The solar cell version of this model is super rare, although this one apparently doesn't work.Can I see pic of this "solar cell version"?
Yeah it's this one :p . Notice the little black strip under the LCD screen? Normal battery-driven 3001s don't have that. Strangely, this solar-cell model appears to have batteries as well, and different ones from the 3001/8000/9000 too. I nearly managed to snag one of these solar models half a year or so ago from a surplus website but missed it. I've only seen evidence of three or so of these in total, including this one.The solar cell version of this model is super rare, although this one apparently doesn't work.Can I see pic of this "solar cell version"?
Yeah it's this one :p . Notice the little black strip under the LCD screen? Normal battery-driven 3001s don't have that. Strangely, this solar-cell model appears to have batteries as well, and different ones from the 3001/8000/9000 too. I nearly managed to snag one of these solar models half a year or so ago from a surplus website but missed it. I've only seen evidence of three or so of these in total, including this one.The solar cell version of this model is super rare, although this one apparently doesn't work.Can I see pic of this "solar cell version"?
It doesn't work though xD . Plus, it's not cheap.Yeah it's this one :p . Notice the little black strip under the LCD screen? Normal battery-driven 3001s don't have that. Strangely, this solar-cell model appears to have batteries as well, and different ones from the 3001/8000/9000 too. I nearly managed to snag one of these solar models half a year or so ago from a surplus website but missed it. I've only seen evidence of three or so of these in total, including this one.The solar cell version of this model is super rare, although this one apparently doesn't work.Can I see pic of this "solar cell version"?
This would be a fun pickup then.
Still a cool pickup nonetheless. Cheaper price agreed though. I bet someone could fix it. Not many will have a solar powered (kinda) Alps board!It doesn't work though xD . Plus, it's not cheap.Yeah it's this one :p . Notice the little black strip under the LCD screen? Normal battery-driven 3001s don't have that. Strangely, this solar-cell model appears to have batteries as well, and different ones from the 3001/8000/9000 too. I nearly managed to snag one of these solar models half a year or so ago from a surplus website but missed it. I've only seen evidence of three or so of these in total, including this one.The solar cell version of this model is super rare, although this one apparently doesn't work.Can I see pic of this "solar cell version"?
This would be a fun pickup then.
Damn, that sure as hell needs wikification xD .
Yeah go for it, it's not a lot for a white Alps keyboard with this many switches and doubleshot keycaps. Even if the calc is absolutely shot.Damn, that sure as hell needs wikification xD .
Wow yea. It was relisted for cheaper so I think ill pick up the 3001 and fix it up.
Yeah go for it, it's not a lot for a white Alps keyboard with this many switches and doubleshot keycaps. Even if the calc is absolutely shot.Damn, that sure as hell needs wikification xD .
Wow yea. It was relisted for cheaper so I think ill pick up the 3001 and fix it up.
If you look closely you can see slits and tabs on it, so yeah, should be SKCM White.Yeah go for it, it's not a lot for a white Alps keyboard with this many switches and doubleshot keycaps. Even if the calc is absolutely shot.Damn, that sure as hell needs wikification xD .
Wow yea. It was relisted for cheaper so I think ill pick up the 3001 and fix it up.
And its made in Taiwan. So better build quality and almost guaranteed SKCM Whites since its early.
If you look closely you can see slits and tabs on it, so yeah, should be SKCM White.Yeah go for it, it's not a lot for a white Alps keyboard with this many switches and doubleshot keycaps. Even if the calc is absolutely shot.Damn, that sure as hell needs wikification xD .
Wow yea. It was relisted for cheaper so I think ill pick up the 3001 and fix it up.
And its made in Taiwan. So better build quality and almost guaranteed SKCM Whites since its early.
Cool, let us know what you find :) .If you look closely you can see slits and tabs on it, so yeah, should be SKCM White.Yeah go for it, it's not a lot for a white Alps keyboard with this many switches and doubleshot keycaps. Even if the calc is absolutely shot.Damn, that sure as hell needs wikification xD .
Wow yea. It was relisted for cheaper so I think ill pick up the 3001 and fix it up.
And its made in Taiwan. So better build quality and almost guaranteed SKCM Whites since its early.
