interest in running something like this to me; running something like this would likely lead to lower prices and less work for me. However, I understand that it may also lead to less exclusivity and a disconnect from this forum. Quality would also have to be looked at very seriously. Having a batch of these made and then sold from a store also seems like a viable option to me. I would love to heard your thoughts on this subject.
Thanks so much for reading.
Post by: slickmamba on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:00:32
Post by: swimmingbird on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:01:06
Post by: Firebolt1914 on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:01:32
Post by: tchevass on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:01:40
Post by: slickmamba on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:02:09
What sort of stabilizer cutouts will there be?Only pcb allowed here
Post by: ArnavM on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:02:15
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:02:34
What sort of stabilizer cutouts will there be?Cherry PCB mount only
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:02:43
What sort of stabilizer cutouts will there be?
I'd love the option for PCB mounted so you could use screw in stabilizers. I just hate the plate mounted ones (costar isn't bad though).
What sort of stabilizer cutouts will there be?Cherry PCB mount only
And responded while I was typing with the perfect answer.
Post by: whmeltonjr on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:02:51
Post by: jerue on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:06:02
edit: for reference:
(http://i.imgur.com/gq1Xqhv.jpg)
Looks awesome pho. I say a mx 5000 build
I have seen custom 5k PCBs...but I think designing and releasing the case would be a big issue :( otherwise yes, group 5k :)
Post by: ika on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:09:09
As far as features go, I think full programmability is an absolute necessity, maybe through something like TMK. Winkey/winkeyless support would also be required. RGB backlight and in-switch LED support would be nice. The possibility of doing an acrylic diffuser plate through the middle would be interesting.
form factor - I think it would be easiest to start with a TKL, as that would pull the most numbers. I think there's enough 60% choices out there that this isn't necessary unless you do an HHKB-style case. 65%, 75% (octagon), 90% (lightsaver), and 60/65%+10 (macro section on left side) would be good alternatives but it might be difficult to get the numbers you'll need for it to be affordable.
Post by: BaconEggandCheeseBagel on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:11:01
That's a picture of the redscarf II + model f variant.
(http://ww4.sinaimg.cn/mw690/bed1d077gw1ev00jc3614j20rs0iiaef.jpg)
Would be an awesome layout and style to replicate in this build, but with a significantly higher build quality and manufacturing eye taken to the case design and overall aesthetics.
Excited to see this project come to fruition!
Post by: Firebolt1914 on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:12:06
What sort of stabilizer cutouts will there be?Cherry PCB mount only
No i meant what type of PCB mount cutout, there are different styles. A picture would be helpful.
for example LZ style vs OTD
Post by: FoC_Tow on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:16:28
Not sure if there is much interest in this, but I would personally love to see a 60% form factor, with some changes to whats usually done for 60% cases.
60% cases are usually done as a one piece shell design sticking to 60% standards which limits you to certain design choices, like having the pcb screwd to the case rather then the plate.
I would personally love to see a 60% form factor with a two piece case design, that doesn't follow the common rules of everyday 60% standard.
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:17:50
I would personally love to see a 60% form factor with a two piece case design, that doesn't follow the common rules of everyday 60% standard.
I was messing around with the idea of one like that where you could get a top half with different layouts, HHKB, winkeyless, and so on, without having to use blockers.
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:17:59
I would personally love to see a 60% form factor with a two piece case design, that doesn't follow the common rules of everyday 60% standard.It will be a 3-piece case regardless of form factor. Top piece, plate, bottom piece. Same as is shown in the renders.
Post by: priyadi on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:19:46
So if you want to get a step ahead from the Koreans, you should use flat case. Not only it is more ergonomic, it should also be cheaper as it needs less material. It is also more portable, which can be important especially for 60%s. And if people are really into angled keyboards, then it should be easy to add optional feet.
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:21:37
What I really despise about Korean custom keyboards: almost all of them have very steep inclination. I find steep keyboards are very unergonomic to me, which prevents me to get any Korean custom no matter how nice they are.I'm too big of a fan of angled cases to do this, sorry. I find flat keyboards incredibly uncomfortable, and I find flat cases with feet to be ugly. Buy a Cheat or KMAC1 :p
So if you want to get a step ahead from the Koreans, you should use flat case. Not only it is more ergonomic, it should also be cheaper as it needs less material. It is also more portable, which can be important especially for 60%s. And if people are really into angled keyboards, then it should be easy to add optional feet.
Post by: ika on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:22:53
What I really despise about Korean custom keyboards: almost all of them have very steep inclination. I find steep keyboards are very unergonomic to me, which prevents me to get any Korean custom no matter how nice they are.
So if you want to get a step ahead from the Koreans, you should use flat case. Not only it is more ergonomic, it should also be cheaper as it needs less material. It is also more portable, which can be important especially for 60%s. And if people are really into angled keyboards, then it should be easy to add optional feet.
1) flat case with feet is ugly
2) less material is negligible for the costs of a custom keyboard
3) more ergonomic is HIGHLY debatable...
4) portability really shouldn't be a consideration in a full alu custom board that will cost upwards of $400, easily.
Post by: byker on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:25:51
or something along these lines :-*
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:26:59
Show Image(http://puu.sh/mv2Ye/b8750af145.png)
or something along these lines :-*
FN layer arrow keys work great, why dedicated arrows?
Post by: climbalima on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:27:59
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:28:51
I would like to see a 60% or 65% split boardSplit boards are a no-go for me. I see any split keyboard other than the MX5000 as redundant :p
Post by: byker on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:29:56
Show Image(http://puu.sh/mv2Ye/b8750af145.png)
or something along these lines :-*
FN layer arrow keys work great, why dedicated arrows?
i agree but my thought process was:
- I want an mx board similar to the hhkb so I can easily switch between the two (as out of all my boards I always end up back on the hhkb)
- Dedicated arrows would be nice for certain games/programs that I use, such as Binding of Isaac, although I do agree that the FN layer arrows work great
- Gotta keep it nice and compact in layout :)
- FN would use the short shift key, for keyset compatibility
Post by: CommonCurt on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:37:40
Post by: gadzkun on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:41:05
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:42:39
Post by: ika on Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:51:31
Show Image(http://puu.sh/mv2Ye/b8750af145.png)
or something along these lines :-*
FN layer arrow keys work great, why dedicated arrows?
I use arrow keys with left hand, right hand on mouse quite often. I'm already starting to develop tendonitis in like all my fingers. The less I need to use my pinkies, the better.
Post by: FoC_Tow on Sat, 05 March 2016, 23:05:27
I would personally love to see a 60% form factor with a two piece case design, that doesn't follow the common rules of everyday 60% standard.
I was messing around with the idea of one like that where you could get a top half with different layouts, HHKB, winkeyless, and so on, without having to use blockers.
Same here, thats pretty much what I had in mind.
If you don't follow along 60% standards, it would also be possible to support a more true hhkb layout then most 60% pcbs allow for, like a 1;1.5;6.25;1.5:1 bottom row.\
You could also add extras like hhkb style usb ports on the back or pretty much anything, that would usually be ruled out by the standards.
Show Image(http://puu.sh/mv2Ye/b8750af145.png)
or something along these lines :-*
This reminds me a lot of KHAANNNs Alternative Arrowed 60% (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73575.0).
+1 Would love to see something along those lines, love the layout.
I would personally love to see a 60% form factor with a two piece case design, that doesn't follow the common rules of everyday 60% standard.It will be a 3-piece case regardless of form factor. Top piece, plate, bottom piece. Same as is shown in the renders.
Yeah, I get its pretty much a three piece design case if you count in da plate m8.
I said two piece design for comparison with common 60% case which I guess are considered single piece cases, since the plate isn't truly integrated or part of the case.
Post by: romevi on Sat, 05 March 2016, 23:07:01
Post by: choiboi on Sun, 06 March 2016, 00:19:25
Post by: priyadi on Sun, 06 March 2016, 01:41:14
60% is already standardized enough, and it is not hard for me to get suitable cases with reasonable prices.
I'm too big of a fan of angled cases to do this, sorry. I find flat keyboards incredibly uncomfortable, and I find flat cases with feet to be ugly. Buy a Cheat or KMAC1 :p
Post by: pr0ximity on Sun, 06 March 2016, 02:24:04
Post by: R1N3 on Sun, 06 March 2016, 02:28:29
i'd love for these to be made in the US/EU; no matter the form/layout, i'll be purchasing
Post by: joey on Sun, 06 March 2016, 02:32:50
Post by: CommonCurt on Sun, 06 March 2016, 02:36:50
My second choice would be winkeyless TKL.
Post by: n0rvig on Sun, 06 March 2016, 02:46:27
Post by: whentheclouds on Sun, 06 March 2016, 03:23:16
Post by: Photekq on Sun, 06 March 2016, 08:52:08
For the US/EU part.. I'd like to actually know if the quality is going to be better (over getting it from Asia), otherwise it doesn't seem worth it.To support US/EU industry.
a WKL set is most befitting of an inaugural project imo. gotta maintain the Korean established tradition :PAt least having an option for WKL is necessary. Not because of any Korean tradition, but because of original Cherry sets ;)
Post by: joey on Sun, 06 March 2016, 08:54:24
Let me rephrase: If the quality is going to be as good (if not better), without changing the price drastically.For the US/EU part.. I'd like to actually know if the quality is going to be better (over getting it from Asia), otherwise it doesn't seem worth it.To support US/EU industry.
Post by: redskull on Sun, 06 March 2016, 09:09:33
i mean do something angled, but with something unique material-wise as such the said board.
Post by: T0mb3ry on Sun, 06 March 2016, 09:17:42
Post by: Photekq on Sun, 06 March 2016, 09:39:28
Let me rephrase: If the quality is going to be as good (if not better), without changing the price drastically.I can't speak of quality at this time. It would be entirely dependent upon the shop. Know that quality is the most important criteria for picking a shop though, far above location.
Post by: whentheclouds on Sun, 06 March 2016, 09:47:52
but because of original Cherry sets ;)certainly. that's probably what they had in mind in the first place
by the way, are the color choices dependent on the shop you'll use, or do you have something in mind already?
Post by: jonathanyu on Sun, 06 March 2016, 12:34:16
Post by: billnye on Sun, 06 March 2016, 12:40:50
I'll end up buying whatever it is though.
