I've also read this blog about linux's shortcomings on the desktop.
It's becoming slow for what I want to do. [...] I do webdev, systems programming, statistical data analysis, and writing academic papers.Which part is slow? I’m guessing it’s the statistical analysis which is slow? None of those other things on your list should take excessive CPU power. What programming language/environment/libraries are you using for your statistical analysis, and what type of analysis, specifically? Are you running code multithreaded? On the GPU? Are you I/O bound? Memory bound? How optimized are your programs? ...
So my question is, what is best for coding?In my opinion, the best on the market for “coding” generically, if you’re sitting at a desk, is a 27" iMac, even if you want to run Linux on it. As far as I can tell the hardware is better priced than a similarly specced machine + display from any other vendor [cheapest configured 27" iMac is $1800, a similar display from Dell is $1600 by itself (current Amazon price), before adding a computer]. Lots of display space to fit a decent number of editor windows and browser windows (you said webdev, so I assume you need to test everything in multiple browsers). For me, the nice display is worth a lot more w/r/t programmer productivity than some extra CPU cores. CPU and GPU performance on typical tasks is great, a big step up from your 2010 laptop.
I've also read this blog about linux's shortcomings on the desktop.
This sentence, along with you not stating any specific problems tells me enough. Just buy a new Mac and spare us BS.
Homebrew, as much as it has been a godsend in certain aspects, is basically one big hack for an OS without a true package manager.
It most certainly does not keep me sane when I want a specific version of a package. Their versioning is wonky at best.Homebrew, as much as it has been a godsend in certain aspects, is basically one big hack for an OS without a true package manager.
It's what keeps me sane on the Macs at work. Otherwise, I'd use Debian or Slackware exclusively.
It most certainly does not keep me sane when I want a specific version of a package. Their versioning is wonky at best.Homebrew, as much as it has been a godsend in certain aspects, is basically one big hack for an OS without a true package manager.
It's what keeps me sane on the Macs at work. Otherwise, I'd use Debian or Slackware exclusively.
And I really hate the keyboard layout... If you have worked on linux or windows machines before you can flush all the hotkeys you know down the toilet because Apple tend to do it the 'Apple Way'. I afraight I will lose my sanity soon.Macs have had roughly consistent (slowly evolving) keyboard shortcuts since 1985. In general, they are more coherent and stable over time than shortcuts on Windows or Linux.
I am used to type on a HHKB with US-International layout, it works perfectly on win/linux but scumbag Apple has a totally different implementation which is totally useless for me.Blame the HHKB for not being compatible with the Mac. If your keyboard had programmable firmware you could probably fix the problem.
I am forced to code with a MacBook Pro at work and I hate it to the guts.The better lesson here is that employers shouldn’t try to force their employees to use particular tools. Especially without providing any retraining for employees who are crotchety and set in their ways.
Fiddling with overwriting or symlinking around El Capitan's default utilities is prone to headaches just as much as any dependency conflict in Ubuntu.Can you elaborate about what you want to overwrite or symlink around?
At work we've been developing Windows software for several decades. Recently we have started shifting towards Web-based applications with a back end written in Java that can run on any platform.
Historically we've all had Windows desktops, since about 3.1. We're usually a couple of versions behind, simply because there is usually no need to upgrade something that works.
Now I need a new workstation, and was given the option of a Mac.
I carefully compared prices, and a Dell with Windows 10 is more expensive than an iMac. The iMac came in at about $4500, the Dell was closer to $5000. Plus Apple hardware holds its resale value somewhat better.
Windows - I see it as a single user gaming operating system. Really. I struggle with it on a daily basis. Memory management sucks. UI is extremely inconsistent and inconvenient. I've settled on the classic (Win2K) theme as Aero (Win 7) is broken in many ways for me. On the plus side many, many companies have bought in to the Microsoft ecosystem so there is a plethora of development tools available. Needs regular rebooting (at least every week) to maintain a semblance of stability.
Linux - I've been using it since the days when it was distributed on floppies and you had to carefully configure a GUI by hand. I've had applications crash randomly all the time, including MATE System Monitor on Debian 8 (to give a recent example). Being very much a server tool, there is a plethora of development tools available. There is also a plethora of desktop environments available, and most have far too many customisation options - I can spend hours configuring a desktop the way I like.
OS X - A nice and consistent GUI on top of a Unix-like operating system. Not much GUI configuration options, it just gets out of the way and lets you work. It was Unix (based on one of the BSDs) and Apple customised it and moved lots of things around. My Mac at home has crashed maybe 2 or 3 times in 6 years. The only reason I reboot is to install operating system updates. Main development tools are Apple's, and less familiar. There are other options available, and using a third party package management system you can install many of the Linux development tools.
My personal preference is the Mac. I've been fighting Windows for years, and I'm sick and tired of it. Linux still seems a bit experimental and unstable to me, especially on the desktop, although things have improved considerably, but there are still far too many options to choose from. OS X just works, looks nice, and basically gets out of the way and lets you do your work.
It will be interesting to see how a Mac at work goes - we still do a lot of Windows development. I'll have to run that in a VM, but run everything else natively.
I just recently started using my 4th MacBook Pro for work and it has completely frozen up on me several times. The only way to regain control was to power it down.Did you look in the logs? What caused the freeze?
At work we've been developing Windows software for several decades. Recently we have started shifting towards Web-based applications with a back end written in Java that can run on any platform.
Historically we've all had Windows desktops, since about 3.1. We're usually a couple of versions behind, simply because there is usually no need to upgrade something that works.
Now I need a new workstation, and was given the option of a Mac.
I carefully compared prices, and a Dell with Windows 10 is more expensive than an iMac. The iMac came in at about $4500, the Dell was closer to $5000. Plus Apple hardware holds its resale value somewhat better.
Windows - I see it as a single user gaming operating system. Really. I struggle with it on a daily basis. Memory management sucks. UI is extremely inconsistent and inconvenient. I've settled on the classic (Win2K) theme as Aero (Win 7) is broken in many ways for me. On the plus side many, many companies have bought in to the Microsoft ecosystem so there is a plethora of development tools available. Needs regular rebooting (at least every week) to maintain a semblance of stability.
Linux - I've been using it since the days when it was distributed on floppies and you had to carefully configure a GUI by hand. I've had applications crash randomly all the time, including MATE System Monitor on Debian 8 (to give a recent example). Being very much a server tool, there is a plethora of development tools available. There is also a plethora of desktop environments available, and most have far too many customisation options - I can spend hours configuring a desktop the way I like.
OS X - A nice and consistent GUI on top of a Unix-like operating system. Not much GUI configuration options, it just gets out of the way and lets you work. It was Unix (based on one of the BSDs) and Apple customised it and moved lots of things around. My Mac at home has crashed maybe 2 or 3 times in 6 years. The only reason I reboot is to install operating system updates. Main development tools are Apple's, and less familiar. There are other options available, and using a third party package management system you can install many of the Linux development tools.
My personal preference is the Mac. I've been fighting Windows for years, and I'm sick and tired of it. Linux still seems a bit experimental and unstable to me, especially on the desktop, although things have improved considerably, but there are still far too many options to choose from. OS X just works, looks nice, and basically gets out of the way and lets you do your work.