Got it, time to celebrate! :D
Will be completely restoring this one, full cleanup + retrobright etc and getting the calculator back up and running. From the pics that battery didn't leak so thank god for that. Otherwise I will replace the liquid crystal display and stuff like that, there are very few fully working calculator FK's, and I want this one to work being so rare. The wiki on it will soon not be so bare. :) There seems to be a great deal of mystery on this board.
Cool, let us know what you find :) .If you look closely you can see slits and tabs on it, so yeah, should be SKCM White.Yeah go for it, it's not a lot for a white Alps keyboard with this many switches and doubleshot keycaps. Even if the calc is absolutely shot.Damn, that sure as hell needs wikification xD .
Wow yea. It was relisted for cheaper so I think ill pick up the 3001 and fix it up.
And its made in Taiwan. So better build quality and almost guaranteed SKCM Whites since its early.
Got it, time to celebrate! :D
Will be completely restoring this one, full cleanup + retrobright etc and getting the calculator back up and running. From the pics that battery didn't leak so thank god for that. Otherwise I will replace the liquid crystal display and stuff like that, there are very few fully working calculator FK's, and I want this one to work being so rare. The wiki on it will soon not be so bare. :) There seems to be a great deal of mystery on this board.
The FK-8000 is the 2nd-gen successor of the FK-3001. It was in turn succeeded by the 3rd-gen FK-8200.Cool, let us know what you find :) .If you look closely you can see slits and tabs on it, so yeah, should be SKCM White.Yeah go for it, it's not a lot for a white Alps keyboard with this many switches and doubleshot keycaps. Even if the calc is absolutely shot.Damn, that sure as hell needs wikification xD .
Wow yea. It was relisted for cheaper so I think ill pick up the 3001 and fix it up.
And its made in Taiwan. So better build quality and almost guaranteed SKCM Whites since its early.
Got it, time to celebrate! :D
Will be completely restoring this one, full cleanup + retrobright etc and getting the calculator back up and running. From the pics that battery didn't leak so thank god for that. Otherwise I will replace the liquid crystal display and stuff like that, there are very few fully working calculator FK's, and I want this one to work being so rare. The wiki on it will soon not be so bare. :) There seems to be a great deal of mystery on this board.
Will do. The serial number on the back in the pic's seems really different from the ones ive seen and the one on you FK-2002. Its a missing a whole numeral. I wonder when these were made, similar to the FK-2002's timeline? The FK-8000 is much more common, maybe a replacement?
The FK-8000 is the 2nd-gen successor of the FK-3001. It was in turn succeeded by the 3rd-gen FK-8200.Cool, let us know what you find :) .If you look closely you can see slits and tabs on it, so yeah, should be SKCM White.Yeah go for it, it's not a lot for a white Alps keyboard with this many switches and doubleshot keycaps. Even if the calc is absolutely shot.Damn, that sure as hell needs wikification xD .
Wow yea. It was relisted for cheaper so I think ill pick up the 3001 and fix it up.
And its made in Taiwan. So better build quality and almost guaranteed SKCM Whites since its early.
Got it, time to celebrate! :D
Will be completely restoring this one, full cleanup + retrobright etc and getting the calculator back up and running. From the pics that battery didn't leak so thank god for that. Otherwise I will replace the liquid crystal display and stuff like that, there are very few fully working calculator FK's, and I want this one to work being so rare. The wiki on it will soon not be so bare. :) There seems to be a great deal of mystery on this board.
Will do. The serial number on the back in the pic's seems really different from the ones ive seen and the one on you FK-2002. Its a missing a whole numeral. I wonder when these were made, similar to the FK-2002's timeline? The FK-8000 is much more common, maybe a replacement?
*many quotes*
I'm somewhat of a Focus nut so I've looked into quite a lot of Focus keyboards. Here's the generations I've divided them into so far:
0th gen (we don't know exactly when these were, just that they were before the others):
555, 747
1st gen:
1001, 2000plus, 2001, 2002, 3001, 5001
2nd gen:
6000, 7000P, 8000, 9000
3rd gen:
6200, 7200, 8200, 9200
Rough succession line:
2001 -> 6000 -> 6200
2001 -> 2001 -> 2001
7000P -> 7200
5001 -> 9000 -> 9200
0th gen are all blue Alps and occasionally cyan Omnoms. 1st gen were originally blue Alps but went through to white Alps which most of them are. 2nd gen came with white Alps originally but after that clones and even occasionally completely different switch types like Futabas. 3rd gen are Focus dome with slider. The FK-2001 appears to have transcended way past its own generation and bled into the 2nd and probably even the 3rd generation, probably as a "classic" model, a bit like Unicomp's Ultra Classic Model M which runs alongside their current one. By that time it had gone from a 101-key AT/XT keyboard with genuine Alps switches, doubleshot keycaps and a built-in dust cover to a 104-key PS/2 keyboard with some fairly vile clones, partially pad-printed keycaps and they left out the dust cover as well - a major decline of such an awesome keyboard.