Post by: azhdar on Sun, 06 March 2016, 12:43:53
Post by: trenzafeeds on Sun, 06 March 2016, 13:31:35
Post by: braidn on Sun, 06 March 2016, 13:45:34
Post by: nguyenkimtam on Sun, 06 March 2016, 16:05:29
Post by: LXXXIX on Sun, 06 March 2016, 18:06:52
I would hope for a truly unique and functional layout. I'd be down. :)
Post by: Patchwrks on Sun, 06 March 2016, 21:31:34
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 06 March 2016, 21:37:39
Also, something I have been wanting to see for a long time, analogue dial controls for backlighting. Want to turn you backlighting brightness, turn a dial. This should also be able to be used for color control for RGBs. But you would need 3 dials, one for each color of the RGB. I know this last one is a long shot, but could provide a step of separation from the KCs. Just my two cents.
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Sun, 06 March 2016, 21:45:48
Post by: radio_killah on Sun, 06 March 2016, 21:49:05
Post by: naasfu on Sun, 06 March 2016, 22:21:28
would mostly be interested in 65%/60% since i already have several TKLs. i love the look of angled cases, but hopefully the case isn't too steep or tall since it would probably kill my wrists.
filled out the poll form. btw, the black text poll link is hidden with the GH orange+white on black theme. i only discovered there was a poll link at the top after reading through the post.
Post by: Karura on Sun, 06 March 2016, 23:55:20
I will be following this. :)
Post by: WNovizar on Mon, 07 March 2016, 00:19:48
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 07 March 2016, 00:57:36
Agree would be done for a tklWhat I really despise about Korean custom keyboards: almost all of them have very steep inclination. I find steep keyboards are very unergonomic to me, which prevents me to get any Korean custom no matter how nice they are.I'm too big of a fan of angled cases to do this, sorry. I find flat keyboards incredibly uncomfortable, and I find flat cases with feet to be ugly. Buy a Cheat or KMAC1 :p
So if you want to get a step ahead from the Koreans, you should use flat case. Not only it is more ergonomic, it should also be cheaper as it needs less material. It is also more portable, which can be important especially for 60%s. And if people are really into angled keyboards, then it should be easy to add optional feet.
Post by: QuickDelat on Mon, 07 March 2016, 02:06:31
only if iso
this
Post by: WinterIsle on Mon, 07 March 2016, 05:18:41
Post by: need on Mon, 07 March 2016, 07:43:54
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 07 March 2016, 07:46:07
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 07 March 2016, 07:54:21
(http://puu.sh/nxZmk/ebc3443683.png)
Post by: FoC_Tow on Mon, 07 March 2016, 09:16:39
Current poll results for form factor :Show Image(http://puu.sh/nxZmk/ebc3443683.png)
Whaaat...
There were loads of ideas for a 60% custom, and now it's going to be another boring tkl?
I'm sad. ;_____;
Post by: phosphoric on Mon, 07 March 2016, 10:26:19
Current poll results for form factor :Show Image(http://puu.sh/nxZmk/ebc3443683.png)
Whaaat...
There were loads of ideas for a 60% custom, and now it's going to be another boring tkl?
I'm sad. ;_____;
i'm with FoC on this one - why go tkl? you're taking up a ton of space and ditching the functionality of a number pad. might as well just go 60% or 65%, because 60% is the perfect layout.
that being said, massdrop would ensure that everybody gets their kits at an appropriate time, but the reduction in exclusivity and my past experiences with massdrop kept me from choosing that option in the poll. the major concern i have with hosting a traditional group buy is the fact that group buys not hosted by a professional company seem to fall through fairly often, especially when the quantity is high (as i assume this kit would be). either way, it'd be pretty cool to see a geekhack/deskthority keyboard kit.
Post by: Patchwrks on Mon, 07 March 2016, 10:54:58
Post by: FoC_Tow on Mon, 07 March 2016, 11:51:56
I think part of the reason why most people end up voting for tkl is that they picture a 60% as the common one piece case design and can't really visualize the potential of what a truly custom 60% could look like.
There is an extrem lack of true 60% customs while the market is pretty over saturated with various custom tkl boards of all kinds.
If we want to make something really innovative and exclusive it should be something along the lines of a 60%/65% layout and not just another custom tkl clone in my mind.
After all there is less then a handful customs along those lines, and it seems to me that boards like this are actually way more rare and hard to come by.
Boards like the illusive Duck Viper/Eagle for example seem to be even more exclusive and thought after then Orion or Octagon, even tho I personally feel like they are just scratching the surface of what a truly custom 60% could be.
In my opinion the chance to make a true custom GeekHack / DeskTheory board is an amazing opportunity to create something truly unique, and show that we have the creativity and vision to create something new and amazing with the powers of so many heads and amazing people on GH combined, rather then just making another tkl.
After all innovation doesn't come from doing the same thing over and over again, and I really just feel like if we want to call something a community created custom, there should be many ideas brought together and combined rather then choosing the most obvious way of just going tkl as usual.
Something truly new would be way more exciting to me, and would also make for a lot more impressive showcase of the potential and creative powers of our communities!
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 07 March 2016, 11:56:58
Post by: asgeirtj on Mon, 07 March 2016, 12:08:51
Sorry If I came of rude in my post, but I would be pretty sad to see this ending up as another custom tkl.
I think part of the reason why most people end up voting for tkl is that they picture a 60% as the common one piece case design and can't really visualize the potential of what a truly custom 60% could look like.
There is an extrem lack of true 60% customs while the market is pretty over saturated with various custom tkl boards of all kinds.
If we want to make something really innovative and exclusive it should be something along the lines of a 60%/65% layout and not just another custom tkl clone in my mind.
After all there is less then a handful customs along those lines, and it seems to me that boards like this are actually way more rare and hard to come by.
Boards like the illusive Duck Viper/Eagle for example seem to be even more exclusive and thought after then Orion or Octagon, even tho I personally feel like they are just scratching the surface of what a truly custom 60% could be.
In my opinion the chance to make a true custom GeekHack / DeskTheory board is an amazing opportunity to create something truly unique, and show that we have the creativity and vision to create something new and amazing with the powers of so many heads and amazing people on GH combined, rather then just making another tkl.
After all innovation doesn't come from doing the same thing over and over again, and I really just feel like if we want to call something a community created custom, there should be many ideas brought together and combined rather then choosing the most obvious way of just going tkl as usual.
Something truly new would be way more exciting to me, and would also make for a lot more impressive showcase of the potential and creative powers of our communities!
If this is logoless or has a cool logo it's not just another tkl. For me there has been no tkl custom available which the last 2 year which is appealing to me, I don't like the tgr logo and the bezels are too big on that board, the orion has led indicators which I don't intend to use. The mira looks good but maybe it won't be realized. And the reason for why tkl is so popular is because it really is the perfect layout. I've tried all the layouts and I've come to the conclusion that you need arrows so you can scratch your junk while using the arrows. Using keyboard shortcuts for everything is a pit you don't want to enter, I use touchcursor to make my life easier when I have my hands on the main row but my hands aren't always on the main row. It is also the layout which has no problem with classic keycap sets. It's also the prettiest layout, the keys are not cramped and it's not huge like a full size (I admit that the viper is actually on par with it in looks though since it's essentially a snapshot of a part of the tkl but with some "skin" of the aluminum showing on the top, the aluminum showing on the top is what makes an aluminum board beautiful). The size difference between a tkl and a 60% is also minimal and really a nonissue. If you need a numpad you can add it. So TKL ftw!
I voted GB over store run in the poll because it seems that it's easier to guarantee yourself the board through the GB (don't know if I'm right though)
Post by: Rafa_n on Mon, 07 March 2016, 12:21:41
Who gives a **** how exclusive it is? If you want to flip an exclusive board, why not just make a one-off yourself and try and sell it. I voted for the group buy option because I really like how it keeps it community-based. But it is true that a lot of GBs have gone south lately. Regardless, exclusivity shouldn't play into your decision making at all.
:thumb: Exclusivity is just anti-consumer most of the time, and just unnecessary in this case.
Post by: FoC_Tow on Mon, 07 March 2016, 12:24:49
In for a TKLSorry If I came of rude in my post, but I would be pretty sad to see this ending up as another custom tkl.
I think part of the reason why most people end up voting for tkl is that they picture a 60% as the common one piece case design and can't really visualize the potential of what a truly custom 60% could look like.
There is an extrem lack of true 60% customs while the market is pretty over saturated with various custom tkl boards of all kinds.
If we want to make something really innovative and exclusive it should be something along the lines of a 60%/65% layout and not just another custom tkl clone in my mind.
After all there is less then a handful customs along those lines, and it seems to me that boards like this are actually way more rare and hard to come by.
Boards like the illusive Duck Viper/Eagle for example seem to be even more exclusive and thought after then Orion or Octagon, even tho I personally feel like they are just scratching the surface of what a truly custom 60% could be.
In my opinion the chance to make a true custom GeekHack / DeskTheory board is an amazing opportunity to create something truly unique, and show that we have the creativity and vision to create something new and amazing with the powers of so many heads and amazing people on GH combined, rather then just making another tkl.
After all innovation doesn't come from doing the same thing over and over again, and I really just feel like if we want to call something a community created custom, there should be many ideas brought together and combined rather then choosing the most obvious way of just going tkl as usual.
Something truly new would be way more exciting to me, and would also make for a lot more impressive showcase of the potential and creative powers of our communities!
If this is logoless or has a cool logo it's not just another tkl. For me there has been no tkl custom available which the last 2 year which is appealing to me, I don't like the tgr logo and the bezels are too big on that board, the orion has led indicators which I don't intend to use. The mira looks good but maybe it won't be realized. And the reason for why tkl is so popular is because it really is the perfect layout. I've tried all the layouts and I've come to the conclusion that you need arrows so you can scratch your junk while using the arrows. Using keyboard shortcuts for everything is a pit you don't want to enter, I use touchcursor to make my life easier when I have my hands on the main row but my hands aren't always on the main row. It is also the layout which has no problem with classic keycap sets. It's also the prettiest layout, the keys are not cramped and it's not huge like a full size. The size difference between a 60% is also minimal and really a nonissue. If you need numpad you can add it. So TKL ftw!
I voted GB over store run in the poll because it seems that it's easier to guarantee yourself the board through the GB (don't know if I'm right though)
Sorry but if this is logoless it's just another tkl without a logo.
If tkl is the appropriate layout for you because you like to scratch your junk while using arrow keys, thats fine but Im pretty sure loads of people would have a different opinion ;)
One does not simply generalize whats the perfect layout for everyone based on personal experience.
