geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: soundtester on Fri, 01 April 2016, 22:48:23
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So I got my Filco majestouch 2 mx cherry black yesterday and trying to get used to the stiffness of the switch. It does cause fatigue in my hands like people have been saying. For those of you who have owned mx cherry black switch and have used only mx cherry blacks, how long did it take you to adjust to it? Adjust to it as in no more fatigue.
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I have the purple Zealio 65g switches that I'm using right now. Honestly I adjusted to it really fast. Only took a day or two to get used to it. This was my first board that didn't have red or brown. I have always done red or brown since I was worried about fatigue. But now I use the 65g Zealio board at work for 8 hours a day and typing on it is great. However, gaming not so much. I tried to play a shooter with it yesterday, but trying to move around with WASD and keeping the keys pressed while running was kinda difficult. I ended up grabbing a red MX board instead.
Are you primarily using the black switch for gaming or typing?
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I'm assuming there are a lot of variables in this, but I usually like to give things like mice or keyboards 1-2 weeks with moderate usage before I am "accustomed to it". With that being said, if you are experiencing a ton of fatigue, maybe black switches aren't for you. I don't use my space invader with black click switches anymore, partly due to them making me fatigued. How heavy are blacks?
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My second modern mechanical switch was black, my first was blue.
It didn't take me long once I realised that I prefered heavier switches. After using the blacks for a couple of days I found it difficult to go back to blues.
I subsequently got a keyboard with greens.
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I have the purple Zealio 65g switches that I'm using right now. Honestly I adjusted to it really fast. Only took a day or two to get used to it. This was my first board that didn't have red or brown. I have always done red or brown since I was worried about fatigue. But now I use the 65g Zealio board at work for 8 hours a day and typing on it is great. However, gaming not so much. I tried to play a shooter with it yesterday, but trying to move around with WASD and keeping the keys pressed while running was kinda difficult. I ended up grabbing a red MX board instead.
Are you primarily using the black switch for gaming or typing?
Do you think this 65g force is beneficial to typing? It's great if it doesn't work for games. I'm not a gamer :)
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My second modern mechanical switch was black, my first was blue.
It didn't take me long once I realised that I prefered heavier switches. After using the blacks for a couple of days I found it difficult to go back to blues.
I subsequently got a keyboard with greens.
Greens are 80 wow! That actually makes me feel a lot better about my blacks ;P
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It definitely depends on the person. I don't like blacks at all. Not tactile and very "heavy". Sold the Filco MJ2 I had.
The WASD I have is populated with Greens which I love, but they cause discomfort after a few days of heavy typing.
My daily driver is an '87 SSK ((NIB))very crisp compared to the used one I had been using)) and it's definitely my favorite out of the bunch.
Like the others suggest, try it out for at least a week before you decide to toss it. ;)
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I'm assuming there are a lot of variables in this, but I usually like to give things like mice or keyboards 1-2 weeks with moderate usage before I am "accustomed to it". With that being said, if you are experiencing a ton of fatigue, maybe black switches aren't for you. I don't use my space invader with black click switches anymore, partly due to them making me fatigued. How heavy are blacks?
Well not a ton of fatigue to the point where I'm really uncomfortable. It's the second day for me, so I'll give it 1-2 weeks to see if it's really for me
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It definitely depends on the person. I don't like blacks at all. Not tactile and very "heavy". Sold the Filco MJ2 I had.
The WASD I have is populated with Greens which I love, but they cause discomfort after a few days of heavy typing.
My daily driver is an '87 SSK ((NIB))very crisp compared to the used one I had been using)) and it's definitely my favorite out of the bunch.
Like the others suggest, try it out for at least a week before you decide to toss it. ;)
Isn't green harder to press on?
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Yes, but I don't bottom out with greens like I tend to do with linear switches. That's what I like about tactile switches. They let me know when to stop pressing. And as you get to the bottom of the key press on blacks the force goes up pretty high.
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It definitely depends on the person. I don't like blacks at all. Not tactile and very "heavy". Sold the Filco MJ2 I had.
The WASD I have is populated with Greens which I love, but they cause discomfort after a few days of heavy typing.
My daily driver is an '87 SSK ((NIB))very crisp compared to the used one I had been using)) and it's definitely my favorite out of the bunch.
Like the others suggest, try it out for at least a week before you decide to toss it. ;)
I just got a Cherry numpad with blacks and I don't think I'd want a full keyboard with them. I've read before that they where used in settings where people could be using the buttons with gloves. That makes sense. I find it's nice for pecking the keys, but I wouldn't want to have to hold down modifiers while doing graphics programs key commands or holding hold those buttons down continuously for gaming.
