Post by: samwisekoi on Mon, 14 March 2016, 12:15:06
Approximate dimensions of the PCB are:
Overall PCB: 20" x 6.75"
Horizontal space between blocks: 0.330"
Vertical space between blocks: 0.75"
Top and Bottom margin: 0.375"
Left Margin: 0.50"
Right Margin: 0.52" (extra .02" required to make the PCB 20" wide.
Block size and space between blocks ARE final. Margins and mounting holes are NOT set and/or final.
Draft PCB layout attached. This has to fit inside whatever case you use.
- Ron | samwisekoi
Post by: samwisekoi on Mon, 14 March 2016, 12:15:19
Hak Foo (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1552)
(http://i.imgur.com/xAOJKjT.jpg)
Data (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=38259)
(http://i.imgur.com/JhJJp4Q.jpg?1)
Spaceman1200 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=48334)
(http://i.imgur.com/kRObxtx.jpg)
samwisekoi (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=22227)
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=80473.0;attach=138802;image)
Did I miss anyone?
- Ron | samwisekoi
Post by: Data on Mon, 14 March 2016, 12:41:46
Any reason you went with .50 padding on the sides and only .375 on the top & bottom?
Post by: samwisekoi on Mon, 14 March 2016, 12:48:58
Nice. 20 inches! She's a beast! :))
Any reason you went with .50 padding on the sides and only .375 on the top & bottom?
Space limitations in the Unicomp PC-122 case. However, I am going to get some plastic cut to the right sizes to check fit. I'd like to have the same margin all around the PCB (well, plus that damn 0.02").
- Ron | samwisekoi
Post by: Data on Mon, 14 March 2016, 12:54:18
Post by: AKmalamute on Tue, 15 March 2016, 19:15:02
So, does anyone make an MX-sized 'plug' in case I wanted to stuff the plate-hole with a blocker? I'm mostly expecting, realistically, to use anything I get from this project without the proper Unicomp case, and just have a bare board screwed to a piece of plywood.
Since that's how I used the two phantoms I built. Minus the plywood.
Edit: oh, is this case-only discussion? I tend to mistrust acrylic by nature but the few I've actually picked up seemed alright. Any suggestions on where to get proper standoffs for a wooden 'sandwich' case?
My feelings (on the case) is it should have one. Probably.
Post by: samwisekoi on Wed, 16 March 2016, 11:31:10
- Ron | samwisekoi
Post by: samwisekoi on Wed, 16 March 2016, 11:57:53
So, I am trying to design one or two near-universal plates to keep costs down. I do not think I can make a plate that supports both the ISO layout of the actual F-122 AND a full ANSI layout at the same time. I do think I can make plates that are flexible within those two major variations. Then an over-plate of Acrylic or other material could be used to block unused positions. For example the arrow block could have a plate with a full 3x3 matrix, and the over-plates could have a full-size opening, an ANSI inverted-T opening, or an F-122 5-key cross opening. That would mean different over-plates (or cases) but common stainless steel plates.
I hope to design plates that support full flat designs; two-bend "caseless" designs, three-bend "caseless" designs, and maybe Unicomp PC-122 adapter plates.
We'll see.
I think I posted a mock-up of a three-bend design, but basically it adds a horizontal top section for the upper bank of switches. Here is another mock-up showing that feature more clearly. (The wood end-plates are just a design concept.)
- Ron | samwisekoi
Post by: njbair on Wed, 16 March 2016, 12:13:39
Post by: AKmalamute on Wed, 16 March 2016, 13:33:26
how does a flat PCB work with a bent case[...]?
That's true ... I was visualizing a bare plate with one bend, myself. And bent the other way...? Then you could just run wires from the floating switches in the upper-function section, to the PCB below.
As pictured, the PCB would need a cut-point to run column wires to reconnect the PCB, which won't work because IIRC the PCB is real heavy with controller connections across that whole swath of bare PCB.
Post by: njbair on Wed, 16 March 2016, 13:38:16
Unless he's adding solder points for ribbon cable headers or something.how does a flat PCB work with a bent case[...]?
That's true ... I was visualizing a bare plate with one bend, myself. And bent the other way...? Then you could just run wires from the floating switches in the upper-function section, to the PCB below.
As pictured, the PCB would need a cut-point to run column wires to reconnect the PCB, which won't work because IIRC the PCB is real heavy with controller connections across that whole swath of bare PCB.
Post by: samwisekoi on Thu, 17 March 2016, 10:57:13
Unless he's adding solder points for ribbon cable headers or something.
That is exactly what I am trying to do. Failing so far, BTW.
- Ron | samwisekoi
Post by: samwisekoi on Sun, 20 March 2016, 19:57:44
I want to carefully draft a design accurate to 0.001" to be certain, and I will post a picture and get a cost estimate.
What this means for the project is that we can have a single plate to reduce the per-plate cost as much as possible.
Details to follow, including cost estimates, rendering(s), and how the same plate can be used for sandwich, caseless, and wood/metal cases.
More when I have more to tell.
- Ron | samwisekoi
Post by: njbair on Mon, 21 March 2016, 08:40:38
Post by: samwisekoi on Tue, 22 March 2016, 13:56:20
Attached is the sandwich or single-bend version of the Universal Plate for the GH-122.2016. It supports all of the possible switch positions except the bonus LH arrow key. In 0.060" T-304 stainless steel, the plate will cost right around $100 cut and deburred. The blue line indicates the dimensions of the PCB. The tiny tick marks on the RH and LH edges are small cuts to align the metal break if you want to bend the PCB. The rectangular opening in the upper left corner is for the indicator LEDs.
The 10 mounting holes are 0.125"/3.175mm, and will allow #6 and 3mm screws or bolts to pass through.
Adding front and rear extensions to create a "bent-plate case" adds $5-10 to the plate. We could add them to all of the plates, but then most people would have to cut them off, and there aren't really any economies of scale as long as we get a minimum of 5 plates per type.
The little brace-bars are only strictly needed for the Enter area, but they add strength to the plate and to any 1x switches used in a 1x/2x position. I can easily remove them by popular demand in some or all of the locations.
I have not shopped around for best pricing, so if anyone has a supplier they want to get a quote from, just ask me and I'll send you a .DXF version for quoting.
FYI to everyone,
- Ron | samwisekoi
Post by: Data on Tue, 22 March 2016, 18:43:53
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 22 March 2016, 22:16:47
(http://i.imgur.com/MmleDYN.png)
It's a switch plate only, to be bent at the top section. It would attach to a bent plate/case via standoffs, and "float" under the top of the case. The outer case would have cutouts large enough for the key blocks, and the outer case would fit into grooves in the wooden side plates. If I knew 3D CAD, I would draw it.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 22 March 2016, 22:28:45
I did this one up a little differently:Why the desire of the larger sized keys on the left? Just something different?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/MmleDYN.png)
It's a switch plate only, to be bent at the top section. It would attach to a bent plate/case via standoffs, and "float" under the top of the case. The outer case would have cutouts large enough for the key blocks, and the outer case would fit into grooves in the wooden side plates. If I knew 3D CAD, I would draw it.
I do like the number pad having full size '+' and enter.
This case you describe sounds interesting.
Post by: njbair on Tue, 22 March 2016, 22:35:35
I did this one up a little differently:JD, you know I'm on board with this case concept, but I think we may need to break the top part out into its own piece. Reason being, it's going to be nearly impossible to perfectly align two layers of bent plates. Even if the math works out, there are too many variables--hole position, bend angle & radius, standoff height, all of which have their own tolerances.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/MmleDYN.png)
It's a switch plate only, to be bent at the top section. It would attach to a bent plate/case via standoffs, and "float" under the top of the case. The outer case would have cutouts large enough for the key blocks, and the outer case would fit into grooves in the wooden side plates. If I knew 3D CAD, I would draw it.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 22 March 2016, 22:58:37
That's how I would design a "universal" plate. All those locations where you can have either one 2.00u key, or two 1.00u keys, can mount either.I did this one up a little differently:Why the desire of the larger sized keys on the left? Just something different?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/MmleDYN.png)
It's a switch plate only, to be bent at the top section. It would attach to a bent plate/case via standoffs, and "float" under the top of the case. The outer case would have cutouts large enough for the key blocks, and the outer case would fit into grooves in the wooden side plates. If I knew 3D CAD, I would draw it.
I do like the number pad having full size '+' and enter.
This case you describe sounds interesting.
Personally, I want to do a block of five 2.00u keys on the left, in the style of the Commodore 64.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 22 March 2016, 23:00:11
Yeah, you're right. Too much could go wrong trying to mate two bent plates and a PCB. Better to make two separate switch plate pieces.I did this one up a little differently:JD, you know I'm on board with this case concept, but I think we may need to break the top part out into its own piece. Reason being, it's going to be nearly impossible to perfectly align two layers of bent plates. Even if the math works out, there are too many variables--hole position, bend angle & radius, standoff height, all of which have their own tolerances.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/MmleDYN.png)
It's a switch plate only, to be bent at the top section. It would attach to a bent plate/case via standoffs, and "float" under the top of the case. The outer case would have cutouts large enough for the key blocks, and the outer case would fit into grooves in the wooden side plates. If I knew 3D CAD, I would draw it.
Post by: AKmalamute on Wed, 23 March 2016, 14:15:29
Samwioski, I'm going to PM you with what all I asked for in my quote so the money can be put in perspective with what else you're looking at with this project.
update: it doesn't look like it'll hit their minimum. Dang; glad I got my cases done back when I did.
Edit again: If we're looking at that many plates, maybe we can work something out? I talked to my shop again, who said the 25 plates (five of which included three bends) fell just short of their minimum (implying we can get just a plate for noticeably less then $20/ea plus double-shipping). He was also afraid their laser machine couldn't cut the switch-top removal tabs, but now that he's said that, I reminded him I've done business with them before, and their machine did just fine at that level of detail.
Post by: 0100010 on Fri, 25 March 2016, 10:20:51
Post by: samwisekoi on Fri, 25 March 2016, 11:24:49
How many plates / PCBs are we expecting to need?
If all of the members who signed up actually pay up, I'll order 30 PCBs.
I think plates are still up in the air.
- Ron | samwisekoi
Post by: Hak Foo on Fri, 25 March 2016, 21:10:54
It would still be dollars ahead if the order bought 50 plates anf threw the unwanted ones away. On a more serious note, I could see some people doubling up on the order to do a conventional plate and a bent-plate-case plate to get us over the $500 minimum order.
Post by: 0100010 on Sat, 26 March 2016, 21:59:56
(http://s18.postimg.org/xg1pmtdc9/010_GH122.png)
Post by: AKmalamute on Sun, 27 March 2016, 00:43:28
Ick.
Post by: 0100010 on Sun, 27 March 2016, 10:39:39
What gets me is you're all assuming costar stabs.
Ick.
Was easier to draw is all. I've got both Cherry and Costar plate mount stabs available
Post by: jdcarpe on Sun, 27 March 2016, 13:07:42
What gets me is you're all assuming costar stabs.Who is this 'all'? I always spec cherry pcb mount.
Ick.