My personal prefferecne is pretty much opposite to yours, and the size difference seems rather huge to me.
(even 60 vs 75% makes a huge differnce tbh)
But I don't want to argue about personal preference, as those will greatly differ.
My main point was there are way too many custom tkl boards out there already.
And making the same thing over again with a different logo and calling it a GH custom keyboard kit would not make a very inovative impression of our communities.
I don't really care what form factor it ends up as, but I would really like to see something innovative we as a community can be proud of. :-*
Post by: trenzafeeds on Mon, 07 March 2016, 12:24:53
Post by: naasfu on Mon, 07 March 2016, 15:22:11
one interesting thing to note is that it's not easy to come up with something different that people will love. duck recently revealed a "blackbird" design with a pretty unique mashup of layouts, and at least here, the reaction didn't seem to be very favorable at all. most people (and to be fair, i would love one too) seemed to just want a viper re-release.
ps i'm tempted to submit more votes for 65%/60%. (haha i won't do it.)
Post by: switchnollie on Mon, 07 March 2016, 16:01:49
Don't think I've really seen anything like that.
Post by: FoC_Tow on Mon, 07 March 2016, 16:26:10
i read FoC_Tow's original post above as being for creating something unique rather than asking for a limited members only, haha we have it but you don't type item.
one interesting thing to note is that it's not easy to come up with something different that people will love. duck recently revealed a "blackbird" design with a pretty unique mashup of layouts, and at least here, the reaction didn't seem to be very favorable at all. most people (and to be fair, i would love one too) seemed to just want a viper re-release.
ps i'm tempted to submit more votes for 65%/60%. (haha i won't do it.)
Thx naasfu! =)
I think (or Im hoping at least) that the hole talk about exclusivity wasn't directed at me, since this wasn't my intention at all,
I just wanted to voice my opinion for creating something unique like you've already mentioned.
Thx for pointing out 'blackbird' to me btw as I actually hadn't seen that one until now. Its quite a crazy mashup that looks pretty interesting, but tbh I would also prefer a viper personally. ;)
Its probably very true that its pretty hard to come up with something innovative people will actually like in terms of layout.
But my point wasn't necessarily to create something unique in terms of layout, but rather going with a 60% hhkb style custom for example to do something that hasn't been done that much yet, and maybe throw in some fresh and innovative ideas to make it unique! :thumb:
Post by: LXXXIX on Mon, 07 March 2016, 16:40:26
65% is a no go for me since it's no as accessable to replace keys, and 60% takes away too much. Personally if I had to get a 60% I'd go for a viper layout or something like a WKL bottom with blockers.
Thank you based pho!
Post by: blai5000 on Mon, 07 March 2016, 17:33:03
Hot-swappable switches
RGB backlit logo
Trackball/touchpad
???
In terms of layout I would've preferred FC660m-style, but the Clueboard already has that covered.
Post by: thesiscamper on Mon, 07 March 2016, 19:13:11
Post by: braidn on Mon, 07 March 2016, 19:47:45
I vote we call this keyboard "Jambon"
Couldn't agree with this more.
Post by: mrboovn on Mon, 07 March 2016, 20:05:12
Same opinion.There are too many nice TKLs out there (TGR,Duck,LZ...) while just a fews interested 60% but i haven't seen any new 60% since the Eagle.Current poll results for form factor :Show Image(http://puu.sh/nxZmk/ebc3443683.png)
Whaaat...
There were loads of ideas for a 60% custom, and now it's going to be another boring tkl?
I'm sad. ;_____;
60%,65% or HHKB style would be perfect :D
Post by: limitz on Mon, 07 March 2016, 22:13:13
-As for 60% being the "ideal" layout as espoused by a user here, sorry I disagree. The reason I believe we haven't seen so many 60% customs is that arrow keys are a huge deal to a lot of people. You lose a lot from removing them, and I think the vast majority of ppl are more productive with dedicated arrow keys vs. a programmable function layer. 65% is a more interesting layout, due to the relative paucity of customs in this form factor. Arrow keys are nice, but at the end of the day, it's a bit too similar to 60% for my liking. Aesthetically, there's not too much separating 60/65% keyboards from each other.
-TKL would be my preferred form factor due to aesthetics. People will say "well there's so many custom TKL's already". True, but we haven't had a custom TKL from NA/EU, which is what this project is about (and the Mira as well). I can get behind that, especially if the quality/weight/machining/anodization is on par with what we've come to expect from Asia. Personally, I think it's time NA/EU produces a custom to rival the best that Asia can offer.
---
I guess the keys to the design for me:
1) A four piece design: Bottom, Plate, Top, Weight
2) Good anodization. Olive green on the TGR-Jane CE is beautiful. The pink on the 456GT is incredible. I think it's important to include the basic, black/silver/gunmetal, but also to include a color that isn't seen so much, but is vibrant and beautiful.
3) You can't eat your pudding until you eat your meat. If GH/DT wants to make a custom that can rival Korea... then the debut *must* be a TKL. Produce a TKL on the same level of LZ/OTD, and then move onto more creative layouts. Only then, can the keyboard be seen both in the West, as well as Asia as a serious design, and not just a pretender to the throne.
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 07 March 2016, 22:46:32
Post by: jonathanyu on Tue, 08 March 2016, 01:25:14
Post by: pexon on Tue, 08 March 2016, 03:50:49
I don't think not choosing MD is about wanting more exclusivity, I just simply wouldn't trust them with a project like this. To be honest if Photekq was going to be managing the project, I have complete confidence that it would run smoothly.
100% this
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 08 March 2016, 12:34:24
@FoC_Tow The poll is presenting me facts within the usergroup that has filled out the form. That usergroup does not represent the entire community, and those facts only help dictate my future actions in relation to this project. Just because TKL is polling the best does not mean I'll make a TKL.
Before I put this poll up I had in my mind : 65% > 60% > TKL, as I do agree that TKL is a form factor that has been done a lot. That said, I can see why. It offers maximum functionality without being too large; it is a safe layout for those who haven't ventured to try a smaller one. Also, we must think about compatibility with keycaps. Especially alps ones. 60% isn't so bad, but 65% can be quite problematic even for MX keycaps. TKL on the other hand is incredibly easy for both alps and MX.
You're right when you say the 60% (and even more so the 65%) market is lacking, and I'm incredibly surprised by these poll results. I would have said that the TKL market is saturated too, but evidently it isn't.
One thing I do like to bear in mind is that being unique is not always a good thing. There's a reason why TKL and 60% are hallmarks - they are functional and aesthetically pleasing layouts. I mean, Duck's newly proposed layout is incredibly unique, but I also think it's terrible. While I'd like to offer something unique, I do not think layout is something that needs to be fiddled with too much.
You should also bear in mind the aesthetics of the case. This alone does set it apart from any other TKL. With a proper logo/image it will step further away from the pack.
---
Don't bother arguing about which layout is objectively best. None of them are. It's entirely a matter of opinion. Personally I like 60% and TKL equally. You could bet that if there was one which I preferred I would be doing that without any argument.
---
@Phosphoric I know that this means little coming from the person who proposes to run the GB, but trust that I will see it through to the end. I do not abandon projects. Sometimes I genuinely forget about smaller projects, but an unfinished group buy isn't something that a moral person can forget.
---
@limitz I'm in agreement with you.
---
@Melvang Cerakote is very interesting. I will look into this. Do you know how the cost of cerakote compares to the cost of anodising? Does cerakote change the feeling of the surface to a large degree? I don't want sticky keyboards..
---
@jonathanyu Half plate yes. No plate no.
---
Slight aside from this keyboard.. Does anyone have a good knowledge of CNC mills in terms of market values of machines and what goes into installing and maintaining them? I would love to hear from you. I have about Ł15,000 that could be put towards one but would like to know what I'm getting myself into. I have a decent understanding of CNC milling, but the above is the (vital) knowledge that I'm missing.
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 08 March 2016, 12:44:00
Cerakote was originally developed as a coating for firearms parts. The primary attributes were corrosion protection, abrasion resistance, and reducing friction. I can say without a shred of a doubt that it will not get sticky.
As far as price, I don't have a ton of experience, but I had a local shop do a room temp cure (oven cure is also available) in Robin's egg blue on a mouse pad. This pad was 3 square feet (almost 2,800 square cm) and my cost was $107.
If you want more info, www.cerakoteguncoatings.com is the manufacturers site iirc.
Post by: Bucky on Tue, 08 March 2016, 12:49:03
Would be cool to have a diffuser also, similar to some Yuksti has done.
Post by: FrostyToast on Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:18:58
We have had: the duck mini 1 & 2, eagle, viper, 356mini, kmac happy. That's all I can think of.
In terms of tkl we have: koala, whale, dolphin, unicorn, orion 1 & 2, tx87, Mira, 456gt, corsa, more corsa, corsa, did I mention corsa? Then there is also kmac, kmac, kmac, more kmac, kmac. I probably missed a couple of corsas and kmacs. Then we have the Janes, cheats, LZ, more LZ, even more LZ, a few other LZs and more LZ.... Do I need to extend this list any further?
The only thing that 60% boards have in large quantities would be the aftermarket cases, but frankly, those usually don't come near the quality of a true custom kit.
Who knows? Maybe the demand for even more tkl boards is that overwhelming and we need yet another.
But, in my eyes, rarely have I ever seen a 60%/65% which lives up to the standards of a real custom kit. Hell, I can only think of 2 60% boards which are mounted to the case instead of using standoffs.
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:23:08
I think that 65 and 60% do present a real issue though : alps keycaps. The only really viable way to get a full, matching 60/65% keyset for an alps keyboard including a 1.75u spacebar and regular ansi enter is a set like alpine winter. How can we get around this issue?
Post by: FrostyToast on Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:27:06
I am leaning more and more towards the 60% by the way.
I think that 65 and 60% do present a real issue though : alps keycaps. The only really viable way to get a full, matching 60/65% keyset for an alps keyboard including a 1.75u spacebar and regular ansi enter is a set like arctic winter. How can we get around this issue?
Regular ansi enter and 1.75u shift keys can be found on Apple keyboards quite easily. Though the profile and homing keys would be an issue for many.
The other likely candidate for those caps is the Focus FK series boards which also have both but use thin abs.
Furthermore, this issue will be alleviated entirely once we have aftermarket caps from Matias.
There is also a way to cut the plates such that you can support caps using both MX and ALPS stabs.