Of course there are many gaps in my knowledge as well, but this is what I've found so far. The one who knows most about Focus is probably Engicoder, he has even more than I do xD .
The China plant is a bit of a mystery to me. It appears they started off at the Taiwan ROC plant which also made all the Omnikeys - the "missing link" Northgate FK-555 pretty much sealed together all the other evidence on that. The China plant seems to have been separate, but kept using genuine white Alps until much later than other plants. Alps switch production and keyboard assembly is all but a complete mystery at this point though, we've been trying to piece it together in a discussion on DT but we haven't much much at all so far.*many quotes*
I'm somewhat of a Focus nut so I've looked into quite a lot of Focus keyboards. Here's the generations I've divided them into so far:
0th gen (we don't know exactly when these were, just that they were before the others):
555, 747
1st gen:
1001, 2000plus, 2001, 2002, 3001, 5001
2nd gen:
6000, 7000P, 8000, 9000
3rd gen:
6200, 7200, 8200, 9200
Rough succession line:
2001 -> 6000 -> 6200
2001 -> 2001 -> 2001
7000P -> 7200
5001 -> 9000 -> 9200
0th gen are all blue Alps and occasionally cyan Omnoms. 1st gen were originally blue Alps but went through to white Alps which most of them are. 2nd gen came with white Alps originally but after that clones and even occasionally completely different switch types like Futabas. 3rd gen are Focus dome with slider. The FK-2001 appears to have transcended way past its own generation and bled into the 2nd and probably even the 3rd generation, probably as a "classic" model, a bit like Unicomp's Ultra Classic Model M which runs alongside their current one. By that time it had gone from a 101-key AT/XT keyboard with genuine Alps switches, doubleshot keycaps and a built-in dust cover to a 104-key PS/2 keyboard with some fairly vile clones, partially pad-printed keycaps and they left out the dust cover as well - a major decline of such an awesome keyboard.
Of course there are many gaps in my knowledge as well, but this is what I've found so far. The one who knows most about Focus is probably Engicoder, he has even more than I do xD .
Damn, you got it down my friend. Yea, thats the way everything went, a slow decline in quality. Nice I got a rare 1st gen with the common (but still great) SKCM White. All I need now is a dust cover for my 3001, maybe ebay has some. When did they switch to China?
Yeah, it's all very interesting if you have a historian's mindset. What's curious is that the FK-8000 and FK-9000 seem to have been contemporaneous, yet the 9000 seems to have generally shipped with authentic bamboo SKCM White Alps, whereas the 8000 used clones.Negatory, many many 9000s used clones! Or sometimes even clones and genuine Alps at the same time, though that went for the 8000 as well.
Well, that's unfortunate. I just grabbed an FK-9000 off eBay for a decent price on the premise it had SKCMs (since the one cap the seller had pulled clearly showed bamboo switches).
If it's a hodgepodge I'll be greatly disappointed. :-X
The China plant is a bit of a mystery to me. It appears they started off at the Taiwan ROC plant which also made all the Omnikeys - the "missing link" Northgate FK-555 pretty much sealed together all the other evidence on that. The China plant seems to have been separate, but kept using genuine white Alps until much later than other plants. Alps switch production and keyboard assembly is all but a complete mystery at this point though, we've been trying to piece it together in a discussion on DT but we haven't much much at all so far.*many quotes*
I'm somewhat of a Focus nut so I've looked into quite a lot of Focus keyboards. Here's the generations I've divided them into so far:
0th gen (we don't know exactly when these were, just that they were before the others):
555, 747
1st gen:
1001, 2000plus, 2001, 2002, 3001, 5001
2nd gen:
6000, 7000P, 8000, 9000
3rd gen:
6200, 7200, 8200, 9200
Rough succession line:
2001 -> 6000 -> 6200
2001 -> 2001 -> 2001
7000P -> 7200
5001 -> 9000 -> 9200
0th gen are all blue Alps and occasionally cyan Omnoms. 1st gen were originally blue Alps but went through to white Alps which most of them are. 2nd gen came with white Alps originally but after that clones and even occasionally completely different switch types like Futabas. 3rd gen are Focus dome with slider. The FK-2001 appears to have transcended way past its own generation and bled into the 2nd and probably even the 3rd generation, probably as a "classic" model, a bit like Unicomp's Ultra Classic Model M which runs alongside their current one. By that time it had gone from a 101-key AT/XT keyboard with genuine Alps switches, doubleshot keycaps and a built-in dust cover to a 104-key PS/2 keyboard with some fairly vile clones, partially pad-printed keycaps and they left out the dust cover as well - a major decline of such an awesome keyboard.