Post by: Hak Foo on Sun, 27 March 2016, 18:16:42
With some of the stuff samwisekoi showed, We can combine a lot of the split variations (ANSI vs. ISO, for example). I can picture MAYBE four variations-- 1.25 and 1.5 modifiers, and 12 versus 15 function keys.
It may even be possible to make a single plate that cover them all with a "you have to snip A, B, and C yourself for 1.25 mods, and D and E for 1.5" sort of limitation.
Post by: AKmalamute on Tue, 29 March 2016, 12:43:13
I've already emailed what details I was given to samwioski. I'm not right now, in a place where I can run a separate GB for these things, but if we're still floundering for plates in May, maybe I'll pick up the torch.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 29 March 2016, 12:46:25
I got a quote from the shop around here. Looks like a full sandwich case for $60, bent-plate case for around $70, all plus shipping.
I've already emailed what details I was given to samwioski. I'm not right now, in a place where I can run a separate GB for these things, but if we're still floundering for plates in May, maybe I'll pick up the torch.
I'm planning on running a buy for my Universal 104/108/87 plates in May. Maybe we can combine forces. :)
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Thu, 31 March 2016, 11:52:42
I got a quote from the shop around here. Looks like a full sandwich case for $60, bent-plate case for around $70, all plus shipping.
I've already emailed what details I was given to samwioski. I'm not right now, in a place where I can run a separate GB for these things, but if we're still floundering for plates in May, maybe I'll pick up the torch.
I'm planning on running a buy for my Universal 104/108/87 plates in May. Maybe we can combine forces. :)
I would be in for a case for the 122!
Post by: 0100010 on Sun, 03 April 2016, 16:55:15
Just want to be sure my plate drawing matches the PCB.
Post by: samwisekoi on Mon, 04 April 2016, 15:03:13
The plate drawings here have 10 screw holes. In the GH-122 PCB GB thread, looks like the PCB also has 10 holes, but not in the same positions in this thread // the GB thread also only makes mention of 8 screw holes.
Just want to be sure my plate drawing matches the PCB.
I am going to update the PCB drawing based on what I actually ordered.
- Ron | samwisekoi
Post by: Data on Wed, 20 April 2016, 15:05:57
What do people prefer for feet/bumpers? I've used these in the past on my Phantom builds but they're not ideal.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#9309k19/=122g25d
Post by: Hak Foo on Sun, 24 April 2016, 13:56:32
Build a case like those cheap "DIY picture frame" kits, but with upgrades for durability.
Four pieces of stiff aluminium or steel channel, with a gap just thick enough to slide the PCB in.
Mitre cut 45 degree angles at each end. A groove cut into the "inside" of ieach piece, and a few drilled-and-tapped holes The four pieces fit around the PCB, and then you can bolt them together
Stuff like http://www.rpvisuals.com/rp_frames for example
The one issue I see is that you'd probably have to cut a hole for the micro-USB port... and I'm not sure if there will be enough clearance on all sides because the Teensy appears to be mounted at the very edge of the PCB. The "top" component would have to be cut up quite a bit, which may compromise stiffness.
I'm thinking this will provide a lot of the rigidity of plate mount, without the cost and endless battles over layout involved with getting actual plates made.
Post by: Data on Wed, 27 April 2016, 13:05:03
Post by: Hak Foo on Thu, 26 May 2016, 00:44:06
Take a block of wood.
Mill out depressions in the key blocks to clear the protrusions on the PCB bottom (switch tips, stabilizers, solder blobs)
Bolt PCB to the wood bloc
Dirt cheap, if you have a router. Should provide good stiffness without the complexity of a plate.
I'm not sure the plate builder tools will work so well because I don't think the spaces between blocks are even fractional key units.
Post by: Data on Thu, 26 May 2016, 07:57:45
Post by: tjweir on Fri, 27 May 2016, 08:59:02
Another concept:
Take a block of wood.
Mill out depressions in the key blocks to clear the protrusions on the PCB bottom (switch tips, stabilizers, solder blobs)
Bolt PCB to the wood bloc
Dirt cheap, if you have a router. Should provide good stiffness without the complexity of a plate.
I'm not sure the plate builder tools will work so well because I don't think the spaces between blocks are even fractional key units.
Oh, nice idea!
Going to try it.
Post by: 0100010 on Thu, 02 June 2016, 13:27:04
The plate drawings here have 10 screw holes. In the GH-122 PCB GB thread, looks like the PCB also has 10 holes, but not in the same positions in this thread // the GB thread also only makes mention of 8 screw holes.
Just want to be sure my plate drawing matches the PCB.
I am going to update the PCB drawing based on what I actually ordered.
- Ron | samwisekoi
This ever happen (so I can layout a plate that matches the PCB)?
Post by: samwisekoi on Thu, 02 June 2016, 13:45:06
I am going to update the PCB drawing based on what I actually ordered.
- Ron | samwisekoi
This ever happen (so I can layout a plate that matches the PCB)?
Here you go. .PNG, .PDF, .DXF and .VSD if anyone cares to see this in Visio.
All of the mounting holes are 0.125 in diameter and drilled 0.125" from the edge. Vertical gutters are 0.34", 0.33", and 0.33" from left to right. The horizontal gutter is 0.75" wide/tall. The Teensy is centered above Numpad_8, and the LEDs are centered above Numpad_Enter.
- Ron | samwisekoi
Post by: 0100010 on Thu, 02 June 2016, 17:53:27
Post by: Data on Thu, 02 June 2016, 20:03:30
I assume below, but I wanted to be sure.
Post by: Data on Thu, 02 June 2016, 20:35:47
Trying to see what a case top would look like for it...
(http://i.imgur.com/0nMJRaH.png)
Are the mounting holes in the PCB meant to be incorporated in the case design, or are they mainly part of the Unicomp case?
Post by: 0100010 on Thu, 02 June 2016, 20:55:17
Ron, does the Teensy mount above or below the PCB?
I assume below, but I wanted to be sure.
He posted a pic in the GB thread, it is below.
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=80326.0;attach=138636;image)
Post by: Data on Fri, 03 June 2016, 07:11:04
Ron, does the Teensy mount above or below the PCB?
I assume below, but I wanted to be sure.
He posted a pic in the GB thread, it is below.Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=80326.0;attach=138636;image)
I should have looked there first. Thanks.
Post by: samwisekoi on Fri, 03 June 2016, 10:26:38
Just wait until you solder diodes D1 through D160. Now there is some fun.
The mounting holes are general-purpose. I did toss an extra mounting hole above the function bank to be used if the PCB is cut.
Regarding the gutters: I would suggest including the 1/3" gaps or by the time you get to the LED cutouts they will have wandered to the left. Where you put the extra hundredth is less important. I accidentally made a face plate using .33, .33, .34 and I couldn't tell it was wrong. Some engineer at IBM divided one inch into three parts once, and those gutters are the result. Meanwhile over at Cherry -- then a US company -- they thought in switch units and used 0.375" gaps.
During design, I measured all of my keyboards and I can tell you for sure that there is no standard gutter width.
One final note about the 19.50" length. FYI, it is too long to use 1/8th (3mm) acrylic for top plates. The resulting thin sections can actually crack under their own weight if the face plate is held from one end. As me how I know...
- Ron | samwisekoi
(Auto-typed by my GH36 Matrix Keypad.)
Post by: Data on Fri, 03 June 2016, 12:46:49
I'm thinking this case needs to be metal. At least the plate, top, & bottom should be steel or aluminum. I'm also considering carbon fiber because it looks to be roughly the same price as stainless. My biggest question is: will a case this huge support itself without center-mounted supports/screws? I didn't have a problem using only edge-mounted screws with my Phantom builds but this board is a lot bigger...
Post by: samwisekoi on Fri, 03 June 2016, 14:34:37
Regarding an all-metal case, oddly enough I have an 8x20" chunk of .250" aluminum for a base plate right here. Not looking forward to cutting and sanding it. But yeah, all-metal would be awesome!
- Ron | samwisekoi
Post by: samwisekoi on Fri, 03 June 2016, 17:43:57
- Ron | samwisekoi
Post by: Data on Fri, 03 June 2016, 19:46:56
So are you thinking the extra 1/32 buffer is unnecessary?
Post by: AKmalamute on Fri, 03 June 2016, 20:20:29
This was talked about somewhere around here recently. Make a ~3mm "plate" with oversized holes. This will sit around the switches and flush against the PCB. Make another plate, 1.5mm, exactly like you would a plate. This will be reinforced by the lower piece of acrylic so the flexing of "super thin" plastic will be limited to the tiny section just around each switch. You'd probably want another ... what could you fit, say 2mm? On top of that again with the oversized holes, then bolt everything together, along with the lower piece and feet to make the whole thing act like one contiguous block of half-inch acrylic.
Of course, I haven't tried any of this and to my knowledge no one else has either ... but it seems like it would work.
Will Ponoko's P3 even cover it, at nearly 20 inches on a side?
Post by: Data on Fri, 03 June 2016, 21:44:41
$$$
There must be cheaper alternatives to Ponoko, though.
(http://i.imgur.com/YYFdV0r.png)
Made some progress tonight, only the hard part remains. I'll work on it some more tomorrow. This is the "top" superimposed over the "plate". I like to separate it by layers in the same file so I can see how they fit together and share common elements like edges and screw holes. Lots of "guide" layers not shown here. :P
Post by: samwisekoi on Fri, 03 June 2016, 22:30:17
I used Pololu for my laser-cut acrylic. And yes, the price for plates this large is stupid expensive. 3D printing is worse. I would like to see about vacuum-formed plastic top plates to provide more edge shape than a simple sandwich of acrylic slices. What I would really like is a wedge-shaped base, but I can't find a way to do that in any material.
One thing I have learned is that for whatever reason this PCB doesn't like Swill "cases". The foam completely deadens the switches so Browns feel like Blacks. Greens are ok, and I have not tried Blues, but my normal Browns feel dead, dead, dead. (To be fair, I am doing back-to-back testing against an F-122, but still.) The board feels much better free-floating in the Unicomp case. Therefore I'd suggest an air-gap under the board no matter what case design anyone tries.
Having said that, a big piece of Neoprene with a cut-out for the Teensy makes a good test and assembly setup. This was what I used:
http://www.amazon.com/Polyurethane-Open-Cell-Firmness-Backing-Thickness/dp/B003VYAXXQ
- Ron | samwisekoi
(Auto-typed by my GH36 Matrix Keypad.)
Post by: 0100010 on Sat, 04 June 2016, 11:20:45
Post by: Data on Sat, 04 June 2016, 11:59:31
Post by: Data on Sat, 04 June 2016, 13:57:02
I'm gonna have to get creative with the plate to support that.
Post by: Data on Sat, 04 June 2016, 15:02:09
(http://i.imgur.com/cP0aukj.png)
Anyone know if this object will work for 2u AND side-by-side 1u switch placement? I realize you'd have to use PCB-mount stabilizers, but is that the only limitation?
