Post by: nerp on Sun, 13 March 2016, 21:11:07
I've played with the Cherry switches, I'm not much of an Alps man and while I love my buckling spring, I'm sorry, these Topre switches just nail it.
The Type Heaven is solid enough for the price and I get the the ABS keys aren't in the same league as the PBTs on the Realforce. They had to cut some corners to get the price down. If I didn't know the PBT keys were that much better I wouldn't care.
So the way I see it, I have a future Realforce purchase in my future, and that's about it. Is this really the end of the line? Can anyone give me a reason to look beyond this for any reason? Has anyone migrated away from Topre switches to something else and can offer a compelling story?
(http://i.imgur.com/I1t8LaZ.jpg)
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sun, 13 March 2016, 21:14:13
But seriously, I've introduced a few people to topre through the type heaven and they've been using them ever since. In my opinion it is a great board and even though the caps are ABS they aren't awful.
I say until you find a reason to be unhappy with what you've got look no further. :)
Post by: quasistellar on Sun, 13 March 2016, 21:21:55
Good luck, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Post by: demik on Sun, 13 March 2016, 21:22:56
Everything else is "topre"
Post by: FLFisherman on Sun, 13 March 2016, 21:23:40
55g RF and HHKB are topre.
Everything else is "topre"
At least capitalize the glorious switch type. It's like you don't really care about Topre.
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 13 March 2016, 21:23:46
Post by: appleonama on Sun, 13 March 2016, 21:24:15
Post by: demik on Sun, 13 March 2016, 21:24:21
55g RF and HHKB are topre.
Everything else is "topre"
At least capitalize the glorious switch type. It's like you don't really care about Topre.
TOE PE REH
Post by: Olumin on Sun, 13 March 2016, 21:34:19
Post by: 1391406 on Sun, 13 March 2016, 22:19:00
Post by: nerp on Sun, 13 March 2016, 22:42:35
I started with a Type Heaven, upgraded to an RF 87U and ultimately an RF 104U Silent. /endgame
Perhaps a compromise and a nice 9-pin dot matrix printer.
Post by: derb2k2 on Sun, 13 March 2016, 22:45:12
(https://static2.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Eamane+sounds+like+quot+yeahmane+quot+like+something+a+proud+man+_1059fbe8977250408560147fe31d69f3.jpg)
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 13 March 2016, 22:53:33
55g RF and HHKB are topre.
Everything else is "topre"
At least capitalize the glorious switch type. It's like you don't really care about Topre.
TOE PE REH
Thorpe.
Post by: bocahgundul on Sun, 13 March 2016, 23:42:40
You still haven't tried alps and other old switches
Post by: y11971alex on Sun, 13 March 2016, 23:48:27
Post by: slickmamba on Mon, 14 March 2016, 00:22:12
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 14 March 2016, 00:37:15
Edit: + Alps
Post by: b0f0 on Mon, 14 March 2016, 01:41:11
and then when I think about HHKB:
a this price not illuminated
not programmable (could go with hasu but add another amount of $$)
and probably later not satisfied with keycaps
But people still believe in it. Dont understand this.
I just saw someone sell his hhkb for 250€, a used one...
I ll wait for HHKB 3 or something like Whitefox... hopfully its all programmable and much different than the way it is now.
But then again a really have to find someone with topre to test it myself.
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 14 March 2016, 01:49:05
I suspect that when you buy a topre keyboard and because of a high price you pay, later you dont admit that its not that different or maybe I should say much better than MX switches. Or maybe I am wrong about that, but the price for topre, hmm, lets look at HHKB2 is really high, 200$ or 300$ for type S. Becuase I am from EU this means I pay the tax of 22% and then the custum cares (at the border) and the shipping costs. That makes price go up to heaven.Perfection is expensive, is it not?
and then when I think about HHKB:
a this price not illuminated
not programmable (could go with hasu but add another amount of $$)
and probably later not satisfied with keycaps
But people still believe in it. Dont understand this.
I just saw someone sell his hhkb for 250€, a used one...
I ll wait for HHKB 3 or something like Whitefox... hopfully its all programmable and much different than the way it is now.
But then again a really have to find someone with topre to test it myself.
Post by: b0f0 on Mon, 14 March 2016, 01:56:39
Yes. But I am affraid its too much for what you really get. Hope I am wrong.I suspect that when you buy a topre keyboard and because of a high price you pay, later you dont admit that its not that different or maybe I should say much better than MX switches. Or maybe I am wrong about that, but the price for topre, hmm, lets look at HHKB2 is really high, 200$ or 300$ for type S. Becuase I am from EU this means I pay the tax of 22% and then the custum cares (at the border) and the shipping costs. That makes price go up to heaven.Perfection is expensive, is it not?
and then when I think about HHKB:
a this price not illuminated
not programmable (could go with hasu but add another amount of $$)
and probably later not satisfied with keycaps
But people still believe in it. Dont understand this.
I just saw someone sell his hhkb for 250€, a used one...
I ll wait for HHKB 3 or something like Whitefox... hopfully its all programmable and much different than the way it is now.
But then again a really have to find someone with topre to test it myself.
Post by: demik on Mon, 14 March 2016, 01:58:37
Quote
a this price not illuminated
is this suppose to be a con? hell, i'd pay extra to have backlit gaudiness removed.
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 14 March 2016, 02:01:31
I thought the same. But then I looked up the temperature tolerances of silicone. This is no ordinary rubber dome (add springs) :thumb:Yes. But I am affraid its too much for what you really get. Hope I am wrong.I suspect that when you buy a topre keyboard and because of a high price you pay, later you dont admit that its not that different or maybe I should say much better than MX switches. Or maybe I am wrong about that, but the price for topre, hmm, lets look at HHKB2 is really high, 200$ or 300$ for type S. Becuase I am from EU this means I pay the tax of 22% and then the custum cares (at the border) and the shipping costs. That makes price go up to heaven.Perfection is expensive, is it not?
and then when I think about HHKB:
a this price not illuminated
not programmable (could go with hasu but add another amount of $$)
and probably later not satisfied with keycaps
But people still believe in it. Dont understand this.