I'd like something maybe a slight bit heavier than browns, but I am finding that using Cherry profile caps over OEM helps them feel more firm.
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I'd like something maybe a slight bit heavier than browns, but I am finding that using Cherry profile caps over OEM helps them feel more firm.
I'll have to give the Cherry caps a shot.
I'd love something heavier than brown/blue, but a little lighter than greens. My first MX board was Leopold with blues and I used the **** out of it. After going to BS blues are just too light.
Everyone has different tastes though.
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I'd like something maybe a slight bit heavier than browns, but I am finding that using Cherry profile caps over OEM helps them feel more firm.
I'll have to give the Cherry caps a shot.
I'd love something heavier than brown/blue, but a little lighter than greens. My first MX board was Leopold with blues and I used the **** out of it. After going to BS blues are just too light.
Everyone has different tastes though.
Strange thing you mention about that, because after using blacks for a day, NOW brown switch feels incredibly light. Maybe heavier switch makes finger stronger?
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Maybe, or maybe you just get used to heavier switches?
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Maybe, or maybe you just get used to heavier switches?
Hope so. Because I been training on typeracer for the past 6 hours. lol.
Also another point I'd like to make about my experience w/ my new mx cherry black is that I feel I have to be more accurate. I notice I'm making less and less typos. There's a price you pay if you make typos on the blacks.
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I'd like something maybe a slight bit heavier than browns, but I am finding that using Cherry profile caps over OEM helps them feel more firm.
I'll have to give the Cherry caps a shot.
I'd love something heavier than brown/blue, but a little lighter than greens. My first MX board was Leopold with blues and I used the **** out of it. After going to BS blues are just too light.
Everyone has different tastes though.
Plus, people are physically different. I'm a more slender person and don't weigh a lot, so my hands just work well with browns. I never feel like I am accidentally pressing them.
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Strangely there were switches in the past that I didn't like but after trying many types of switches coming back to them they were much better than I remembered. It usually takes me a day to get accustom to new switches. Layouts are a whole nother thing though..
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Strangely there were switches in the past that I didn't like but after trying many types of switches coming back to them they were much better than I remembered. It usually takes me a day to get accustom to new switches. Layouts are a whole nother thing though..
It would be nice to know more people locally into keyboards. I'd love to try different boards but I'd have to buy them. I've been wanting to try Greens, Clears, and Matias switches but there's no way I can afford to buy them. Browns at least work for me in general. Way better than the rubber-domes I've used for years.
I really do like the blacks in this numpad though, just worried about having an ENTIRE board with them. I have a Dell AT101 in the mail with Black Alps, so at least that's something different to try.
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Strangely there were switches in the past that I didn't like but after trying many types of switches coming back to them they were much better than I remembered. It usually takes me a day to get accustom to new switches. Layouts are a whole nother thing though..
It would be nice to know more people locally into keyboards. I'd love to try different boards but I'd have to buy them. I've been wanting to try Greens, Clears, and Matias switches but there's no way I can afford to buy them. Browns at least work for me in general. Way better than the rubber-domes I've used for years.
I really do like the blacks in this numpad though, just worried about having an ENTIRE board with them. I have a Dell AT101 in the mail with Black Alps, so at least that's something different to try.
(Attachment Link)
Isn't it weird to have blacks on numberpad and something else on the other ?
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I come from using Topre 45g and Cherry MX Reds in the last 5 years.
Recently started using a vintage MX Blacks with 68g springs and at first they were a little fatiguing.
Two weeks later, I really appreciate the "feel" and the cushion-y weight of the switches.
Now I am testing Gateron Yellows and they feel a little light haha.
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I come from using Topre 45g and Cherry MX Reds in the last 5 years.
Recently started using a vintage MX Blacks with 68g springs and at first they were a little fatiguing.
Two weeks later, I really appreciate the "feel" and the cushion-y weight of the switches.
Now I am testing Gateron Yellows and they feel a little light haha.
Yeah, after 7 hours of typeracer tonight, I'm starting to appreciate these heavier forces.
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I don't mind heavy clicky and tactile switches too much, but heavy linears just kills me. MX black is a bit too high for me, and reds are very light- I've found 50-55 grams to be the sweet spot :) .
MX blacks are also quite scratchy and not a very good switch at all. If you like linear switches, you might want to try some non-cherry alternatives ;) .