(http://i.imgur.com/C6Zz4GC.png)
Post by: 0100010 on Sat, 04 June 2016, 17:02:13
(http://s33.postimg.org/4qwsv78zj/2u_1u_SS.png)
Post by: Data on Sat, 04 June 2016, 17:06:50
Post by: 0100010 on Sat, 04 June 2016, 19:38:01
Post by: Data on Sat, 04 June 2016, 20:02:39
Edit: Full plate is a whopping 20.250 x 7.250 inches. :p
Post by: Hak Foo on Sat, 04 June 2016, 21:21:31
Post by: Data on Sat, 04 June 2016, 21:52:56
Just for ****s 'n gigs I ran a quote on a 3pc skeleton case (top/plate/bottom) in 304 stainless (waterjet) and it came to $197.70. That's about what I was expecting. I guess it's worth it to spend $72 to make sure I got the drawing right if it means avoiding a $200 mistake.
Post by: bazh on Sat, 04 June 2016, 22:20:05
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Data on Sat, 04 June 2016, 22:34:30
This is interesting if making into a CNC'd aluminum key, the thing is huge :P
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That would be awesome (and heavy!) but way too expensive.
Post by: bazh on Sat, 04 June 2016, 22:40:12
Yeah that would be easily $700-1000 for the case only :PThis is interesting if making into a CNC'd aluminum key, the thing is huge :P
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That would be awesome (and heavy!) but way too expensive.
Post by: blighty on Sun, 05 June 2016, 01:53:49
OK, the GH-122 looks really good in the Unicomp PC-122 case ($20) with Nuclear Data Green SA keycaps.
- Ron | samwisekoi
Was this PCB cut to fit the top of the case?
ANSI 125 completed. The red line is the PCB.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/cP0aukj.png)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/C6Zz4GC.png)
This is looking good so far. Is there a chance you could mock up a stepped caps lock and a 1.5 mod bottom row (with or without blockers on top plate)?
Post by: Data on Sun, 05 June 2016, 16:25:04
OK, the GH-122 looks really good in the Unicomp PC-122 case ($20) with Nuclear Data Green SA keycaps.
- Ron | samwisekoi
Was this PCB cut to fit the top of the case?ANSI 125 completed. The red line is the PCB.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/cP0aukj.png)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/C6Zz4GC.png)
This is looking good so far. Is there a chance you could mock up a stepped caps lock and a 1.5 mod bottom row (with or without blockers on top plate)?
I was considering an "ANSI" and "ISO" plate with the most common options on each. It's impossible to support everything though.
Post by: njbair on Sun, 05 June 2016, 20:10:44
Better way to spend $1K than a Korean custom IMO.Yeah that would be easily $700-1000 for the case onlyThis is interesting if making into a CNC'd aluminum key, the thing is huge
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That would be awesome (and heavy!) but way too expensive.
Post by: samwisekoi on Fri, 10 June 2016, 14:40:28
Looking at all of the plate options here and in the other thread, it seems like a PCB + .375" form factor is the way to go. I've done some work on the switch/stab cutouts, and think that a single plate could be made to cover everything except ANSI vs ISO Enter clusters.
So if we can agree on a plate form factor (i.e. agree to use Data's form factor), we can cut the cost per plate tremendously, even if we have to have two versions. This is especially true if we use cover plates that are specific to detailed layouts.
This weekend I'll work on two sections of the hard bits on the plate:
#1 Top rows. The left and right blocks are easy; but the big 30-position top block has too many options unless the plate just has a couple of long 0.550" rectangular holes up there. Rather than that, I think there are a few sensible layouts (F-122, 2xANSI, etc.) for the top, and I'll try to come up with something more helpful than two giant slots.
#2 ISO vs. ANSI Enter clusters. This is the big one, and if there is some way to create a plate with snip-and-remove sections so we can consolidate the two major variants, it would be a huge win. I'll try to accomplish that.
I'll feed the results of both efforts back here in the form of PNG/PDF/DXF/VSD files as before. Hopefully Data or someone can use my work to make a more nearly universal design or designs.
- Ron | samwisekoi
Post by: Spaceman1200 on Fri, 10 June 2016, 15:09:26
(http://i.imgur.com/uPPhJIN.png)
Post by: Data on Sat, 11 June 2016, 19:44:27
Wouldn't something like this work on enter? it would limit to pcb mount stabs, But i am fine with that as i have plenty of bothShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/uPPhJIN.png)
Potentially, yes. We've already compromised on the stabilizers in other areas so an Enter cutout like that might work. I'll have some time to mess with it tomorrow.
Edit: Ron, do you have a vector version of this sweet GH-122 logo you can share?
Post by: Data on Tue, 14 June 2016, 06:32:51
I should have more time this week. I'd like to order a sample plate before Friday so I can do a fit check.
Post by: bazh on Tue, 14 June 2016, 08:17:04
Wouldn't something like this work on enter? it would limit to pcb mount stabs, But i am fine with that as i have plenty of bothShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/uPPhJIN.png)
I've done something like this with my Weaven group buy round 1, the problem with the enter cutout is that it's left with the "|\" key not fully supported for ANSI user ( have to use a PCB mount switch to ensure the firmness), ISO user will have the same issue with their vertical enter key so we ended up making 2 separated plate for the round 2 :D
Post by: Data on Tue, 14 June 2016, 14:26:38
Post by: Data on Thu, 16 June 2016, 19:54:20
(http://i.imgur.com/0fIylGe.png)
But the space bar looks really funky for some reason. Did I do this right?
(http://i.imgur.com/sZWQ4UJ.png)
Units are inches. I only dimensioned the layout with the 7u spacebar because I'm already 99% confident that my 6.25 layout is correct and solid. But it still looks really weird.
Post by: Data on Thu, 16 June 2016, 21:17:59
Test plate ordered.
Post by: Hak Foo on Thu, 16 June 2016, 23:32:11
Post by: Data on Fri, 17 June 2016, 06:20:55
Post by: Data on Wed, 22 June 2016, 14:41:59
Post by: Data on Fri, 24 June 2016, 22:26:04
Here's an album: http://imgur.com/a/RSeQ6
(http://i.imgur.com/kecHEsp.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/6SFLbBn.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ul076Cs.jpg)
Issue #1: I cut the Right Shift hole completely wrong. It'll have to be redrawn. I'm pretty sure I just inverted the positions of the 1.75u "Short" Shift and its 1u companion key. Everything is fine for the standard 2.75u Right Shift.
Issue #2: I can't say for certain but I'm concerned that the holes in the PCB for the space bar stabilizers might be misplaced for the 6.25u space bar. They look OK for the 7u but they're way off for the ANSI 125 layout. Either I did some Florida Math here or we have a problem.
(http://i.imgur.com/H9AbWTx.jpg)
- More photos in the album!
Issue #3: The circles marking the locations of the lock indicator LEDs are a little off center vertically. I'll measure again and adjust them up a smidge to compensate.
Issue #4: The massive battle scars at the top of the plate are a serious weakness. Can we talk about that area? Two giant holes basically remove all structural integrity from that top cluster. Did we ever figure out if there's a way to shore it up a little and still keep it accessible for the most common layouts? I'm open to suggestions here.
Thanks to anyone still reading. I feel like I'm mostly on my own here, so unless I get some feedback I'm just going to forge ahead and make something for me.
Post by: Hak Foo on Sat, 25 June 2016, 00:28:37
In terms of fixing the big top openings, I personally think the top two banks will break down into one of four options:
* Full 30 positions
* 26 positions (two normal 12-function rows plus escapes)
* 25 positions (only one escape)
* 24 positions (2x12 block in a conventional 122 style)
Post by: Spaceman1200 on Sat, 25 June 2016, 02:57:48
Post by: Data on Sat, 25 June 2016, 11:19:48
So... what did it cost for a plate like that, and how is the sag factor of the material?
In terms of fixing the big top openings, I personally think the top two banks will break down into one of four options:
* Full 30 positions
* 26 positions (two normal 12-function rows plus escapes)
* 25 positions (only one escape)
* 24 positions (2x12 block in a conventional 122 style)
Plate was $68 +shipping. It's not quite as rigid as acrylic, so it doesn't make a great plate at the thickness I purchased (0.063" / 1.6002mm) and given the size of this board -- there's noticeable sag around the top cluster and over the full length and width of the plate. But it is fairly rigid so it would work for cases at greater material thickness or with smaller overall dimensions. It's denser than acrylic and optically clear. I like it mainly because the risk of stress fractures is essentially zero. BigBlueSaw has it up to 1/4" thick.
I'm playing with the numbers you listed now to see if we can work something out.
Post by: Data on Sat, 25 June 2016, 15:17:19
FULL 30
(http://i.imgur.com/6YKWQMj.png)
TRADITIONAL F-ROW V1
(http://i.imgur.com/pAwlmpC.png)
TRADITIONAL F-ROW V2
(http://i.imgur.com/UiqN8st.png)
MODEL F-122
(http://i.imgur.com/JLJ8z0L.png)
(F-block centered over number row keys)
Post by: Hak Foo on Sun, 26 June 2016, 01:14:58
Post by: Data on Sun, 26 June 2016, 11:17:18
Provided there are no surprise additions to these 4 suggested layouts. :P
Post by: blighty on Sun, 26 June 2016, 11:41:31
Post by: Data on Sun, 26 June 2016, 15:08:45
I'd probably go for any of them as well, but I'd prefer ANSI 150 instead of 125.
Switch positions for both bottom row layouts are already in the drawing and the test plate.
Post by: Data on Sun, 26 June 2016, 19:55:01
Anyway, here is the adjusted plate.
(https://s32.postimg.org/ebioee25x/V2_Case_Capture.png)
Supports all the above top-row layouts, plus:
- ANSI 125 bottom row
- ANSI 150 bottom row
- Off-center stepped OR centered Caps Lock
- Split Backspace
- Short Right Shift
- ANSI Enter
- 2x 1u OR 1x 2u (horizontal) in the left column (using PCB stabilizers)
And yes, I'll do one for ISO if there's any interest The only differences would be the Enter key layout and the split Left Shift.
Did I miss anything? Does someone want to validate my spacebar placement so I can stop being paranoid about it? :rolleyes:
Post by: AKmalamute on Mon, 27 June 2016, 13:55:46
I might request the final .dxf and order 1.5mm PETG and then get 5mm silicone with larger holes so it won't interfere with switch adherence but still support the whole of the plate. Not sure if that would be net less expensive than a SS-16ga plate but I don't expect to be running one of those GBs, it sounds like.
Post by: Data on Mon, 27 June 2016, 14:26:58
I like it. And the PETG, is it strong enough to have a thinner plate, so the keyswitches will 'clip' into place?
I might request the final .dxf and order 1.5mm PETG and then get 5mm silicone with larger holes so it won't interfere with switch adherence but still support the whole of the plate. Not sure if that would be net less expensive than a SS-16ga plate but I don't expect to be running one of those GBs, it sounds like.
Thanks. I'll gladly make the DXF and DWG files available to whoever wants them.