It will be interesting to see how a Mac at work goes - we still do a lot of Windows development. I'll have to run that in a VM, but run everything else natively.
I'm gonna have to call you out, rowdy. :p Some of these observations sound like they came from 10 years ago, not recently.
When was the last time (and what distro) you tried Linux on a desktop or laptop? For the last 5 years, I could confidently slap Debian (default Gnome Desktop) on a "box" and use it as a "workstation" (I use laptops as workstations) without any problems with drivers or other basic software that I can think of.
I just recently started using my 4th MacBook Pro for work and it has completely frozen up on me several times. The only way to regain control was to power it down.
I haven't used Windows as main OS for about 8 years, but I don't have as much trouble with it as others seem to...
Did you use VMware with VMware-tools in the guest OS, or did you use VirtualBox? On actual hardware you should have no trouble.
VMware Workstation and Fusion are far better than VirtualBox. I know a lot of people who swear by VB, but I have problems with it every time I use it. Most recently, I tried VB about a month ago. The guest utilities (equivalent to vmware-tools), in particular, still suck. Better than they used to be (non-existant), but they don't work as well as vmware-tools.
You missed my point(I was pointing out that you clearly just don't want it for whatever reason), but I've decided to read that article anyway. Estimating roughly:I've also read this blog about linux's shortcomings on the desktop.
This sentence, along with you not stating any specific problems tells me enough. Just buy a new Mac and spare us BS.
Here it is, read it for yourself:
http://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html (http://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html)
Which part is slow? I’m guessing it’s the statistical analysis which is slow? None of those other things on your list should take excessive CPU power. What programming language/environment/libraries are you using for your statistical analysis, and what type of analysis, specifically? Are you running code multithreaded? On the GPU? Are you I/O bound? Memory bound? How optimized are your programs? ...
Getting a machine with more RAM could help a lot. My 13" “retina” Mac laptop has 16 GB of memory, and the last time I had <8GB was 7 years ago. I would find it very constricting to use a machine with 4 GB today. You could probably get a big boost with your current machine just by buying 8 GB of third-party memory.
QuoteSo my question is, what is best for coding?In my opinion, the best on the market for “coding” generically, if you’re sitting at a desk, is a 27" iMac, even if you want to run Linux on it. As far as I can tell the hardware is better priced than a similarly specced machine + display from any other vendor [cheapest configured 27" iMac is $1800, a similar display from Dell is $1600 by itself (current Amazon price), before adding a computer]. Lots of display space to fit a decent number of editor windows and browser windows (you said webdev, so I assume you need to test everything in multiple browsers). For me, the nice display is worth a lot more w/r/t programmer productivity than some extra CPU cores. CPU and GPU performance on typical tasks is great, a big step up from your 2010 laptop.
[The Mac Pro is a very specific niche machine (which is additionally a few years out of date because Intel’s schedule has slipped in the past few years and we’re just finally getting the CPUs, displays, new USB/Thunderbolt ports, etc. which would call for it to be refreshed), not a general-purpose consumer workstation. It’s great for people with specific GPU or heavily parallelized CPU workloads, or folks who need to have maximum I/O. A smaller and smaller set of use cases aren’t handled by consumer hardware, and it sounds like yours aren’t among those. It’s not surprising that the Mac Pro doesn’t meet your needs.]
If you ever need to run a bigger workload than your machine can manage locally, rent some time on a remote Linux server somewhere.
But you haven’t really given a full accounting of your criteria. Do you need to work out of a coffeeshop or on the couch sometimes? etc.
What text editor do you use? What’s your toolset for writing papers (LaTeX? MS Word? InDesign? Do you ever need to make diagrams?)? Are you a grad student? Assistant professor? Professional software engineer? What’s your computer budget? ...
Just out of curiosity, what sort of systems programming?
For statistical analysis RAM is more important than CPU, that most contemporary ones run well, I have ran over 20 million records databases with 8 gigs only, with core 2 duo old machine, as some wrote, already, what part is slowing down your pc?
From my experience, a robust modern Linux distro will cause you equally as much pain as developing on OSX; that is, not a whole lot most of the time. They both have their issues that can crop up when a deadline is looming. These are computers we're dealing with, after all :))
Fiddling with overwriting or symlinking around El Capitan's default utilities is prone to headaches just as much as any dependency conflict in Ubuntu. At least with Ubuntu the OS isn't designed to prevent you from changing things. Homebrew, as much as it has been a godsend in certain aspects, is basically one big hack for an OS without a true package manager.
I would have 0 hesitation about switching to Ubuntu or openSUSE, aside from my heavily-ingrained OSX-specific muscle memory.
is this a gen 1 i7 or gen 2 sandybridge.
if it's gen 1, yea u need to upgrade, if it's gen 2, you don't need to upgrade, you probably just need 16gigs of ram..
if you're SURE u need the cpu power, go with the 4790k if you can overclock, if you're not gonna overclock, then go with a 6700k..
Homebrew, as much as it has been a godsend in certain aspects, is basically one big hack for an OS without a true package manager.
It's what keeps me sane on the Macs at work. Otherwise, I'd use Debian or Slackware exclusively.
It most certainly does not keep me sane when I want a specific version of a package. Their versioning is wonky at best.Homebrew, as much as it has been a godsend in certain aspects, is basically one big hack for an OS without a true package manager.
It's what keeps me sane on the Macs at work. Otherwise, I'd use Debian or Slackware exclusively.
I am forced to code with a MacBook Pro at work and I hate it to the guts.
We do a lot with virtualization and recently we tried out docker for a new project.
It has to run in a Vagrant machine because a Linux Kernell is necessary for docker and it will take some time to run natively on OSX
The default terminal is a big joke, I am forced to use iterm2 plus heavy configuration to make it viable for me.
And I really hate the keyboard layout... If you have worked on linux or windows machines before you can flush all the hotkeys you know down the toilet because Apple tend to do it the 'Apple Way'. I afraight I will lose my sanity soon.
I am used to type on a HHKB with US-International layout, it works perfectly on win/linux but scumbag Apple has a totally different implementation which is totally useless for me.
If you have the chance, stay away from Apple products as far as possible.
My personal preference is the Mac. I've been fighting Windows for years, and I'm sick and tired of it. Linux still seems a bit experimental and unstable to me, especially on the desktop, although things have improved considerably, but there are still far too many options to choose from. OS X just works, looks nice, and basically gets out of the way and lets you do your work.
It will be interesting to see how a Mac at work goes - we still do a lot of Windows development. I'll have to run that in a VM, but run everything else natively.
We do a lot with virtualization and recently we tried out docker for a new project.
It has to run in a Vagrant machine because a Linux Kernell is necessary for docker and it will take some time to run natively on OSX
Did you use VMware with VMware-tools in the guest OS, or did you use VirtualBox? On actual hardware you should have no trouble.
VMware Workstation and Fusion are far better than VirtualBox. I know a lot of people who swear by VB, but I have problems with it every time I use it. Most recently, I tried VB about a month ago. The guest utilities (equivalent to vmware-tools), in particular, still suck. Better than they used to be (non-existant), but they don't work as well as vmware-tools.
Did you use VMware with VMware-tools in the guest OS, or did you use VirtualBox? On actual hardware you should have no trouble.