Of course there are many gaps in my knowledge as well, but this is what I've found so far. The one who knows most about Focus is probably Engicoder, he has even more than I do xD .
Damn, you got it down my friend. Yea, thats the way everything went, a slow decline in quality. Nice I got a rare 1st gen with the common (but still great) SKCM White. All I need now is a dust cover for my 3001, maybe ebay has some. When did they switch to China?
Good luck my friend.
Good luck my friend.
Thank you, good sir. It appears my fears were unfounded... sort of?
It came in today, and while I haven't completely removed all of the caps, I removed the keycaps from a random number of switches across the keyboard and they all seem to be 'genuine' bamboo White Alps. Weirdly, the F switches in the top row feel different and seem to be an upside-down logo variant of bamboo Alps I've never seen before, which makes me suspect they might be clones.
But really, none of the supposed bamboo Alps on this keyboard feel anything like the switches on my Silitek, which was basically NIB when I got it. The Silitek's have a completely different sound and much richer tactile feedback, whereas the switches on the Focus just have a simple bump and click that reminds me a lot of Matias switches... yet they appear to be the same. Wear and tear, or just clever clones?
I need Chyros' expertise on this. :p
It's weird. They feel absolutely fine, no grittiness or stickiness whatsoever, like you'd typically associate with dirty Alps. Just not nearly as good as some of my other SKCMs.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/snAwkWg.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/x3og1QU.jpg)
Obviously it needs a good cleaning, though I don't have such great luck with switch disassembly/reassembly. :-X
Still, the thing is ridiculously interesting, like all weird Focus boards are.
Edit: Suppose it's really academic at this point. I finally got around to testing this thing aaaand... the calculator works perfectly, but the keyboard itself does not. No keys register. So, basically the same problem that most of the rest of the internet has with these boards. :(
Yeah, it's all very interesting if you have a historian's mindset. What's curious is that the FK-8000 and FK-9000 seem to have been contemporaneous, yet the 9000 seems to have generally shipped with authentic bamboo SKCM White Alps, whereas the 8000 used clones.Negatory, many many 9000s used clones! Or sometimes even clones and genuine Alps at the same time, though that went for the 8000 as well.
Focus definitely used what was lying around. Engicoder has an FK-8000 from '92 with Futabas that actually uses GENUINE GREEN ALPS for the lock light switches. Those greens aren't from the 90s or even the late 80s though as they're the grey switchplate version, so they're probably '85-'88.
I think Chyros had a similar problem a while back. In this board, the calculator works fine and the display is perfect, but the rest of the keyboard isn't sending any scan codes.
If I use a second keyboard and press the Caps/Num/Scroll lock keys, the lock lights do light up on the 9000. But there's no response from anything else when in KB mode, though, so... sigh. :(
Does it actually need a battery for the keyboard itself to work? Seems unlikely, but it's all I have. The seller did note that the original was removed because it had started to leak and corrode the housing...
I'm really getting sick of DOA keyboards.
The PCB is really hard to get at because the case is clamped together (which I hate) and the calculator's display is directly attached to the top plastic shell.
I'll give it a look, but I have zero knowledge of electrical stuff.
You're right, of course. Pics forthcoming:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/3DeDhb4.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/S6WfX0l.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/g0koaO1.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/fWPjNLp.jpg)
Only obvious signs of problems are the dried battery acid where the battery normally sits, to my untrained eyes at least.