Post by: DanielT on Tue, 08 March 2016, 15:19:05
I haven't the slightest clue why people think 60% boards are overdone in the custom market.At last someone who thinks like me :)
We have had: the duck mini 1 & 2, eagle, viper, 356mini, kmac happy. That's all I can think of.
In terms of tkl we have: koala, whale, dolphin, unicorn, orion 1 & 2, tx87, Mira, 456gt, corsa, more corsa, corsa, did I mention corsa? Then there is also kmac, kmac, kmac, more kmac, kmac. I probably missed a couple of corsas and kmacs. Then we have the Janes, cheats, LZ, more LZ, even more LZ, a few other LZs and more LZ.... Do I need to extend this list any further?
The only thing that 60% boards have in large quantities would be the aftermarket cases, but frankly, those usually don't come near the quality of a true custom kit.
Who knows? Maybe the demand for even more tkl boards is that overwhelming and we need yet another.
But, in my eyes, rarely have I ever seen a 60%/65% which lives up to the standards of a real custom kit. Hell, I can only think of 2 60% boards which are mounted to the case instead of using standoffs.
Post by: FoC_Tow on Tue, 08 March 2016, 17:45:35
I haven't the slightest clue why people think 60% boards are overdone in the custom market.
We have had: the duck mini 1 & 2, eagle, viper, 356mini, kmac happy. That's all I can think of.
In terms of tkl we have: koala, whale, dolphin, unicorn, orion 1 & 2, tx87, Mira, 456gt, corsa, more corsa, corsa, did I mention corsa? Then there is also kmac, kmac, kmac, more kmac, kmac. I probably missed a couple of corsas and kmacs. Then we have the Janes, cheats, LZ, more LZ, even more LZ, a few other LZs and more LZ.... Do I need to extend this list any further?
The only thing that 60% boards have in large quantities would be the aftermarket cases, but frankly, those usually don't come near the quality of a true custom kit.
Who knows? Maybe the demand for even more tkl boards is that overwhelming and we need yet another.
But, in my eyes, rarely have I ever seen a 60%/65% which lives up to the standards of a real custom kit. Hell, I can only think of 2 60% boards which are mounted to the case instead of using standoffs.
+1
I think we have a barely scratched the surface of whats possible with a true 60% custom kit.
An even if poll results favor tkl, I think creating something really outstanding like this will create a much bigger impact in the long run.
If this actually ends up happening I would be more then honored to get my hands on one. :thumb:
Post by: BaconEggandCheeseBagel on Tue, 08 March 2016, 18:14:48
The other thing to keep in mind with the 60% is that the money saved in the sheer size of the product (when it comes to machining cases) could either be translated to the purchaser (and make this a more viable custom for more people) or give more capital to spend on nicer materials, etc.
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 08 March 2016, 18:22:35
I do have to echo the sentiment re: 60% v TKL. In the end, while the polls point towards TKL, the community is definitely saturated with TKL projects/build.
The other thing to keep in mind with the 60% is that the money saved in the sheer size of the product (when it comes to machining cases) could either be translated to the purchaser (and make this a more viable custom for more people) or give more capital to spend on nicer materials, etc.
Or more extravagant machining.
Post by: BaconEggandCheeseBagel on Tue, 08 March 2016, 19:16:38
Look there are a few 60% custom kits and a bunch more TKL kits. The common thing amongst all the 60% custom kits is that they aren't particularly intricate in their machining. I mean, duck makes some nice products - but the only unique aspect of those builds tend to be the bottom/acrylic window.
Post by: simonyunhe on Tue, 08 March 2016, 21:34:01
The design mainly for keycaps compatibility, with second bottom option you will only need extra 7u spacebar to finish the board.
I remember I saw a Korean made keyboard use this idea, sorry I can't find the picture.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160309/788bd5bc12db69e22c880e6a1e2151c8.jpg)
Post by: blai5000 on Tue, 08 March 2016, 21:51:27
This is the layout I have in mind. It's similar to a 68 board with extra column, for someone who need extra keys(F rows maybe).
The design mainly for keycaps compatibility, with second bottom option you will only need extra 7u spacebar to finish the board.
I remember I saw a Korean made keyboard use this idea, sorry I can't find the picture.Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160309/788bd5bc12db69e22c880e6a1e2151c8.jpg)
I was thinking something like this, but with only the arrows and the two top-right keys, which gives a little bit of whitespace for aesthetics:
[attachimg=1]
So basically an FC660 style but with a regular-sized right shift.
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 08 March 2016, 21:58:16
This is the layout I have in mind. It's similar to a 68 board with extra column, for someone who need extra keys(F rows maybe).
The design mainly for keycaps compatibility, with second bottom option you will only need extra 7u spacebar to finish the board.
I remember I saw a Korean made keyboard use this idea, sorry I can't find the picture.Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160309/788bd5bc12db69e22c880e6a1e2151c8.jpg)
I was thinking something like this, but with only the arrows and the two top-right keys, which gives a little bit of whitespace for aesthetics:
(Attachment Link)
So basically an FC660 style but with a regular-sized right shift.
The one issue with both of these, is very non standard bottom rows. If this is going to be a large scale group buy, I think this should be a primary concern.
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 08 March 2016, 21:59:58
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Tue, 08 March 2016, 22:02:03
This is the layout I have in mind. It's similar to a 68 board with extra column, for someone who need extra keys(F rows maybe).
The design mainly for keycaps compatibility, with second bottom option you will only need extra 7u spacebar to finish the board.
I remember I saw a Korean made keyboard use this idea, sorry I can't find the picture.Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160309/788bd5bc12db69e22c880e6a1e2151c8.jpg)
I was thinking something like this, but with only the arrows and the two top-right keys, which gives a little bit of whitespace for aesthetics:
(Attachment Link)
So basically an FC660 style but with a regular-sized right shift.
The one issue with both of these, is very non standard bottom rows. If this is going to be a large scale group buy, I think this should be a primary concern.
I agree with this. I would not be interested in those layouts primarily due to keycap compatibility.
Post by: tjweir on Thu, 10 March 2016, 07:20:27
Show Image(http://puu.sh/mv2Ye/b8750af145.png)
or something along these lines :-*
I'd like a layout just like this. Nice one.
Post by: FoC_Tow on Thu, 10 March 2016, 13:14:46
Show Image(http://puu.sh/mv2Ye/b8750af145.png)
or something along these lines :-*
I'd like a layout just like this. Nice one.
+1 Same here, Loving the layout!
Post by: FrostyToast on Thu, 10 March 2016, 13:19:34
Show Image(http://puu.sh/mv2Ye/b8750af145.png)
or something along these lines :-*
I'd like a layout just like this. Nice one.
I personally really like this but I would prefer to see more conservative design for this board; mainly due to cap compatibility.
There is also the issue of lacking alternate layouts. It would be nice to have a PCB which has several different options for the bottom row.
Post by: FoC_Tow on Thu, 10 March 2016, 13:43:01
Show Image(http://puu.sh/mv2Ye/b8750af145.png)
or something along these lines :-*
I'd like a layout just like this. Nice one.
I personally really like this but I would prefer to see more conservative design for this board; mainly due to cap compatibility.
There is also the issue of lacking alternate layouts. It would be nice to have a PCB which has several different options for the bottom row.
A layout like this should also be quite sasy to support as an alternative layout while still supporting a hhkb or standard 60% layout I'm guessing.
If you use 1.25 mods for the hole bottom row, the left becomes totally standard.
(http://i.imgur.com/haRc2uK.png)
Biggest Issue would probably be that it takes an alternative top case, same as it would for wkl.
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 10 March 2016, 15:53:15
For the record, I would like a TKL, with a few colour options (olive green/black would be my choice) ISO compatible plate, nice weight on the underside, uhhhhhh...
That's about it.
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 10 March 2016, 17:19:10
Have you made a google docs form for this? Might be the easiest way to gather all responses.It's in the OP ;)
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 10 March 2016, 17:23:47
Have you made a google docs form for this? Might be the easiest way to gather all responses.It's in the OP ;)
Derp. Didn't see it because it was orange.
Thanks bb
Post by: Chewypost on Sat, 12 March 2016, 11:15:25
Post by: need on Sat, 12 March 2016, 13:40:13
Really digging the HHKB 65% layout that is being shown here. I'm more into the short right shift 65% layout that isn't hhkb, but looks to be the one everyone is interested in.I really dig those 65% too.
For some reason, I never used the right shift while it's taking up so much real estate.
Post by: Chewypost on Sat, 12 March 2016, 13:42:57
Really digging the HHKB 65% layout that is being shown here. I'm more into the short right shift 65% layout that isn't hhkb, but looks to be the one everyone is interested in.I really dig those 65% too.
For some reason, I never used the right shift while it's taking up so much real estate.
The only times I've actually used it is for when I need to snap my windows so that they fit on my screen haha.
Post by: jonathanyu on Sat, 12 March 2016, 13:50:37
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 12 March 2016, 13:52:10
How's this? I prefer the look of 1.5/1 keys.
(http://puu.sh/nE8GV/c3cf3cb48e.png)
what does a 65% keyboard looks like? not sure I have seen one or not beforeIt's 60% with one extra row. One example :
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3845/18601435014_fb1ccd3f77_o.jpg)
Post by: pexon on Sat, 12 March 2016, 13:58:02
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 12 March 2016, 14:22:54
(http://puu.sh/nEamT/b0b5d9c55a.png)
My reasoning :
-Fn key in standard position
-Larger blocker on the right side, as I strongly disliked the appearance of such a small (0.75u) blocker.
-No 1.75u shift at the edge of the row, which I strongly disliked the appearance of.
The only issue is the /? key. This would have to be fn'd to some other keys, or could be made a dedicated key in conjunction with a 1.25u left shift. Since there are dedicated arrows putting it on the function layer shouldn't be an issue.
Thoughts?
Post by: hwood34 on Sat, 12 March 2016, 14:47:48
I did some playing around and I much prefer this layout :Show Image(http://puu.sh/nEamT/b0b5d9c55a.png)
My reasoning :
-Fn key in standard position
-Larger blocker on the right side, as I strongly disliked the appearance of such a small (0.75u) blocker.
-No 1.75u shift at the edge of the row, which I strongly disliked the appearance of.
The only issue is the /? key. This would have to be fn'd to some other keys, or could be made a dedicated key in conjunction with a 1.25u left shift. Since there are dedicated arrows putting it on the function layer shouldn't be an issue.
Thoughts?