VMware Workstation and Fusion are far better than VirtualBox. I know a lot of people who swear by VB, but I have problems with it every time I use it. Most recently, I tried VB about a month ago. The guest utilities (equivalent to vmware-tools), in particular, still suck. Better than they used to be (non-existant), but they don't work as well as vmware-tools.
I still swear by VMWare. It Just Works. For me at least.
Did you use VMware with VMware-tools in the guest OS, or did you use VirtualBox? On actual hardware you should have no trouble.
VMware Workstation and Fusion are far better than VirtualBox. I know a lot of people who swear by VB, but I have problems with it every time I use it. Most recently, I tried VB about a month ago. The guest utilities (equivalent to vmware-tools), in particular, still suck. Better than they used to be (non-existant), but they don't work as well as vmware-tools.
I still swear by VMWare. It Just Works. For me at least.
I swear by VirtualBox - does everything I need it to, from Windows 2000 up to 10 guests, various Linux distros, NetBSD, and I even installed XenServer into a VirtualBox VM - it worked!
Docker is still in beta which is quite a risk for a development environment where several devs depend on.
With the default console is a lot wrong.
No colors, useless prompt, dont close on exit, no proper package manager (brew is garbage), biggest issue for me is the seperation between CMD and Ctrl, which is by far the most retardee thing I've seen in a while.
Mac will forever remain garbe for me...
you are definitely right, I agree with you. Some of the points I've mentioned are not directly caused by the terminal but they are related to it. And yes, it is ridiculous that you don't access the function keys in the first place but rather have to do it over the function layer. I as developer use the actual function keys more often as Vol+ / Vol-
I have no clue how can people seriously develop on a mac, Apple basically sh!ts on everything.
Their Java implementation is the most troublesome I've ever dealt with as developer, even MS has done this better.
It is a unix system but with a custom kernell, therefore you can't just run native linux programs on it.
They sh!t all over standards, connectors, protocols and whatever...
You can't use the AppStore without an AppleID and you can't create one without setting a payment method.... I had to compile Xcode out of binarys I've found somewhere on the web because Apple wouldn't let me install it from their AppStore. And this is developer friendly?
And I am currently typing on a MacBook Pro my company gave me, which I'd love to just throw against a wall...
are right, the new Trackpad is the only thing I actually like about it. But there is no right click....
But what do you need a Laptop for? Can't you just do your work on a regular Desktop machine?
I do find the workflow in OS X struggles for me because the window management never wants to do what I want it to do.
Installing BetterSnapTool helps a lot. Basically I want my windows to occupy the monitor fully, but OS X loves to have small windows floating around. When you want to make it bigger, it goes totally fullscreen in its own desktop which is cumbersome to switch between.
That and for the life of me I don't get why folders aren't at the top in Finder.
Having said all that, I don't like the path Windows is going down one bit right now with its forced updates and such. I question how long until OS X is the same, though, since iOS is already like that.
Linux offers good flexibility and freedom that the others don't seem to offer right now. The nice thing is you can run it over top of the other two (or even run Windows over Linux).
When I'm REALLY working, I usually have open: terminal + tmux + vim + python shell + Rstudio + spss + word + excel + keynote + texshop + illustrator / affinity designer + spotify + safari and some other apps on the side. And yes, my memory is almost always full I guess, judging from Activity Monitor. Oh, important: I also do virtualization to test what I develop on different distros and different environments.
Although I do admire the iMac, I think it is still really pricey for what is basically a laptop with a great display slapped on top of it.This is not a fair summary. The power / thermal capacity of an iMac is much greater than any laptop, and as a result the internals are much beefier.
What I find most annoying about the Terminal app, is that the F-keys (F1, F2, etc., not "function" keys like volume) are very difficult to use within the Terminal.You can configure a Mac so that the F keys are the default, and fn + key handles the volume/etc. functions.
I see it that way, Mac OS is for stupid users who wan't eyecandy.Uh huh... or, y’know, for people who have different preferences than you do. Maybe ones who don’t stoop to insulting broad groups of strangers who they don’t know anything about.
Linux is for people who need productivity and actually develop software.
Yes you are right, the new Trackpad is the only thing I actually like about it. But there is no right click....On a Mac, you have a choice of Ctrl+click, two finger tap, or two finger hold + thumb click. All three are in my experience easier to use than trackpads with discrete left/right hardware buttons.
I see it that way, Mac OS is for stupid users who wan't eyecandy.Uh huh... or, y’know, for people who have different preferences than you do. Maybe ones who don’t stoop to insulting broad groups of strangers who they don’t know anything about.
Linux is for people who need productivity and actually develop software.QuoteYes you are right, the new Trackpad is the only thing I actually like about it. But there is no right click....On a Mac, you have a choice of Ctrl+click, two finger tap, or two finger hold + thumb click. All three are in my experience easier to use than trackpads with discrete left/right hardware buttons.
Don't mind me, and apologies for my harsh opinion. I am very angry working on a Device I totally hate. My mac does lagg.
The nice thing is you can run it over top of the other two (or even run Windows over Linux).
Don't mind me, and apologies for my harsh opinion. I am very angry working on a Device I totally hate. My mac does lagg.
Agreed, my Mac lags as well now. But I take it is because it is old now. Am I mistaken? From Yosemite onwards the OS feels slow. But I always thought it is my aging Mac.
Don't mind me, and apologies for my harsh opinion. I am very angry working on a Device I totally hate. My mac does lagg.
Agreed, my Mac lags as well now. But I take it is because it is old now. Am I mistaken? From Yosemite onwards the OS feels slow. But I always thought it is my aging Mac.
For work I have a Late? 2015 MBP with a quad core i7, 16gb, and 512 SSD (about $3,000...company laptop.) It's fast enough, but the real bottle neck seems to be the SSD. For home I have a 5 year old laptop i7 quad, 16 gb Ram, and 2 x 512GB SSD in Raid 0 (about $1000 with ~$800 in upgrades.) I get better performance (unless it's processor intensive) with the 5 yr old laptop due to twice the disk I/O.
I run Deb8 as the host OS, and use VMware Workstation to run everything else - including OSX.
I do find the workflow in OS X struggles for me because the window management never wants to do what I want it to do.
Installing BetterSnapTool helps a lot. Basically I want my windows to occupy the monitor fully, but OS X loves to have small windows floating around. When you want to make it bigger, it goes totally fullscreen in its own desktop which is cumbersome to switch between.
That and for the life of me I don't get why folders aren't at the top in Finder.
Having said all that, I don't like the path Windows is going down one bit right now with its forced updates and such. I question how long until OS X is the same, though, since iOS is already like that.
Linux offers good flexibility and freedom that the others don't seem to offer right now. The nice thing is you can run it over top of the other two (or even run Windows over Linux).
It's not easy to get OSX running, and KEEP it running in VMware on non-Apple hardware. Either OSX updates or VMware updates often break things to where you can't boot it up without some more hackery. If you need OSX either don't install updates if virtualized or just use a Mac.
I don't have stats to back up my performance claims. Just anecdotal evidence. You're right, I should back it up with some real numbers. :)
Apple licencing forbids installing OS X on non-Apple hardware.
