geekhack

geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: swimmingbird on Sat, 19 March 2016, 22:28:21

Title: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: swimmingbird on Sat, 19 March 2016, 22:28:21
You may have seen this in some of the Ivan threads but I wanted to have a dedicated thread for it as well so people could be updated on progress

Here's the post as it appears on scam therapy

IF YOU ARE PART OF AN IVAN GROUP BUY PLEASE READ

More than a reasonable amount of time has passed for Ivan to come forward and explain the situation.
I am now putting together as much evidence as I can to present to the relevant authorities.
I am calling on everyone who has participated in an affected Group Buy to forward me their relevant PayPal transaction details so that we have a solid case if the time calls for it.
The more evidence we gather, the better chance we have of this being taken seriously and getting our money back.

Please send the following:
- Paypal invoice from Ivan for relevant GB
- Paypal receipt from relevant GB
- Your contact details, including name, geekhack username, phone number and address [optional]

to
ivanevidence@gmail.com

The more evidence we get the better chance we have of getting our money back.
If any moderator wants to come forward and take sole or shared ownership of this email address for the sake of oversight please PM me.

If any of you are worried about sending me your personal information, please PM me and we can discuss you sending your evidence directly when the time calls for it.
Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTION ACTION THREAD
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 19 March 2016, 22:31:18
I don't know how I feel about this.

I realise that he has done bad by a lot of people, but I don't know if this is actually the best, or even a valid course of action.
Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTION ACTION THREAD
Post by: swimmingbird on Sat, 19 March 2016, 22:50:26
Quote from: katushkin on Sat, 19 March 2016, 22:31:18
I don't know how I feel about this.

I realise that he has done bad by a lot of people, but I don't know if this is actually the best, or even a valid course of action.

I want Ivan to take this seriously

By not coming on a forum from which you have received tens of thousands of dollars you are not taking things seriously

I will take this as seriously as I have to
Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 20 March 2016, 00:46:38
Is Ivan in the USA ?
Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: HPE1000 on Sun, 20 March 2016, 00:49:09
Quote from: tp4tissue on Sun, 20 March 2016, 00:46:38
Is Ivan in the USA ?
I believe so
Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 20 March 2016, 00:52:43
Quote from: HPE1000 on Sun, 20 March 2016, 00:49:09
Quote from: tp4tissue on Sun, 20 March 2016, 00:46:38
Is Ivan in the USA ?
I believe so


Oh that's good..  no where to run if you're in the USA..  Once the police are involved, they will find Ivan quite easily..


But of course we should absolutely be sure that Ivan is 100% scammer first..
Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: Karura on Sun, 20 March 2016, 00:59:46
Without any proper legal representation, I understand why people may be hesitant to divulge their information.

If you have an attorney or legal representative building a case, it would be wise to share that information, as people will be more comfortable in sharing their information.

Offering to pass on the private personal information collected to a GH moderator or GH moderation team (which I might clarify, is a non-elected, private group of people) might not be the best idea, as it is not their responsibility or privilege to access such information.

If you can clearly and transparently state how exactly the information will be used, as well as who exactly the "relevant authorities" are, it would help quite a bit in building trust.

Just some food for thought.
Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: swimmingbird on Sun, 20 March 2016, 01:39:07
I totally understand any hesitation in sending this random guy on the internet your personal information.

At this point what I would suggest is for people to go back to the invoice email they received from Ivan and click "View and Pay Invoice" - it will show a paid invoice, with the only personal information on display being your paypal email address. Even if you blur this out and send it to the email account mentioned it will be very helpful as we can use the invoice ID's to identify unique transactions

I am totally open to who has access to the info - if there is someone who you feel would be suitable please suggest them. Also, at this point I couldn't really care about personal info - as long as I have a username from reddit or GH and an idea on what they are waiting on that is sufficient. It's really about uniting everyone who is affected into a actionable group of people

Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 20 March 2016, 06:13:16
Yes good call..

You guys can blur out identifying information such as address / name / etc.

Just need a large paper trail with unique invoice IDs..


That way it proves that the transaction occured, and you're one of the victims..

Only paypal or the police-through-paypal  will be able to see your actual addresses and names.


Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: PunksDead on Sun, 20 March 2016, 06:14:31
(http://i.imgur.com/hiu4Nlt.jpg)
Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: swimmingbird on Sun, 20 March 2016, 06:39:20
Quote from: PunksDead on Sun, 20 March 2016, 06:14:31
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/hiu4Nlt.jpg)


[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: unipsykal on Sun, 20 March 2016, 12:16:01
What do you mean by relevant authorities? Local PoPo in Des Moines? IC3?
I'm confused.. seems Paypal would be the people to report this to.
Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: naasfu on Sun, 20 March 2016, 18:56:34
i just submitted my info.  thanks for organizing this, swimmingbird.  i paid nearly $200 for a full miami nights order.

it sounds like you are already doing this, but i would prefer we give ivan some time to respond before any formal action is taken.  he has been one of my GH GB organizer heroes, and i still have some faith that he will take care of these outstanding GBs.
Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: metalliqaz on Sun, 20 March 2016, 19:01:17
Maybe you should let the forum know what it is you're actually planning on doing.  Going to Paypal or going to the police, I don't see how either would require anyone's transaction information other than your own.
Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: taylordcraig on Sun, 20 March 2016, 21:51:28
Quote from: metalliqaz on Sun, 20 March 2016, 19:01:17
Maybe you should let the forum know what it is you're actually planning on doing.  Going to Paypal or going to the police, I don't see how either would require anyone's transaction information other than your own.