Might be odd to do, but in theory you could have a dedicated ?/ key, and map the up and down arrows on the same key (one on a function layer)
Post by: Chewypost on Sat, 12 March 2016, 14:54:08
I did some playing around and I much prefer this layout :Show Image(http://puu.sh/nEamT/b0b5d9c55a.png)
My reasoning :
-Fn key in standard position
-Larger blocker on the right side, as I strongly disliked the appearance of such a small (0.75u) blocker.
-No 1.75u shift at the edge of the row, which I strongly disliked the appearance of.
The only issue is the /? key. This would have to be fn'd to some other keys, or could be made a dedicated key in conjunction with a 1.25u left shift. Since there are dedicated arrows putting it on the function layer shouldn't be an issue.
Thoughts?
What if you found a way to do the FN key similar to the Smart68? That would allow you to bring the /? key back, albeit in a non-standard spot.
Post by: tjweir on Sat, 12 March 2016, 15:06:05
Drawback is that it's asymmetrical.
(http://i.imgur.com/OFa9Ekl.png)
Maybe this is better:
(http://i.imgur.com/VmpxtyF.png)
Post by: FrostyToast on Sat, 12 March 2016, 18:31:45
I did some playing around and I much prefer this layout :Show Image(http://puu.sh/nEamT/b0b5d9c55a.png)
My reasoning :
-Fn key in standard position
-Larger blocker on the right side, as I strongly disliked the appearance of such a small (0.75u) blocker.
-No 1.75u shift at the edge of the row, which I strongly disliked the appearance of.
The only issue is the /? key. This would have to be fn'd to some other keys, or could be made a dedicated key in conjunction with a 1.25u left shift. Since there are dedicated arrows putting it on the function layer shouldn't be an issue.
Thoughts?
This is likely the most viable variant.
The key thing to do in order to make this practical for all users would be to offer variations for the bottom row; especially splitting up the spacebar.
This layout is essentially a relatively traditional hhkb layout with optimized real estate which is precisely what I have always desired.
Post by: byker on Sat, 12 March 2016, 21:02:04
I did some playing around and I much prefer this layout :Show Image(http://puu.sh/nEamT/b0b5d9c55a.png)
My reasoning :
-Fn key in standard position
-Larger blocker on the right side, as I strongly disliked the appearance of such a small (0.75u) blocker.
-No 1.75u shift at the edge of the row, which I strongly disliked the appearance of.
The only issue is the /? key. This would have to be fn'd to some other keys, or could be made a dedicated key in conjunction with a 1.25u left shift. Since there are dedicated arrows putting it on the function layer shouldn't be an issue.
Thoughts?
I much prefer the layout I originally posted, because I never use right shift, and always use /? :p I can respect your design though, but I think it would be a hard choice for me to make because of the /? key missing.
Post by: Weltschmerz on Sun, 13 March 2016, 05:28:35
Post by: FoC_Tow on Sun, 13 March 2016, 10:47:07
Thoughts?
Arrowed HHKB support would be amazing! :thumb:
But to be honest the OG arrowed 60% layout would still be my first choice out of all of them.
og
(http://i.imgur.com/cDxfpNs.png)
In my opinion while not looking as hhkb like, its one of the most appealing layouts in terms of function and looks.
The 1.25 mods make for a more uniform bottom row thats blends in well and creates a nice staggered look with only arrow keys being ortholinear.
Blockers are slightly unsymmetric (which I actually like) making room for more overall whitespace vs 0.75 blockers on both sides.
a
(http://puu.sh/nE8GV/c3cf3cb48e.png)
This one still looks pretty nice, but while adding more whitespace also has a couple of drawback imo.
Having a 1u right alt/cmd makes the right edge of the space bar linear,
which creates an even bigger weird 3x2 non staggered area that kinda sticks out and doesn't blend in as nicely.
Also Im personally not a big fan of even less symmetry in terms of blockers, and by having left and right alt/cmd not being the same key size.
Overall while I can understand the approach of making it more hhkb like, I think it looks more edgy and less smooth and clean to the eye then the og did.
b
(http://puu.sh/nEamT/b0b5d9c55a.png)
This one while looking more pleasing then option a overall, looks almost to forced to be symmetrical / hhkb imo.
And to be honest I almost prefer the looks of slightly less blocker space.
Also with the missing /? and in my case even worst missing alt gr on the right of space, this would be pretty hard to get used to for me personally.
I prefer having FN on capslock vs split shift, and for US Int I desperately need an Alt Gr.
So while overall much more pleasing looking then option a, this would be a lot less practical and hard to adjust to for me.
In addition to loosing crucial keys, I would also be kinda sad about loosing the reversed split R shift.
To me this was kind of a unique feature to this layout, and having shift in between fn and arrows makes it look a bit cramped.
Im honestly super happy to see arrowed 60% being consider at all since I really love the layout and it has been sticking in my mind for quite a while now.
Would be super happy to see a layout like these being implemented as a secondary choice with additional top plate! :)
Post by: tullyvivi on Sun, 13 March 2016, 13:09:34
Post by: FoC_Tow on Sun, 13 March 2016, 22:24:13
As far as I know only gon's pcbs offer this atm and it should be super easy to implement as they are just linked to the regular switch led spots.
Doing this in adition to acrylic plates would allow for plate rather then switch backlighting.
Also, a 60% pcb that supports top mounted smd led, underglow (maybe even rgb if people are into that), and arrowed hhkb layout would be something totally unique itself and could create more interest for people to order standalone pcbs for all kinds of 60% projects.
That is, if it still ends up working with the 60% standard which might be a bonus, but shouldn't be the main goal here imo.
Post by: Elrick on Tue, 15 March 2016, 05:36:43
Also one more vital note here, don't make another light-arse keyboard - make it at least 5 kilos (11 pounds for our american friends) in weight simply because we need it, only wimpy children cry when their keyboards are too heavy to carry 8) .
Post by: BaconEggandCheeseBagel on Tue, 15 March 2016, 08:03:08
Post by: FoC_Tow on Tue, 15 March 2016, 09:23:05
So any verdict/decision yet as to what layout we are going to use so we can get this project moving :D :thumb:
I am leaning more and more towards the 60% by the way.
60% masterrace Hype
If it's a TKL layout, then you will never need to use it in your lifetime.
Fixed it for you <3
JK ;D
Post by: WNovizar on Tue, 15 March 2016, 21:50:17
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 15 March 2016, 21:54:49
So any verdict/decision yet as to what layout we are going to use so we can get this project moving :D :thumb:No, I'm still thinking but getting nowhere. It's basically more popularity & compatibility (TKL) vs more uniqueness. I really don't know which to choose.
Perhaps it would be best to start on a solid foundation - a TKL. I don't plan for this to be the last custom I do anyway, so long as it's a success ;)
Post by: ideus on Tue, 15 March 2016, 22:03:11
So, I know this has technically already been done, but to my knowledge this redscarf layout never made it to final production. I do think it's absolutely awesome and appeases several different keyboard enthusiasts.
That's a picture of the redscarf II + model f variant.Show Image(http://ww4.sinaimg.cn/mw690/bed1d077gw1ev00jc3614j20rs0iiaef.jpg)
Would be an awesome layout and style to replicate in this build, but with a significantly higher build quality and manufacturing eye taken to the case design and overall aesthetics.
Excited to see this project come to fruition!
It would be really cool to get one of these.
Post by: simonyunhe on Tue, 15 March 2016, 22:37:17
The RS Model F is abandoned due to the lack of support when it lunch with RS68/RS78 last year within the Chinese MK community.So, I know this has technically already been done, but to my knowledge this redscarf layout never made it to final production. I do think it's absolutely awesome and appeases several different keyboard enthusiasts.
That's a picture of the redscarf II + model f variant.Show Image(http://ww4.sinaimg.cn/mw690/bed1d077gw1ev00jc3614j20rs0iiaef.jpg)
Would be an awesome layout and style to replicate in this build, but with a significantly higher build quality and manufacturing eye taken to the case design and overall aesthetics.
Excited to see this project come to fruition!
It would be really cool to get one of these.
Post by: daviswalkers on Wed, 16 March 2016, 07:11:16
Post by: BaconEggandCheeseBagel on Wed, 16 March 2016, 10:12:59
In terms of case design for a 60%, I was actually really digging the render for teh SA Dasher set. It is also in line with the aesthetics you posted in the OP.
(http://www.jrcooper.com/images/dancer_keyboard_ansi_tkl_01.jpg)
But maybe with a non-floating top plate or mount the plate in the frame like the duck and otd boards? Like this one https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=39599.0
Post by: Karura on Wed, 16 March 2016, 13:21:31
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 16 March 2016, 20:46:10
Post by: limitz on Wed, 16 March 2016, 21:01:01
So any verdict/decision yet as to what layout we are going to use so we can get this project moving :D :thumb:No, I'm still thinking but getting nowhere. It's basically more popularity & compatibility (TKL) vs more uniqueness. I really don't know which to choose.
Perhaps it would be best to start on a solid foundation - a TKL. I don't plan for this to be the last custom I do anyway, so long as it's a success ;)
This is what I believe as well. As I mentioned in a prior post, Pink Floyd's infinite wisdom has said that "you can't eat your pudding until you eat your meat".
TKL is tried and true, and is important for credibility from the other side of the Pacific ocean - Korea. A true custom TKL to rival the 360c, or LZ-SE 84 would be amazing if it could come from a GH/DT collab. I'm fully aware of the amount of TKL's out there, but again, the whole point of this project is for GH/DT to come up with our *first* TKL.
I never thought this would be your only board, go nuts on the 2nd board in terms of layout. But I think a first board needs to make a statement not just on GH/DT, but also in Asia as well. In that sense, only a TKL would do, as it can directly rival and be compared to OTD or LZ.
---
I've posted this before, but IMO, these are the key factors to compare to OTD/LZ:
1) Good anodization/machining (goes without saying)
2) A weight (even brass would do... IMO, the Koreans will understand. OTD doesn't have a monopoly on a material)
3) No feet. Angle should be machined into the board
4) Full plate + Partial plate option
Post by: BaconEggandCheeseBagel on Wed, 16 March 2016, 21:17:09
Post by: limitz on Wed, 16 March 2016, 21:21:08
And even among the TKL's posted before. Only a handful are in the top echelon. Even Duck's Orion V2 doesn't compare to the top LZ/OTD boards, or even the TGR-Jane.
Post by: riotonthebay on Wed, 16 March 2016, 21:31:48
How about we let photekq make a keyboard he's excited about, TKL or 60% or whatever, instead of pretending that this needs to be some statement of superiority.
