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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: ifearghal on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:11:52

Title: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: ifearghal on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:11:52
I would love to redo my keyboard with these switches, are they available to buy any where? Just the switches, not the whole keyboard
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:19:37
You cannot replace the typical MX board with buckling spring switches.
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:33:10
It's not possible, sorry, the only option is to buy a whole keyboard, here are the three keyboards that use them.

1. IBM Model F.

2. IBM Model M.

3. IBM Model M2

I have seen people build their own buckling spring keyboards by harvesting parts from these other keyboards, but it's much more difficult and tedious than simply swapping the switches like on an MX or ALPS board.
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:50:39
I'm assuming that you're replacing some stuff on your buckling spring keyboard.

Clickykeyboards.com - Buckling Springs, tubes, screws etc (http://clickykeyboards.com/product-category/model-m-small-parts-springs-screws-cases/)

Maybe some other cool stuff: Unicomp's Keycap stuff (http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/Buttons)

Unicomp is legit. I've never ordered from Clickykeyboards.com.
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: Touch_It on Mon, 07 March 2016, 14:19:08
Quote from: iamtootallforthis on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:19:37
You cannot replace the typical MX board with buckling spring switches.

This.  It's certainly not impossible to make a keyboard from scratch, but It wouldn't be cheap or easy.

What keyboard do you currently have?
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 07 March 2016, 17:36:26
Quote from: csmertx on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:50:39
Unicomp is legit. I've never ordered from Clickykeyboards.com.

Clickykeyboards is certainly legit. From them, you get clean vintage IBM gear, not new parts.
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 07 March 2016, 17:38:43
Quote from: fohat.digs on Mon, 07 March 2016, 17:36:26
Quote from: csmertx on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:50:39
Unicomp is legit. I've never ordered from Clickykeyboards.com.

Clickykeyboards is certainly legit. From them, you get clean vintage IBM gear, not new parts.
Thank you! I'm adding Clickykeyboards to my bookmarks.  :cool:
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: khronokrator on Mon, 07 March 2016, 19:46:45
I can vouch for Clickykeyboards. He does amazing work with his boards, and to be honest I was pretty spoiled by him when I first got into the world of vintage collecting. Sadly, no such authority exists for Alps boards. :(

Maxx of Phosphor Glow also runs a small business refurbishing Model Ms and SSKs. He's got a few boards for sale, though his primary service is cleaning and bolt-modding your old, worn-down IBM keyboards. He does a pretty incredible job for a not-ridiculous price.

http://phosphorglow.net/store/products/

I've been meaning to ask him if he works on Model Fs, too.  :p
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 07 March 2016, 19:53:46
Quote from: khronokrator on Mon, 07 March 2016, 19:46:45

Maxx of Phosphor Glow also runs a small business refurbishing Model Ms


I have never dealt with him but his reputation is impeccable.
As someone who has done a bunch of these myself, I will tell you that $45 is a great and completely fair price.
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: ctm on Mon, 07 March 2016, 21:02:30
Check this out https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79219.0
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: ctm on Mon, 07 March 2016, 21:04:31
Quote from: ctm on Mon, 07 March 2016, 21:02:30
Check this out https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/43geg7/lets_get_custom_buckling_spring_keyboards_i_want/
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: Leslieann on Mon, 07 March 2016, 21:12:39
The Oatemu/Goate blues kind of have a buckling spring feel to them.

Are they exact, no, but it's the closest I've seen in an MX style switch.
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: khronokrator on Mon, 07 March 2016, 23:34:51
Quote from: fohat.digs on Mon, 07 March 2016, 19:53:46
I have never dealt with him but his reputation is impeccable.
As someone who has done a bunch of these myself, I will tell you that $45 is a great and completely fair price.

From what I understand, it ends up being closer to $100 after shipping is considered, but for the service he offers it's still an incredible deal, and it eliminates the one structural weakness of the Model M.

Impeccable is definitely a good word for it. I've never used his service, but I bought an SSK recently from a friend who had it send out to be given the Phosphor Glow treatment. It literally looks, and feels, like a brand new board.
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: ifearghal on Tue, 08 March 2016, 12:44:57
Quote from: Touch_It on Mon, 07 March 2016, 14:19:08
Quote from: iamtootallforthis on Mon, 07 March 2016, 13:19:37
You cannot replace the typical MX board with buckling spring switches.