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I don't mind heavy clicky and tactile switches too much, but heavy linears just kills me. MX black is a bit too high for me, and reds are very light- I've found 50-55 grams to be the sweet spot :) .
MX blacks are also quite scratchy and not a very good switch at all. If you like linear switches, you might want to try some non-cherry alternatives ;) .
There are blacks and there are blacks.
I have 3 keyboard with blacks:
Link terminal keyboard - buttery smooth. By the date these should probably be vintage blacks, but the logos on the switches indicate otherwise.
QFR - smooth.
Ducky Shine 3 - scratchy.
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I first tried black (lubed variation) coming from 45g and 55g Topre. I have also tried MX clear before that and I think clears is pretty close to the Topre feeling.
The smoothness of blacks got me hooked though. I'm using my MX board more these days and it's permanently on my table at home. The HHKB is just for work and travel.
Just keep using it and you'll feel comfortable with it in no time.
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I first tried black (lubed variation) coming from 45g and 55g Topre. I have also tried MX clear before that and I think clears is pretty close to the Topre feeling.
The smoothness of blacks got me hooked though. I'm using my MX board more these days and it's permanently on my table at home. The HHKB is just for work and travel.
Just keep using it and you'll feel comfortable with it in no time.
Clears are also the closest MX to Topre, if such a thing can be said to exist.
Although the force curve is different - clears get harder and harder to press as they near bottoming out, whereas Topre gets easier.
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I first tried black (lubed variation) coming from 45g and 55g Topre. I have also tried MX clear before that and I think clears is pretty close to the Topre feeling.
The smoothness of blacks got me hooked though. I'm using my MX board more these days and it's permanently on my table at home. The HHKB is just for work and travel.
Just keep using it and you'll feel comfortable with it in no time.
I still have yet to try my 67g Zealios as the board is still being assembled but I've read reviews saying that switch is the closest thing to Topre feeling you can get on MX.
Funny how the vintage blacks really got me hooked. I tried the 62g clears on my 360c and somehow I don't like it as much.
Clears are also the closest MX to Topre, if such a thing can be said to exist.
Although the force curve is different - clears get harder and harder to press as they near bottoming out, whereas Topre gets easier.
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I have the purple Zealio 65g switches that I'm using right now. Honestly I adjusted to it really fast. Only took a day or two to get used to it. This was my first board that didn't have red or brown. I have always done red or brown since I was worried about fatigue. But now I use the 65g Zealio board at work for 8 hours a day and typing on it is great. However, gaming not so much. I tried to play a shooter with it yesterday, but trying to move around with WASD and keeping the keys pressed while running was kinda difficult. I ended up grabbing a red MX board instead.
Are you primarily using the black switch for gaming or typing?
65g Zealio should be very close to MX Brown/Red, fyi
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I don't mind heavy clicky and tactile switches too much, but heavy linears just kills me. MX black is a bit too high for me, and reds are very light- I've found 50-55 grams to be the sweet spot :) .
MX blacks are also quite scratchy and not a very good switch at all. If you like linear switches, you might want to try some non-cherry alternatives ;) .
There are blacks and there are blacks.
Yeah, I know there's supposedly a big difference. I only have modern MX blacks, which are the worst of the lot apparently. When I get a vintage black board someday I'll do a comparison video :) .
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I don't mind heavy clicky and tactile switches too much, but heavy linears just kills me. MX black is a bit too high for me, and reds are very light- I've found 50-55 grams to be the sweet spot :) .
MX blacks are also quite scratchy and not a very good switch at all. If you like linear switches, you might want to try some non-cherry alternatives ;) .
They're not that bad :)
The reason why I chose black was because of the way how it sounds. It sounds amazing.
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I don't mind heavy clicky and tactile switches too much, but heavy linears just kills me. MX black is a bit too high for me, and reds are very light- I've found 50-55 grams to be the sweet spot :) .
MX blacks are also quite scratchy and not a very good switch at all. If you like linear switches, you might want to try some non-cherry alternatives ;) .
They're not that bad :)
The reason why I chose black was because of the way how it sounds. It sounds amazing.
Here's some proper-sounding linear switches ;) .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37tdDoC7rGA&t=9m22s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37tdDoC7rGA&t=9m22s)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4goETUWoVZM&t=12m4s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4goETUWoVZM&t=12m4s)
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Just some guy talking, cmon.
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Entirely on a case by case basis. When I first got MX Blacks, I adjusted to them pretty much immediately. Nowadays, when I rotate them in right after using something lighter, it takes me anywhere from a couple of hours to a couple of days to re-adjust.