You make an interesting point about the GBs. Engicoder and I were talking about that earlier. There were so few of these made/sold that it's very likely everyone will just do their own thing, and a few might never even get made. There are so many options with this board it's unlikely that any two people (among 20?) will want the same finished product. So it kinda sucks for saving money but at least there will be some unique boards. :P
Edit: And yeah, PETG would work fairly well for a plate, especially if it was a little thicker. At 1.6mm there's just not enough material to prevent sag. This board is huge! It's especially noticeable around the two top rows -- a problem I hope to have eliminated in the latest design. In the areas that are better supported, everything snaps in nicely like you'd expect. I have little doubt that the material would work well for cases in other areas -- it's definitely superior to (clear) acrylic. Metal is still king for plates.
Post by: Data on Thu, 30 June 2016, 12:36:55
Looks like Imgur is down (again) for some reason.
Anyway, here is the adjusted plate.Show Image(https://s32.postimg.org/ebioee25x/V2_Case_Capture.png)
Supports all the above top-row layouts, plus:
- ANSI 125 bottom row
- ANSI 150 bottom row
- Off-center stepped OR centered Caps Lock
- Split Backspace
- Short Right Shift
- ANSI Enter
- 2x 1u OR 1x 2u (horizontal) in the left column (using PCB stabilizers)
And yes, I'll do one for ISO if there's any interest The only differences would be the Enter key layout and the split Left Shift.
Did I miss anything? Does someone want to validate my spacebar placement so I can stop being paranoid about it? :rolleyes:
Going to confirm the two main bottom row layouts on my test plate when I get home, then I'll probably order this as part of a 3pc sandwich case tonight.
Post by: Data on Thu, 30 June 2016, 19:53:13
ANSI 125 fits but a plate-mounted stabilizer is required.
(http://i.imgur.com/Ab2RcsD.jpg)
ANSI 150 fits but a PCB-mounted stabilizer is required.
(http://i.imgur.com/0x13Pxl.jpg)
I also made sure the stepped, off-center Caps Lock was correct.
Post by: Data on Sun, 03 July 2016, 17:29:15
AutoCAD 2013 DWG "master" file
[attachmini=1]
AutoCAD R12-format DXF - universal plate only
[attachmini=2]
AutoCAD R12-format DXF - Data's Cuts (this is what I'm submitting to BBS)
[attachmini=3]
A note on the DWG file --
I put everything on layers so you can select different layouts by just turning the appropriate layers on and off. They're labeled so it should be self-explanatory once you start looking at it. I also left my guide layers and some dimensions in there but you shouldn't need them. If you use this to create your own plate/case make sure you move everything to Layer 0 and delete the other (empty) layers in your DXF before you save & submit for cutting. No ISO support yet, but it shouldn't be too difficult to add. For those without access to CAD, PM me if you need something special and I'll try to help.
Post by: Hak Foo on Sun, 10 July 2016, 11:35:50
The LED cutouts on the plate seem to render as a single line, not an actual box.
Post by: Data on Sun, 10 July 2016, 14:54:56
Which files are you opening? The DXFs are AutoCAD R12 format because that's what BBS likes. The site has never balked at any of my files, but I can export them in a newer DXF format if you think that would help. The shapes are all polylines and circles, nothing fancy. Does FreeCAD handle polylines?
Post by: Data on Sun, 10 July 2016, 20:38:54
Yeah. Just rebuilt a new HEX and flashed with the latest Teensy loader. Still no Column 22. :(
Post by: Hak Foo on Sun, 10 July 2016, 21:49:50
Regarding the bad column, I recall some chatter when Samwisekoi was producing the original revision PCB, he had some issues with that column.
Edit: here's the layout I submitted.
Post by: Data on Mon, 11 July 2016, 06:18:10
Post by: 0100010 on Mon, 11 July 2016, 06:23:29
Post by: Data on Mon, 11 July 2016, 06:26:01
The pic in this post may help. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80326.msg2168083#msg2168083
Well that IS the column with the issue. But the trace appears to be connected fine through the PCB. I followed it as it switched sides twice. :P One thing I didn't do is break out the meter and check for continuity. I'll make a jumper wire tonight and see if I can connect it manually like in the photo.
Thanks.
Post by: Data on Mon, 11 July 2016, 18:55:24
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Mon, 11 July 2016, 20:15:37
Well I'm at a loss. I verified continuity from pin D0 (measured on the Teensy itself) all the way down through every point of contact in Column 22. The PCB, for all intents and purposes, appears to be fine. So the only other thing it could be is firmware, right? Could it not be compiling correctly somehow?
I just got my Teensy in so I'll be building my soon and let you know.
Post by: Data on Tue, 12 July 2016, 06:23:14
Well I'm at a loss. I verified continuity from pin D0 (measured on the Teensy itself) all the way down through every point of contact in Column 22. The PCB, for all intents and purposes, appears to be fine. So the only other thing it could be is firmware, right? Could it not be compiling correctly somehow?
I just got my Teensy in so I'll be building my soon and let you know.
Thanks. I'm going to bring this up in the EasyAVR thread. Maybe metalliqaz knows what's wrong.
Post by: Hak Foo on Thu, 21 July 2016, 01:39:54
Post by: Data on Thu, 21 July 2016, 06:25:37
I got my case plates from BBS yesterday. Not sure if they adjusted the kerf for the water jet or if I mismeasured somehow, but the screw holes are ever so slightly too small for the 8-32 screws I had in mind. Going to take a needle file to it tonight and adjust them back out to the right diameter.
Post by: Data on Thu, 21 July 2016, 16:38:16
I'm gonna blame this on an artifact of the water jet cutting. :P
Post by: Hak Foo on Fri, 22 July 2016, 20:49:15
Post by: Hak Foo on Sat, 23 July 2016, 01:12:54
It is supposed to map every possible matrix position to "A".
I tested it with a board with the first and last column of switches soldered, and it seemed to show some signs of life... but when I placed numpad 5, it didn't register.
Possible logic: Column 22 (Numpad 5) is connected to Teensy++ pin PD6. PD6 seems to be used as the onboard LED, and that might well cause some issue with using it as part of the matrix.
The board I have seems to have already accounted for that. The column is mapped to PD0, not PD6. The schematic is wrong.
Here is a modified firmware that does appear to activate on the column.
Other concern: when I plugged it into my Thinkpad, the numlock light seemed to be stuck on.
Post by: Data on Sun, 24 July 2016, 13:33:25
Post by: Data on Mon, 25 July 2016, 17:04:48
Built and tested good. Address validation and shipping starts tomorrow!
- Ron | samwisekoi
I assume the mainline version of EasyAVR now has the wrong matrix for the new boards and will have to be updated, correct?
Correct. D0 was replaced with B7 using your final patch files. Also ANSI \| is used as ISO Enter. (I can send you the matrix positions when I get into the office.)
Thanks!
- Ron | samwisekoi
(Auto-typed by my GH36 Matrix Keypad.)
p.s. Also, I killed the ziggurats.
The last commit for EasyAVR on Github was 5/8, so I'm guessing the required updates were not made. I'm not quite sure what the D0/B7 swap means in this context but D0 is definitely the column that's having problems. Where do we go from here?
Post by: Data on Fri, 29 July 2016, 19:25:58
Post by: Hak Foo on Sat, 06 August 2016, 01:17:50
(http://i.imgur.com/xAOJKjT.jpg)
If you want to try it, retrieve the package from Deskthority. (https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/soarer-s-keyboard-controller-firmware-t6767.html)
Extract the "Tools" and "Firmware" directories.
Use the Teensy Loader to install the AT90USB1286 HEX file in the Firmware directory.
Extract the correct package in the Tools directory for your OS.
Run the "scas" program with my config to get a compiled config file (example: scas.exe columnoriented.txt config.hex)
Run the "scwr" program to flash it to the keyboard (example: scwr.exe config.hex)
Things that could do with some looking into:
* My board seemed to emit "a" repeatedly when first initialized sometimes. I suspect this may be something as simple as the tight casing fouling one of the switches.
* The config file seems to have line length limits of around 320 characters-- scas will cut off and report errors. I had to define some normally unused matrix spots as keys instead of the long ASSIGNED to bring it under the limit.
Post by: 0100010 on Tue, 06 September 2016, 21:31:30
Metalliqaz got back to me and said he would look into it. Fingers crossed...
Any update? I have been travelling souch, so no time to build any boards.
Post by: Data on Wed, 07 September 2016, 11:18:24
Metalliqaz got back to me and said he would look into it. Fingers crossed...
Any update? I have been travelling souch, so no time to build any boards.
He went quiet a few weeks ago, after reviving his Qazpad project, and has never gotten back to me. Ron also hasn't responded to my email or PM, so my GH-122 is sadly back in a holding pattern until something happens with the firmware.
Post by: 0100010 on Tue, 13 September 2016, 17:52:39
EDIT : After checking all of the pin assignments on the board, it is only the D0/D6 assignment that is incorrect.
I corrected the GH122.py source file. If one were to follow the instructions here : https://github.com/dhowland/EasyAVR#supporting-custom-boards (https://github.com/dhowland/EasyAVR#supporting-custom-boards)
And copy this GH122v2.py file to the C:\Users\User\.EasyAVR\boards folder (if using windows) - just might fix column 22...
EDIT - removing old attachment here, refer to updated attachment a few posts below.
Post by: Data on Wed, 14 September 2016, 09:07:38
Going to take stab looking at the GH122.py source file.
EDIT : After checking all of the pin assignments on the board, it is only the D0/D6 assignment that is incorrect.
I corrected the GH122.py source file. If one were to follow the instructions here : https://github.com/dhowland/EasyAVR#supporting-custom-boards (https://github.com/dhowland/EasyAVR#supporting-custom-boards)
And copy this GH122v2.py file to the C:\Users\User\.EasyAVR\boards folder (if using windows) - just might fix column 22...
You're a braver man than I. Thanks for confirming my suspicions. If I have time this weekend I'll attempt to try your fix. :thumb:
Post by: 0100010 on Wed, 14 September 2016, 09:13:00
EDIT : Had to correct the matrix column assignments for right alt / menu / ctrl, and fix the numpad 0 / del keys.
(https://s18.postimg.org/z9ig9p6ll/010gh122.png)
Post by: Spaceman1200 on Thu, 15 September 2016, 12:43:37
Post by: 0100010 on Thu, 15 September 2016, 18:59:01
What material from BBS did you guys use? Looking to get a case made here in the next week or so, Was looking at my options.
BBS is having a sale starting on Monday for 0.06" 304 SS; I'm going to order my plate then.
https://www.bigbluesaw.com/big-blue-saw/big-blue-saw-special-info/big-blue-saw-customer-appreciation-sale-sept-19-21.html
Post by: Spaceman1200 on Fri, 16 September 2016, 07:16:15
What material from BBS did you guys use? Looking to get a case made here in the next week or so, Was looking at my options.
BBS is having a sale starting on Monday for 0.06" 304 SS; I'm going to order my plate then.
https://www.bigbluesaw.com/big-blue-saw/big-blue-saw-special-info/big-blue-saw-customer-appreciation-sale-sept-19-21.html
I seen that in my emails today! Not sure if im gonna go for the low taper or not
Post by: Hak Foo on Fri, 16 September 2016, 15:12:23
What material from BBS did you guys use? Looking to get a case made here in the next week or so, Was looking at my options.
