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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: RollRoll on Thu, 24 March 2016, 17:29:49
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For the last week I've been typing on a newly bought Leopold FC750R with brown switches. The keyboard feels and sounds very solid, so I quite like it except for the fact that there is a marked difference in switch feel from key to key. This is the first brown-switch keyboard that I've used, so I don't know what to expect exactly, but I've been typing on a WASD with red switches for a few years now and I've never felt any significant inconsistency between the keys.
With the "normal" feeling keys, I feel a completely smooth downward travel for a very short distance, followed by resistance, and then a "break" point after applying enough force followed by completely smooth travel until bottoming out. On the upward return the key snaps up readily and you can feel the spring just before it reaches resting position.
However, with some keys the feeling is rather different. Basically they feel heavy and mushy, and even though I can feel the bump as I press downward the "breaking" feeling is more gradual. On the upward return it almost feels as though the key gets stuck: it's just a sluggish, reluctant return.
So is this typical for brown switches? Do I have to live with this inconsistency or will the mushy keys break in at some point and become like the normal ones? None of the keys malfunction in any way, but I bought the keyboard primarily for an improved typing experience (as reds can feel a little too light for fast typing sometimes) and this inconsistency is making me want to return it.
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For the last week I've been typing on a newly bought Leopold FC750R with brown switches. The keyboard feels and sounds very solid, so I quite like it except for the fact that there is a marked difference in switch feel from key to key. This is the first brown-switch keyboard that I've used, so I don't know what to expect exactly, but I've been typing on a WASD with red switches for a few years now and I've never felt any significant inconsistency between the keys.
With the "normal" feeling keys, I feel a completely smooth downward travel for a very short distance, followed by resistance, and then a "break" point after applying enough force followed by completely smooth travel until bottoming out. On the upward return the key snaps up readily and you can feel the spring just before it reaches resting position.
However, with some keys the feeling is rather different. Basically they feel heavy and mushy, and even though I can feel the bump as I press downward the "breaking" feeling is more gradual. On the upward return it almost feels as though the key gets stuck: it's just a sluggish, reluctant return.
So is this typical for brown switches? Do I have to live with this inconsistency or will the mushy keys break in at some point and become like the normal ones? None of the keys malfunction in any way, but I bought the keyboard primarily for an improved typing experience (as reds can feel a little too light for fast typing sometimes) and this inconsistency is making me want to return it.
One of the best things about cherry switches is they are fairly consistent compared to switches with more variance within their tolerances for weighting (kailh) so if it's a new board and the variance is that wild i would RMA it personally.
I have a good amount of inconsistencies within mx blues from batch to batch (Though it seems many have with blues specifically as of late) but with browns i have never experienced anything like that.
Only thing i'd ask are those mushy keys modifier keys? As that board uses cherry stabilizers which are known for being fairly mushy.
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One of the best things about cherry switches is they are fairly consistent compared to switches with more variance within their tolerances for weighting (kailh) so if it's a new board and the variance is that wild i would RMA it personally.
I have a good amount of inconsistencies within mx blues from batch to batch (Though it seems many have with blues specifically as of late) but with browns i have never experienced anything like that.
Only thing i'd ask are those mushy keys modifier keys? As that board uses cherry stabilizers which are known for being fairly mushy.
Thanks for the reply. It's not the modifier keys that feel mushy, it just random ones. Like the a key feels fine, but the s key feels heavy/sticky, and the i key feels fine, but the o and p keys feel heavy/sticky, etc. Actually though I rather like the Cherry stabilizers, even though they are a bit mushy they feel more solid to me than the usually wiggly Costars. Maybe it's just the Leopold sound-absorbing pad but the Cherry modifiers have a satisfying, thick sound.
Anyway, yeah I think I will return the keyboard for refund. I bought it from mechanicalkeyboards.com and they don't do exchanges (and I don't want them to take 3 weeks to repair a new keyboard) so I'll just have to take the ~$30 hit on the restocking fee (or whatever it is). I wish buying keyboards wasn't such a crapshoot...
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it's a feature of brown switches.
they're all suppose to feel bad.
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it's a feature of brown switches.
they're all suppose to feel bad.