I think that if you want to get along well with MX Black switches, the most important thing is to trust and work with the keyboard. Don't give in to the urge to fight against the weight of the switch by using more force! Instead, apply a normal amount of force, and just trust that the key will still go down far enough to register, even though you're not getting any feedback. If you can retrain yourself like this, you'll probably experience a lot less fatigue.
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Entirely on a case by case basis. When I first got MX Blacks, I adjusted to them pretty much immediately. Nowadays, when I rotate them in right after using something lighter, it takes me anywhere from a couple of hours to a couple of days to re-adjust.
I think that if you want to get along well with MX Black switches, the most important thing is to trust and work with the keyboard. Don't give in to the urge to fight against the weight of the switch by using more force! Instead, apply a normal amount of force, and just trust that the key will still go down far enough to register, even though you're not getting any feedback. If you can retrain yourself like this, you'll probably experience a lot less fatigue.
I'm mindblown by your response. this is the only good response /practical response so far.
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Just some guy talking, cmon.
Skip to the end, there's a typing demo. The URL should've directed you to the right time frame Oo .
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Entirely on a case by case basis. When I first got MX Blacks, I adjusted to them pretty much immediately. Nowadays, when I rotate them in right after using something lighter, it takes me anywhere from a couple of hours to a couple of days to re-adjust.
I think that if you want to get along well with MX Black switches, the most important thing is to trust and work with the keyboard. Don't give in to the urge to fight against the weight of the switch by using more force! Instead, apply a normal amount of force, and just trust that the key will still go down far enough to register, even though you're not getting any feedback. If you can retrain yourself like this, you'll probably experience a lot less fatigue.
it actually feels really sturdy, I can press/slam the keys down hard without having to worry that it would break. Today, I'm beginning to adjust to these blacks.
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Strangely there were switches in the past that I didn't like but after trying many types of switches coming back to them they were much better than I remembered. It usually takes me a day to get accustom to new switches. Layouts are a whole nother thing though..
It would be nice to know more people locally into keyboards. I'd love to try different boards but I'd have to buy them. I've been wanting to try Greens, Clears, and Matias switches but there's no way I can afford to buy them. Browns at least work for me in general. Way better than the rubber-domes I've used for years.
I really do like the blacks in this numpad though, just worried about having an ENTIRE board with them. I have a Dell AT101 in the mail with Black Alps, so at least that's something different to try.
(Attachment Link)
Isn't it weird to have blacks on numberpad and something else on the other ?
Honestly, the more I test this numpad out, it doesn't seem all that different in force required than the browns. Perhaps due to the tactile bump in the browns? Also, I'm led to believe the blacks in my numpad are an earlier and smoother variety. I think I feel a main difference when just holding down a button. Like, it might be more fatiguing in that regard moreso than just regular typing. I would need to test further, but I don't think the regular typing different would be too stark; maybe gaming and graphic design program useage would be more tiring?
It's pretty nice to also hold it in both hands and type with my thumbs. It seems like there is synergy with it and my keyboard(s) with browns.
Anyway, all this aside. I'm used to the numpad within 30 minutes. I would wonder, even if you get more accustomed to blacks in a full keyboard, could it not simply cause more stress over the years? At what point is using a stiffer switch, and causing more work for yourself, going to catch up to you? The older I get, the more aches and pains I feel so the less unneeded stress I want to put on my body. RSI can be pretty serious and years of computer usage related stress adds up.
[attach=1]
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Strangely there were switches in the past that I didn't like but after trying many types of switches coming back to them they were much better than I remembered. It usually takes me a day to get accustom to new switches. Layouts are a whole nother thing though..
It would be nice to know more people locally into keyboards. I'd love to try different boards but I'd have to buy them. I've been wanting to try Greens, Clears, and Matias switches but there's no way I can afford to buy them. Browns at least work for me in general. Way better than the rubber-domes I've used for years.
I really do like the blacks in this numpad though, just worried about having an ENTIRE board with them. I have a Dell AT101 in the mail with Black Alps, so at least that's something different to try.
(Attachment Link)
Isn't it weird to have blacks on numberpad and something else on the other ?
Honestly, the more I test this numpad out, it doesn't seem all that different in force required than the browns. Perhaps due to the tactile bump in the browns? Also, I'm led to believe the blacks in my numpad are an earlier and smoother variety. I think I feel a main difference when just holding down a button. Like, it might be more fatiguing in that regard moreso than just regular typing. I would need to test further, but I don't think the regular typing different would be too stark; maybe gaming and graphic design program useage would be more tiring?