One thing that pisses me off about Mac cmd-backtick / cmd-shift-backtick (for rotating through windows within a particular app) is that they changed the ordering system a few years ago. Previously, they were ordered in chronological order by original creation time. Now they get reordered every time you leave them alone for a little bit, I think by how recently they were looked at (?). This is supposed to make it easier to use cmd-backtick to return to your previous window, but if you have more than 4 or 5 windows open in one app, the result is that you basically can’t ever get to the windows at the back of the queue, because every time you wait for a few seconds they get reshuffled. Additionally, there’s no stable ordering, so it’s impossible to predict which window will come next when you hit cmd-backtick another time. Really frustrating change. The only effective way to navigate in an app with >4 window is to now always use cmd-shift-backtick to go through the windows in "backwards" order, and just shuffle all the way through the whole queue if you want to go the other direction.
This thread seems to have plenty of analytical chatter already, but I have a very simple recommendation: slap some more RAM in there, like jacobolus has mentioned, dual boot your system with a Linux distro of choice, use it for awhile to see how it fits your needs, and then decide from there. No need to to make the big purchases and life altering OS shift right from the get-go.I totally agree with this. And I would also recommend you test a rolling release distribution so you will not have to worry about versioning. Manjaro Linux has been good to me since I started using it two years ago on my trusty old ThinkPad Edge.
I also do not like the direction Apple is going with their non-modular computers that basically force you to max out your specs for a significant price premium. Then it seems like your device is running slow on the latest Mac OS within a couple years, and you have to do it all over again. The upside is that Macs have great resale value, and you can sell your current model to pay for a new model.
I haven't noticed this - the most windows I have open for one app is about 3 (at home - that may change when I start using a Mac at work).I currently have about 50 windows open in Safari. :-)
I haven't noticed this - the most windows I have open for one app is about 3 (at home - that may change when I start using a Mac at work).I currently have about 50 windows open in Safari. :-)
Legitimate question: how the hell does your computer even function with that many open tabs? Do you have like 64GB of RAM or something.Safari works great with 200–300 open tabs. Chrome chokes after the first ~30, and Firefox can only handle about 100.
Legitimate question: how the hell does your computer even function with that many open tabs? Do you have like 64GB of RAM or something.Safari works great with 200–300 open tabs. Chrome chokes after the first ~30, and Firefox can only handle about 100.
16 GB of RAM.
One thing that pisses me off about Mac cmd-backtick / cmd-shift-backtick (for rotating through windows within a particular app) is that they changed the ordering system a few years ago. Previously, they were ordered in chronological order by original creation time. Now they get reordered every time you leave them alone for a little bit, I think by how recently they were looked at (?). This is supposed to make it easier to use cmd-backtick to return to your previous window, but if you have more than 4 or 5 windows open in one app, the result is that you basically can’t ever get to the windows at the back of the queue, because every time you wait for a few seconds they get reshuffled. Additionally, there’s no stable ordering, so it’s impossible to predict which window will come next when you hit cmd-backtick another time. Really frustrating change. The only effective way to navigate in an app with >4 window is to now always use cmd-shift-backtick to go through the windows in "backwards" order, and just shuffle all the way through the whole queue if you want to go the other direction.
I found myself using the same tools for writing research papers under linux as i used in osx.
The most comfortable solution for me is using a linux powered VPS for experiments and whatever OS on the laptop.
But if you have to use commercial software like microsoft office and do experiments on the same machine, than you have to use MacOS or Windows with a linux virtual machine or vice versa. Also Microsoft has now some kind of build in linux support anounced, figured out with canonical.
One thing that pisses me off about Mac cmd-backtick / cmd-shift-backtick (for rotating through windows within a particular app) is that they changed the ordering system a few years ago. Previously, they were ordered in chronological order by original creation time. Now they get reordered every time you leave them alone for a little bit, I think by how recently they were looked at (?). This is supposed to make it easier to use cmd-backtick to return to your previous window, but if you have more than 4 or 5 windows open in one app, the result is that you basically can’t ever get to the windows at the back of the queue, because every time you wait for a few seconds they get reshuffled. Additionally, there’s no stable ordering, so it’s impossible to predict which window will come next when you hit cmd-backtick another time. Really frustrating change. The only effective way to navigate in an app with >4 window is to now always use cmd-shift-backtick to go through the windows in "backwards" order, and just shuffle all the way through the whole queue if you want to go the other direction.
I haven't noticed this - the most windows I have open for one app is about 3 (at home - that may change when I start using a Mac at work).
This thread seems to have plenty of analytical chatter already, but I have a very simple recommendation: slap some more RAM in there, like jacobolus has mentioned, dual boot your system with a Linux distro of choice, use it for awhile to see how it fits your needs, and then decide from there. No need to to make the big purchases and life altering OS shift right from the get-go.
I also do not like the direction Apple is going with their non-modular computers that basically force you to max out your specs for a significant price premium. Then it seems like your device is running slow on the latest Mac OS within a couple years, and you have to do it all over again. The upside is that Macs have great resale value, and you can sell your current model to pay for a new model.
Also, I want to note something about this thread. We are airing quite a few grievances about the pitfalls of various operating systems, and it's easy to focus on the problems. I've only been involved with open source software for a few months now, but I've learned that writing good software is f-ing hard. Especially if it is something you do in your free time without pay. From what I can tell, many of those involved with Apple and Linux are very intelligent, ambituous, hard working individuals. And if some of the brightest people on this planet are crafting products that still have major flaws, I can only conclude that making great software is far from easy.
So I'm just gonna take a step back and marvel at the fact Mac OS and the flavors of Linux actually exist and function, whereas 35 years ago, neither of them existed. That's an f-ing achievement of mankind right there.
Enough praise, though, let's get back to identifying and solving problems.
I haven't noticed this - the most windows I have open for one app is about 3 (at home - that may change when I start using a Mac at work).I currently have about 50 windows open in Safari. :-)
I think the next version of the DSM will have a disorder for excessive open browser tab accumulation or something like that.
Legitimate question: how the hell does your computer even function with that many open tabs? Do you have like 64GB of RAM or something.
If you like the OSX UI, and your chief complaint is speed and price, I'm afraid you'll have to reach into your pocket deeper, and upgrade the hardware. You're not going to like the Linux landscape.
I say this as someone who used linux since 1996, exclusively (except for gaming), both at home, and at work, for coding and everything else I do on a computer. But I also hate the OSX UI with a passion, so I'm happy with what I was able to do with my Debian. If you are willing to customise the experience to your liking, and perhaps adapt to the OS, Linux may be a viable choice. But if your only complaint about OSX is the lag on older HW... I do not think it is a good idea to switch.
What you can try, however, is Linux in a VM. Put it in full screen, and see if you can use it. Give it all the resources you can, and run only the VM. It will be slower than on real hardware, yeah, but for a vast majority of coding tasks, it is perfectly acceptable - a lot of my friends work in a similar setup. If you end up liking it, THEN switch.
Legitimate question: how the hell does your computer even function with that many open tabs? Do you have like 64GB of RAM or something.Safari works great with 200–300 open tabs. Chrome chokes after the first ~30, and Firefox can only handle about 100.
16 GB of RAM.
Good to know. Chrome's penchant for hogging RAM is exactly why I choose not to use it, whenever possible. My Chromebook with 4GB of RAM chokes up with about 10 tabs, a video or music playing, and another app or two active. It's anemic.