I just saw someone sell his hhkb for 250€, a used one...
I ll wait for HHKB 3 or something like Whitefox... hopfully its all programmable and much different than the way it is now.
But then again a really have to find someone with topre to test it myself.
Post by: b0f0 on Mon, 14 March 2016, 02:08:08
Quote
is this suppose to be a con? hell, i'd pay extra to have backlit gaudiness removed.For the price it sells its a con. Why ? Because when you have a cloudy day or when it becomes dark in the room the LED lights really make a difference. I am able to see the chars easily when using LED.
Post by: b0f0 on Mon, 14 March 2016, 02:14:44
I ll think about it, maybe saving money for such a keyboard is really a good choice to make.I thought the same. But then I looked up the temperature tolerances of silicone. This is no ordinary rubber dome (add springs) :thumb:Yes. But I am affraid its too much for what you really get. Hope I am wrong.I suspect that when you buy a topre keyboard and because of a high price you pay, later you dont admit that its not that different or maybe I should say much better than MX switches. Or maybe I am wrong about that, but the price for topre, hmm, lets look at HHKB2 is really high, 200$ or 300$ for type S. Becuase I am from EU this means I pay the tax of 22% and then the custum cares (at the border) and the shipping costs. That makes price go up to heaven.Perfection is expensive, is it not?
and then when I think about HHKB:
a this price not illuminated
not programmable (could go with hasu but add another amount of $$)
and probably later not satisfied with keycaps
But people still believe in it. Dont understand this.
I just saw someone sell his hhkb for 250€, a used one...
I ll wait for HHKB 3 or something like Whitefox... hopfully its all programmable and much different than the way it is now.
But then again a really have to find someone with topre to test it myself.
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 14 March 2016, 02:15:56
Post by: demik on Mon, 14 March 2016, 02:19:17
Quoteis this suppose to be a con? hell, i'd pay extra to have backlit gaudiness removed.For the price it sells its a con. Why ? Because when you have a butty day or when it becomes dark in the room the LED lights really make a difference. I am able to see the chars easily when using LED.
why are you looking at your keys to begin with?
i mean if you're going to spend that much money you should know how to touch type already..
Post by: b0f0 on Mon, 14 March 2016, 02:21:42
I could never understand that. I live in Florida, bright as ****. So I have a covering on the window (pitch black), the monitor is on low, yet I can still look down to see when I'm hitting CTRL + V... Get a desk lamp? idk.. Will I be converted to RGB keyboards?! :eek:I like white LED light. Desk lamp occupies space on the desk, but to have one on it, yes I could do that.
Post by: demik on Mon, 14 March 2016, 02:22:43
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 14 March 2016, 02:28:10
Post by: fuzzybaffy on Mon, 14 March 2016, 03:17:36
So when you consider a typical Cherry MX board costs around $100, and a set of Imsto caps cost $90, a Cherry MX board with a set of caps that are-not-as-good as Realforce caps cost around $190, which isn't that far from a typical Realforce board.
Post by: xtrafrood on Mon, 14 March 2016, 03:23:36
People keep bringing up the prices of a typical Realforce/HHKB board, but they almost always forget about the dye-sub PBT caps that they come with. They are far better than the other dye-sub PBT keycaps I bought from Imsto, which cost $90.If you are comparing Realforce to MX keysets you will see some variances in kerning, but don't let that scale your opinion. Realforce delivers! Cherry Mx is Digiorno! I'm kidding of course, it's all relative.
So when you consider a typical Cherry MX board costs around $100, and a set of Imsto caps cost $90, a Cherry MX board with a set of caps that are-not-as-good as Realforce caps cost around $190, which isn't that far from a typical Realforce board.
Post by: jerue on Mon, 14 March 2016, 15:04:29
Post by: derb2k2 on Mon, 14 March 2016, 15:39:26
People keep bringing up the prices of a typical Realforce/HHKB board, but they almost always forget about the dye-sub PBT caps that they come with. They are far better than the other dye-sub PBT keycaps I bought from Imsto, which cost $90.
So when you consider a typical Cherry MX board costs around $100, and a set of Imsto caps cost $90, a Cherry MX board with a set of caps that are-not-as-good as Realforce caps cost around $190, which isn't that far from a typical Realforce board.
I completely agree with this. The Realforce/HHKB dyesubs are seriously one of, if not the best caps around. Although I would say that they could be a little thicker, the texture and overall quality is up there.
Post by: robbles on Mon, 14 March 2016, 16:14:45
Post by: robbles on Mon, 14 March 2016, 16:18:46
People keep bringing up the prices of a typical Realforce/HHKB board, but they almost always forget about the dye-sub PBT caps that they come with. They are far better than the other dye-sub PBT keycaps I bought from Imsto, which cost $90.
So when you consider a typical Cherry MX board costs around $100, and a set of Imsto caps cost $90, a Cherry MX board with a set of caps that are-not-as-good as Realforce caps cost around $190, which isn't that far from a typical Realforce board.
This is so true. Even the cost of a Pok3r and a set of Granite would cost you the price of a HHKB. I mean, yeah you could get an MX board for under $100, but the phrase "you get what you pay for" holds pretty true in the keyboard world.
Post by: Lurch on Mon, 14 March 2016, 16:37:18
model f > topre > blue alps > model m > orange/salmon alps > 65g zealios > 62g blues
imo, of course. :thumb:
More
SSSSSIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKKEE!!!!!