It's pretty nice to also hold it in both hands and type with my thumbs. It seems like there is synergy with it and my keyboard(s) with browns.
Anyway, all this aside. I'm used to the numpad within 30 minutes. I would wonder, even if you get more accustomed to blacks in a full keyboard, could it not simply cause more stress over the years? At what point is using a stiffer switch, and causing more work for yourself, going to catch up to you? The older I get, the more aches and pains I feel so the less unneeded stress I want to put on my body. RSI can be pretty serious and years of computer usage related stress adds up.
(Attachment Link)
Now I'm wondering whether I'm setting myself up for RSI in the future for using blacks?
-
Strangely there were switches in the past that I didn't like but after trying many types of switches coming back to them they were much better than I remembered. It usually takes me a day to get accustom to new switches. Layouts are a whole nother thing though..
It would be nice to know more people locally into keyboards. I'd love to try different boards but I'd have to buy them. I've been wanting to try Greens, Clears, and Matias switches but there's no way I can afford to buy them. Browns at least work for me in general. Way better than the rubber-domes I've used for years.
I really do like the blacks in this numpad though, just worried about having an ENTIRE board with them. I have a Dell AT101 in the mail with Black Alps, so at least that's something different to try.
(Attachment Link)
Isn't it weird to have blacks on numberpad and something else on the other ?
Honestly, the more I test this numpad out, it doesn't seem all that different in force required than the browns. Perhaps due to the tactile bump in the browns? Also, I'm led to believe the blacks in my numpad are an earlier and smoother variety. I think I feel a main difference when just holding down a button. Like, it might be more fatiguing in that regard moreso than just regular typing. I would need to test further, but I don't think the regular typing different would be too stark; maybe gaming and graphic design program useage would be more tiring?
It's pretty nice to also hold it in both hands and type with my thumbs. It seems like there is synergy with it and my keyboard(s) with browns.
Anyway, all this aside. I'm used to the numpad within 30 minutes. I would wonder, even if you get more accustomed to blacks in a full keyboard, could it not simply cause more stress over the years? At what point is using a stiffer switch, and causing more work for yourself, going to catch up to you? The older I get, the more aches and pains I feel so the less unneeded stress I want to put on my body. RSI can be pretty serious and years of computer usage related stress adds up.
(Attachment Link)
Now I'm wondering whether I'm setting myself up for RSI in the future for using blacks?
As long as your typing environment is reasonably ergonomic, and if you don't have any pre-existing medical problem, you should be fine.
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I would wonder, even if you get more accustomed to blacks in a full keyboard, could it not simply cause more stress over the years? At what point is using a stiffer switch, and causing more work for yourself, going to catch up to you? The older I get, the more aches and pains I feel so the less unneeded stress I want to put on my body. RSI can be pretty serious and years of computer usage related stress adds up.
One thought, which I'd love to believe, is that it keeps your finger and wrist muscles active and strong.
I know a number of the, *ahem*, more experienced members, around here and over on DT certainly prefer heavier buckling spring switches. Though they also weren't raised on plastic and fiberglass :p
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So I got my Filco majestouch 2 mx cherry black yesterday and trying to get used to the stiffness of the switch. It does cause fatigue in my hands like people have been saying. For those of you who have owned mx cherry black switch and have used only mx cherry blacks, how long did it take you to adjust to it? Adjust to it as in no more fatigue.
It took 3 days of constant use to get use to it. It actually became my favorite switch for a while
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Strangely there were switches in the past that I didn't like but after trying many types of switches coming back to them they were much better than I remembered. It usually takes me a day to get accustom to new switches. Layouts are a whole nother thing though..
It would be nice to know more people locally into keyboards. I'd love to try different boards but I'd have to buy them. I've been wanting to try Greens, Clears, and Matias switches but there's no way I can afford to buy them. Browns at least work for me in general. Way better than the rubber-domes I've used for years.
I really do like the blacks in this numpad though, just worried about having an ENTIRE board with them. I have a Dell AT101 in the mail with Black Alps, so at least that's something different to try.
(Attachment Link)
Isn't it weird to have blacks on numberpad and something else on the other ?