I used the 1.5mm aluminium. Personally, I'd go for the steel if it's cheaper... the weight is not a big factor, and aluminium is famous for being difficult to mill if you need to file out a hole neatly.
Post by: Spaceman1200 on Fri, 16 September 2016, 15:47:24
IWhat material from BBS did you guys use? Looking to get a case made here in the next week or so, Was looking at my options.
I used the 1.5mm aluminium. Personally, I'd go for the steel if it's cheaper... the weight is not a big factor, and aluminium is famous for being difficult to mill if you need to file out a hole neatly.
With the sale from BBS the 304 steel should be around the same price if not a little more, When you got yours cut did you opt in for the low taper machining?
Post by: Hak Foo on Sat, 17 September 2016, 12:03:07
If you use Data's plate as a base, this may require gluing one or two of the inserts into place to ensure they stay put.
Post by: 0100010 on Sat, 17 September 2016, 17:00:27
Updated file attached here.
Note - I put in all the diodes on my board and I have been using a bare switch to test. :-)
Post by: AKmalamute on Mon, 19 September 2016, 00:51:20
BBS is having a sale starting on Monday for 0.06" 304 SS; I'm going to order my plate then.
https://www.bigbluesaw.com/big-blue-saw/big-blue-saw-special-info/big-blue-saw-customer-appreciation-sale-sept-19-21.html
Great timing!
Now if only copy & paste worked in LibreCAD the way it does in graphics or word processing programs.
I wanted to make a few minor changes but when I try to import Data's .DXFs into inkscape, it says please use 2013 (I think?) and just gives me a few dots as the drawing. So I installed LibreCAD and tried copying just the 7x spacebar plate mount thing from the phantom .dxf .zip files, and it's showing as five times the size of the whole GH122 drawing.
I almost managed this making a MX->Alps conversion using inkscape but the original plate imported fine.
I don't suppose someone could convert the universal drawing to an SVG so I could fiddle with copy/pasting component? Or maybe if I describe what I wanted I could get it whipped up by somebody here in time to submit to the BBS sale...?
Post by: 0100010 on Mon, 19 September 2016, 08:11:50
Post by: AKmalamute on Mon, 19 September 2016, 11:40:31
Tried using QCAD? It's free and that is what I use. Anyway, exported Data's universal file to an SVG (using QCAD).
Downloaded, thanks.
I'd read that QCad sorta morphed into LibreCAD, but it might be a fork or something.
I don't doubt I could have made it work eventually ... but CAD controls don't seem to do what I'm expecting them to; similar to when I transitioned from OpenOffice Writer to Lyx.
And the sale is only three days :-) So for this, I'll just stick to what I'm used to.
Thanks again!
Post by: Spaceman1200 on Mon, 19 September 2016, 12:30:50
Post by: AKmalamute on Mon, 19 September 2016, 18:57:41
Got my plates ordered, Now to figure out what standoffs and screws i'll need lol
I took the time to sort-of make a spacer file...it would leave gaps but be reversible to reduce costs, a tiny bit.
Still would have added $150 in almost any material -- more for things like wood, even MDF that I'd hoped would be cheaper.
Hopefully the careful sliding of parts in Inkscape will work out. I'll feel really dumb if I just spent $200 and the space bar won't line up.
I doubt anyone will want them but I'll attach for comment, the spacer file I tried to get too. Should I have skipped the corners? Maybe I just need to find an acrylic specialist. But whatever material I get it needs to be just over half an inch to make sure the Teensy++ clears the floor piece.
Or at least maybe someone could clean up the flat edges when I attached two pieces -- it's the only way I know to have a rounded edge right angle, but it leaves the other end rounded too, which I thought might add to laser time / cost.
Post by: Data on Fri, 23 September 2016, 13:43:31
BBS is having a sale starting on Monday for 0.06" 304 SS; I'm going to order my plate then.
https://www.bigbluesaw.com/big-blue-saw/big-blue-saw-special-info/big-blue-saw-customer-appreciation-sale-sept-19-21.html
Great timing!
Now if only copy & paste worked in LibreCAD the way it does in graphics or word processing programs.
I wanted to make a few minor changes but when I try to import Data's .DXFs into inkscape, it says please use 2013 (I think?) and just gives me a few dots as the drawing. So I installed LibreCAD and tried copying just the 7x spacebar plate mount thing from the phantom .dxf .zip files, and it's showing as five times the size of the whole GH122 drawing.
I almost managed this making a MX->Alps conversion using inkscape but the original plate imported fine.
I don't suppose someone could convert the universal drawing to an SVG so I could fiddle with copy/pasting component? Or maybe if I describe what I wanted I could get it whipped up by somebody here in time to submit to the BBS sale...?
Sorry you're having trouble with the files. Not sure why LibreCAD wouldn't open the DXFs but you might not be the only person to have that same issue. They're R12 format exported directly from AutoCAD 2013, and they only contain polylines on Layer 0. BBS didn't have any problem reading them.
I can try exporting to another format if you think it would help. Let me know. :-[
Edit: missed the tail end of your post somehow. I can try writing to SVG if you still need it.
Post by: AKmalamute on Sat, 24 September 2016, 15:59:34
Thoughts about the spacer? Who is a good choice for acrylic? Does anybody else provide harder plastics? I remember MOZ experimented with a TKL case spacer that could be cut in small strips, then lined up at the corners and in the center ... and after actually building one, decided the idea was bunk and recommended abandoning it.
But my poor phantom needs a case too and I was hoping to get it cut in PETE while I was doing everything else, but it doesn't seem to be that much cheaper than the on-sale SS, which was too expensive for a keyboard I'm happily using with just a block of wood as the case.
Guess I should try to post pictures of that, but it's so unfinished. Moreso than most of my projects. Okay I'll shut up now, and promise to post a picture when the GH122 is assembled.
Post by: Hak Foo on Sun, 25 September 2016, 01:10:21
Post by: 0100010 on Sun, 25 September 2016, 20:50:33
I'm waiting on my plate to come in from BBS and I ran wires on the back of the PCB for the Scroll Lock and Num Lock LEDs. Tested and confirmed they are working (as well as Caps Lock LED).
Post by: Data on Mon, 26 September 2016, 07:46:40
Thanks for your help, Data -- I forget what all I had to do, but it involved switching back and forth a between LibreCAD & Inkscape. Attached just above your reply, is the output of what I was able to make. Everything I uploaded got interpreted as "inches" but they had a button to convert to mm, 1/25.4th the size, and that could fit into their machinery.
Thoughts about the spacer? Who is a good choice for acrylic? Does anybody else provide harder plastics? I remember MOZ experimented with a TKL case spacer that could be cut in small strips, then lined up at the corners and in the center ... and after actually building one, decided the idea was bunk and recommended abandoning it.
But my poor phantom needs a case too and I was hoping to get it cut in PETE while I was doing everything else, but it doesn't seem to be that much cheaper than the on-sale SS, which was too expensive for a keyboard I'm happily using with just a block of wood as the case.
Guess I should try to post pictures of that, but it's so unfinished. Moreso than most of my projects. Okay I'll shut up now, and promise to post a picture when the GH122 is assembled.
I had BBS cut a test plate in PETG for me. Pricing was about the same as acrylic. It's not quite as rigid as acrylic but it's a lot tougher and would be great for spacers, particularly at a larger material thickness -- 1.5mm was just too thin. I'm not really a fan of acrylic just because of how brittle it is.
Post by: Data on Mon, 26 September 2016, 08:05:14
Data - you get a chance to try that updated source file yet?
I'm waiting on my plate to come in from BBS and I ran wires on the back of the PCB for the Scroll Lock and Num Lock LEDs. Tested and confirmed they are working (as well as Caps Lock LED).
I spent almost the entire day Sunday disassembling, fixing, and reassembling my GH-122. The cutouts for the stabilizers were not cut to spec so I had to modify them with a file. Prior to modding they were too narrow and all the stabilized keys were binding. So heads-up if anyone is using my file -- if you have plates made at BBS and especially if you use their water jet service, be prepared to measure everything carefully and make adjustments. I don't think they adjusted for kerf properly. :( This wasn't the only fitment issue I had, either. I mentioned the screw holes issue earlier in the thread.
I'm typing on it now. Just glad that the nightmare is over. I should have a chance to tackle the firmware problem this week and I can finally call it done.
(http://i.imgur.com/JhJJp4Q.jpg?1)
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Mon, 26 September 2016, 08:11:43
Data - you get a chance to try that updated source file yet?
I'm waiting on my plate to come in from BBS and I ran wires on the back of the PCB for the Scroll Lock and Num Lock LEDs. Tested and confirmed they are working (as well as Caps Lock LED).
I spent almost the entire day Sunday disassembling, fixing, and reassembling my GH-122. The cutouts for the stabilizers were not cut to spec so I had to modify them with a file. Prior to modding they were too narrow and all the stabilized keys were binding. So heads-up if anyone is using my file -- if you have plates made at BBS and especially if you use their water jet service, be prepared to measure everything carefully and make adjustments. I don't think they adjusted for kerf properly. :( This wasn't the only fitment issue I had, either. I mentioned the screw holes issue earlier in the thread.
I'm typing on it now. Just glad that the nightmare is over. I should have a chance to tackle the firmware problem this week and I can finally call it done.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/JhJJp4Q.jpg?1)
Woah. Nice one, Data. That is a beast!
Post by: Spaceman1200 on Mon, 26 September 2016, 09:23:20
Data - you get a chance to try that updated source file yet?
I'm waiting on my plate to come in from BBS and I ran wires on the back of the PCB for the Scroll Lock and Num Lock LEDs. Tested and confirmed they are working (as well as Caps Lock LED).
if you have plates made at BBS and especially if you use their water jet service, be prepared to measure everything carefully and make adjustments. I don't think they adjusted for kerf properly. :( This wasn't the only fitment issue I had, either. I mentioned the screw holes issue earlier in the thread.
Just what i needed to hear, ordered my plates from your file in last week's BBS 304 sale. All well, more fun for me!
Post by: 0100010 on Mon, 26 September 2016, 10:11:22
Your GH122 looks amazing!
Post by: Data on Mon, 26 September 2016, 14:21:56
Post by: Data on Tue, 27 September 2016, 13:57:31
OK, had to make a couple more changes to the GH122.py source file to get column 22 working; had to reduce the number of LEDs from 5 to 3.
Updated file attached here.
Note - I put in all the diodes on my board and I have been using a bare switch to test. :-)
Let me see if I understand this correctly.
I take your .py file and save it to
Code: [Select]
keymapper/easykeymap/boards/Then I open EasyAVR and select the new GH-122 board from the list. Configure keymap and export the new .hex file. Flash to Teensy.
Is that it?
That is definitely something I can handle, but it looks like we're using wildly different keymaps so I'm probably going to have to do some manual edits... :(
Post by: AKmalamute on Tue, 27 September 2016, 14:03:45
Let me see if I understand this correctly.