This.  It's certainly not impossible to make a keyboard from scratch, but It wouldn't be cheap or easy.

What keyboard do you currently have?

I currently have a Cherry MX Red K95 from corsair. Yea...I assumed it wouldn't be easy at all, but since I was going to replace the switches anyway, I thought it would  be worth a shot...
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: ifearghal on Tue, 08 March 2016, 12:48:34
Quote from: Leslieann on Mon, 07 March 2016, 21:12:39
The Oatemu/Goate blues kind of have a buckling spring feel to them.

Are they exact, no, but it's the closest I've seen in an MX style switch.

If I am unable to replace the switches with buckling springs then of course I'll be looking for alternatives. Thank you for the suggestion!
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:12:16
Quote from: ifearghal on Tue, 08 March 2016, 12:48:34
Quote from: Leslieann on Mon, 07 March 2016, 21:12:39
The Oatemu/Goate blues kind of have a buckling spring feel to them.

Are they exact, no, but it's the closest I've seen in an MX style switch.

If I am unable to replace the switches with buckling springs then of course I'll be looking for alternatives. Thank you for the suggestion!
Aha. I was wondering when you'd drop by to elaborate. Modern PCBs are not made for buckling spring switches. Best case scenario is if someone creates a buckling spring assembly for Cherry MX/Gateron housing. Which might be difficult.

Outemu seem interesting. I guess they're in the Magic Eagle keyboards? Keychatter Review by: livingspeedbump (https://www.keychatter.com/2015/10/20/review-havit-magic-eagle-hv-kb366l/#switches)

(http://i.imgur.com/n9KWGOA.jpg)
Imgur - 35 Switches Tested (http://imgur.com/a/VUqVE)
idk if they're inconsistent or the user (anonymous) found some odd switches somehow
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: ifearghal on Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:27:14
Quote from: Leslieann on Mon, 07 March 2016, 21:12:39
The Oatemu/Goate blues kind of have a buckling spring feel to them.

Are they exact, no, but it's the closest I've seen in an MX style switch.

Thank you! I've gotten a couple suggestions for these switches now. I think this will be the choice if I am completely unable to swap them with buckling.
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: ifearghal on Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:30:57
Quote from: csmertx on Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:12:16
Quote from: ifearghal on Tue, 08 March 2016, 12:48:34
Quote from: Leslieann on Mon, 07 March 2016, 21:12:39
The Oatemu/Goate blues kind of have a buckling spring feel to them.

Are they exact, no, but it's the closest I've seen in an MX style switch.

If I am unable to replace the switches with buckling springs then of course I'll be looking for alternatives. Thank you for the suggestion!
Aha. I was wondering when you'd drop by to elaborate. Modern PCBs are not made for buckling spring switches. Best case scenario is if someone creates a buckling spring assembly for Cherry MX/Gateron housing. Which might be difficult.

Outemu seem interesting. I guess they're in the Magic Eagle keyboards? Keychatter Review by: livingspeedbump (https://www.keychatter.com/2015/10/20/review-havit-magic-eagle-hv-kb366l/#switches)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/n9KWGOA.jpg)

Imgur - 35 Switches Tested (http://imgur.com/a/VUqVE)
idk if they're inconsistent or the user (anonymous) found some odd switches somehow

Haha. Yea. I'm trying to be more consistent here. Sorry for the long reply. Also I'm terrible at forums so I hope I'm replying correctly..
Thank you again for the information. It's going to help tremendously, as a make some of my final choices of how big of a project I want.
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:34:57
Quote from: ifearghal on Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:27:14
if I am completely unable to swap them with buckling.

Buckling springs are not switches. The switches in old IBM keyboards are contacts in mylar membranes that reside below the key mechanisms.

Buckling spring "switches" are not electrical switches at all but rather mechanical mechanisms to activate switches, doing almost exactly the same thing that rubber domes do.

If you separate the layers, you can activate the switches directly with your fingertip even if there are no buckling springs in the room.
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: ifearghal on Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:41:07
Quote from: fohat.digs on Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:34:57
Quote from: ifearghal on Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:27:14
if I am completely unable to swap them with buckling.