Honestly, the more I test this numpad out, it doesn't seem all that different in force required than the browns. Perhaps due to the tactile bump in the browns? Also, I'm led to believe the blacks in my numpad are an earlier and smoother variety. I think I feel a main difference when just holding down a button. Like, it might be more fatiguing in that regard moreso than just regular typing. I would need to test further, but I don't think the regular typing different would be too stark; maybe gaming and graphic design program useage would be more tiring?
It's pretty nice to also hold it in both hands and type with my thumbs. It seems like there is synergy with it and my keyboard(s) with browns.
Anyway, all this aside. I'm used to the numpad within 30 minutes. I would wonder, even if you get more accustomed to blacks in a full keyboard, could it not simply cause more stress over the years? At what point is using a stiffer switch, and causing more work for yourself, going to catch up to you? The older I get, the more aches and pains I feel so the less unneeded stress I want to put on my body. RSI can be pretty serious and years of computer usage related stress adds up.
(Attachment Link)
Now I'm wondering whether I'm setting myself up for RSI in the future for using blacks?
As long as your typing environment is reasonably ergonomic, and if you don't have any pre-existing medical problem, you should be fine.
The typing environment... this is a big issue that I've struggled with and one reason I'm hesitant to try using heavier switches unless there is a reason I would need to.
It leads me to this: Keyboards with numpads are not ergonomic when used with a mouse. You either have to constantly adjust your seat or position your arms in awkward positions.
I've worked so many years at a computer, and it's almost making me mad that keyboard manufacturers and workplaces seem oblivious to this. I just put some Leopold caps on my Ducky Shine 4 and it types WONDERFULLY. But the numpad and me having to compensate for it is about to drive me crazy. I really don't want to end up with chronic issues that need surgery, because I can't afford that.
Basically, I mention being hesitant of using stiffer switches just because if you are already dealing with having to work on a computer all day, it could be beneficial to not force more strain on yourself than you are already going to have. Rubber-domes, for instance, mainly benefit the manufacturers and workplaces because they are cheap, not because they are the best for ergonomics.
I think a better way to work out your fingers for pure strength is to do actual exercises like pull ups, pushups, climbing, hand grippers, etc. Repetitive dull tasks cause more strain than fitness.
I just want to mention this because I've been doing this for years and it's catching up to me. I'd like to save people some grief later. You can get by with this more in you're younger or just using a computer a little bit and it may not seem like a big deal. I just notice it's like people don't want to be considered weak, or it sounds "cool" to use really stiff switches or type really hard. Like it's more manly to type hard on stiff switches. I don't care about being "tough", I want to be "comfortable".
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Strangely there were switches in the past that I didn't like but after trying many types of switches coming back to them they were much better than I remembered. It usually takes me a day to get accustom to new switches. Layouts are a whole nother thing though..
It would be nice to know more people locally into keyboards. I'd love to try different boards but I'd have to buy them. I've been wanting to try Greens, Clears, and Matias switches but there's no way I can afford to buy them. Browns at least work for me in general. Way better than the rubber-domes I've used for years.
I really do like the blacks in this numpad though, just worried about having an ENTIRE board with them. I have a Dell AT101 in the mail with Black Alps, so at least that's something different to try.
(Attachment Link)
Isn't it weird to have blacks on numberpad and something else on the other ?
Honestly, the more I test this numpad out, it doesn't seem all that different in force required than the browns. Perhaps due to the tactile bump in the browns? Also, I'm led to believe the blacks in my numpad are an earlier and smoother variety. I think I feel a main difference when just holding down a button. Like, it might be more fatiguing in that regard moreso than just regular typing. I would need to test further, but I don't think the regular typing different would be too stark; maybe gaming and graphic design program useage would be more tiring?
It's pretty nice to also hold it in both hands and type with my thumbs. It seems like there is synergy with it and my keyboard(s) with browns.
Anyway, all this aside. I'm used to the numpad within 30 minutes. I would wonder, even if you get more accustomed to blacks in a full keyboard, could it not simply cause more stress over the years? At what point is using a stiffer switch, and causing more work for yourself, going to catch up to you? The older I get, the more aches and pains I feel so the less unneeded stress I want to put on my body. RSI can be pretty serious and years of computer usage related stress adds up.
(Attachment Link)
Now I'm wondering whether I'm setting myself up for RSI in the future for using blacks?
As long as your typing environment is reasonably ergonomic, and if you don't have any pre-existing medical problem, you should be fine.
The typing environment... this is a big issue that I've struggled with and one reason I'm hesitant to try using heavier switches unless there is a reason I would need to.
It leads me to this: Keyboards with numpads are not ergonomic when used with a mouse. You either have to constantly adjust your seat or position your arms in awkward positions.