MODEL F #1
it's close though, i still love the heck out of topre
MODEL F #1
it's close though, i still love the heck out of topre
Post by: chyros on Mon, 14 March 2016, 16:40:56
They're nice, yeah, but compared to other PBT dyesubs they're not that great, arguably even somewhat lacking :/ .People keep bringing up the prices of a typical Realforce/HHKB board, but they almost always forget about the dye-sub PBT caps that they come with. They are far better than the other dye-sub PBT keycaps I bought from Imsto, which cost $90.
So when you consider a typical Cherry MX board costs around $100, and a set of Imsto caps cost $90, a Cherry MX board with a set of caps that are-not-as-good as Realforce caps cost around $190, which isn't that far from a typical Realforce board.
I completely agree with this. The Realforce/HHKB dyesubs are seriously one of, if not the best caps around. Although I would say that they could be a little thicker, the texture and overall quality is up there.
Post by: fuzzybaffy on Mon, 14 March 2016, 17:09:22
Post by: robbles on Mon, 14 March 2016, 17:13:06
Which PBT dye-subs are you talking about, chyros? Because I have a set of PBT dye-subs from Imsto which cost $90, and the Topre ones are much better. The plastic is so soft on the Imstos that my keypullers leave indents on them.They are probably referring to thickness. But more thick does not always equal more quality. Insert whatever joke you like here ;)
The texture, shape and profile are unmatched. The only other caps I've tried that come close are the dye subs that come on Varmilo boards, surprisingly. But I haven't tried too many caps so I'm no authority on the matter.
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Mon, 14 March 2016, 17:15:43
55g Realforce and a PBT spacebar. It's all you need. No need to look past anything, unless you want to get into ergonomics- then just get a uTRON ^_^
After going through
Cherry MX, Blues,Greens,Browns,Reds,Clears
Kailh Blues,Browns
Matias Quiet Clicks
Having discovered i loved 55g Topre so much "That's it then?" was more a sigh of relief from constant board buying. All i want now is perhaps an Artisan for my ESC key and either a HHKB for travel or a RF in white to polar opposite my black one. No interest in the Novatouch/Type Heaven. I'm glad i can finally start selling some of my boards that have been in boxes for months to reinvest the funds lol.
Post by: LXXXIX on Mon, 14 March 2016, 18:35:37
55g RF and HHKB are topre.finally something else demik and I believe in
Everything else is "topre"
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Mon, 14 March 2016, 19:00:45
Post by: demik on Mon, 14 March 2016, 19:03:04
55g RF and HHKB are topre.finally something else demik and I believe in
Everything else is "topre"
Hip hop and topre, we don't need anything else bruh.
Post by: Rad on Mon, 14 March 2016, 19:29:06
Post by: knguyen553 on Tue, 15 March 2016, 00:38:28
Post by: steelcity on Fri, 18 March 2016, 10:46:39
Post by: apolotary on Fri, 18 March 2016, 11:22:41
Korean custom with super-smooth linear switches (typing on one!)
68-key layout keyboard with RGB backlighting
60% keyboard with white or blue complicated alps and a metallic case, and maybe RGB backlighting?
Post by: steelcity on Fri, 18 March 2016, 14:13:19
Post by: quasistellar on Fri, 18 March 2016, 14:54:22
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Fri, 18 March 2016, 15:09:18
In my opinion, it's Topre all the way for a work keyboard. They just have the perfect feel for comfortable, quiet typing. I just wish they weren't so expensive, but at least they feel expensive when you type on them.
Iv'e honestly come to even prefer mine for leisure like gaming or casual surfing...it's just that much more comfortable to type on. I am keeping one of my MX Brown boards but aside from that i'm selling off the remaining 6-7 boards i have left and going full on Topre.
Post by: Macsmasher on Fri, 18 March 2016, 18:20:05
Topre is my end game keyboard.
Post by: apolotary on Fri, 18 March 2016, 18:35:48
I've owned and used many Cherry and BS boards over the years. I've never tried Alps to my knowledge. However, after finding Topre, I stopped looking. There's nothing missing for me that another switch type could offer. People say Alps is close to Topre. But I already have four Topre boards so what's the point of trying Alps?
Topre is my end game keyboard.
White ALPS is the best clicky switch all around imo
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Fri, 18 March 2016, 18:46:57
I've owned and used many Cherry and BS boards over the years. I've never tried Alps to my knowledge. However, after finding Topre, I stopped looking. There's nothing missing for me that another switch type could offer. People say Alps is close to Topre. But I already have four Topre boards so what's the point of trying Alps?
Topre is my end game keyboard.
Alps are great they really are, but Alps and Topre are significantly different IMO and if you love Topre you may not even like Alps.
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 19 March 2016, 04:38:00
I've owned and used many Cherry and BS boards over the years. I've never tried Alps to my knowledge. However, after finding Topre, I stopped looking. There's nothing missing for me that another switch type could offer. People say Alps is close to Topre. But I already have four Topre boards so what's the point of trying Alps?Alps still wins :))
Topre is my end game keyboard.
Post by: absyrd on Sat, 19 March 2016, 04:43:58
I don't buy keysets as I'm very happy with the look and feel of the stock HHKB keys.
Just because I've found my endgame board doesn't mean I quit the hobby, though. I really enjoy seeing all the crazy **** people come up with on here. I've even received loaner boards for cost of shipping to see if I can be converted back to cherry or ALPS. Didn't work. One day I'll finally make it to one of these meet-ups and try a wide range again and see if that gets me going in another direction.
Post by: piemancoder on Sat, 19 March 2016, 17:07:35
White ALPS is the best clicky switch all around imo
I would go with a Model M for best all-around. Very easy to find, compatible with PS/2 (USB if you want to go with a Unicomp), relatively cheap, and best of all, very clicky. A Model F might have better sound, but it's not as good in the other points.