One thing you can't see in these pictures is that the PCB itself is actually bent around the calculator area to a slight but alarming degree:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/bKbK2KF.jpg)
It's weird. They feel absolutely fine, no grittiness or stickiness whatsoever, like you'd typically associate with dirty Alps. Just not nearly as good as some of my other SKCMs.It is probably an SKCM switch, but that doesn’t look quite like the “pine” SKCM top housing numbering I’ve seen before. It might well be a “bamboo” era switch with a slightly misleading top. In any event, it’s one of the later switches, more like 1993 than 1990. (The chips in your pictures are numbered to indicate they were produced sometime in 1992.)
I don't think the FK-9000 has DIP switches, unfortunately. The solder joints look and feel pretty good, it just seems that something's wrong with the logic or circuitry somewhere. Seems to be a pretty common problem with these calculator keyboards; Focus' fairly cheap build quality really shows up here. Disappointing, because this keyboard has a lot of charm and I was looking forward to using it.
That's not a DIP switch, it's the XT/AT switch.
If I'm using incorrect terminology, my bad. Moving it X number of times has no effect whatsoever, though.
Hey Chyros, it turns out one of the terminals on my board was so corroded that one of the wires simply broke off at the slightest application of pressure while I was taking the board apart. Can it be resoldered, or am I SOL? :-XThat's pretty normal. The wires the terminals are connected by are pretty flimsy anyway. Focus cases are pretty hard to open (you need to SLIDE rather than pull) and there's not a lot of slack on them so they often come off immediately. Of course you can resolder them, it's just metal to metal :) .
Ah man, it'll take a while to get one of those batteries, too.
Hey Chyros, it turns out one of the terminals on my board was so corroded that one of the wires simply broke off at the slightest application of pressure while I was taking the board apart. Can it be resoldered, or am I SOL? :-XThat's pretty normal. The wires the terminals are connected by are pretty flimsy anyway. Focus cases are pretty hard to open (you need to SLIDE rather than pull) and there's not a lot of slack on them so they often come off immediately. Of course you can resolder them, it's just metal to metal :) .
Ah man, it'll take a while to get one of those batteries, too.
It looks like a standard size battery, but they're probably nicads rather than metal hydride batteries. Those aren't made in the western world anymore, but I managed to import some replacement nicads for another Focus board I own from China. Takes ages to arrive, but worked in the end :) . If you have a battery with the appropriate voltage you can jury rig the terminals of the battery to those of the calculator (make sure you connect the right ends!) and then see if that makes the keyboard work. If it does, order some proper batteries from China, that's how I did it.
I have a project tangent to this in the works, about which I'll be making a full report at some point in the future ;) .
I see my name being called out a couple of times, here I am xD .
There is a simple answer to why you're preferring the new Silitek Alps ones to the SKCM whites; the conditions aren't comparable :p . SKCM White should in fact feel much more tactile and defined than SKCM black. Your version is pine btw, not bamboo (the blacks will be bamboo). Even if you think you can't tell they feel dirty, when an Alps board looks like that, it doesn't feel the same; I know this all too well. Your SKCM whites are dirty!
An AT/XT switch I think may be a kind of DIP switch. Focus also used DIP switches on some boards to set the protocol, and most boards include a cutout under the badge, at the rear, or under one of the feet for one, even if it doesn't use it.
Note that your SKCM whites are actually from a different batch than other Alps switches are, they're from the hand-written one. I have an NTC (probably made by the same people in the same plant) with the same style of switches. Because those are quite badly used I can't rule out that they feel different compared to other Alps switches, but frankly I really see no reason why it should. The upside-down ones are almost certainly soldered in the other way around; some other Focus boards do this too. That said, I think these hand-written ones could come with the writing upside down too.
As for the batteries; yes, actually it will probably need them. The FK-9000 doesn't work without batteries because of a rather silly power routing design issue - I accidentally scrapped a 9000 that I thought was unsalvageable, this way. It's very possible the 3001 needs them as well. Make sure to clean the acid off the terminals and then replace them with some fresh batteries of the same specs.
The other 3001 already went btw xD .
Well with the battery I had I found that the batteries of that voltage and charge were much smaller so they didn't fit the enclosure properly, while the ones that were of the same size were much more powerful.Hey Chyros, it turns out one of the terminals on my board was so corroded that one of the wires simply broke off at the slightest application of pressure while I was taking the board apart. Can it be resoldered, or am I SOL? :-XThat's pretty normal. The wires the terminals are connected by are pretty flimsy anyway. Focus cases are pretty hard to open (you need to SLIDE rather than pull) and there's not a lot of slack on them so they often come off immediately. Of course you can resolder them, it's just metal to metal :) .