I've worked so many years at a computer, and it's almost making me mad that keyboard manufacturers and workplaces seem oblivious to this. I just put some Leopold caps on my Ducky Shine 4 and it types WONDERFULLY. But the numpad and me having to compensate for it is about to drive me crazy. I really don't want to end up with chronic issues that need surgery, because I can't afford that.
Basically, I mention being hesitant of using stiffer switches just because if you are already dealing with having to work on a computer all day, it could be beneficial to not force more strain on yourself than you are already going to have. Rubber-domes, for instance, mainly benefit the manufacturers and workplaces because they are cheap, not because they are the best for ergonomics.
I think a better way to work out your fingers for pure strength is to do actual exercises like pull ups, pushups, climbing, hand grippers, etc. Repetitive dull tasks cause more strain than fitness.
I just want to mention this because I've been doing this for years and it's catching up to me. I'd like to save people some grief later. You can get by with this more in you're younger or just using a computer a little bit and it may not seem like a big deal. I just notice it's like people don't want to be considered weak, or it sounds "cool" to use really stiff switches or type really hard. Like it's more manly to type hard on stiff switches. I don't care about being "tough", I want to be "comfortable".
I have fairly strong fingers and bottom out on almost everything I type on. MX clears I only bottom out most of the time.
I also had pain in my right shoulder, and after seeking medical advice turns out I was using the mouse inappropriately.
Since switching to mostly TKL or 60% keyboards I have had pretty much no further discomfort.
I also try to sit up a bit straighter when typing, maybe that has helped a bit too.
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Strangely there were switches in the past that I didn't like but after trying many types of switches coming back to them they were much better than I remembered. It usually takes me a day to get accustom to new switches. Layouts are a whole nother thing though..
It would be nice to know more people locally into keyboards. I'd love to try different boards but I'd have to buy them. I've been wanting to try Greens, Clears, and Matias switches but there's no way I can afford to buy them. Browns at least work for me in general. Way better than the rubber-domes I've used for years.
I really do like the blacks in this numpad though, just worried about having an ENTIRE board with them. I have a Dell AT101 in the mail with Black Alps, so at least that's something different to try.
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Isn't it weird to have blacks on numberpad and something else on the other ?
Honestly, the more I test this numpad out, it doesn't seem all that different in force required than the browns. Perhaps due to the tactile bump in the browns? Also, I'm led to believe the blacks in my numpad are an earlier and smoother variety. I think I feel a main difference when just holding down a button. Like, it might be more fatiguing in that regard moreso than just regular typing. I would need to test further, but I don't think the regular typing different would be too stark; maybe gaming and graphic design program useage would be more tiring?
It's pretty nice to also hold it in both hands and type with my thumbs. It seems like there is synergy with it and my keyboard(s) with browns.
Anyway, all this aside. I'm used to the numpad within 30 minutes. I would wonder, even if you get more accustomed to blacks in a full keyboard, could it not simply cause more stress over the years? At what point is using a stiffer switch, and causing more work for yourself, going to catch up to you? The older I get, the more aches and pains I feel so the less unneeded stress I want to put on my body. RSI can be pretty serious and years of computer usage related stress adds up.
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Now I'm wondering whether I'm setting myself up for RSI in the future for using blacks?
As long as your typing environment is reasonably ergonomic, and if you don't have any pre-existing medical problem, you should be fine.
The typing environment... this is a big issue that I've struggled with and one reason I'm hesitant to try using heavier switches unless there is a reason I would need to.
It leads me to this: Keyboards with numpads are not ergonomic when used with a mouse. You either have to constantly adjust your seat or position your arms in awkward positions.
I've worked so many years at a computer, and it's almost making me mad that keyboard manufacturers and workplaces seem oblivious to this. I just put some Leopold caps on my Ducky Shine 4 and it types WONDERFULLY. But the numpad and me having to compensate for it is about to drive me crazy. I really don't want to end up with chronic issues that need surgery, because I can't afford that.
Basically, I mention being hesitant of using stiffer switches just because if you are already dealing with having to work on a computer all day, it could be beneficial to not force more strain on yourself than you are already going to have. Rubber-domes, for instance, mainly benefit the manufacturers and workplaces because they are cheap, not because they are the best for ergonomics.
I think a better way to work out your fingers for pure strength is to do actual exercises like pull ups, pushups, climbing, hand grippers, etc. Repetitive dull tasks cause more strain than fitness.