Post by: Macsmasher on Sun, 20 March 2016, 15:45:46
I've owned and used many Cherry and BS boards over the years. I've never tried Alps to my knowledge. However, after finding Topre, I stopped looking. There's nothing missing for me that another switch type could offer. People say Alps is close to Topre. But I already have four Topre boards so what's the point of trying Alps?
Topre is my end game keyboard.
White ALPS is the best clicky switch all around imo
Thanks for sharing that video. Now I know I'll never buy an Alps keyboard. That was the most annoying, high-pitched, harsh sounding keyboard switch on the planet. It was like fingernails on a chalkboard. Obviously, beauty is in the ear of the beholder, but I would never subject myself or anyone around me to that. It was like a whining, screaming kid at the next table when you're trying to eat at a nice restaurant.
Post by: piemancoder on Sun, 20 March 2016, 16:40:42
I've owned and used many Cherry and BS boards over the years. I've never tried Alps to my knowledge. However, after finding Topre, I stopped looking. There's nothing missing for me that another switch type could offer. People say Alps is close to Topre. But I already have four Topre boards so what's the point of trying Alps?
Topre is my end game keyboard.
White ALPS is the best clicky switch all around imo
Thanks for sharing that video. Now I know I'll never buy an Alps keyboard. That was the most annoying, high-pitched, harsh sounding keyboard switch on the planet. It was like fingernails on a chalkboard. Obviously, beauty is in the ear of the beholder, but I would never subject myself or anyone around me to that. It was like a whining, screaming kid at the next table when you're trying to eat at a nice restaurant.
It was probably just the mic quality. This is why I don't like using a video to see what a keyboard sounds like.
Post by: ander on Sun, 20 March 2016, 19:11:11
It seems safe to say this: It's fun to try them all, and to make up our own minds.
Are Topre boards really worth so much dough? Here's how I see it (ooh, a list):
- It's a unique technology that's been licensed out only a couple of times—e.g. for some oddball vintagey boards like Sony editing boards (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79238.0), and the less-than-positively-reviewed CM Storm Novatouch (http://). So if you want a good, standard-layout Topre board, you pretty much have to pay Topre's prices.
- They're capacitive switches—they don't rely on physical contact to actuate. This has inherently high geek appeal.
- They have their own sound (thock, thock).
- Lots of people say they're the "best" boards they've tried. Again, that's subjective, but if those people want their "best" boards, they must pay whatever they cost.
But there's also a psychological marketing technique called premium pricing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premium_pricing). It exploits an odd aspect of human nature: If you price something unusually high, many people assume it means the product must be that much better than similar, lower-priced products—whether it actually is or not.
Consider the prices at Clicky Keyboards (http://clickykeyboards.com/). Is a 1391401—the most common IBM Model M—"worth" $200, even if it has been cleaned and its broken rivets replaced? After all, you can get one just like that on eBay for half as much. And yet, CK sells keyboards. Because they're in great shape, certainly, but also because those prices make people feel like they're getting something more. (And indeed, if someone pays $200 for a Model M, it is worth that much to them.)
I don't know if Topre uses premium pricing. But Topres aren't indisputably "better" than other boards; many people try them and go "meh", or consider them as good as, but not superior to, other MKs. So it's entirely possible Topre uses their pricing to influence people's perceptions of their quality.
Post by: Macsmasher on Sun, 20 March 2016, 19:39:58
Claiming that Topre is "better" than Alps, or vice versa, is like claiming one ice-cream flavour is "better" than another—it's just a personal preference.
It seems safe to say this: It's fun to try them all, and to make up our own minds.
Are Topre boards really worth so much dough? Here's how I see it (ooh, a list):
- It's a unique technology that's been licensed out only a couple of times—e.g. for some oddball vintagey boards like Sony editing boards (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79238.0), and the less-than-positively-reviewed CM Storm Novatouch (http://). So if you want a good, standard-layout Topre board, you pretty much have to pay Topre's prices.
- They're capacitive switches—they don't rely on physical contact to actuate. This has inherently high geek appeal.
- They have their own sound (thock, thock).
So where do the prices come from? Do Topre boards actually cost more to produce than other boards? Or does Topre genuinely feel their technology is so superior it's worth the premium? One or both, possibly.
- Lots of people say they're the "best" boards they've tried. Again, that's subjective, but if those people want their "best" boards, they must pay whatever they cost.
But there's also a psychological marketing technique called premium pricing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premium_pricing). It exploits an odd aspect of human nature: If you price something unusually high, many people assume it means the product must be that much better than similar, lower-priced products—whether it actually is or not.
Consider the prices at Clicky Keyboards (http://clickykeyboards.com/). Is a 1391401—the most common IBM Model M—"worth" $200, even if it has been cleaned and its broken rivets replaced? After all, you can get one just like that on eBay for half as much. And yet, CK sells keyboards. Because they're in great shape, certainly, but also because those prices make people feel like they're getting something more. (And indeed, if someone pays $200 for a Model M, it is worth that much to them.)
I don't know if Topre uses premium pricing. But Topres aren't indisputably "better" than other boards; many people try them and go "meh", or consider them as good as, but not superior to, other MKs. So it's entirely possible Topre uses their pricing to influence people's perceptions of their quality.
It's so tiring hearing the "Topre rips us off" montra. Nobody says Filco rips you off. Yet their boards with ABS caps and Cherry switches cost $140+, AND you have to buy PBT caps if you want a nice board. So you're within $30 of a Topre board AND they're not made in Japan. Further, if you work on your keyboard, what's $30? If you have to complain about that, you might as well stay with your Dell keyboard.
Post by: demik on Sun, 20 March 2016, 23:18:53
I've owned many keyboards with different switches in many layouts. Bought my wife a hhkb. "Borrowed" it. Fell in love. Got another one. Quit buying keyboards.
I don't buy keysets as I'm very happy with the look and feel of the stock HHKB keys.