I take your .py file and save it toCode: [Select]keymapper/easykeymap/boards/
Then I open EasyAVR and select the new GH-122 board from the list. Configure keymap and export the new .hex file. Flash to Teensy.
I've programmed my sentraq S60 that way, and yes it's that simple.
Having not looked at the .py file myself, I might recommend throwing the proffered file into an editor, for this reason: the program already has a GH-122 setting, and if this one is named the same, it will be a little unclear which one is "new" but if you call it "fixed GH122" then when you select layout->new->fixed GH122, you'll know the resulting .hex file references the correct pins at the correct time.
Also if you edit the .py file you can have it default to dvorak or whatever, before you start "manually editing" the layout.
:p
If you don't mind manually editing the .py file first, I mean.
Post by: Data on Tue, 27 September 2016, 14:07:15
Let me see if I understand this correctly.
I take your .py file and save it toCode: [Select]keymapper/easykeymap/boards/
Then I open EasyAVR and select the new GH-122 board from the list. Configure keymap and export the new .hex file. Flash to Teensy.
I've programmed my sentraq S60 that way, and yes it's that simple.
Having not looked at the .py file myself, I might recommend throwing the proffered file into an editor, for this reason: the program already has a GH-122 setting, and if this one is named the same, it will be a little unclear which one is "new" but if you call it "fixed GH122" then when you select layout->new->fixed GH122, you'll know the resulting .hex file references the correct pins at the correct time.
Also if you edit the .py file you can have it default to dvorak or whatever, before you start "manually editing" the layout.
:p
If you don't mind manually editing the .py file first, I mean.
I opened it in Notepad++ and he has it labeled "GH-122v2" with a unique identifier. So that part isn't a problem.
The problem is I have no idea what I'm doing once I get into the actual keyboard definition. :confused:
Post by: 0100010 on Tue, 27 September 2016, 14:14:35
Post by: Data on Tue, 27 September 2016, 14:18:11
You shouldn't have to change anything in the file. When you select the GH122c2 as a new layout, you can pick which version of the layout to use (All, ANSI, Optional).
Excellent. I'll give it a try. :thumb:
Post by: 0100010 on Tue, 27 September 2016, 14:22:08
2 - Run easykeymap.exe
3 - File - New Default Layout
4 - Select GH-122v2
5 - Select desired layout (All / ANSI / ISO / Offset)
6 - Complete layout scancode assignments
7 - Build firmware
8 - Load firmware (teensy loader)
Post by: Spaceman1200 on Wed, 28 September 2016, 11:51:17
OK, had to make a couple more changes to the GH122.py source file to get column 22 working; had to reduce the number of LEDs from 5 to 3.
Updated file attached here.
Note - I put in all the diodes on my board and I have been using a bare switch to test. :-)
i can confirm that the new firmware works 100%, Had my board soldered up without switches, but used my tweezers to check the key actuation's! Thanks for your hard work 0100010!
Post by: 0100010 on Wed, 28 September 2016, 14:51:53
Post by: Data on Thu, 29 September 2016, 07:54:24
Post by: 0100010 on Thu, 29 September 2016, 08:47:53
Post by: 0100010 on Fri, 07 October 2016, 21:26:02
(https://s13.postimg.org/qmy8g0ptz/20161007_212143.jpg)
Post by: Spaceman1200 on Sat, 08 October 2016, 05:30:58
Post by: 0100010 on Sat, 08 October 2016, 08:42:41
Post by: AKmalamute on Tue, 18 October 2016, 15:47:29
The holes I put it my .DXF are for plate mount combined stabs -- but I hate costar, and I only have I think 4 sets of cherry plate stabs left. Plenty of PCB stabs I think, but all told I need 14 stabilizers to complete my board.
So -- opinions? Which will be less time/trouble ... getting a dremel and trying to cut plate mount into PCB mount, or sourcing a dozen plate mount stabs? I used to have a link to one of the major suppliers, to their Cherry MX leveling kit that turned out to be 2x plate mount stabs. And I have raw wire so can make my own 7x, come to that.
But I'd also kinda like to put my clear stabs to use, too. So I dunno.
Edit: Mouser has them (http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0G990224virtualkey54010000virtualkey540-G99-0224). Probably my best bet; but since shipping nearly matches the cost of the parts I should shop a bit, stock up on random ... stuff.
What parts are needed to make an xwhatsit? I'm planning someday on making a BS ergodox so would likely need to make my own controller ... guess it's time to do some homework before they run out ;-)
Post by: hebbler on Tue, 18 October 2016, 16:49:57
The Cherry plate mount stabilizers are Mouser Part # 540-G99-0224
That's the mount, insert, and wire for smaller keys (not space bar).
I just ordered stabilizers from Mouser Electronics a few days ago. Ordered both pcb mount and plate mount. I thought I might be able to use the plate mounts with my RSIII or the Golbat. But it turns out they both take the pcb mount ones.
I'm actually trying to source some 6.25x space bar wires. I think I have 8 sets of the plate mount that I don't need. Drop me a PM if you think you can use them... maybe you can make me a few space bar wires. :cool:
FWIW, the equivalent Cherry pcb mount stabilizers are Mouser Part # 540-0G990742
*Edited: meant standard 6.25 space bar wire.
Post by: Data on Wed, 19 October 2016, 06:59:13
Post by: AKmalamute on Thu, 20 October 2016, 14:04:37
Keep in mind that the mount holes in the PCB were cut incorrectly for the 6.25u space bar,
I imported the 7a+b cutout from Moz' thread of details, and staring down the (plate mount) holes, I can see the PCB holes right under them so it's cool on that front. If you look back a page you'll see the .dxf I sent in, and my problem is the seven 2u "ESC" keys on the left, and I was expecting to use PCB stabs so imported the cutout with the biggest space figuring it was maybe-probably PCB mount (nope).
I guess I should troll that thread to see if PCB stab cutouts are ever addressed ...
Post by: Data on Thu, 20 October 2016, 19:22:49
Post by: AKmalamute on Tue, 25 October 2016, 00:15:26
Since I'm using the 2x keys to the far left, and I'm trying to conserve my diodes (at nearly two cents apiece, dontcha know) can someone tell me whether the 2x holes go to the inside, or outside column? They clearly don't have their own diode, but I don't seem to have the Qaz' program on this PC since last wipe, so I can't try to guess which column that is from the various proffered layouts.
Post by: 0100010 on Tue, 25 October 2016, 07:13:42
Post by: kalrand on Tue, 25 October 2016, 17:32:26
I'm glad some of you guys are making the dream happen.
Post by: AKmalamute on Thu, 27 October 2016, 00:43:51
Granted, with some mojo involving electrical tape, and *not* involving those little plastic standoffs, it would fit. But the wires would be ALL confuzzled.
Dang. At this point I'm more minutes into getting that controller soldered than adding diodes.
Still, for future reference ... putting the controller on the top, for a plate-using keyboard? Nifty! Then I don't need half as much of a case because I don't have to protect the teensy.
Post by: Data on Thu, 27 October 2016, 07:20:28
In fairness, we covered Teensy placement on Page 1 of this thread. :P
Post by: samwisekoi on Fri, 11 November 2016, 10:16:53
I am delighted to see Data's build. I certainly looks better than anything I have done. I read over the last couple of pages of this thread, and it appears that there is a current firmware package. Is that correct? If so, I won't release a working hack from months ago, but if anyone wants it, I can zip it up for y'all.
Second, I see a note that the 6.25 spacebar on the PCB is wrong on the v1.1 PCB. Is that true? It may very well be true -- that row was horrible to create. However, I think I have an ANSI board populated and working as-is. I'll check on that, but please let me know if it is wrong, and I'll update the design file in case anyone wants to make more of these.
My GH recovery plan includes monitoring this thread and providing assistance as I can. I have not gone through my PM Inbox yet, so if you have questions or flames for me, this is the place for that.
Again, my apologies for being away from the hobby for so long, but I shall attempt to do what I can from here out.
And it is great to see some of the boards being built. That didn't really happen with most of the GH36 PCBs I sent out, so seeing GH-122 keyboards is quite a tonic!
Best to all,
- Ron | samwisekoi
p.s. I have ONE spare board in case someone has toasted theirs in a build attempt.
Post by: Data on Sat, 12 November 2016, 21:06:24
Post by: 0100010 on Tue, 22 November 2016, 20:10:43
Post by: samwisekoi on Wed, 23 November 2016, 10:33:07
You know those big reels of solder that seem like they will last a lifetime? Decades, anyhow? I emptied mine during the process, then discovered that I had to go to e-Bay to buy real (60/40 Multicore) solder. The new reel came in its original box -- without a bar code! I also "upgraded" to a new soldering station, only to discover that modern Weller tips freakin' melt if you use real solder.
Anyhow, enjoy the build. One nice thing about it -- the through-holes are not the crappy OEM ones that lift if you happen to overheat them with a 60W soldering iron.
- Ron | samwisekoi
(Auto-typed by my GH36 Matrix Keypad.)
p.s. In other news, I have got mine cheaply mounted in the Unicomp case. I will post pics when I have something better than a potato.
Post by: Spaceman1200 on Wed, 23 November 2016, 10:44:02
(http://i.imgur.com/kRObxtx.jpg)
Post by: samwisekoi on Wed, 23 November 2016, 10:52:57
Good job!
- Ron | samwisekoi
p.s. I was born in Southfield. Haven't been back this century however. Is it cold yet?
Post by: Spaceman1200 on Wed, 23 November 2016, 11:01:32
Nice! It is an amazing number of keycaps. I can't imagine what to do with an Fn layer!
Good job!
- Ron | samwisekoi
p.s. I was born in Southfield. Haven't been back this century however. Is it cold yet?
FN layer only has a few things on it right now, Just a boot key to get it into flash mode without hitting the button on the teensey and a few quick commands for my other monitor
Sweet! Never would have guessed you grew up around here. It's getting to be cold out around here, Not below freezing yet for the high's, but it is getting close.
Hope you are doing well my friend. hope to see more from you in the future! Maybe a R2 with Alps? :D
Post by: Data on Wed, 23 November 2016, 11:06:06
Finally snuck in some free time to get this guy together. Got the stab cutouts how they needed to be, But messed a few slightly up, so i had to throw some hot glue to keep em' put. Ignore the mismatched caps. didnt order enough relegendables!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/kRObxtx.jpg)
Superb layout. ;)
Post by: Spaceman1200 on Wed, 23 November 2016, 11:10:24
Finally snuck in some free time to get this guy together. Got the stab cutouts how they needed to be, But messed a few slightly up, so i had to throw some hot glue to keep em' put. Ignore the mismatched caps. didnt order enough relegendables!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/kRObxtx.jpg)
Superb layout. ;)
Thanks :D Wonder where i got it from? :DDD
Post by: samwisekoi on Sat, 26 November 2016, 12:55:24
[attach=1]
GH-122.2016 in the Unicomp PC-122 case.
My main Leopold TKL and JD45 are shown for reference. Also my 2TB coffee cup coaster.
I'll post interior pictures and spacer specs when I get this finalized.
- Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.
p.s. Now to see how it works in Half-Life...