Ah man, it'll take a while to get one of those batteries, too.
It looks like a standard size battery, but they're probably nicads rather than metal hydride batteries. Those aren't made in the western world anymore, but I managed to import some replacement nicads for another Focus board I own from China. Takes ages to arrive, but worked in the end :) . If you have a battery with the appropriate voltage you can jury rig the terminals of the battery to those of the calculator (make sure you connect the right ends!) and then see if that makes the keyboard work. If it does, order some proper batteries from China, that's how I did it.
I have a project tangent to this in the works, about which I'll be making a full report at some point in the future ;) .
Do they have to be nicad?
Would something like this work?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170631214366
That's a 9000 battery. Don't know if it will work with the 3001 as well.Would something like this work?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170631214366
Wonder the same.
That's a 9000 battery. Don't know if it will work with the 3001 as well.Would something like this work?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170631214366
Wonder the same.
IT ****ING WORKS, ALL OF IT
The calculator works, and so does the keyboard! The numbers look a bit screwed up on the screen but that can be fixed. Also does the solar panel! The battery must be shot since, when I take it in the sunlight the calculator lights up!!!
The only weird thing is that print screen activates shift and *, and the pause key activates ctrl and numlock 0.0 Maybe the PCB needs some cleaning. Its quite dirty. Or maybe its my USB converter.
IT ****ING WORKS, ALL OF IT
The calculator works, and so does the keyboard! The numbers look a bit screwed up on the screen but that can be fixed. Also does the solar panel! The battery must be shot since, when I take it in the sunlight the calculator lights up!!!
The only weird thing is that print screen activates shift and *, and the pause key activates ctrl and numlock 0.0 Maybe the PCB needs some cleaning. Its quite dirty. Or maybe its my USB converter.
Congratulations, my friend! Glad to hear that yours is actually working. As I've said, I agree with Chryos that these weird Focus keyboards are endlessly fascinating.
As for my own FK-9000, my soldering skills are fairly abysmal and I think I botched the resoldering of the left wire to the terminal. If it works at all when the battery arrives, it'll frankly be a minor miracle. :(
Yeah, I think the worst thing Focus could've possibly done was to use that Ni-CD monstrosity (a very apt name for it, indeed) on the Fk-9000. Then they apparently did themselves one better and decided that it would be an integral part of the circuitry of the keyboard, according to Chyros, so it won't work without it. :rolleyes:
It's too bad, because I really like this keyboard. How is the keyfeel on yours? Did you get SKCMs or clones?
I got my FK-9000 cleaned up, or at least as cleaned up as I could without pulling the switches out. Hope I can get a FK-5001 sometime, sounds like it'd be a hell of a lot more reliable.
Has to be a PCB problem. A matrix error, like with my Leading Edge, perhaps?
Chyros, the oracle of Alps, we beseech thee.
Again, your luck makes me very envious. :p
Would make sense, actually. I'm shocked I didn't think of that earlier, since you can enable that exact same setting in a Northgate via its DIP switches. Hah. And you actually *have* DIP switches to play with!
Pretty sure the reason that you were getting those weird key combos is the controller sending XT scan codes for them, shift * was the original combination for print screen iirc (check old XT boards).
It's probably some kind of compatibility setting. True AT wouldn't have that combination.Pretty sure the reason that you were getting those weird key combos is the controller sending XT scan codes for them, shift * was the original combination for print screen iirc (check old XT boards).
I guess, but it was in PC/AT mode so it must be an older protocol than what we normally know as AT. Most AT boards just have one setting.
Alright, so the aptly named Varta "monstrosity" came today and you were completely right, Chyros. Swapping the battery in seems to have solved the problem! So, thank you, my friend. ;)
All is not completely well, however. The C and especially S keys almost never register, requiring me to mash them multiple times, and the #2 key in home row (not the numpad) doesn't work at all. Also, the T key sometimes outputs multiple characters per keypress, e.g. ttttt. I'm thinking it sounds like dead keys, and I'm hoping it isn't a greater electrical problem.
The feel of the switches is pretty horrible anyway and I think I'm going to transplant them out, since for me disassembly will be a nightmare.
I also have no idea how the programmable F keys work.