Just because I've found my endgame board doesn't mean I quit the hobby, though. I really enjoy seeing all the crazy **** people come up with on here. I've even received loaner boards for cost of shipping to see if I can be converted back to cherry or ALPS. Didn't work. One day I'll finally make it to one of these meet-ups and try a wide range again and see if that gets me going in another direction.
all of this.
i just haven't left gh because i really like this place and the people. but i have no desire to continue hunting and spending money on other switches when my hhkb is 99% perfect for me.
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Mon, 21 March 2016, 03:10:44
I've owned many keyboards with different switches in many layouts. Bought my wife a hhkb. "Borrowed" it. Fell in love. Got another one. Quit buying keyboards.
I don't buy keysets as I'm very happy with the look and feel of the stock HHKB keys.
Just because I've found my endgame board doesn't mean I quit the hobby, though. I really enjoy seeing all the crazy **** people come up with on here. I've even received loaner boards for cost of shipping to see if I can be converted back to cherry or ALPS. Didn't work. One day I'll finally make it to one of these meet-ups and try a wide range again and see if that gets me going in another direction.
all of this.
i just haven't left gh because i really like this place and the people. but i have no desire to continue hunting and spending money on other switches when my hhkb is 99% perfect for me.
Given how insanely high you praise the HHKB what is the 1% that isn't perfect?
Post by: kasakka on Mon, 21 March 2016, 04:44:51
The black model with almost unreadable legends looks cool but isn't that practical to me. I was excited when they announced the RGB models but now almost a year later those still seem to be nowhere to be found.
I've been waiting for a long time for someone to release affordable MX sliders for Topres so I can get some good looking keycaps since everything released for the Topre stem is not that good looking and availability is even more miserable than with some MX keysets. I'm considering selling mine because I'd like a TKL or smaller, maybe grabbing a Novatouch and possibly a GMK Cyan keyset.
The Topre keys feel terrific though and have a very satisfying sound. I've only got another keyboard with MX Reds but is there any MX switch that is somewhat similar to Topre? I know they work completely differently so I'm thinking more in the terms of feel.
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 21 March 2016, 05:03:41
I've owned many keyboards with different switches in many layouts. Bought my wife a hhkb. "Borrowed" it. Fell in love. Got another one. Quit buying keyboards.
I don't buy keysets as I'm very happy with the look and feel of the stock HHKB keys.
Just because I've found my endgame board doesn't mean I quit the hobby, though. I really enjoy seeing all the crazy **** people come up with on here. I've even received loaner boards for cost of shipping to see if I can be converted back to cherry or ALPS. Didn't work. One day I'll finally make it to one of these meet-ups and try a wide range again and see if that gets me going in another direction.
all of this.
i just haven't left gh because i really like this place and the people. but i have no desire to continue hunting and spending money on other switches when my hhkb is 99% perfect for me.
Given how insanely high you praise the HHKB what is the 1% that isn't perfect?
Only 45g. Needs an extra 10g, right?
Post by: 1391406 on Mon, 21 March 2016, 06:43:52
I've only got another keyboard with MX Reds but is there any MX switch that is somewhat similar to Topre?
Other than Reds? Not in my opinion. Aside from MX though, Orange Alps are the closest I've found.
Post by: Polymer on Mon, 21 March 2016, 07:54:44
What annoys me isn't really the Topre keyboards themselves (apart from that large unnecessary top portion that takes space) but the options available. I currently have a white Realforce 105 mainly because I found one used cheap but also because it was the only model that I can actually see if the lights are down.
The black model with almost unreadable legends looks cool but isn't that practical to me. I was excited when they announced the RGB models but now almost a year later those still seem to be nowhere to be found.
I've been waiting for a long time for someone to release affordable MX sliders for Topres so I can get some good looking keycaps since everything released for the Topre stem is not that good looking and availability is even more miserable than with some MX keysets. I'm considering selling mine because I'd like a TKL or smaller, maybe grabbing a Novatouch and possibly a GMK Cyan keyset.
The Topre keys feel terrific though and have a very satisfying sound. I've only got another keyboard with MX Reds but is there any MX switch that is somewhat similar to Topre? I know they work completely differently so I'm thinking more in the terms of feel.
Why don't you get a LED Royal Kludge? MX keycaps with LED and a similar feel to Topre...
I do agree that there aren't a lot of options out there to bling out your Topre keyboard...but the keycaps are some of the best out there...except for some of the quirky ones..the normal Alphas are really excellent...
You might want to consider not having to look at your keyboard while typing as well...I don't really think that is the fault of the keyboard...
Post by: demik on Mon, 21 March 2016, 09:17:35
55g plate mounted switches + sturdier case would give it that 1% it needs.I've owned many keyboards with different switches in many layouts. Bought my wife a hhkb. "Borrowed" it. Fell in love. Got another one. Quit buying keyboards.
I don't buy keysets as I'm very happy with the look and feel of the stock HHKB keys.
Just because I've found my endgame board doesn't mean I quit the hobby, though. I really enjoy seeing all the crazy **** people come up with on here. I've even received loaner boards for cost of shipping to see if I can be converted back to cherry or ALPS. Didn't work. One day I'll finally make it to one of these meet-ups and try a wide range again and see if that gets me going in another direction.
all of this.
i just haven't left gh because i really like this place and the people. but i have no desire to continue hunting and spending money on other switches when my hhkb is 99% perfect for me.
Given how insanely high you praise the HHKB what is the 1% that isn't perfect?
Post by: Polymer on Mon, 21 March 2016, 09:56:12
55g plate mounted switches + sturdier case would give it that 1% it needs.I've owned many keyboards with different switches in many layouts. Bought my wife a hhkb. "Borrowed" it. Fell in love. Got another one. Quit buying keyboards.
I don't buy keysets as I'm very happy with the look and feel of the stock HHKB keys.