I haven't noticed this - the most windows I have open for one app is about 3 (at home - that may change when I start using a Mac at work).I currently have about 50 windows open in Safari. :-)
Also, I want to note something about this thread. We are airing quite a few grievances about the pitfalls of various operating systems, and it's easy to focus on the problems. I've only been involved with open source software for a few months now, but I've learned that writing good software is f-ing hard. Especially if it is something you do in your free time without pay. From what I can tell, many of those involved with Apple and Linux are very intelligent, ambituous, hard working individuals. And if some of the brightest people on this planet are crafting products that still have major flaws, I can only conclude that making great software is far from easy.
So I'm just gonna take a step back and marvel at the fact Mac OS and the flavors of Linux actually exist and function, whereas 35 years ago, neither of them existed. That's an f-ing achievement of mankind right there.
Enough praise, though, let's get back to identifying and solving problems.
I currently have about 50 windows open in Safari. :-)
Sorry, are we talking about separate windows in one app, or separate tabs in one browser window?Separate browser windows. Probably 3–10 tabs each, maybe 300 tabs overall. It fluctuates a bit, occasionally I get down to <100 tabs.
Windows - hahaha. After all this time Microsoft still can't get it right and still don't know where they are going with it. Changing the look and feel DRASTICALLY between releases, hoping people won't notice it is still the same gold-painted fecal matter. To be a little fair to them though, they have had to contend with backwards compatibility across many version, and it sort of works. Unfortunately it means that they had to drag a lot of crap from old versions into each new version to maintain that backwards compatibility.
Windows - hahaha. After all this time Microsoft still can't get it right and still don't know where they are going with it. Changing the look and feel DRASTICALLY between releases, hoping people won't notice it is still the same gold-painted fecal matter. To be a little fair to them though, they have had to contend with backwards compatibility across many version, and it sort of works. Unfortunately it means that they had to drag a lot of crap from old versions into each new version to maintain that backwards compatibility.
I will NEVER use Microsoft NSA Spying OS Extra-Backdoors Deluxe on my desktop. Not with it attached to the internet. Windows 7 was relatively ok IMHO. After that, everything went downhill fast. Of course, it has always been WinNT 3.51 with a newer UI on-top of it.
Also, I want to note something about this thread. We are airing quite a few grievances about the pitfalls of various operating systems, and it's easy to focus on the problems. I've only been involved with open source software for a few months now, but I've learned that writing good software is f-ing hard. Especially if it is something you do in your free time without pay. From what I can tell, many of those involved with Apple and Linux are very intelligent, ambituous, hard working individuals. And if some of the brightest people on this planet are crafting products that still have major flaws, I can only conclude that making great software is far from easy.
So I'm just gonna take a step back and marvel at the fact Mac OS and the flavors of Linux actually exist and function, whereas 35 years ago, neither of them existed. That's an f-ing achievement of mankind right there.
Enough praise, though, let's get back to identifying and solving problems.
Agreed. Building a great OS is f**king difficult. Especially if you are aware of what an operating system actually has to manage nowadays. The requirements and the optimum seeking.. I figure OS software engineers are regularly pulling their hair out: great battery life, great performance, AND great multi-tasking and UI response. Great net IO. All at the same time. Driving a 4K screen and still have the battery last 7 hours.
But still I feel that real productivity software is gone downhill. Call me nostalgic or bearded, but I was there when Multiplan, Lotus 1-2-3, WordPerfect etc happened. That was software that really made you productive at the time. But Word nowadays and other so-called "productivity" software is a joke. Most of the time it gets in the way for me because of the "look at the pretty UI we made for you". I found Mac OS 7 and black-and-white Mac OS 6 the most beautiful operating system ever: just lean and mean black on white dialogs and toolbars with only essential color.
Windows - hahaha. After all this time Microsoft still can't get it right and still don't know where they are going with it. Changing the look and feel DRASTICALLY between releases, hoping people won't notice it is still the same gold-painted fecal matter. To be a little fair to them though, they have had to contend with backwards compatibility across many version, and it sort of works. Unfortunately it means that they had to drag a lot of crap from old versions into each new version to maintain that backwards compatibility.
I will NEVER use Microsoft NSA Spying OS Extra-Backdoors Deluxe on my desktop. Not with it attached to the internet. Windows 7 was relatively ok IMHO. After that, everything went downhill fast. Of course, it has always been WinNT 3.51 with a newer UI on-top of it.
Windows - hahaha. After all this time Microsoft still can't get it right and still don't know where they are going with it. Changing the look and feel DRASTICALLY between releases, hoping people won't notice it is still the same gold-painted fecal matter. To be a little fair to them though, they have had to contend with backwards compatibility across many version, and it sort of works. Unfortunately it means that they had to drag a lot of crap from old versions into each new version to maintain that backwards compatibility.
I will NEVER use Microsoft NSA Spying OS Extra-Backdoors Deluxe on my desktop. Not with it attached to the internet. Windows 7 was relatively ok IMHO. After that, everything went downhill fast. Of course, it has always been WinNT 3.51 with a newer UI on-top of it.
http://bgr.com/2015/08/28/windows-10-features-spying-windows-7-8/
Windows 7 isn't a peach either, unfortunately.
Also, I want to note something about this thread. We are airing quite a few grievances about the pitfalls of various operating systems, and it's easy to focus on the problems. I've only been involved with open source software for a few months now, but I've learned that writing good software is f-ing hard. Especially if it is something you do in your free time without pay. From what I can tell, many of those involved with Apple and Linux are very intelligent, ambituous, hard working individuals. And if some of the brightest people on this planet are crafting products that still have major flaws, I can only conclude that making great software is far from easy.
So I'm just gonna take a step back and marvel at the fact Mac OS and the flavors of Linux actually exist and function, whereas 35 years ago, neither of them existed. That's an f-ing achievement of mankind right there.
Enough praise, though, let's get back to identifying and solving problems.
Agreed. Building a great OS is f**king difficult. Especially if you are aware of what an operating system actually has to manage nowadays. The requirements and the optimum seeking.. I figure OS software engineers are regularly pulling their hair out: great battery life, great performance, AND great multi-tasking and UI response. Great net IO. All at the same time. Driving a 4K screen and still have the battery last 7 hours.
But still I feel that real productivity software is gone downhill. Call me nostalgic or bearded, but I was there when Multiplan, Lotus 1-2-3, WordPerfect etc happened. That was software that really made you productive at the time. But Word nowadays and other so-called "productivity" software is a joke. Most of the time it gets in the way for me because of the "look at the pretty UI we made for you". I found Mac OS 7 and black-and-white Mac OS 6 the most beautiful operating system ever: just lean and mean black on white dialogs and toolbars with only essential color.
You sound like you would absolutely love emacs. Bit of a learning curve, but pure unadulterated productivity after that with org-mode and whatever email client those people use. Read some good things recently about Alpine.
...
What are really really good and powerful laptops like the retina MacBook Pro but in PC-world but with acceptable battery life (6-7 hours) that do linux well?