Post by: Data on Sun, 27 November 2016, 16:12:48
Looks great.
Post by: AMongoose on Mon, 28 November 2016, 08:24:51
It is built! The GH-122.2016 in the $20 Unicomp case. It took >10 bucks of plastic spacers, some custom wiring to connect the top block and LED block, and (for now) quite a bit of hot glue. (Hot glue because it easy to heat and remove.)
(Attachment Link)
GH-122.2016 in the Unicomp PC-122 case.
My main Leopold TKL and JD45 are shown for reference. Also my 2TB coffee cup coaster.
I'll post interior pictures and spacer specs when I get this finalized.
- Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.
p.s. Now to see how it works in Half-Life...
Is that an fn key to the right of the right shift? Looks great.
Post by: samwisekoi on Mon, 28 November 2016, 11:26:07
Is that an fn key to the right of the right shift? Looks great.
M1 is a Macro key that turns the numpad into Macro strings. This is in addition to the Fn key (Left_Alt or AltGr) I use to create special characters like the Euro symbol. Fn(4) €
One interesting thing about the Teensy++ is that it has so much more memory than the Teensy that it could support way more Macros than Easy Keymap provides. With this many keys I don't need more macros, but more AltGr characters would be nice,and they take up Easy Keymap macro spaces as well.
M1(3) - Ron | samwisekoi
M1(6) Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.
M1(9) Easy Keymap 2.01.13c (GH-122 D0_NONUM) GH-122 122 ISO 161123a
Post by: Hak Foo on Mon, 28 November 2016, 23:21:19
Post by: MandrewDavis on Mon, 28 November 2016, 23:34:27
It is built! The GH-122.2016 in the $20 Unicomp case. It took >10 bucks of plastic spacers, some custom wiring to connect the top block and LED block, and (for now) quite a bit of hot glue. (Hot glue because it easy to heat and remove.)
(Attachment Link)MoreGH-122.2016 in the Unicomp PC-122 case.
My main Leopold TKL and JD45 are shown for reference. Also my 2TB coffee cup coaster.
I'll post interior pictures and spacer specs when I get this finalized.
- Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.
p.s. Now to see how it works in Half-Life...
Would love to see some of the innards, this whole project has really piqued my interest.
Post by: AMongoose on Tue, 29 November 2016, 07:21:03
M1(6) Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.
:))
Post by: Spaceman1200 on Tue, 29 November 2016, 08:45:50
Just curious-- Data and Spaceman1200, you used a top similar to mine, but it looks like you're getting way better LED output. I'm wondering if you did some sort of "light piping" or are just using retina-roasting LEDs?
I'm just using some spare red led's from maxkeyboard and 100 ohm resistors
Post by: samwisekoi on Tue, 29 November 2016, 13:42:51
So I've ordered up some micro AMP connectors and a 20-pin M/F housing pair that will move all of the connections to a single locking connector with every wire soldered to both PCBs.
Once I get that stuff in, I'll take some internal pics while I put it together.
- Ron | samwisekoi
(Auto-typed by my GH36 Matrix Keypad.)
Post by: Data on Tue, 29 November 2016, 14:29:29
Just curious-- Data and Spaceman1200, you used a top similar to mine, but it looks like you're getting way better LED output. I'm wondering if you did some sort of "light piping" or are just using retina-roasting LEDs?
Nothing special. I am using rather bright LEDs and I have them mounted about a quarter inch above the PCB, sticking up through the switch plate, and very nearly touching the underside of the top case plate. The resistors I chose are just the bare minimum for these LEDs and I kinda wish I had used bigger ones. :(
I've been tossing around some ideas to cut inserts out of translucent acrylic to diffuse the light a little, or a small piece of film tint to put under the top layer. It's really distracting.
Post by: samwisekoi on Wed, 30 November 2016, 12:34:31
Here are the things you need to do to the Unicomp case to enable the flat GH-122 PCB to fit in the curved case.
CASE BOTTOM:
#1 Trim four (4) plastic risers to .375" (9-10mm) to provide edge stops for the GH-122 PCB. The length is less critical than the need to have all four stops in a striaght line. These stops will align the keyboard up and down, and ensure a straight edge between the spacebar row and the bottom of the case opening.
I suggest populating the PCB, including keycaps, and setting it in the case. Then adjust it so all keycaps clear the openings in the top of the case. Then very carefully lift the top cover off, and mark where the bottom edge of the PCB must be. THEN carefully trim the four flanges to create bottom stops.
[attach=1]
#2 Attach .375" x 3" x .250" (10mm x 75mm x 6mm) spacers to both bottom edges of the case. These will center the PCB and keyboard in the case. Length is not critical, as long as they are long enough to allow attachment ABOVE the point where they contact the PCB. (This will be clear once you test fit the PCB.)
#3 Attach an 11.0625" x .625" x .250" (282mm x 16mm x 6mm) support between the existing support braces. You may have to trim the tips of the existing support braces -- I did. This support is critical to the feel of the keyboard, so make sure you like the resulting angle AND make sure the support is parallel to the bottom of the case.
[attach=2]
CASE TOP:
#4 Place a pair of spacers above and below the opening for the function key bank. The top spacer is 11.065" x .500" x .250" (295mm x 12mm x 6mm) The bottom space is .4375 (10mm) wide. These spacers ensure that the top bank is centered vertically, and provide a base for attachment of the PCB segment. They are also visible, so I suggest black plastic.
#5 [OPTIONAL] Attach an approximately 1" x 3" x .250" (25mm x 75mm x 6mm) support for the three LEDs. You can attach the LEDs directly to the top case, but I find drilling a few holes in a bit of plastic works much better. Drill the holes based on the LED overlay you chose. I am using the IBM-style overlay with the LEDs at the bottom, but Unicomp offers other styles and has multiple holes.
Regardless, you should hold the LED support under the holes and mark them accurately before drilling. The holes do NOT seem to be logically spaced, so mark it based on your actual case top.
[attach=3]
That blue bit is just a reflection.
Once I get the connectors for the harness I will post Part 2 of this guide.
- Ron | samwisekoi
p.s. I used hot glue so I could use a heat gun to remove anything I needed to remove while experimenting. Eventually I may replace all the hot glue with epoxy. Or not. Just an FYI about adhesives. Oh, I used acrylic for all the spacers, but that was for convenience. They could be oak, aluminum, or diamond-encrusted platinum™ if you like.
Post by: Data on Wed, 30 November 2016, 13:17:26
Post by: samwisekoi on Tue, 13 December 2016, 09:23:08
Am I the only person who has built one without a plate? The long board may dampen typing feel.
On the other hand, these giant keycaps may be the issue. With all of the SA group buys out there, someone must be running them on a 104-key keyboard with MX Brown switches. I did see a discussion about SA keycaps weighing more, and thereby effectively reducing the spring rate. So maybe heavier springs?
For those of you who have built GH-122s, how is the feel, and what switch/keycap combos are you using?
(On the other hand, I really, really like having that left-hand function block!)
- Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.
Post by: Data on Tue, 13 December 2016, 12:49:10
As far as typing feel, it's very rigid with a steel plate. It's also super hollow so it has a bit of a rough, edgy feel to it. It's hard to describe. But overall I'd say my experience has been markedly different from yours.
Post by: samwisekoi on Tue, 13 December 2016, 14:56:21
I use mine every day at work. I also have MX Browns, but only for the alphas, number pad, and F-row. I used Clears in the other locations. My keycaps are dye-sub PBT in the Cherry profile.
As far as typing feel, it's very rigid with a steel plate. It's also super hollow so it has a bit of a rough, edgy feel to it. It's hard to describe. But overall I'd say my experience has been markedly different from yours.
Thanks!
I am going to bring home a set of Cherry+GMK keycaps to try. I also checked to see that a 60% plate could be used with the Unicomp case. That wouldn't support the switches, but would add some rigidity.
Oh, and I also used "mostly" Browns. I added Greens for the arrows and Enter keys, plus another for the Copy key to ensure I could tell I hit that instead of Cut, Paste, or Undo. The two dozen function keys and the nav cluster are Blacks, and the spacebar is Grey.
Anyhow, thanks for your input. The experience you describe is the one I designed the board to give.
- Ron | samwisekoi
Typed on an actual F-122 without enough memory to create auto-type macros.
Post by: Hak Foo on Tue, 13 December 2016, 22:18:13
Post by: samwisekoi on Thu, 15 December 2016, 12:47:38
I did try Cherry keycaps, and those felt better, but are too low for the Unicomp case. Probably an R5 bottom row would work.
But in the meantime, I am searching for the right switch/spring combination that will work with these keycaps. I posted in the Zealio 4.5 thread to see what they say about a set of Zealio switches with one of the heavier springs.
Question: Has anyone else done a GH-122 with SA keycaps?
Thanks and best regards,
- Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.
Post by: samwisekoi on Sat, 17 December 2016, 13:28:15
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80473.msg2099113#msg2099113
Did I miss anyone? Please advise. Also let me know when you get one completed. (This especially includes you, 0100010 and AKmalamute.)
FYI and Thanks!
- Ron | samwisekoi
Gratuitous auto-typers all on the workbench today.
Post by: samwisekoi on Sun, 18 December 2016, 10:46:03
[attach=1]
Actual size is 1.70" x 0.70"
Anyhow, attached are the original files in DXF and VSD.
- Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.
Post by: samwisekoi on Tue, 20 December 2016, 19:45:38
Ron, the spacebar switch placement is perfect. It's just the stabilizer holes that are off-center. This is easily remedied with a plate-mount stab.
FYI, all of my builds are 1.5- -1.5-7.0-1.5- -1.5, so I don't use the ANSI spacebar any more. But I am working on a plate AND want to fix get this correct for the 2017 run. Can you (or someone) let me know what I did wrong with the 6.25 spacebar stabilizer mounting holes?
I used - or should have used - 50mm spacing from the center of the switch for the 6.25 stabs. So two questions:
#1 is 50mm from center correct for the 6.25 stabs?
#2 If I used the right total width (100mm), did I just put them in the wrong places relative to the switch?
Anyhow, thanks in advance for details on the correction I need to make.
- Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.
Post by: Data on Wed, 21 December 2016, 09:27:15
Reading through this thread to see if I missed anything, I saw a request for the vector file of the GH-122 badge. FYI, that badge is sized to fit the Unicomp case.
(Attachment Link)
Actual size is 1.70" x 0.70"
Anyhow, attached are the original files in DXF and VSD.
- Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.
That was me. Thanks.
I was going to have this cut directly into my case top in the big empty spot next to the lock indicators. But it's probably a good idea that I didn't have these vectors when I ordered because it would have increased the price dramatically. Silver lining. :D
It would have looked sweet, though.
Instead I'm tossing around some ideas to have a vinyl sticker made for that area.
Post by: Data on Wed, 21 December 2016, 09:33:35
Ron, the spacebar switch placement is perfect. It's just the stabilizer holes that are off-center. This is easily remedied with a plate-mount stab.