Just because I've found my endgame board doesn't mean I quit the hobby, though. I really enjoy seeing all the crazy **** people come up with on here. I've even received loaner boards for cost of shipping to see if I can be converted back to cherry or ALPS. Didn't work. One day I'll finally make it to one of these meet-ups and try a wide range again and see if that gets me going in another direction.
all of this.
i just haven't left gh because i really like this place and the people. but i have no desire to continue hunting and spending money on other switches when my hhkb is 99% perfect for me.
Given how insanely high you praise the HHKB what is the 1% that isn't perfect?
Hell no...Going plate mounted would completely ruin the board as it is...I mean if that is all you want, the 660c is probably closer to your ideal...
Post by: demik on Mon, 21 March 2016, 10:17:14
Don't you ever recommend that piece of **** board to me.55g plate mounted switches + sturdier case would give it that 1% it needs.I've owned many keyboards with different switches in many layouts. Bought my wife a hhkb. "Borrowed" it. Fell in love. Got another one. Quit buying keyboards.
I don't buy keysets as I'm very happy with the look and feel of the stock HHKB keys.
Just because I've found my endgame board doesn't mean I quit the hobby, though. I really enjoy seeing all the crazy **** people come up with on here. I've even received loaner boards for cost of shipping to see if I can be converted back to cherry or ALPS. Didn't work. One day I'll finally make it to one of these meet-ups and try a wide range again and see if that gets me going in another direction.
all of this.
i just haven't left gh because i really like this place and the people. but i have no desire to continue hunting and spending money on other switches when my hhkb is 99% perfect for me.
Given how insanely high you praise the HHKB what is the 1% that isn't perfect?
Hell no...Going plate mounted would completely ruin the board as it is...I mean if that is all you want, the 660c is probably closer to your ideal...
Post by: piemancoder on Mon, 21 March 2016, 20:53:28
Don't you ever recommend that piece of **** board to me.55g plate mounted switches + sturdier case would give it that 1% it needs.I've owned many keyboards with different switches in many layouts. Bought my wife a hhkb. "Borrowed" it. Fell in love. Got another one. Quit buying keyboards.
I don't buy keysets as I'm very happy with the look and feel of the stock HHKB keys.
Just because I've found my endgame board doesn't mean I quit the hobby, though. I really enjoy seeing all the crazy **** people come up with on here. I've even received loaner boards for cost of shipping to see if I can be converted back to cherry or ALPS. Didn't work. One day I'll finally make it to one of these meet-ups and try a wide range again and see if that gets me going in another direction.
all of this.
i just haven't left gh because i really like this place and the people. but i have no desire to continue hunting and spending money on other switches when my hhkb is 99% perfect for me.
Given how insanely high you praise the HHKB what is the 1% that isn't perfect?
Hell no...Going plate mounted would completely ruin the board as it is...I mean if that is all you want, the 660c is probably closer to your ideal...
What about a Novatouch? :p
Post by: digi on Mon, 21 March 2016, 21:31:16
Hell no...Going plate mounted would completely ruin the board as it is...I mean if that is all you want, the 660c is probably closer to your ideal...Don't you ever recommend that piece of **** board to me.
Best read of the day!! :))
Post by: demik on Mon, 21 March 2016, 22:05:07
Don't you ever recommend that piece of **** board to me.55g plate mounted switches + sturdier case would give it that 1% it needs.I've owned many keyboards with different switches in many layouts. Bought my wife a hhkb. "Borrowed" it. Fell in love. Got another one. Quit buying keyboards.
I don't buy keysets as I'm very happy with the look and feel of the stock HHKB keys.
Just because I've found my endgame board doesn't mean I quit the hobby, though. I really enjoy seeing all the crazy **** people come up with on here. I've even received loaner boards for cost of shipping to see if I can be converted back to cherry or ALPS. Didn't work. One day I'll finally make it to one of these meet-ups and try a wide range again and see if that gets me going in another direction.
all of this.
i just haven't left gh because i really like this place and the people. but i have no desire to continue hunting and spending money on other switches when my hhkb is 99% perfect for me.
Given how insanely high you praise the HHKB what is the 1% that isn't perfect?
Hell no...Going plate mounted would completely ruin the board as it is...I mean if that is all you want, the 660c is probably closer to your ideal...
What about a Novatouch? :p
never heard of it
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 21 March 2016, 23:45:40
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 22 March 2016, 05:04:20
usually buckling springs and topre are at the tops of peoples favorite list.
And are at fairly opposite ends of the keyboard spectrum in many ways!
Post by: FLFisherman on Tue, 22 March 2016, 07:24:07
usually buckling springs and topre are at the tops of peoples favorite list.
And are at fairly opposite ends of the keyboard spectrum in many ways!
Has there been a poll recently for favorite switch type? I think we would see Zealios switches near the top as well.
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Tue, 22 March 2016, 08:30:20
Still i'm sure eventually i will pull the trigger on a bolt modded clean Model M one of these days,i was considering a Unicomp but i have heard more negative than positive.
Post by: quasistellar on Tue, 22 March 2016, 10:42:06
What annoys me isn't really the Topre keyboards themselves (apart from that large unnecessary top portion that takes space) but the options available. I currently have a white Realforce 105 mainly because I found one used cheap but also because it was the only model that I can actually see if the lights are down.
The black model with almost unreadable legends looks cool but isn't that practical to me. I was excited when they announced the RGB models but now almost a year later those still seem to be nowhere to be found.
I've been waiting for a long time for someone to release affordable MX sliders for Topres so I can get some good looking keycaps since everything released for the Topre stem is not that good looking and availability is even more miserable than with some MX keysets. I'm considering selling mine because I'd like a TKL or smaller, maybe grabbing a Novatouch and possibly a GMK Cyan keyset.
The Topre keys feel terrific though and have a very satisfying sound. I've only got another keyboard with MX Reds but is there any MX switch that is somewhat similar to Topre? I know they work completely differently so I'm thinking more in the terms of feel.