So. Are there any workstation-like laptops that would allow me to use linux but simultaneously let me run OS X in a VM? Without sacrificing batterylife? Or am I being insane here?Why not the other way round, powerful macbook and VM with Linux? Sorry, haven't read the whole topic, it's too ****ing big.
Typically usage would be vim+tmux+latex on i3 or xfce and vmware with os x with MS word.
Or am I asking too much now?
What are really really good and powerful laptops like the retina MacBook Pro but in PC-world but with acceptable battery life (6-7 hours) that do linux well?
Why not the other way round, powerful macbook and VM with Linux? Sorry, haven't read the whole topic, it's too ****ing big.So there was no need for you to post...
Thanks for all the feedback. Really great!
So I've decided to try to run linux (arch, ubuntu, and debian) inside a vm and try to live with it's desktop environment (i3 and xfce.. f**k unity). If I like it, I might buy a PC laptop with linux OR PC desktop with linux with win or osx in vm for the real apps (ms word) and keep a MBP for the go.
But I'll wait for WWDC to see whether a new macbook makes sense (they should announce new retina macbooks this year) or whether I'll leave Apple for now and go the PC route with full linux.
It are difficult times.. I can only spend my money once. I used to like Apple hardware, but it's going downhill IMHO. I've always looked down on PC laptops given that it's always compromise somewhere (case or battery life or screen or keyboard or trackpad etc etc etc). But if Apple goes full retard like they seem to be, I'll probably switch. Sigh.
Thanks for all the feedback. Really great!
So I've decided to try to run linux (arch, ubuntu, and debian) inside a vm and try to live with it's desktop environment (i3 and xfce.. f**k unity). If I like it, I might buy a PC laptop with linux OR PC desktop with linux with win or osx in vm for the real apps (ms word) and keep a MBP for the go.
But I'll wait for WWDC to see whether a new macbook makes sense (they should announce new retina macbooks this year) or whether I'll leave Apple for now and go the PC route with full linux.
It are difficult times.. I can only spend my money once. I used to like Apple hardware, but it's going downhill IMHO. I've always looked down on PC laptops given that it's always compromise somewhere (case or battery life or screen or keyboard or trackpad etc etc etc). But if Apple goes full retard like they seem to be, I'll probably switch. Sigh.
Welcome to the rabbit hole of Linux! You'll never get out...
Thanks for all the feedback. Really great!
So I've decided to try to run linux (arch, ubuntu, and debian) inside a vm and try to live with it's desktop environment (i3 and xfce.. f**k unity). If I like it, I might buy a PC laptop with linux OR PC desktop with linux with win or osx in vm for the real apps (ms word) and keep a MBP for the go.
But I'll wait for WWDC to see whether a new macbook makes sense (they should announce new retina macbooks this year) or whether I'll leave Apple for now and go the PC route with full linux.
It are difficult times.. I can only spend my money once. I used to like Apple hardware, but it's going downhill IMHO. I've always looked down on PC laptops given that it's always compromise somewhere (case or battery life or screen or keyboard or trackpad etc etc etc). But if Apple goes full retard like they seem to be, I'll probably switch. Sigh.
Welcome to the rabbit hole of Linux! You'll never get out...
It's funny. People never understood why I switched to linux because "windows isn't that bad". So I switched to linux around 2001, with windows on the side for gaming. And then I tried windows around 2004 again for realz. And I noticed all this bugs and issues that I forgot to worry about. And I went back and all was good. Except for it wasn't. Coz dependency hell with packages, updates breaking config etc. So I switched to Mac. Which was great (given you have the money for it) up until Apple is thrusting their big fat juicy f*st up mine to get me to buy whatever crap they are pumping out nowadays.
You don't have to keep buying Apple gear, unless you need something only available in the latest model.
My Mac is 6+ years old and still running fine (albeit a little slowly). I have no immediate need to update.
My Apple laptop runs vm's with Linux pretty well. Also, it runs native Linux. Also, native Mac Os.
So my advice is to buy whichever hardware is better and has better deal.
You don't have to keep buying Apple gear, unless you need something only available in the latest model.
My Mac is 6+ years old and still running fine (albeit a little slowly). I have no immediate need to update.
Do you have el capitan running on it?
Things you need to know if you decide to buy a Macbook:My Apple laptop runs vm's with Linux pretty well. Also, it runs native Linux. Also, native Mac Os.
So my advice is to buy whichever hardware is better and has better deal.
Thanks! Yeah... I'll try vms for now. Time to see if I could make the switch for realz.
You don't have to keep buying Apple gear, unless you need something only available in the latest model.
My Mac is 6+ years old and still running fine (albeit a little slowly). I have no immediate need to update.
Do you have el capitan running on it?
No, only Mavericks. All the apps I need run under Mavericks.
Things you need to know if you decide to buy a Macbook:My Apple laptop runs vm's with Linux pretty well. Also, it runs native Linux. Also, native Mac Os.
So my advice is to buy whichever hardware is better and has better deal.
Thanks! Yeah... I'll try vms for now. Time to see if I could make the switch for realz.
1) Retina support is not perfect in Linux. Cinnamon supports it natively, but some programs, that you may run inside it, don't. This problem can be solved running Linux in a VM instead of natively.
2) Just a reminder that Apple keyboards are ****.
I read the reviews for El Capitan (that had the spectacular rating of 2.5 on iTunes Store) and decided to stay with Mavericks.You don't have to keep buying Apple gear, unless you need something only available in the latest model.
My Mac is 6+ years old and still running fine (albeit a little slowly). I have no immediate need to update.
Do you have el capitan running on it?
No, only Mavericks. All the apps I need run under Mavericks.
I've switched to el capitan in December 2015. I regret it every day... it is SO slow, especially I-O like file transfers and downloading. And multi-tasking. It is like vista. Under Mavericks, everything was good with my late 2010 mbp. My battery life has also gone down from mavericks to el capitan. Or "El Crapitan" as I like to call it.
But safari is much better on el capitan, I must admit that. The "dumbing down" of other apps like "Photos" is horrible though.
I read the reviews for El Capitan (that had the spectacular rating of 2.5 on iTunes Store) and decided to stay with Mavericks.You don't have to keep buying Apple gear, unless you need something only available in the latest model.
My Mac is 6+ years old and still running fine (albeit a little slowly). I have no immediate need to update.
Do you have el capitan running on it?
No, only Mavericks. All the apps I need run under Mavericks.
I've switched to el capitan in December 2015. I regret it every day... it is SO slow, especially I-O like file transfers and downloading. And multi-tasking. It is like vista. Under Mavericks, everything was good with my late 2010 mbp. My battery life has also gone down from mavericks to el capitan. Or "El Crapitan" as I like to call it.
But safari is much better on el capitan, I must admit that. The "dumbing down" of other apps like "Photos" is horrible though.
You don't have to keep buying Apple gear, unless you need something only available in the latest model.
My Mac is 6+ years old and still running fine (albeit a little slowly). I have no immediate need to update.
Do you have el capitan running on it?
No, only Mavericks. All the apps I need run under Mavericks.
I've switched to el capitan in December 2015. I regret it every day... it is SO slow, especially I-O like file transfers and downloading. And multi-tasking. It is like vista. Under Mavericks, everything was good with my late 2010 mbp. My battery life has also gone down from mavericks to el capitan. Or "El Crapitan" as I like to call it.