Quote from: naasfu on Sun, 20 March 2016, 18:56:34
i just submitted my info.  thanks for organizing this, swimmingbird.  i paid nearly $200 for a full miami nights order.

it sounds like you are already doing this, but i would prefer we give ivan some time to respond before any formal action is taken.  he has been one of my GH GB organizer heroes, and i still have some faith that he will take care of these outstanding GBs.


I emailed Ivan last week asking him to come clean or present an alibi and never heard anything back.

Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: swimmingbird on Mon, 21 March 2016, 22:58:22
The question about which authority is somewhat irrelevant at this point

It's really about collecting information that we can present to whomever at an appropriate point
Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: ideus on Mon, 21 March 2016, 23:23:31
To issue a privacy statement and a non-disclosure agreement for the information submitted is advisable.
Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: swimmingbird on Tue, 22 March 2016, 03:02:54
Ok... quick privacy and non disclosure statement then...

I will not release any of your personal information such as name, address, geekhack/reddit/deskthority username, phone number without your express permission.

I do intend to release information about the number of people who have contacted me, how many sets have been ordered and the dollar value of orders but I will not release any personal information whatsoever.
Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: Wannabe on Tue, 22 March 2016, 09:08:53
Has anybody else tried issuing a chargeback through their bank/credit card yet? I contacted my bank and am hoping to hear back from them "after they investigate". I'd like to give Ivan the benefit of the doubt and don't believe the original intentions of these buys were to scam people, but due to his absolute complete lack of communication (especially in the Red Scarf GB where his last post was on Aug 5th....five days before orders closed), what other choice is there besides contacting the bank or gathering evidence to submit to authorities? We waited patiently for months with no updates and assurances from other participants that it would be ok...that Ivan sometimes just takes a really long time. We gave him the benefit of the doubt and didn't issue Paypal disputes when he commented in one of the keycap GB's asking people to stop sending Paypal disputes.  I want my keyboard or my money back. I'd still love to receive that keyboard. But it doesn't look like the keyboard will be happening, so I'd like my money back and have the right to pursue every option available to getting it back. Yes there are inherent risks in participating in GB and everybody participating in any GB, no matter how trustworthy the runner seems to be, should be prepared for this situation to happen and shouldn't participate in a GB if something like this could mess with their finances so much. But that doesn't mean that we should just accept that we won't be receiving the product we ordered or our money back and that we shouldn't pursue all reasonable options to try and reach some of conclusion to this.
Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 24 March 2016, 23:45:14
I've sent an update email to everyone who has reached me on the gmail address

If you don't get it for some reason the gist of it is reach out to paypal as soon as possible and file a claim with them

Even though it is outside of the 180 day dispute period if enough people come forward they can investigate Ivan and take action against him
Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: Wannabe on Mon, 28 March 2016, 09:47:29
I have tried submitting claims and complaints via https://www.paypal.com/selfhelp/contact/email (https://www.paypal.com/selfhelp/contact/email) and continue to only get automated responses telling me how to submit a dispute. Guess I'm going to have to try calling Paypal?
Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: swimmingbird on Tue, 29 March 2016, 06:08:45
Quote from: Wannabe on Mon, 28 March 2016, 09:47:29
I have tried submitting claims and complaints via https://www.paypal.com/selfhelp/contact/email (https://www.paypal.com/selfhelp/contact/email) and continue to only get automated responses telling me how to submit a dispute. Guess I'm going to have to try calling Paypal?

Yeah I would just call them
Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: Wannabe on Tue, 29 March 2016, 08:09:20
Quote from: swimmingbird on Tue, 29 March 2016, 06:08:45
Quote from: Wannabe on Mon, 28 March 2016, 09:47:29
I have tried submitting claims and complaints via https://www.paypal.com/selfhelp/contact/email (https://www.paypal.com/selfhelp/contact/email) and continue to only get automated responses telling me how to submit a dispute. Guess I'm going to have to try calling Paypal?

Yeah I would just call them

Yea it seems that's what I'm going to have to do. I continue to get automated responses to my replies in the message center. The last one I received said they couldn't do anything after 45 days and I should try working with the seller directly, even though I have tried to tell them the seller is unresponsive and that they should at least flag and review his account. It has been over 10 days and I have not heard a peep from my bank about the dispute I've filed. I've pretty much given up on getting my money back. Sucks.
Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: metalliqaz on Tue, 29 March 2016, 09:53:25
Have any of you tried calling him at home?  That usually gets better results.
Title: Re: IVAN COLLECTIVE ACTION THREAD
Post by: Wannabe on Thu, 31 March 2016, 08:24:11
Just got this reply from Paypal:

Quote
Thank you for contacting PayPal with your concern.

PayPal appreciates the feedback and will take action on this matter accordingly.

You can still file a report online through the Internet Crime Complaint Center, or IC3.

The IC3 was established as a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the National White Collar Crime Center (NW3C) to serve as a means to receive Internet related criminal complaints.

The IC3 accepts online Internet crime complaints from either the actual victim or from a third party to the complainant. They will process your complaint if they receive accurate and complete information from you. When filing a complaint, provide the following information:

Your name
Your mailing address
Your telephone number
The name, address, telephone number, and Web address, if available, of the individual or organization you believe defrauded you.
Specific details on how, why, and when you believe you were defrauded.
Any other relevant information you believe is necessary to support your complaint.
You can file a complaint with the IC3 at www.ic3.gov.

To learn more about PayPal's Buyer Protection Policy, go to www.paypal.com and click Security at the bottom of the page.

Please let me know if you need further assistance.

Sincerely,
Aiman Idayu
Protection Services Department
PayPal