Get a Novatouch. Silence it with hyperaphere's rings. It's amazing. SA profile on Topre? Yep. Just beware of Cherry profile, because it actually bottoms out on the switch housings. I haven't checked other manufacturers, but I know Vortex does.
One of these days I'm going to try an hhkb. I really use the nav cluster a ton though. I look at lots of PDF files and web browsing is also made quicker with home and end keys. Arrow keys I can do without, oddly.
Post by: Vittra on Tue, 22 March 2016, 10:55:15
What annoys me isn't really the Topre keyboards themselves (apart from that large unnecessary top portion that takes space) but the options available. I currently have a white Realforce 105 mainly because I found one used cheap but also because it was the only model that I can actually see if the lights are down.
The black model with almost unreadable legends looks cool but isn't that practical to me. I was excited when they announced the RGB models but now almost a year later those still seem to be nowhere to be found.
I've been waiting for a long time for someone to release affordable MX sliders for Topres so I can get some good looking keycaps since everything released for the Topre stem is not that good looking and availability is even more miserable than with some MX keysets. I'm considering selling mine because I'd like a TKL or smaller, maybe grabbing a Novatouch and possibly a GMK Cyan keyset.
The Topre keys feel terrific though and have a very satisfying sound. I've only got another keyboard with MX Reds but is there any MX switch that is somewhat similar to Topre? I know they work completely differently so I'm thinking more in the terms of feel.
The Type Heaven RGB models will be released at Computex 2016.
Post by: keshley on Tue, 22 March 2016, 12:32:23
Just beware of Cherry profile, because it actually bottoms out on the switch housings. I haven't checked other manufacturers, but I know Vortex does.
This is mostly true with thicker keycaps. I don't recall my DCS keycaps bottoming out. If you flip over Topre and thick Cherry keycaps, the Topre's are thinner. On the thicker Cherry Profile keycaps, the outer wall hits the Topre housing, but usually only on the shorter caps due to the angle.
IMO, the Novatouch only shines when you dump the crappy CM plastic case. It feels better than both my RF boards now that it's in an alu case.
In regards to the people talking about the high price and liking it... that's called buyer's remorse. But food for thought:
HHKB costs approximately 220 USD. Very solid board. RF87U costs around the same, bit more. Very solid board. Those coveted KMACs, Duckys, LZs? Well over 400 each, some even in the 1000+ range now. Not even an 87U with the now hard to find Digilog case hits those numbers. Not to mention all the plastic MX based boards that sell for close to 200.
Post by: kasakka on Wed, 23 March 2016, 05:31:34
IMO, the Novatouch only shines when you dump the crappy CM plastic case. It feels better than both my RF boards now that it's in an alu case.
How does the alu case change the feel? I'm now thinking of getting the Novatouch to replace my full size Realforce.
Post by: mrlooolz on Wed, 23 March 2016, 08:11:00
Post by: mobbo on Wed, 23 March 2016, 08:25:13
this post makes want to jump to a RF full 55g and an HHKB, but what do i do with all the MX artisans :eek:
sliders.
Post by: mrlooolz on Wed, 23 March 2016, 08:26:57
I am relatively new. You telling me to make my artisans into little mini burgers?this post makes want to jump to a RF full 55g and an HHKB, but what do i do with all the MX artisans :eek:
sliders.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 23 March 2016, 08:28:26
You can get MX keycap compatible Topre sliders, the slider is the thing the keycaps attach to that slides up and down.I am relatively new. You telling me to make my artisans into little mini burgers?this post makes want to jump to a RF full 55g and an HHKB, but what do i do with all the MX artisans :eek:
sliders.
But some artisans won't fit that either depending on stem design.
Post by: mrlooolz on Wed, 23 March 2016, 09:17:18
Ohhhh okay, didn't know about theseYou can get MX keycap compatible Topre sliders, the slider is the thing the keycaps attach to that slides up and down.I am relatively new. You telling me to make my artisans into little mini burgers?this post makes want to jump to a RF full 55g and an HHKB, but what do i do with all the MX artisans :eek:
sliders.
But some artisans won't fit that either depending on stem design.
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 23 March 2016, 10:03:39
When in doubt, make everything in to little mini burgers. EVERYTHING ;) :thumb:I am relatively new. You telling me to make my artisans into little mini burgers?this post makes want to jump to a RF full 55g and an HHKB, but what do i do with all the MX artisans :eek:
sliders.
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 24 March 2016, 05:39:18
usually buckling springs and topre are at the tops of peoples favorite list.
And are at fairly opposite ends of the keyboard spectrum in many ways!
Has there been a poll recently for favorite switch type? I think we would see Zealios switches near the top as well.
Probably not recently, but there have been polls in the past.
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 26 March 2016, 23:37:36
Post by: iLLucionist on Sun, 27 March 2016, 07:27:05
Honestly, Clears and 55g Topre is close for me. Depends on whether I prefer smoothness or whether I'm in my nostalgia "mechanical IBM was soo good" mode, for which I prefer clears.
Post by: callmejag on Sun, 27 March 2016, 17:01:45
I switch between Clears and Topre 55g and Topre 45g HHKB.I feel the same way - I love both Topre and MX Clears. They have a very different feel and appeal. I switch between my 55g HHKB and POK3R with Clears every other week.
Honestly, Clears and 55g Topre is close for me. Depends on whether I prefer smoothness or whether I'm in my nostalgia "mechanical IBM was soo good" mode, for which I prefer clears.
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 27 March 2016, 19:08:56
I switch between Clears and Topre 55g and Topre 45g HHKB.
Honestly, Clears and 55g Topre is close for me. Depends on whether I prefer smoothness or whether I'm in my nostalgia "mechanical IBM was soo good" mode, for which I prefer clears.
This is encouraging! I like clears, and have been thinking about a 55g RealForce board for a while.