Alright, so the aptly named Varta "monstrosity" came today and you were completely right, Chyros. Swapping the battery in seems to have solved the problem! So, thank you, my friend. ;)No worries mate, always happy to help :) .
All is not completely well, however. The C and especially S keys almost never register, requiring me to mash them multiple times, and the #2 key in home row (not the numpad) doesn't work at all. Also, the T key sometimes outputs multiple characters per keypress, e.g. ttttt. I'm thinking it sounds like dead keys, and I'm hoping it isn't a greater electrical problem.Almost certainly a contact problem. Clean out the switches and check the soldering on the dead ones. Test for continuity with the switch open and closed and see what that yields, that should give an answer. Try re-flowing the solder flux, or if that doesn't work, substitute in another switch.
I also have no idea how the programmable F keys work.Go to MS-DOS, then press prog+PF1, then enter the characters you want to input, and end with PF1 again. There's a very low maximum amount of characters and modifiers take up more than one, though. If you've hit the maximum, which changes depending on the alignment of the stars with Mars and Jupiter, it will end the programming automatically without needing to press PF1 again. If it's worked, after pressing PF1 again, the characters on the screen will delete.
Hey guys – I bought the other FK-3001 Mattr567 mentioned on pg. 1 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80334.msg2120043#msg2120043). I couldn't resist the tantalizing possibility it might contain Alps Blues. Yeah, I know it's unlikely—but for $40 + shipping it seemed a reasonable risk, and it'll be a nice (and seldom-seen) board no matter what.
Obviously people were asking the seller to "look under a cap", because this was appended to the description:
(Attachment Link)
These didn't have Alps Blacks, to my knowledge... So I'm guessing she obediently removed a cap and "looked under it"—at the color of the double-shot legend. :?)
In a rare fit of marriage-defying chutzpah, I also picked up this Quimax KI-5170 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/121939076717), as it was considerably less than the other few that have appeared recently (but seemed in very nice shape). I'd read about its contactless magnetic valve switches (https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/adi-ki-5170-t6915.html), and that was just too intriguing to pass up. I'll post a review about both boards when I can. Cheers!
Eww at the yellowing, or the slider?
I'm going to make mine a daily driver... eventually, when I get some time and dig out my soldering equipment. I've got a Zeos keyboard with decent enough SKCMs that it can be a donor.
Go to MS-DOS, then...
I actually found one if those actually floppy floppy disks a few weeks ago that had DOS on it xD . That was quite a trip down memory lane xD .Go to MS-DOS, then...
Wow—that's like saying, "Call up your high school girlfriend..." Not that I haven't been tempted.
The weird thing is, considering their common heritage and (possibly) manufacturer, Northgate bigass enters only use a single stabilizer, IIRC. And that's what I'm most used to, hence the many expletives I unleashed upon the FK-9000.
And thanks again, Chyros. I'll probably plug the FK-9000 in tomorrow and test its programmable keys in the command prompt. If I can get this board cleaned up well enough I may take it along on my next vacation, provided the TSA doesn't completely flip out during security screening.
(you should do this too Chryos, your FK 8000 deserves it)Engicoder has been helping me with a project related to this, I suspect you're going to love it ;D . Might take a while yet, though.
(you should do this too Chryos, your FK 8000 deserves it)Engicoder has been helping me with a project related to this, I suspect you're going to love it ;D . Might take a while yet, though.
Nope, none at all xD . It's going to be amazing though, I can't wait for it :D .(you should do this too Chryos, your FK 8000 deserves it)Engicoder has been helping me with a project related to this, I suspect you're going to love it ;D . Might take a while yet, though.
No pressure :-P I think it should work for the 3001 as well but might take a little dremel work.
Nope, none at all xD . It's going to be amazing though, I can't wait for it :D .(you should do this too Chryos, your FK 8000 deserves it)Engicoder has been helping me with a project related to this, I suspect you're going to love it ;D . Might take a while yet, though.
No pressure :-P I think it should work for the 3001 as well but might take a little dremel work.
BTW, nice pictures Matt, would you mind sticking them on the DT wiki? IIRC there's no info or pics on that page AT ALL Oo .
The weird double switching configuration seems to be something Focus retained with the FK-3001 and the FK-5001 until they made their successors, the 8000 and 9000 respectively.