FYI, all of my builds are 1.5- -1.5-7.0-1.5- -1.5, so I don't use the ANSI spacebar any more. But I am working on a plate AND want to fix get this correct for the 2017 run. Can you (or someone) let me know what I did wrong with the 6.25 spacebar stabilizer mounting holes?
I used - or should have used - 50mm spacing from the center of the switch for the 6.25 stabs. So two questions:
#1 is 50mm from center correct for the 6.25 stabs?
#2 If I used the right total width (100mm), did I just put them in the wrong places relative to the switch?
Anyhow, thanks in advance for details on the correction I need to make.
- Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.
Sorry for the double post. I wanted to respond to this separately.
From my test plate photos here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80473.msg2205248#msg2205248):
(http://i.imgur.com/H9AbWTx.jpg)
I tried to show with the stabilizer wires where the holes should be. You can see that the 7-unit wire matches the hole placement in the PCB. But the 6.25-unit holes are not close. They might be centered relative to the switch but the dimensions are wrong. Honestly not sure what happened there.
I used a bone stock 6.25u wire and it matches the cutouts in my PETG test plate perfectly. Let me know if you need any more info.
Edit: I just eyeballed the distance from center-switch to the 6.25u stab holes in the PCB at 37mm using a metric ruler. So I guess there you go. :D 50mm is (or would be) correct as far as I can tell.
Post by: samwisekoi on Wed, 21 December 2016, 10:27:05
Those, my friend, I believe to be stabilizer holes for a Japanese spacebar. From the bottom row for all people and all situations. I thought I got rid of those! Apparently, however, I got rid of the switch position and kept the stabilizers, and then did the reverse for the 6.25. Grrr.
Anyhow, thanks!
- Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.
Post by: samwisekoi on Wed, 21 December 2016, 11:18:53
[attach=1]
Semi-universal plate for GH-122.2016-2017.
This plate is designed to the same dimensions as the PCB, and will support standard ANSI with 104 or full function keys, as well as ISO Enter with split right shift. (The weird slices on the function key cutouts are cutaway ribs to allow 104-style function rows with offset F5-F8.) It also supports single or double keys in the upper-left block, the numpad, and the backspace. Stepped and non-stepped Caps keys are supported, and Cherry plate-mount stabilizers for the 6.25 spacebar (using 50mm centers!).
I will probably add guides for cutting the plate to fit the Unicomp case, and to be used in a 5x24 wide-body configuration.
Anyhow, my testing shows that this PCB likes a plate, and for five or more plates, Big Blue Saw wants $82 in raw stainless steel.
I wiil probably have some made for a 2017 run of PCBs, and I wondered if any of the current builders are interested.
Please reply here if this might be for you, and if there is a cutout you think I missed.
Thanks very much,
- Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.
[attachimg=2]
Post by: Data on Wed, 21 December 2016, 13:14:36
You're welcome and thank you for the two posts.
Those, my friend, I believe to be stabilizer holes for a Japanese spacebar. From the bottom row for all people and all situations. I thought I got rid of those! Apparently, however, I got rid of the switch position and kept the stabilizers, and then did the reverse for the 6.25. Grrr.
Anyhow, thanks!
- Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.
Happy to help. This has been a fun and challenging build from start to finish.
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Wed, 21 December 2016, 20:06:08
Anyone interested in an ANSI/ISO plate?
(Attachment Link)
Semi-universal plate for GH-122.2016-2017.
This plate is designed to the same dimensions as the PCB, and will support standard ANSI with 104 or full function keys, as well as ISO Enter with split right shift. (The weird slices on the function key cutouts are cutaway ribs to allow 104-style function rows with offset F5-F8.) It also supports single or double keys in the upper-left block, the numpad, and the backspace. Stepped and non-stepped Caps keys are supported, and Cherry plate-mount stabilizers for the 6.25 spacebar (using 50mm centers!).
I will probably add guides for cutting the plate to fit the Unicomp case, and to be used in a 5x24 wide-body configuration.
Anyhow, my testing shows that this PCB likes a plate, and for five or more plates, Big Blue Saw wants $82 in raw stainless steel.
I wiil probably have some made for a 2017 run of PCBs, and I wondered if any of the current builders are interested.
Please reply here if this might be for you, and if there is a cutout you think I missed.
Thanks very much,
- Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.
(Attachment Link)
I would be interested! What would be the added cost for switch modding cuts?
Post by: samwisekoi on Thu, 22 December 2016, 10:08:56
I would be interested! What would be the added cost for switch modding cuts?
I don't know, mostly because I've never designed or made a plate with the complicated cut-outs for modding. Probably because I mod with a soldering iron ;^)
I'll draw up a smaller sample plate both ways and find out the pricing delta for water jet cuts.
Does anyone know of a source for on-line quotes for laser cutting?
- Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.
Post by: Data on Thu, 22 December 2016, 11:56:27
http://lasergist.com/
Post by: samwisekoi on Thu, 22 December 2016, 12:28:13
A lot of GeekHackers have been using Lasergist lately with good results. Have not used them myself. They are stainless steel only.
http://lasergist.com/
Thanks! This plate falls into the "contact us" size, so I have contacted them to see about estmated pricing.
Thanks again,
- Ron | samwisekoi
Post by: Hak Foo on Sun, 25 December 2016, 11:25:28
Post by: samwisekoi on Mon, 26 December 2016, 14:02:23
One thing you might want to look into with it-- when I did my plate, I found that the price difference to add top and bottom plates was only like $15. You might want to inquire about economies of scale for including bottom plates, at least; top ones might vary quite a bit.
Thank you, yes. That is a very good idea.
My bottom plate would be .250" larger on each side, or .500" taller and .500" wider, but the same material with just a few holes might make things cheaper in volume indeed.
Thanks very much!
- Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.
Post by: samwisekoi on Mon, 26 December 2016, 18:52:27
I am going to test qty=1 from Shapeways for $115 USD. Depending on material and volume, a top cover adds $25-45 from Big Blue Saw.
It would be excellent to get this cast in metal, but for now 3D-printing is the plan.
- Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.
Post by: xondat on Mon, 26 December 2016, 19:24:10
Post by: xondat on Tue, 27 December 2016, 06:34:26
Regarding an all-metal case, oddly enough I have an 8x20" chunk of .250" aluminum for a base plate right here. Not looking forward to cutting and sanding it. But yeah, all-metal would be awesome!
- Ron | samwisekoi
(http://i.imgur.com/MbtSROK.png)
6 months late, but I'll have this made when the 2017 GB happens. This version is based around the 2016 files, as that's all that's available, but I'll be able to make the necessary changes for next year. The only thing I'm struggling with is the Teensy++ USB port and where it is in relation (as I don't have a PCB file, only a mid-plate). If anyone could help me with that, then I'd appreciate it.
Post by: henz on Tue, 27 December 2016, 06:36:49
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Tue, 27 December 2016, 15:52:06
Regarding an all-metal case, oddly enough I have an 8x20" chunk of .250" aluminum for a base plate right here. Not looking forward to cutting and sanding it. But yeah, all-metal would be awesome!
- Ron | samwisekoiShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/MbtSROK.png)
6 months late, but I'll have this made when the 2017 GB happens. This version is based around the 2016 files, as that's all that's available, but I'll be able to make the necessary changes for next year. The only thing I'm struggling with is the Teensy++ USB port and where it is in relation (as I don't have a PCB file, only a mid-plate). If anyone could help me with that, then I'd appreciate it.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/FRXlS4M.png)
Oh and it weighs 3900 grams. Or 8.6 lbs. I was going to add a brass weight, but I think it would take it over 6kg.. so I'll skip that for now. There are 16 (8 each side) top mounting points for the plate, and 10 (5 each side) holes to join the top/bottom. Probably going to have 8 feet as well.
Regarding the LED holes, I know they're too big but I'll add a small acrylic/polycarbonate piece under them to diffuse them and fix that up later when I have more information. The engraving will be quite shallow, .5mm at the minute, as there are quite a lot of small parts to it.
The plate is also not final - I meant to have a winkeyless bottom row, and also a stepped caps, but I forgot when initially starting so I'll edit that later on too. If there are any other things I should change regarding the plate then let me know and I can incorporate it. Oh, and switch opening is a must in my eyes, I can change the style to the image below, or remove it completely too. I'll also clean up the stabilizer holes when I can be bothered.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/spqC3JD.png)
I'll quickly touch on price - it shouldn't be as bad as mentioned, perhaps only $400 max although that'd be with only 2/3 colors and no plate/top options etc. Removing the brass weigh will lower the price compared to my other cases which is why that price is achievable.
Mane, that's killer :thumb:
Post by: Data on Thu, 29 December 2016, 12:55:30
Regarding an all-metal case, oddly enough I have an 8x20" chunk of .250" aluminum for a base plate right here. Not looking forward to cutting and sanding it. But yeah, all-metal would be awesome!
- Ron | samwisekoiShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/MbtSROK.png)
6 months late, but I'll have this made when the 2017 GB happens. This version is based around the 2016 files, as that's all that's available, but I'll be able to make the necessary changes for next year. The only thing I'm struggling with is the Teensy++ USB port and where it is in relation (as I don't have a PCB file, only a mid-plate). If anyone could help me with that, then I'd appreciate it.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/FRXlS4M.png)
Oh and it weighs 3900 grams. Or 8.6 lbs. I was going to add a brass weight, but I think it would take it over 6kg.. so I'll skip that for now. There are 16 (8 each side) top mounting points for the plate, and 10 (5 each side) holes to join the top/bottom. Probably going to have 8 feet as well.
Regarding the LED holes, I know they're too big but I'll add a small acrylic/polycarbonate piece under them to diffuse them and fix that up later when I have more information. The engraving will be quite shallow, .5mm at the minute, as there are quite a lot of small parts to it.
The plate is also not final - I meant to have a winkeyless bottom row, and also a stepped caps, but I forgot when initially starting so I'll edit that later on too. If there are any other things I should change regarding the plate then let me know and I can incorporate it. Oh, and switch opening is a must in my eyes, I can change the style to the image below, or remove it completely too. I'll also clean up the stabilizer holes when I can be bothered.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/spqC3JD.png)
I'll quickly touch on price - it shouldn't be as bad as mentioned, perhaps only $400 max although that'd be with only 2/3 colors and no plate/top options etc. Removing the brass weigh will lower the price compared to my other cases which is why that price is achievable.
Wow. :eek:
Post by: 0100010 on Sun, 06 August 2017, 11:06:54
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Sun, 06 August 2017, 17:07:16
Cross post : I finally (mostly finished) my GH-122 : https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80326.msg2470914#msg2470914 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80326.msg2470914#msg2470914)
I'll need the plate file.
Post by: 0100010 on Sun, 06 August 2017, 20:18:35
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Sun, 06 August 2017, 21:15:03
Pretty sure this is the one I had BBS cut for me (attached). I was not completely happy with the costar stab locations though - had to sand the top side of the key inserts to get clearance (which is an issue I vaguely recall others commenting about using same DXFs from the master CAD thread).
Good to know. I am terrible with CAD and would probably be using cherry stabs any way so I guess I would need to confirm the measurements and such
Post by: 0100010 on Sun, 06 August 2017, 21:56:26