Buckling springs are not switches. The switches in old IBM keyboards are contacts in mylar membranes that reside below the key mechanisms.

Buckling spring "switches" are not electrical switches at all but rather mechanical mechanisms to activate switches, doing almost exactly the same thing that rubber domes do.

If you separate the layers, you can activate the switches directly with your fingertip even if there are no buckling springs in the room.

Ok. This is making much more sense. Thank you for the education. Sounds like if I wanted to use the switches then I either need to build a board from scratch or find one.
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 08 March 2016, 14:18:37
Quote from: ifearghal on Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:41:07
if I wanted to use the switches

Buckling spring mechanisms are not switches. Calling buckling springs switches is bad sloppy careless semantics, people on keyboard forums do it as a form of shorthand or out of laziness because on the most superficial level it communicates a notion.

After you have dis-assembled a Model M and a Model F you will understand. Seeing the parts laying out on a work bench for 2 seconds will explain it better than 10,000 words.
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 08 March 2016, 14:25:12
Quote from: fohat.digs on Tue, 08 March 2016, 14:18:37
Quote from: ifearghal on Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:41:07
if I wanted to use the switches

Buckling spring mechanisms are not switches. Calling buckling springs switches is bad sloppy careless semantics, people on keyboard forums do it as a form of shorthand or out of laziness because on the most superficial level it communicates a notion.

After you have dis-assembled a Model M and a Model F you will understand. Seeing the parts laying out on a work bench for 2 seconds will explain it better than 10,000 words.
My apologies  :-[ Sometimes I use modern words when addressing vintage technology. I will learn.
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: ifearghal on Tue, 08 March 2016, 14:28:35
 
Quote from: fohat.digs on Tue, 08 March 2016, 14:18:37
Quote from: ifearghal on Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:41:07
if I wanted to use the switches

Buckling spring mechanisms are not switches. Calling buckling springs switches is bad sloppy careless semantics, people on keyboard forums do it as a form of shorthand or out of laziness because on the most superficial level it communicates a notion.

After you have dis-assembled a Model M and a Model F you will understand. Seeing the parts laying out on a work bench for 2 seconds will explain it better than 10,000 words.


 :thumb:
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: Leslieann on Tue, 08 March 2016, 16:43:37
Quote from: csmertx on Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:12:16
Quote from: ifearghal on Tue, 08 March 2016, 12:48:34
Quote from: Leslieann on Mon, 07 March 2016, 21:12:39
The Oatemu/Goate blues kind of have a buckling spring feel to them.

Are they exact, no, but it's the closest I've seen in an MX style switch.

If I am unable to replace the switches with buckling springs then of course I'll be looking for alternatives. Thank you for the suggestion!
Aha. I was wondering when you'd drop by to elaborate. Modern PCBs are not made for buckling spring switches. Best case scenario is if someone creates a buckling spring assembly for Cherry MX/Gateron housing. Which might be difficult.

Outemu seem interesting. I guess they're in the Magic Eagle keyboards?
I got my switches in of a MagicForce keyboard, which is a smoking deal at $40.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79262.0
At the bottom is a link to the page where I got it.
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: ifearghal on Tue, 08 March 2016, 16:52:24
Wow. Thank you. I'll be taking a look!
Title: Re: Buckling Spring Switches.
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 08 March 2016, 16:57:12
Quote from: Leslieann on Tue, 08 March 2016, 16:43:37
Quote from: csmertx on Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:12:16
Quote from: ifearghal on Tue, 08 March 2016, 12:48:34
Quote from: Leslieann on Mon, 07 March 2016, 21:12:39
The Oatemu/Goate blues kind of have a buckling spring feel to them.

Are they exact, no, but it's the closest I've seen in an MX style switch.

If I am unable to replace the switches with buckling springs then of course I'll be looking for alternatives. Thank you for the suggestion!
Aha. I was wondering when you'd drop by to elaborate. Modern PCBs are not made for buckling spring switches. Best case scenario is if someone creates a buckling spring assembly for Cherry MX/Gateron housing. Which might be difficult.

Outemu seem interesting. I guess they're in the Magic Eagle keyboards?
I got my switches in of a MagicForce keyboard, which is a smoking deal at $40.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79262.0
At the bottom is a link to the page where I got it.
Sounds good, and wow you even soldered in LEDs  :)