I honestly prefer the bigass Futaba lock switches on the 8000/9000 over the configuration of the 3001/5001, but the earlier models are probably better built, and are certainly less prone to dead calculator and/or keyboard syndrome. (Especially with that godawful NiCad battery. What was Focus thinking?)
I also really like the Alps locking lights on the 9000; they look seriously cool.
Yea, I wish I had lock lights. They are much cooler than keyboard ones. I wanted to get a 8000 for that reason but I didn't find dealing with a chance of clones worth it. Also for the reasons you stated. On the 3001's wiki page I made a note of the battery change, and the awful leaking NiCads :P
So how do you like the 9000? Interesting board but I don't think I could get used the arrow cluster. Also have you cleaned your switches? Its totally worth it. Luckily my other Alps boards don't need it :confused: I didn't notice a major change in cleaning my SKCM Oranges or SKCL Greens. The SKCM White change was huge. They click louder, stronger, and prouder. They feel smoother and more responsive.
Well it was meant to be used in MS-DOS, but fortunately you can use the command prompt too :) .
Well it was meant to be used in MS-DOS, but fortunately you can use the command prompt too :) .
Oh yeah, the command line! That is sort of like DOS, isn't it? I never thought of it that way.
In case anyone's interested, here's a little follow up on the FK-3001 I ordered:
It did, indeed, have Whites. And they were scratchy and needed cleaning. Fortunately—despite the note I always send KB sellers, asking them to please pack carefully—the seller shipped it in a single-layer box with no packing material whatsoever, and it arrived with the battery cover broken off. So it's going back, postpaid. At least I got to see what kind of switches it had. (My theory about "black under the caps" was apparently true.)
That sucks, mine came expertly wrapped. Did the calc work?
I'm really loving these programmable function keys, I just wish they stored more than an average of 8 characters or so. :p
Going to either clean and/or have the switches replaced relatively soon. This keyboard is definitely what I'd call "charming" and with some switch work would be my daily driver.
Is there a trick to getting the calculator to display correctly if there are dead pixels? Seems everyone was saying that would be fixable. I'm thinking it's a bad connection to the LCD, but I don't think that's something that can just be soldered.Not really. Focus used very cheap displays that exhibit this issue after a while due to old age. I have even seen this happen on unused ones. Getting one with a display that works and then doesn't give up quickly after is very hard.
Just won this one:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/3001-Focus-Keyboard-Vintage-/152065914069?txnId=0
....but am anticipating that it will have display issues at the very least and from reading the rest of this forum, seems quite possible that the keyboard part might not work either. No possibility of blue alps per the description unfortunately. Fingers crossed that it mostly works though :)
On a related note, I think I killed my FK-9000. :(
Attempted to transplant some switches into it earlier this week, and though nothing appears to be wrong the entire PCB seemed to short out. The loose lead from the battery terminal kept coming loose and I had to resolder, cut, and resolder it several times before I got it to stick. Depending upon how you maneuver the very short lead cable you can now get maybe 50% of the switches to work, but the home row cluster seems completely dead. Guess I'll have to disassemble it for parts, since the Alps world doesn't really have resources like clickykeyboards.com or Phosphor Glow to turn to. Quite sad.
Is there a trick to getting the calculator to display correctly if there are dead pixels? Seems everyone was saying that would be fixable. I'm thinking it's a bad connection to the LCD, but I don't think that's something that can just be soldered.Not really. Focus used very cheap displays that exhibit this issue after a while due to old age. I have even seen this happen on unused ones. Getting one with a display that works and then doesn't give up quickly after is very hard.
Just won this one:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/3001-Focus-Keyboard-Vintage-/152065914069?txnId=0
....but am anticipating that it will have display issues at the very least and from reading the rest of this forum, seems quite possible that the keyboard part might not work either. No possibility of blue alps per the description unfortunately. Fingers crossed that it mostly works though :)
Again, this is why I wish we had an Alps equivalent to Phosphor Glow so that those of us less-technically-inclined could just send our boards in to be renovated/fixed instead of having to do everything ourselves. It's the single biggest frustration of dealing with Alps boards, IMO. :-XHaha, who knows, you might just get your wish in the future xD .
If it were at all feasible (i.e. postage/shipping) I'd be very much in favor of you starting up your own Alps fixing service, Chyros. ;)
If it were at all feasible (i.e. postage/shipping) I'd be very much in favor of you starting up your own Alps fixing service, Chyros. ;)Heheh oh not me xD .