Demik just wants to followup with a speech to convince you to buy a HHKB :p
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Could be debris inside the switch housing, or the switch housing itself could have a manufacturing defect.
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I don't actually use or understand Twitter, but...
#CherryQualityIn2016
Am I doing it right?
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One of the best things about cherry switches is they are fairly consistent compared to switches with more variance within their tolerances for weighting (kailh) so if it's a new board and the variance is that wild i would RMA it personally.
I have a good amount of inconsistencies within mx blues from batch to batch (Though it seems many have with blues specifically as of late) but with browns i have never experienced anything like that.
Only thing i'd ask are those mushy keys modifier keys? As that board uses cherry stabilizers which are known for being fairly mushy.
Thanks for the reply. It's not the modifier keys that feel mushy, it just random ones. Like the a key feels fine, but the s key feels heavy/sticky, and the i key feels fine, but the o and p keys feel heavy/sticky, etc. Actually though I rather like the Cherry stabilizers, even though they are a bit mushy they feel more solid to me than the usually wiggly Costars. Maybe it's just the Leopold sound-absorbing pad but the Cherry modifiers have a satisfying, thick sound.
Anyway, yeah I think I will return the keyboard for refund. I bought it from mechanicalkeyboards.com and they don't do exchanges (and I don't want them to take 3 weeks to repair a new keyboard) so I'll just have to take the ~$30 hit on the restocking fee (or whatever it is). I wish buying keyboards wasn't such a crapshoot...
Is it feeling that way when you type? Pressing browns slowly you will feel some differences in them..especially because you're coming from reds which are completely smooth all the way down..
Browns break in though..and when you've used them a lot they becomes very nice....and when you're typing you don't notice what you're talking about above at all...
I'd say browns feel the worst new and when you press them slowly...but when worn in they're probably the best cherry switch...
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I don't actually use or understand Twitter, but...
#CherryQualityIn2016
Am I doing it right?
#DontMakeThemLikeTheyUsedTo
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it's a feature of brown switches.
they're all suppose to feel bad.
Demik just wants to followup with a speech to convince you to buy a HHKB :p
I'm sure he would. Can't justify buying a kb that is that expensive without dedicated arrow keys. Inb4 "but fn+ijkm" yeah but I like the ortholinearity while playing Crypt of the Necrodancer.
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nah im done convincing people of anything
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fujitsu hasn't cut me a check for it
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aint doing **** unless i get something in return
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Is it feeling that way when you type? Pressing browns slowly you will feel some differences in them..especially because you're coming from reds which are completely smooth all the way down..
Browns break in though..and when you've used them a lot they becomes very nice....and when you're typing you don't notice what you're talking about above at all...
I'd say browns feel the worst new and when you press them slowly...but when worn in they're probably the best cherry switch...
It is definitely more noticeable when I press them slowly to test them, but I still feel the differences when I'm typing fast. The "bad" keys feel substantially heavier. For instance, the p key is one of the heavy ones, and since I have to press it with my little finger it's actually fatiguing compared to my WASD even though reds and browns are both listed as 45g. The heavy keys also really stand out when I have to repeat a letter, since the key feels slower to return to before the actuation point so that I can press it again.
The possibility of break-in gives me a little hope, since now that I remember it some of the reds on my WASD made audible "springy" noises that eventually disappeared. However, the amount of variance between the "normal" browns, which have a noticeable bump, the "light" ones (I didn't mention these because I don't have too much of a problem with them) which feel almost like reds, and the heavy ones is just really way more pronounced than I ever would have thought.
I wanted to switch to browns because the reds are so easy to press that sometimes I lose track of whether I pressed them at all, so I repeat or omit a key when typing fast. But I think I prefer that problem to one where it feels like the keyboard was assembled from a grab bag of 2 or 3 different switch types.
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MK.com has an excellent record for custom relations (and even an active presence on Geekhack) - maybe try asking what options there are.
I have a Ducky with MX blues that had several inconsistent switches across the board, including a couple that didn't click properly. Mashing those keys for a while seems to have pretty much solved the problem.
I ended up lending that keyboard to someone at work, and he uses it all day every day. It hasn't missed a beat.