I just want to mention this because I've been doing this for years and it's catching up to me. I'd like to save people some grief later. You can get by with this more in you're younger or just using a computer a little bit and it may not seem like a big deal. I just notice it's like people don't want to be considered weak, or it sounds "cool" to use really stiff switches or type really hard. Like it's more manly to type hard on stiff switches. I don't care about being "tough", I want to be "comfortable".
I have fairly strong fingers and bottom out on almost everything I type on. MX clears I only bottom out most of the time.
I also had pain in my right shoulder, and after seeking medical advice turns out I was using the mouse inappropriately.
Since switching to mostly TKL or 60% keyboards I have had pretty much no further discomfort.
I also try to sit up a bit straighter when typing, maybe that has helped a bit too.
Yeah... I just had to unplug my Shine 4. With TKL it's immediately more comfortable. The Leopold PBT feels great and it looks really cool on the Shine 4, but it's just too much now to deal with the numpad. I want to saw it off or something ;)
They have supposed "ergonomic" trays for keyboard and mouse where I work, but they still have them sized for fullsize keyboards and you are still forced to put the mouse way over on the side of it.
In regard to the Cherry Blacks... I was using the numpad more, and I think it may feel a bit too stiff to me still, but I am just slender. I'm reasonably agile, but I'm just light. So I was using the numpad with my right arm as it was sitting to the right of my mouse, and I could feel it irritating my shoulder more. I think I would need Reds if I was going to use it continuously in that position. What I am going to try is putting the numpad directly to the left of the keyboard when I need to use it. It's not so much difficult to press in that position to the right of my mouse, it's just irritating. It's more ligament strain than just muscle strain I guess. If I am going to have stiff switches, then they at least need to be centered more in front of me, like the keyboard, not way off where I have to reach over to press them. If that is the case, then they would need to be really featherweight.
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have u tried gateron black stock lubed? it is lighter than mx black. I fell in love with this switch xD
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I'm excited for my Ducky ONE TKL to come this week with Cherry MX Reds :)
I've used blacks on my first mechanical keyboard... and they weren't bad but I am a gamer so Reds are definitely the best choice for me as I am always double tapping spacebar or holding down W-A-S-D keys. But I'm glad I got a TKL pad so my mouse doesn't hit the annoying numpad on my keyboard anymore, plus I literally NEVER use my numpad, I don't work in an office environment settings I just use my PC to play games, hehe :)
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I'm excited for my Ducky ONE TKL to come this week with Cherry MX Reds :)
I've used blacks on my first mechanical keyboard... and they weren't bad but I am a gamer so Reds are definitely the best choice for me as I am always double tapping spacebar or holding down W-A-S-D keys. But I'm glad I got a TKL pad so my mouse doesn't hit the annoying numpad on my keyboard anymore, plus I literally NEVER use my numpad, I don't work in an office environment settings I just use my PC to play games, hehe :)
I think I'll get mx cherry reds a few months from now of the same keyboard. I think it'll take me a bit longer to become accustomed to blacks. It still feels really heavy when I'm just typing short sentences. But typing longer sentences feels great and i don't know why that is. I find the spacebar of filco to be extremely smooth when pressed.
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I have the purple Zealio 65g switches that I'm using right now. Honestly I adjusted to it really fast. Only took a day or two to get used to it. This was my first board that didn't have red or brown. I have always done red or brown since I was worried about fatigue. But now I use the 65g Zealio board at work for 8 hours a day and typing on it is great. However, gaming not so much. I tried to play a shooter with it yesterday, but trying to move around with WASD and keeping the keys pressed while running was kinda difficult. I ended up grabbing a red MX board instead.
Are you primarily using the black switch for gaming or typing?
My mx cherry red comes tomorrow. Same board. Thanks for convincing me
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I'm trying the Alps Blacks linear mod and it feels way better and more elegant to me than the Cherry Black. It has higher initial actuation (just a bit more than Cherry Brown) but without the heavy resistance towards the bottom, which is something that concerns me as far as holding down keys for graphic design and such programs. I'm sticking with Cherry Browns or using these custom Alps (or something else I discover later).
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I'm trying the Alps Blacks linear mod and it feels way better and more elegant to me than the Cherry Black. It has higher initial actuation (just a bit more than Cherry Brown) but without the heavy resistance towards the bottom, which is something that concerns me as far as holding down keys for graphic design and such programs. I'm sticking with Cherry Browns or using these custom Alps (or something else I discover later).
huh I have some alps blacks and I find them terrible. where can I find the mod instructions? :p