I switch between Clears and Topre 55g and Topre 45g HHKB.I feel the same way - I love both Topre and MX Clears. They have a very different feel and appeal. I switch between my 55g HHKB and POK3R with Clears every other week.
Honestly, Clears and 55g Topre is close for me. Depends on whether I prefer smoothness or whether I'm in my nostalgia "mechanical IBM was soo good" mode, for which I prefer clears.
Welcome to Geekhack!
Did you mod the HHKB yourself?
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 27 March 2016, 19:27:43
One of the great things about Realforce and HHKB is the excellent dye-sublimated PBT keycaps that are designed to be an integral part of the Topre switches. With Cherry mx, there can be mismatches of weight, fit, and height that can exert marked changes in the way the keyboard sounds and feels.
Topre-switch keyboards are among my favorites, but I like to change from time to time to other notable switches, such as IBM Model F and various Alps or Alps-inspired switches. I am typing this on a KBP V60 with Matias-Click switches and enjoying it very much.
In addition, stock Topre was not the end-game for me. I have found that even Topre can be improved by silencing and judicious lubing.
So, you are getting there, but the game is never quite over.
Post by: iLLucionist on Sun, 27 March 2016, 19:30:47
The board I keep returning to is my silenced and lubed HHKB Pro 2. I say "returning" because I keep other boards in my rotation just to reconfirm my preference for Topre along with the 60% form factor and HHKB layout.
One of the great things about Realforce and HHKB is the excellent dye-sublimated PBT keycaps that are designed to be an integral part of the Topre switches. With Cherry mx, there can be mismatches of weight, fit, and height that can exert marked changes in the way the keyboard sounds and feels.
Topre-switch keyboards are among my favorites, but I like to change from time to time to other notable switches, such as IBM Model F and various Alps or Alps-inspired switches. I am typing this on a KBP V60 with Matias-Click switches and enjoying it very much.
In addition, stock Topre was not the end-game for me. I have found that even Topre can be improved by silencing and judicious lubing.
So, you are getting there, but the game is never quite over.
How did you silence it?
Post by: 1391406 on Sun, 27 March 2016, 20:56:58
So, you are getting there, but the game is never quite over.
I haven't had the slightest itch to try any of my other boards since using the RF 104U Silent, so I feel like it is for me. I wouldn't mind some keycap variations, but this may well be the end game board for me.
Post by: phoible on Mon, 28 March 2016, 12:22:30
The Novatouch is quieter and smoother. The v80 MTS is significantly more tactile, and a tiny bit louder.
For some reason, the rebound action on the v80 feels a bit more natural (maybe since I silenced the Novatouch upstroke, there's too little feedback).
If the v80-MTS had the keycaps I want on it (blank black PBT), I would be using it a lot more. Overall, I'm pretty happy with both boards. Unfortunately, I can only use one board at once. Well, one at home and one at work.
I don't think that there is an endgame board. I have 5 keyboards right now, and each has something special about it. I'm currently working on an ALPS64 with the keycaps and switches from an old AEKII (Cream ALPS), and I have an Ergodox Infinity kit with Quiet Clicks on order.
Post by: 1391406 on Tue, 29 March 2016, 10:58:45
I don't think that there is an endgame board.
Maybe not for you.
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 31 March 2016, 10:22:21
@phoible: Is your V80-MTS with the Click or Quiet variety of the Matias switch? I have two V60-MTS boards, one with Quiet and the other with Click. I like both of them, but I prefer the Click. Either way, the tactility of Matias switches is much more satisfying to me than any Cherry mx switch. Matias is certainly different from Topre. I would say that Topre is smooth and refined, but Matias is more fun.
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Thu, 31 March 2016, 16:14:08
Post by: digi on Thu, 31 March 2016, 16:17:13
I have to admit, I wanna try it to see what all the hype is about, but I've gotten used to much lighter switches. I'm just not willing to spend $250 to "try it out."
Keep an eye out in the classifieds, you can usually catch an almost new RF 55g for under $200. Then sell all your other ****ty keyboards to help pay for it. :D
Post by: phoible on Fri, 01 April 2016, 00:50:14
[/quote]
I have the Quiet Matias switch on my v80. I've been keeping both that and the Novatouch on my desk and switching back and forth.
Maybe I'll get a Clicky MTS one day (although I have a Unicomp for those times when I need something really clicky).
Post by: grav3serker on Fri, 01 April 2016, 21:53:35
The board I keep returning to is my silenced and lubed HHKB Pro 2. I say "returning" because I keep other boards in my rotation just to reconfirm my preference for Topre along with the 60% form factor and HHKB layout.What do you use to lube the sliders?
One of the great things about Realforce and HHKB is the excellent dye-sublimated PBT keycaps that are designed to be an integral part of the Topre switches. With Cherry mx, there can be mismatches of weight, fit, and height that can exert marked changes in the way the keyboard sounds and feels.
Topre-switch keyboards are among my favorites, but I like to change from time to time to other notable switches, such as IBM Model F and various Alps or Alps-inspired switches. I am typing this on a KBP V60 with Matias-Click switches and enjoying it very much.
In addition, stock Topre was not the end-game for me. I have found that even Topre can be improved by silencing and judicious lubing.
So, you are getting there, but the game is never quite over.
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 01 April 2016, 22:01:56
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 02 April 2016, 07:31:17
I have to admit, I wanna try it to see what all the hype is about, but I've gotten used to much lighter switches. I'm just not willing to spend $250 to "try it out."
I thought the same, but took the jump. Never regretted it, honestly. The only thing that still annoys me, is the margin of variation they tolerate with Topre. For instance, the spacing of the caps on the homerow of my HHKB is not even, I can see it with my bare eyes. And my enter key is way lighter than my other keys on my 87U 55G. But for the rest, I really love it.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 02 April 2016, 07:35:15