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 16 March 2016, 21:54:20
What's all this nonsense about proving something to the Koreans? Proving legitimacy? Rivaling Korea's best?But.....
How about we let photekq make a keyboard he's excited about, TKL or 60% or whatever, instead of pretending that this needs to be some statement of superiority.
photekq wants our opinion :confused:
Post by: riotonthebay on Wed, 16 March 2016, 21:55:56
What's all this nonsense about proving something to the Koreans? Proving legitimacy? Rivaling Korea's best?But.....
How about we let photekq make a keyboard he's excited about, TKL or 60% or whatever, instead of pretending that this needs to be some statement of superiority.
photekq wants our opinion :confused:
And my opinion is that these opinions are crap :D ;)
Post by: limitz on Wed, 16 March 2016, 21:58:41
What's all this nonsense about proving something to the Koreans? Proving legitimacy? Rivaling Korea's best?
How about we let photekq make a keyboard he's excited about, TKL or 60% or whatever, instead of pretending that this needs to be some statement of superiority.
Not a statement of superiority, just a statement that GH/DT can produce a solid, top of the line TKL. I don't see what's wrong with attempting to rival the best (which happen to be Korean). The only keyboard I've seen lately that can match up to OTD/LZ is the TGR-Jane. The vast majority of TKL's produced are nowhere close to that standard.
This keyboard represents both of our communities. Personally, I want it represent the best we can offer, in a form factor that everyone... Asia, EU, and NA can all easily understand and has frame of reference for. He asked our opinion, and this is my opinion. Prove you have the basics down first, then move onto other layouts, just my 2 cents.
Post by: riotonthebay on Wed, 16 March 2016, 22:26:23
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 16 March 2016, 22:43:43
Post by: loud_asian on Wed, 16 March 2016, 23:22:25
TKL > 60% > 65% IMO
Post by: Chewypost on Thu, 17 March 2016, 00:04:14
I'd be interested in a TKL as well, that and 100% are the sizes I don't have yet.
TKL > 60% > 65% IMO
I can understand TKL > 60%, but 60 >65? It's not like 65 is that much longer, its only 1 unit longer than a 60.
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 17 March 2016, 10:21:41
Also one more vital note here, don't make another light-arse keyboard - make it at least 5 kilos (11 pounds for our american friends) in weight simply because we need it, only wimpy children cry when their keyboards are too heavy to carry 8) .Lol.. I guess you want one made entirely out of brass or stainless then?
I don't think I'll be aiming for 5kg.. :))
Post by: ideus on Thu, 17 March 2016, 10:54:16
Show Image(http://puu.sh/mv2Ye/b8750af145.png)
or something along these lines :-*
I'd like a layout just like this. Nice one.
I personally really like this but I would prefer to see more conservative design for this board; mainly due to cap compatibility.
There is also the issue of lacking alternate layouts. It would be nice to have a PCB which has several different options for the bottom row.
A layout like this should also be quite sasy to support as an alternative layout while still supporting a hhkb or standard 60% layout I'm guessing.
If you use 1.25 mods for the hole bottom row, the left becomes totally standard.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/haRc2uK.png)
Biggest Issue would probably be that it takes an alternative top case, same as it would for wkl.
This layout has arrow keys in a sixty with few compromises and takes standard size keycaps, the few compromises are more than tolerable.
Post by: tjweir on Thu, 17 March 2016, 11:59:15
[attachimg=1]
Post by: evangs on Thu, 17 March 2016, 12:29:30
Better balance, bottom row may be a bit too much :)
(Attachment Link)
split spacebar for the win. the fact that 6+ unit spacebars still exist is a travesty
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 17 March 2016, 12:39:24
---
I will likely be continuing with the TKL form factor. I believe it will act as a good foundation for future group buys due to the popularity of the layout, and it will allow some time for more 60/65%-supporting alps keysets to become available.
Post by: Chewypost on Thu, 17 March 2016, 12:40:28
New form regarding plate types. Please fill out! http://goo.gl/forms/Y1B31Mes61
---
I will likely be continuing with the TKL form factor. I believe it will act as a good foundation for future group buys due to the popularity of the layout, and it will allow some time for more 60/65%-supporting alps keysets to become available.
What's the difference between half and full plate?
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 17 March 2016, 12:42:25
What's the difference between half and full plate?A half plate is where there is a large cutout around the alpha cluster. It allows for the keyboard to remain plate mounted, while the alphas have a feeling more similar to a PCB mounted keyboard. Some people prefer it for certain switches.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/eddie84/OCN/Mech%20keyboard%20club/The%20Cheat/DSC08002.jpg~original)
Post by: ideus on Thu, 17 March 2016, 12:58:35
Better balance, bottom row may be a bit too much :)
(Attachment Link)
I feel more inclined to minimalism; therefore, it is always hard to understand the insistence to split the space bar, what else can be done with it, that is not already solved with other keys.
Post by: Patchwrks on Thu, 17 March 2016, 13:12:48
New form regarding plate types. Please fill out! http://goo.gl/forms/Y1B31Mes61
---
I will likely be continuing with the TKL form factor. I believe it will act as a good foundation for future group buys due to the popularity of the layout, and it will allow some time for more 60/65%-supporting alps keysets to become available.
Awesome news. Full plates all the way! Titanium would be awesome but I have to imagine the switches would feel odd being on something that sturdy
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 17 March 2016, 13:14:46
Awesome news. Full plates all the way! Titanium would be awesome but I have to imagine the switches would feel odd being on something that sturdyFWIW I would love to offer all the types I mentioned in the form, but I'm not yet sure if that would be viable. I don't plan to offer polycarbonate because I've had no luck finding a good place to cut it, while I can get alu/ss/ti all cut by the same people.
Post by: limitz on Thu, 17 March 2016, 17:53:53
Awesome news. Full plates all the way! Titanium would be awesome but I have to imagine the switches would feel odd being on something that sturdy
If tactile switches are for alu, and linear are for SS. I would say Ti works perfect for clicky switches. I have a tried a lubed and stickered MX White w/ a 60g Korean spring on a 1.5mm thick Ti plate, and it feels heavenly.
It gives the clicky switch a nice "snap", and reduces ping substantially.
Post by: joey on Thu, 17 March 2016, 17:57:02
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 17 March 2016, 18:03:41
Photekq: just to confirm " (Substantially more expensive. Likely $100-150)" means $100-150 for the plate.. or $100-150 *more* than the other plates?$100-150 for the plate, although I'm not 100% sure yet. It might be up to $200. Titanium is a very expensive material and getting it cut is really expensive too.
Post by: joey on Thu, 17 March 2016, 18:06:05
Ok.Photekq: just to confirm " (Substantially more expensive. Likely $100-150)" means $100-150 for the plate.. or $100-150 *more* than the other plates?$100-150 for the plate, although I'm not 100% sure yet. It might be up to $200. Titanium is a very expensive material and getting it cut is really expensive too.
I pretty much filled out all the MX full/half plate options. At this point I don't know which one I'd really want.
Will the plates have the switch top cutouts?
Post by: need on Thu, 17 March 2016, 18:54:12
Post by: FoC_Tow on Fri, 18 March 2016, 05:34:06
New form regarding plate types. Please fill out! http://goo.gl/forms/Y1B31Mes61
---
I will likely be continuing with the TKL form factor. I believe it will act as a good foundation for future group buys due to the popularity of the layout, and it will allow some time for more 60/65%-supporting alps keysets to become available.
You should definitely do whatever seems to be the right choice to you!
I respect the decision to go tkl as the first custom to keep things simple as a good starting point.
That being said, I'm really hoping for a true 60% to come rather sooner then later, and think we already had quite an interesting pool of ideas going on for that.
So I will probably wait for a 60% to happen as well personally.
Best of luck for your project!
Hope it's going to be a huge success. <3
Post by: ArnavM on Sat, 19 March 2016, 21:26:40
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 19 March 2016, 21:30:09
aight phontark, at this point I'll buy it no matter what you do (especially a cool looking TKL :p)I'm going by Potatokek now. Please keep up.
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 19 March 2016, 21:33:06
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sat, 19 March 2016, 21:46:50
If you let MD handle the logistics, even for just the US, that would make a heap of sense IMO. You could still probably find your own shop to do the work and keep a keen eye on quality control as well I would assume. With the current state of GB's I'd personally feel a lot better with something like that. I've just been burned way too much lately to really risk $$$ in another large buy atm, and that is by no means any personal reflection on you at all :thumb:
If you let MD have it completely made on their own, I feel like they'd probably use the same shop they use in China (assumption?) as some of their past stuff, which probably isn't ideal for a board of this caliber. Still, i see no reason why they cant use a place you are working with to produce them, set the price accordingly, and go from there handling all the fulfillment and customer service related things.
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 19 March 2016, 22:08:32
If you let MD handle the logistics, even for just the US, that would make a heap of sense IMO. You could still probably find your own shop to do the work and keep a keen eye on quality control as well I would assume. With the current state of GB's I'd personally feel a lot better with something like that. I've just been burned way too much lately to really risk $$$ in another large buy atm, and that is by no means any personal reflection on you at all :thumb:The main advantage of using MD is their connections for manufacture in the far east and the prices that come along with it. I would not choose to go with MD in order to give buyer security, as this is something I can provide myself: I would ask that if I do not deliver goods in under 180 days that people chargeback.
If you let MD have it completely made on their own, I feel like they'd probably use the same shop they use in China (assumption?) as some of their past stuff, which probably isn't ideal for a board of this caliber. Still, i see no reason why they cant use a place you are working with to produce them, set the price accordingly, and go from there handling all the fulfillment and customer service related things.
If I were to go with a shop of my choice, then the GB would be run by me alone.
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sat, 19 March 2016, 22:29:35
If you let MD handle the logistics, even for just the US, that would make a heap of sense IMO. You could still probably find your own shop to do the work and keep a keen eye on quality control as well I would assume. With the current state of GB's I'd personally feel a lot better with something like that. I've just been burned way too much lately to really risk $$$ in another large buy atm, and that is by no means any personal reflection on you at all :thumb:The main advantage of using MD is their connections for manufacture in the far east and the prices that come along with it. I would not choose to go with MD in order to give buyer security, as this is something I can provide myself: I would ask that if I do not deliver goods in under 180 days that people chargeback.