But safari is much better on el capitan, I must admit that. The "dumbing down" of other apps like "Photos" is horrible though.
You don't have to keep buying Apple gear, unless you need something only available in the latest model.
My Mac is 6+ years old and still running fine (albeit a little slowly). I have no immediate need to update.
Do you have el capitan running on it?
No, only Mavericks. All the apps I need run under Mavericks.
I've switched to el capitan in December 2015. I regret it every day... it is SO slow, especially I-O like file transfers and downloading. And multi-tasking. It is like vista. Under Mavericks, everything was good with my late 2010 mbp. My battery life has also gone down from mavericks to el capitan. Or "El Crapitan" as I like to call it.
But safari is much better on el capitan, I must admit that. The "dumbing down" of other apps like "Photos" is horrible though.
I read the reviews and performance comparisons and decided to upgrade from Snow Leopard to Mavericks and no further.
Some things are slower than before - I blame the compressed memory feature. But I haven't been bothered enough to disable it yet.
You don't have to keep buying Apple gear, unless you need something only available in the latest model.
My Mac is 6+ years old and still running fine (albeit a little slowly). I have no immediate need to update.
Do you have el capitan running on it?
No, only Mavericks. All the apps I need run under Mavericks.
I've switched to el capitan in December 2015. I regret it every day... it is SO slow, especially I-O like file transfers and downloading. And multi-tasking. It is like vista. Under Mavericks, everything was good with my late 2010 mbp. My battery life has also gone down from mavericks to el capitan. Or "El Crapitan" as I like to call it.
But safari is much better on el capitan, I must admit that. The "dumbing down" of other apps like "Photos" is horrible though.
I read the reviews and performance comparisons and decided to upgrade from Snow Leopard to Mavericks and no further.
Some things are slower than before - I blame the compressed memory feature. But I haven't been bothered enough to disable it yet.
So Mavericks is it then? What'll you do after Mavericks? Go to Windows or Linux?
So Mavericks is it then? What'll you do after Mavericks? Go to Windows or Linux?
Upgrade the hardware. TBH this one is getting a bit long in the tooth (it's a late 2009 Mac mini), but still works.
Reboot once a month or so to install updates, rock solid otherwise and has been that way since the day I got it!
Getting OS X to run on a PC is a bit tricky, and unfortunately updates tend to cause some headaches. There are all kinds of resources out there for "Hackintosh" builds (best to get OSX supported hardware). I have yet to hear of OS X being run in a virtual machine.Warning: a rant follows.
That's why I (used to) stick with Mac... reliable hardware that simply doesn't fail. I have had zero issues with my MBP that is now 5 years and 6 months old. Zero. That's my fear with PC laptops.. good for a year and then these random issues start appearing... fans, battery, trackpad, monitors, hinges, etc.
Getting OS X to run on a PC is a bit tricky, and unfortunately updates tend to cause some headaches. There are all kinds of resources out there for "Hackintosh" builds (best to get OSX supported hardware). I have yet to hear of OS X being run in a virtual machine.Warning: a rant follows.
This annoys me a bit. Apple has always sold personal computers. It doesn't even make sense to make it Apple versus WIntel anymore either, because Apple's hardware has had ordinary x86 (x86-64) architecture for years too.
The whole OS X versus non-Apple hardware boils down to
- Apple's hardware-software bundling (which is actually technically illegal at least in some countries, but there's little incentive to act on that);
- Apple OS X' nasty EULA;
- and consequent lack of hardware support, because who'd work on drivers and what not?
Some random remarks:
Apple isn't the only company making ultrabooks or high-end laptops in general. Leslieann has had some neat posts about that (w/ Sony Vaio praise IIRC).
Apple isn't the only company with good support. AFAIK you can get, e.g., excellent extended support from IBM with Lenovo ThinkPads.
GNU/Linux support on macbooks is far from great. In fact, Apple apparently breaks things on purpose, which is a bit reminiscent of the Alternative OS on PS3 fiasco. Specifically, I hear that OS X has been recently updated so that mb's video output doesn't work in GNU/Linux anymore.
There are also cases of great third-party support, but not cheap. For example, I've heard good things about Emperor Linux.
On a different note, have you considered going with server hardware + a laptop as a thick client? Interactive data analysis (e.g., w/ Python + NumPy/SciPy and IPython) is often done like this.
True, great idea. I do hope though that the new retina macbook pro will allow for 64GB of ram. That would be awesome.Don't even dream about it ;-)
True, great idea. I do hope though that the new retina macbook pro will allow for 64GB of ram. That would be awesome.Don't even dream about it ;-)
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Apple's hardware-software bundling (which is actually technically illegal at least in some countries, but there's little incentive to act on that); Apple OS X' nasty EULA;Can you list these countries, and explain exactly what is illegal?
Specifically, I hear that OS X has been recently updated so that mb's video output doesn't work in GNU/Linux anymore.Are you saying that old hardware that used to work fine with Linux has been broken by an OS X update? That sounds implausible, can you link to a source, or elaborate a bit?
very pricey for what you getI think this is an unfair summary. The prices have generally been comparable (I’d estimate 90–120% of the price, depending on what time you make the comparison) to similarly specced and equally solidly built machines from other vendors. They just don’t bother competing at the cutthroat low end, where most other laptop sales happen.
Retina support is not perfect in Linux. Cinnamon supports it natively, but some programs, that you may run inside it, don't. This problem can be solved running Linux in a VM instead of natively.It’s pretty unfortunate that many Linux and Windows apps still don’t handle high-resolution displays very well.
Just a reminder that Apple keyboards are ****.Compared to what? This is a keyboard forum, so I’m sure everyone has obscure preferences, but in my opinion all the scissor-switch boards are pretty terrible, and Apple’s are among the least ****ty of the bunch. If you need a better typing experience, get an external keyboard and call it a day.
I read the reviews for El Capitan (that had the spectacular rating of 2.5 on iTunes Store) and decided to stay with Mavericks.
Product tying. You should be able to return, for instance, unused bundled MS Windows licenses, if you disagree with the EULA, in most European countries. The same applies to Apple, but good luck with that in practice; even majority of MS-friendly vendors straight up refuse to accept license returns in some markets (e.g., Czech).Apple's hardware-software bundling (which is actually technically illegal at least in some countries, but there's little incentive to act on that); Apple OS X' nasty EULA;Can you list these countries, and explain exactly what is illegal?
Which part of their EULA do you think is nasty?A better question would be what isn't nasty in there? Well, I can't think of anything. Anyway, apart from the usual stuff, my favorite part of OS X 10.11 EULA is that you can have up to one system backup.
I've seen it irl, but don't have a link to a website. It had something to do with the way the OS disabled the output after cable was disconnected.Specifically, I hear that OS X has been recently updated so that mb's video output doesn't work in GNU/Linux anymore.Are you saying that old hardware that used to work fine with Linux has been broken by an OS X update? That sounds implausible, can you link to a source, or elaborate a bit?
I don't think there is product tying with Apple as hardware and software are both produced by Apple.Product tying. You should be able to return, for instance, unused bundled MS Windows licenses, if you disagree with the EULA, in most European countries. The same applies to Apple, but good luck with that in practice; even majority of MS-friendly vendors straight up refuse to accept license returns in some markets (e.g., Czech).Apple's hardware-software bundling (which is actually technically illegal at least in some countries, but there's little incentive to act on that); Apple OS X' nasty EULA;Can you list these countries, and explain exactly what is illegal?