If you let MD have it completely made on their own, I feel like they'd probably use the same shop they use in China (assumption?) as some of their past stuff, which probably isn't ideal for a board of this caliber. Still, i see no reason why they cant use a place you are working with to produce them, set the price accordingly, and go from there handling all the fulfillment and customer service related things.
If I were to go with a shop of my choice, then the GB would be run by me alone.
So with my experience with their prototypes/boards/etc the milling seems to be pretty on spot. The one thing you should probably double check/look out for is their anodizing. On boards like the HHKB Metal Case the anodizing was a really nice color, but chipped off relatively easily, and thus tarnished the look of the board. But they may have other options, just something to ask about if you do go that way :thumb:
Post by: ccarlitos2 on Sat, 19 March 2016, 22:52:39
Post by: mrboovn on Sat, 19 March 2016, 22:57:16
Post by: yuktsi on Sun, 20 March 2016, 13:19:26
Post by: Vittra on Sun, 20 March 2016, 13:27:11
Post by: daviswalkers on Mon, 21 March 2016, 13:17:23
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 21 March 2016, 18:20:45
Layouts.
Standard layout :
(http://puu.sh/nP5PL/7c85348f1c.png)
Variations :
(http://puu.sh/nP94U/18a3c65c3a.png)
Any thoughts/desired additions?
Post by: azhdar on Mon, 21 March 2016, 18:22:50
Moving forward now that form factor has been established :
Layouts.
Standard layout :Show Image(http://puu.sh/nP5PL/7c85348f1c.png)
Variations :Show Image(http://puu.sh/nP94U/18a3c65c3a.png)
What about winkeyless with blockers?
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 21 March 2016, 18:23:31
What about winkeyless with blockers?This is just for the PCB. Winkeyless with blockers would just require a separate top piece, which would be available.
Post by: joey on Mon, 21 March 2016, 18:26:37
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 21 March 2016, 18:27:53
Are the plates going to be universal?For MX yes, but not for alps, as alps switches depend entirely on the plate for mounting.
Post by: toidbb on Mon, 21 March 2016, 18:29:07
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 21 March 2016, 18:41:35
Post by: ccarlitos2 on Mon, 21 March 2016, 18:51:49
Post by: joey on Mon, 21 March 2016, 18:55:55
Post by: daviswalkers on Tue, 22 March 2016, 07:38:08
Post by: chilldude_22 on Tue, 22 March 2016, 14:31:54
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 28 March 2016, 04:06:52
Post by: MOZ on Mon, 28 March 2016, 04:22:08
Moving forward now that form factor has been established :
Layouts.
Standard layout :Show Image(http://puu.sh/nP5PL/7c85348f1c.png)
Variations :Show Image(http://puu.sh/nP94U/18a3c65c3a.png)
Any thoughts/desired additions?
Is there a standard switch and stabs position for the big ass enter? I've seen at least a few different styles:
1. ANSI enter switch mount and stab mount, with a very short (~1U) vertical stab on the ANSI "\|"
2. ISO enter vertical switch mount and stab mount and a switch mount on the ISO "~#". So basically the same footprint as the standard ISO.
3. Tai Hao - ANSI enter switch mount and stab mount, with a weird thing on the ANSI "\|" part.
Post by: tjweir on Mon, 28 March 2016, 12:05:26
Moving forward now that form factor has been established :
Layouts.
Standard layout :Show Image(http://puu.sh/nP5PL/7c85348f1c.png)
Variations :Show Image(http://puu.sh/nP94U/18a3c65c3a.png)
Any thoughts/desired additions?
Split spacebar would be my only request.
Post by: fknraiden on Mon, 28 March 2016, 12:44:06
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Mon, 28 March 2016, 17:57:21
I'd like to see a 75% bundled along with a numpad.
This is a pretty nice idea. Have a child deal for a matching numpad!
Post by: daviswalkers on Tue, 29 March 2016, 07:30:02
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/7faAcDTwMrE/maxresdefault.jpg)
not something that would look like this
(https://dangwang.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/img_0920.jpg)
Or am I misunderstanding?
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 29 March 2016, 07:38:10
and where can I send my money photekq?
Post by: whentheclouds on Tue, 29 March 2016, 08:42:08
Post by: whentheclouds on Tue, 29 March 2016, 08:43:49
Post by: daviswalkers on Tue, 29 March 2016, 11:28:26
guys, never mind the confusing terminology. 'with blockers' ALWAYS refer to built in blockers. first, because if it doesn't come with blockers, it's just a regular winkey version where you put in your own aluminum blocker (which you purchase yourself, hence why it isn't part of the kit). second, because anyone with a modicum of keyboard design knowledge in 2016 understands that built in blockers are a necessity for any kustom board.Yeah I figured as much but was just trying to clarify however after reading this again:
What about winkeyless with blockers?This is just for the PCB. Winkeyless with blockers would just require a separate top piece, which would be available.
"a separate top piece" reads that they will be built in so I believe my question was answered.
Post by: asgeirtj on Tue, 29 March 2016, 14:07:28
Post by: StormyMonday on Tue, 29 March 2016, 19:47:30
I may be getting slightly ahead of things, but do you envision TKM support?
Keep up the good work, I'd REALLY like to see this happen. :thumb:
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 30 March 2016, 21:53:30
Is there a standard switch and stabs position for the big ass enter? I've seen at least a few different styles:This is something I've been thinking about in the past few days. I wanted to add big ass support so that it would be easier to source Alps keycaps, but there are few factors I hadn't thought about :
1. ANSI enter switch mount and stab mount, with a very short (~1U) vertical stab on the ANSI "\|"
2. ISO enter vertical switch mount and stab mount and a switch mount on the ISO "~#". So basically the same footprint as the standard ISO.
3. Tai Hao - ANSI enter switch mount and stab mount, with a weird thing on the ANSI "\|" part.
- As you said.. There are many variants each requiring different stabilisers. This will result in there needing to be multiple plates for full support. Add this to the fact that alps already requires a separate plate for each stabiliser system/layout and we will have quite a lot of different plates, which could cause some serious issues when it comes to getting them made for a good price.
- Surely if someone is going to pay $450 for a custom keyboard kit they will be willing to spend some time/money to find a proper ANSI/ISO set
Because of these factors I'm wondering if it is a good idea to have big ass support after all.
Split spacebar would be my only request.Good idea.
---
Regarding blockers:
Yes, of course, there will be a top piece with fixed blockers. I wouldn't dare use those ugly inserts..
Post by: whentheclouds on Thu, 31 March 2016, 01:23:27
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 31 March 2016, 07:30:26
hey Photek, do you happen to know whether GMK has a bigass enter mold?That's a good question. I have no idea, I'm afraid. I never thought to ask. I would imagine that they do though.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 31 March 2016, 07:42:06
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 31 March 2016, 07:48:22
hey Photek, do you happen to know whether GMK has a bigass enter mold?and why do you want to use a bigass enter on cherry? I though that photekq is going to use a bigass enter for helping people that wants to use alps and can't find an ANSI caps
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 31 March 2016, 07:58:03
hey Photek, do you happen to know whether GMK has a bigass enter mold?and why do you want to use a bigass enter on cherry? I though that photekq is going to use a bigass enter for helping people that wants to use alps and can't find an ANSI caps
Because, he can.
Post by: romevi on Thu, 31 March 2016, 09:27:29
hey Photek, do you happen to know whether GMK has a bigass enter mold?and why do you want to use a bigass enter on cherry? I though that photekq is going to use a bigass enter for helping people that wants to use alps and can't find an ANSI caps
Bigass Enter 4lyfe.
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 31 March 2016, 09:34:02
Besides, it's not as if 2100HDUs are readily available..
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 31 March 2016, 10:26:32
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 31 March 2016, 10:30:07
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 04 April 2016, 10:24:07
Cherry bigass is not something I'm interested in encouraging.. :))
Besides, it's not as if 2100HDUs are readily available..
yeah supporting bigass enter would just be.... :confused:
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 04 April 2016, 10:45:45
Awesome that you found a local place.Turns out I didn't quite realise just how big their shop is. Just got off the phone with them and they have a MOQ of around 1000, even for large and complex CNC parts.. :-\
Post by: evangs on Mon, 04 April 2016, 10:47:27
What kinda of pricing came with that moq?!?!Awesome that you found a local place.Turns out I didn't quite realise just how big their shop is. Just got off the phone with them and they have a MOQ of around 1000, even for large and complex CNC parts.. :-\
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 04 April 2016, 10:52:40
What kinda of pricing came with that moq?!?!I didn't ask. They were not very friendly after discovering that I was enquiring about an order of around 100 units each consisting of 3 CNC parts.
It doesn't matter anyway. It would have been great to have been able to work with a local firm, but it's not necessary.
Post by: evangs on Mon, 04 April 2016, 10:54:45
Got ya. Yeah some shops get kinda snippy like that, like you wasted so much of their time. Well on to the next shop with hopefully better news. Keep up the good work!What kinda of pricing came with that moq?!?!I didn't ask. They were not very friendly after discovering that I was enquiring about an order of around 100 units each consisting of 3 CNC parts.
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 05 April 2016, 17:25:25
What kinda of pricing came with that moq?!?!I didn't ask. They were not very friendly after discovering that I was enquiring about an order of around 100 units each consisting of 3 CNC parts.
It doesn't matter anyway. It would have been great to have been able to work with a local firm, but it's not necessary.
Look for smaller shops, they seem more inclined to smaller runs from my experience.
Post by: vivalarevolución on Thu, 07 April 2016, 23:09:50
What kinda of pricing came with that moq?!?!I didn't ask. They were not very friendly after discovering that I was enquiring about an order of around 100 units each consisting of 3 CNC parts.
It doesn't matter anyway. It would have been great to have been able to work with a local firm, but it's not necessary.
Look for smaller shops, they seem more inclined to smaller runs from my experience.
Yea, I think one of the keys is working with shops that are willing to work with smaller run custom projects, rather than the preference for larger industrial/commercial customers. It helps if some of the some the shop staff are hobbyists themselves.
Just remember the Pareto Principle in business, that 80% of business might come from 20% of customers. Unfortunately, we usually are part of the other 80% of customers for these machine shops and metal fabricators.
Post by: derzemel on Fri, 08 April 2016, 14:19:14
Just remember the Pareto Principle in business, that 80% of business might come from 20% of customers. Unfortunately, we usually are part of the other 80% of customers for these machine shops and metal fabricators.