Compared to what?Compared to my cheap HP laptop for example.
MS Windows/Explorer was a case of product tying.I don't think there is product tying with Apple as hardware and software are both produced by Apple.Product tying. You should be able to return, for instance, unused bundled MS Windows licenses, if you disagree with the EULA, in most European countries. The same applies to Apple, but good luck with that in practice; even majority of MS-friendly vendors straight up refuse to accept license returns in some markets (e.g., Czech).Apple's hardware-software bundling (which is actually technically illegal at least in some countries, but there's little incentive to act on that); Apple OS X' nasty EULA;Can you list these countries, and explain exactly what is illegal?
There are no Microsoft computers besides Surface models and this is why the customers should be able to be offered other operating systems on Windows-compatible laptops.
Apple's hardware-software bundling (which is actually technically illegal at least in some countries, but there's little incentive to act on that); Apple OS X' nasty EULA;
Can you list these countries, and explain exactly what is illegal?
Product tying. You should be able to return, for instance, unused bundled MS Windows licenses, if you disagree with the EULA, in most European countries. The same applies to Apple, but good luck with that in practice; even majority of MS-friendly vendors straight up refuse to accept license returns in some markets (e.g., Czech).This is a pretty wishy-washy explanation.
A better question would be what isn't nasty in there? Well, I can't think of anything. Anyway, apart from the usual stuff, my favorite part of OS X 10.11 EULA is that you can have up to one system backup.More precisely, you can have one backup of the OS X software. Doesn’t say anything about the rest of your system. Presumably this is to work around some kind of loophole where someone starts selling copies of OS X on pirate DVDs.
Just a reminder that Apple keyboards are ****.
Compared to what?
Compared to my cheap HP laptop for example.We’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I’ve tried at least 10 different types of cheap HP laptop keyboards over the years, and every one was utter garbage.
Yeah, the keyboard on that HP is quite crappy, but still much better than this slippery **** with 1 mm travel and retarded layout.Just a reminder that Apple keyboards are ****.Compared to what?Compared to my cheap HP laptop for example.We’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I’ve tried at least 10 different types of cheap HP laptop keyboards over the years, and every one was utter garbage.
Yeah, the keyboard on that HP is quite crappy, but still much better than this slippery **** with 1 mm travel and retarded layout.Which Apple keyboard are we talking about? As I said, I think the 12" Macbook has switches without enough travel. I also don’t particularly like the Macbook Air keyboards. The Macbook Pro is still okay by laptop keyboard standards, and I (sadly) haven’t tried any modern laptop by anyone else with a better keyboard (unless you consider those monstrosities with low-resolution 17" displays and built-in Cherry MX keyboards to be “laptops”). The Apple laptop keyboards from ~2003 were marginally better in my opinion, but they’ve slimmed the keyboard down slightly since then.
My Caps Lock is mapped to Command. System-wide backspace is Cmd-H. System-wide escape is Cmd-[.Yeah, the keyboard on that HP is quite crappy, but still much better than this slippery **** with 1 mm travel and retarded layout.Which Apple keyboard are we talking about? As I said, I think the 12" Macbook has switches without enough travel. I also don’t particularly like the Macbook Air keyboards. The Macbook Pro is still okay by laptop keyboard standards, and I (sadly) haven’t tried any modern laptop by anyone else with a better keyboard (unless you consider those monstrosities with low-resolution 17" displays and built-in Cherry MX keyboards to be “laptops”). The Apple laptop keyboards from ~2003 were marginally better in my opinion, but they’ve slimmed the keyboard down slightly since then.
As for layout, standard IBM-style QWERTY layout is universally garbage, and Apple’s version is no better or worse than anyone else’s. There has never been a computer sold with a remotely reasonable keyboard layout.
To start with, any keyboard which includes caps lock in a prominent position, relegates the backwards delete and escape keys to unreachable positions in the top corners, and only has 1 key in the combined primary range of both thumbs was designed by an idiot. (Or to be specific, was designed by a few different idiots 30–100 years ago, and then slavishly copied by generations of unimaginative cowards.)
Trivial choices like giving ⇟ a discrete button vs. using fn + ↓ for it aren’t worth arguing about, in the face of the century-out-of-date core concept behind all of these keyboards.
The only way to get a well designed portable keyboard is to build it yourself.
My Caps Lock is mapped to Command. System-wide backspace is Cmd-H. System-wide escape is Cmd-[.You overloaded the shortcuts for hiding the current app and navigating through history (or cycling tabs, or adjusting the text indent, depending on the app)?
Excuse me, low resolution (120 ppi) 18.4" display: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834152706Nah, 120dpi and MX Browns... Not my cuppa.
I think they had a 17" version as well, but I don’t have a model number for you. Either way, while I grant that Cherry MX is nicer to type on than scissor switches, I wouldn’t call these “laptops”.
Excuse me, low resolution (120 ppi) 18.4" display: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834152706I need neither. I switch programs by Tab+j/l and cycle through tabs with Cmd+Shift+j/l.
I think they had a 17" version as well, but I don’t have a model number for you. Either way, while I grant that Cherry MX is nicer to type on than scissor switches, I wouldn’t call these “laptops”.QuoteMy Caps Lock is mapped to Command. System-wide backspace is Cmd-H. System-wide escape is Cmd-[.You overloaded the shortcuts for hiding the current app and navigating through history (or cycling tabs, or adjusting the text indent, depending on the app)?
Hackintosh, I did and I'm happy :), also learn VIM then it doesn't matter what OS you're working on everything is great :P
Apple is arguably selling an experience as they design both hardware and software. They can't be forced to offer other operating systems on their products unlike Asus, HP, Lenovo and others.
And I am as far as one could be from being an Apple-maniac.
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Yeah, the keyboard on that HP is quite crappy, but still much better than this slippery **** with 1 mm travel and retarded layout.Just a reminder that Apple keyboards are ****.Compared to what?Compared to my cheap HP laptop for example.We’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I’ve tried at least 10 different types of cheap HP laptop keyboards over the years, and every one was utter garbage.
It would be an antitrust case.Apple is arguably selling an experience as they design both hardware and software. They can't be forced to offer other operating systems on their products unlike Asus, HP, Lenovo and others.
And I am as far as one could be from being an Apple-maniac.
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Well... I may be wrong on this one, but isn't it the case once vendors are into the MS OEM program, the terms preclude / disallow them from installing anything else than Windows on their machines?
Isn't that also what the UEFI story was about a while back?
iLLucionist: can you please not use yellow text on this forum? It is completely illegible with some themes.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/mS4tlld.png)
Ideally you could avoid colored text altogether, but if you absolutely must used colored text, I recommend orange (like this, for example). Also, I recommend not using extremely large text without some very good reason. If you need to add emphasis, try italics (everyone loves italics).
iLLucionist, from what I gather, you may not be wealthy; but you are not a starving student either. If you want the easiest and most reliable experience possible get a new Macbook and use Fusion to run VMs. There are many other options that will cost less money, but will cost you more time.