God dammit... I had nightmares in university with the Pareto Distribution, Pareto Principle, Pareto charts and Pareto Analysis... you had to remind me :-\
Post by: ChQuNg on Sun, 10 April 2016, 01:17:45
Post by: StormyMonday on Sun, 10 April 2016, 02:11:42
There are many tkl, I would be in for a format like the kmac mini.
Perhaps, but there are precious few TKLs that are fully programmable and have Alps support.
Based on Matt3o's last 65% project, it appears that his new effort may share some similarities with the kmac mini:
https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/prototyping-the-next-thing-t13016.html
Post by: ChQuNg on Sun, 10 April 2016, 08:43:20
https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/prototyping-the-next-thing-t13016.html
Neat, but I like the full aluminum case design of this project. I understand the need for the alps support and the programmable part of a tkl. Was hoping for something that's harder to get.
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 28 May 2016, 08:32:59
Post by: limitz on Sat, 28 May 2016, 16:40:28
There are many tkl, I would be in for a format like the kmac mini.
AMJ Mini is one of these. I'm actually thinking of selling mine. It's a full alu custom that's in the kmac mini format.
Post by: trenzafeeds on Sat, 28 May 2016, 17:36:10
There are many tkl, I would be in for a format like the kmac mini.
AMJ Mini is one of these. I'm actually thinking of selling mine. It's a full alu custom that's in the kmac mini format.
****ing sweet little board tbh
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 04 June 2016, 11:03:53
is this still goin to be a reality?Yeah, after my exams are over (15th June) I'll start concentrating on it again.
Post by: Auxo on Sun, 05 June 2016, 19:30:16
Post by: apaskal on Fri, 17 June 2016, 10:17:21
65% HHKB pleaseeee
edit: for reference:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/gq1Xqhv.jpg)
Nice layout! Will be perfect with short spacebar option :)
Post by: apaskal on Fri, 17 June 2016, 10:50:13
[attachimg=1]
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 19 January 2017, 16:00:48
Post by: xondat on Thu, 19 January 2017, 16:04:06
LET THIS THREAD RISE FROM THE DEAD AND RE-AWAKEN THE IMAGINATIONS OF ALL THOSE WHO LOST THEIR WAY LAST SUMMERHe has exams :(
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 19 January 2017, 16:17:50
LET THIS THREAD RISE FROM THE DEAD AND RE-AWAKEN THE IMAGINATIONS OF ALL THOSE WHO LOST THEIR WAY LAST SUMMERHe has exams :(
Damn, those are some rough exams. My longest ever in grad school was 3 hours. I can't imagine how rough those 7 month exams are. Hopefully they get a bathroom break.
Post by: Tom_Kazansky on Fri, 20 January 2017, 00:06:42
my upcoming build.
[attachimg=1]
PCB is JC65 (from jchan)
EDIT: I have graduated from "dedicated arrow keys"
EDIT 2: I'm finding a way to put a simple mouse maneuver in there, don't know if it is even possible. :-X
LET THIS THREAD RISE FROM THE DEAD AND RE-AWAKEN THE IMAGINATIONS OF ALL THOSE WHO LOST THEIR WAY LAST SUMMERHe has exams :(
Damn, those are some rough exams. My longest ever in grad school was 3 hours. I can't imagine how rough those 7 month exams are. Hopefully they get a bathroom break.
:))
(there is no "harder" laugh smileys)
Post by: Prelim on Tue, 01 August 2017, 11:36:54
one year has passed, will this going to happen?
Post by: Puddsy on Tue, 01 August 2017, 13:04:56
Post by: get_weird on Tue, 01 August 2017, 16:40:59
Post by: CommonCurt on Tue, 01 August 2017, 17:15:27
Hope it's still going to happen one day.
Post by: poolside on Tue, 01 August 2017, 18:04:12
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 01 May 2019, 20:29:55
I didn't show the internals of this, but it was top mount with rubber on the top/bottom of the plate rim. I was always curious to see how rubber/other damping materials would affect typing feel in a custom and I seem to remember me and riot bouncing ideas off one another before anything similar had been done (his ideas were a lot more sensible than mine iirc).
Slowly coming back to activity over the past month or so, being met with the insane number of new customs and the rise of different variations of the "gasket" mount made me realise that this simple mount probably needed a refresh. I've tried to not look too deeply into these "gasket" mounts since I'd like to maintain the blank slate that my hiatus gave me.
Something I always found while trying new keyboards and different MX switches is that different mounting methods suit different switches. Of course, this is nothing new. Everyone knows that boards like the 356L and 356N were designed with specific switches in mind. However, more importantly, I recognise this is going to vary between each person; it's entirely subjective. I've been wondering why there's no custom that offers multiple options for mounting beyond changing plate material/design. The only exceptions that jump to mind would the Koala and the KMAC series, but I don't consider standard plate mount + PCB standoff mount to be enough variation.
Alright, enough bull****. I'm working on a HHKB layout board with extensive mounting options (coming close to double digits so far I think? and that's not including different plate materials) varying from my own versions of old/existing mounting methods to completely new mounting methods. I hope that this will give people the opportunity to truly tailor their typing experience for themselves from the ground up without having to buy a new keyboard for each new mount. After all, isn't that what a custom keyboard should allow you to do, rather than restrict you? And no, putting multiple mounts within one keyboard doesn't compromise any of them. I've made sure of that.
Internals are coming close. Aesthetics TBD. Name/logo TBD. I want a TKL one too. I'm busy for the next few weeks so there won't be much progress, but expect to see more soon. I finish university in a few months; prototyping will start after that.
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 01 May 2019, 20:43:10
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 01 May 2019, 20:43:44
lol, i was thinking this looked familiar. oops it's been a while.2long :(
Post by: ideus on Wed, 01 May 2019, 21:24:14
Show Image(http://puu.sh/mv2Ye/b8750af145.png)
or something along these lines :-*
Dedicated arrows are rarely used when you have access to them on the home row.
Post by: tex_live_utility on Wed, 01 May 2019, 23:13:08
I never forgot about this... I just had to go for a while.
I didn't show the internals of this, but it was top mount with rubber on the top/bottom of the plate rim. I was always curious to see how rubber/other damping materials would affect typing feel in a custom and I seem to remember me and riot bouncing ideas off one another before anything similar had been done (his ideas were a lot more sensible than mine iirc).
Slowly coming back to activity over the past month or so, being met with the insane number of new customs and the rise of different variations of the "gasket" mount made me realise that this simple mount probably needed a refresh. I've tried to not look too deeply into these "gasket" mounts since I'd like to maintain the blank slate that my hiatus gave me.
Something I always found while trying new keyboards and different MX switches is that different mounting methods suit different switches. Of course, this is nothing new. Everyone knows that boards like the 356L and 356N were designed with specific switches in mind. However, more importantly, I recognise this is going to vary between each person; it's entirely subjective. I've been wondering why there's no custom that offers multiple options for mounting beyond changing plate material/design. The only exceptions that jump to mind would the Koala and the KMAC series, but I don't consider standard plate mount + PCB standoff mount to be enough variation.
Alright, enough bull****. I'm working on a HHKB layout board with extensive mounting options (coming close to double digits so far I think? and that's not including different plate materials) varying from my own versions of old/existing mounting methods to completely new mounting methods. I hope that this will give people the opportunity to truly tailor their typing experience for themselves from the ground up without having to buy a new keyboard for each new mount. After all, isn't that what a custom keyboard should allow you to do, rather than restrict you? And no, putting multiple mounts within one keyboard doesn't compromise any of them. I've made sure of that.
Internals are coming close. Aesthetics TBD. Name/logo TBD. I want a TKL one too. I'm busy for the next few weeks so there won't be much progress, but expect to see more soon. I finish university in a few months; prototyping will start after that.
Exciting! I wasn't around at the time, so looking forward to seeing what you come up with now.
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 02 May 2019, 01:10:50
Show Image(http://puu.sh/mv2Ye/b8750af145.png)
or something along these lines :-*
Dedicated arrows are rarely used when you have access to them on the home row.
that post is from 2016
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 02 May 2019, 01:12:43
that post is from ideus :blank:Dedicated arrows are rarely used when you have access to them on the home row.that post is from 2016
Nothing really changed around here, did it?
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 02 May 2019, 01:47:30
that post is from ideus :blank:Dedicated arrows are rarely used when you have access to them on the home row.that post is from 2016
Nothing really changed around here, did it?
only the volume of my ****posting
Post by: CommonCurt on Thu, 02 May 2019, 02:22:24
I never forgot about this... I just had to go for a while.
I didn't show the internals of this, but it was top mount with rubber on the top/bottom of the plate rim. I was always curious to see how rubber/other damping materials would affect typing feel in a custom and I seem to remember me and riot bouncing ideas off one another before anything similar had been done (his ideas were a lot more sensible than mine iirc).
Slowly coming back to activity over the past month or so, being met with the insane number of new customs and the rise of different variations of the "gasket" mount made me realise that this simple mount probably needed a refresh. I've tried to not look too deeply into these "gasket" mounts since I'd like to maintain the blank slate that my hiatus gave me.
Something I always found while trying new keyboards and different MX switches is that different mounting methods suit different switches. Of course, this is nothing new. Everyone knows that boards like the 356L and 356N were designed with specific switches in mind. However, more importantly, I recognise this is going to vary between each person; it's entirely subjective. I've been wondering why there's no custom that offers multiple options for mounting beyond changing plate material/design. The only exceptions that jump to mind would the Koala and the KMAC series, but I don't consider standard plate mount + PCB standoff mount to be enough variation.
Alright, enough bull****. I'm working on a HHKB layout board with extensive mounting options (coming close to double digits so far I think? and that's not including different plate materials) varying from my own versions of old/existing mounting methods to completely new mounting methods. I hope that this will give people the opportunity to truly tailor their typing experience for themselves from the ground up without having to buy a new keyboard for each new mount. After all, isn't that what a custom keyboard should allow you to do, rather than restrict you? And no, putting multiple mounts within one keyboard doesn't compromise any of them. I've made sure of that.
Internals are coming close. Aesthetics TBD. Name/logo TBD. I want a TKL one too. I'm busy for the next few weeks so there won't be much progress, but expect to see more soon. I finish university in a few months; prototyping will start after that.
Good to hear. Will you be doing a regular 60% design along side the hhkb one? I'd be down for a regular 60%.
Will probably only be interested in the TKL if the 60% is going to be hhkb layout only.
Post by: JuiceTin255 on Sat, 22 June 2019, 20:27:42