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geekhack Community => Other Geeky Stuff => Topic started by: itlnstln on Wed, 16 December 2009, 11:01:14

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 16 December 2009, 11:01:14

I am looking for a cheap NAS (1TB) for my music and some videos.  Does anyone know of a low-priced solution?  I don't need a whole lot of functionality, just something to access files over a LAN without needing another computer (i.e. so I don't have to have my desktop and laptop on).  I saw this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=390127952937&Category=3757&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D2) on eBay, and it would be perfect, but I don't know how well it would work (that, and the lights are cheesy).

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: AndrewZorn on Wed, 16 December 2009, 11:09:34

DD-WRT capable router with USB port + external storage device of your choice

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 16 December 2009, 11:17:23

Quote from: AndrewZorn;142953

DD-WRT capable router with USB port + external storage device of your choice

Sounds like a good idea and would kill 2 birds with one stone (I want a faster router, too).  Wouldn't the USB 2.0 interface be a little slow, though?

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: AndrewZorn on Wed, 16 December 2009, 11:23:29

i dont know how fast a typical pure NAS device is
but the hdd itself is limited to about 60mbps most of the time (EDIT though i realize this generalization might be like 5 years old)
so 30mbps over USB isnt that bad

i think the advantages in versatility far outweigh the lower speed... which should still be plenty for streaming 1080p video, etc

i havent set one up yet but i do plan on doing this when i get home.  i have done the DD-WRT thing to my current router, but it does not have a USB port.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 16 December 2009, 11:43:07

This guy (http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=WAa6AQFncrceRBEo&templete=2) has it all and is DD-WRT compatible but not necessary for HD support.  I might pick this up and a USB HD.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: AndrewZorn on Wed, 16 December 2009, 11:45:46

a lot will be advertised to work with a printer, but that USB port can usually be used for a hard drive.

tough part is, usually.  you think it would work every time, but it doesnt.  so you need to find the router, ensure that it can take DD-WRT, and then ensure that the USB port can be used for hard drives.
it is really neat that when combined with a hub, you can just kind of keep slapping external hard drives into your closet to add to the capacity.  no more wires, plugs etc around the end-use computer.  all clean.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 16 December 2009, 11:52:23

Quote from: AndrewZorn;142984

a lot will be advertised to work with a printer, but that USB port can usually be used for a hard drive.
 
tough part is, usually. you think it would work every time, but it doesnt. so you need to find the router, ensure that it can take DD-WRT, and then ensure that the USB port can be used for hard drives.
it is really neat that when combined with a hub, you can just kind of keep slapping external hard drives into your closet to add to the capacity. no more wires, plugs etc around the end-use computer. all clean.

The site says it'll work out-of-the-box with a HDD.  It also states that it is DD-WRT Compatible, so if it doesn't work out-of-the-box, I can go that route.  This should be a perfect solution, and I hope the speed is OK.  If I go this route, I will need to upgrade the switches around the house to Gigabit, but that won't be a problem.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: AndrewZorn on Wed, 16 December 2009, 11:58:05

oh
didnt actually wait for the page to load, just saw that it was an asus
so now they ADVERTISE DD-WRT compatibility?  wow

i still think it shouldnt be any slower than a USB HDD
which for most (MOST) applications is fine
as long as you dont plan on installing crysis on the external drive it should be fine
ive never noticed stuttering on HD movies or anything because of it being on an external drive

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 16 December 2009, 12:38:15

That's the problem.  My desktop is a POS and crashes occasionally, so I don't trust it for being a makeshift NAS.  I don't really use my desktop anymore, so getting another PC is kinda pointless.  A NAS is a little more what I am looking for: small, low-power, reasonable speed.  I kinda like the router idea, because it seems like it would be easily expandable, but I am worried about speed.  I could use a new router, though.  I am going to think about it over the next couple of weeks and make a decision when I come back from Chicago.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: bigpook on Wed, 16 December 2009, 13:10:14

Quote from: ripster;143007

View it as an opportunity to upgrade your main PC and throw the old one in a wiring closet.

Show Image

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=6458&stc=1&d=1260988050)

Its an AMD X2 something or other.  So long ago I've touched it I have no idea which one.  I just wish Microsoft would do a better job integrating Home Server and Media Center so I could get rid of Vista and Acronis on it.

I noticed the blue led light and thought I would share a story.

I had bought a cheap small box off of newegg for a webserver to play with. It came with a blue led on the front of the box. Looked kind of nice. I put the box in the closet off of the master bedroom with the blue LED facing the wall. After awhile, I stopped noticing the box all together.

I would ssh in to run updates and play with apache but never had the need for a local console. This box was on 24/7 FWIW.

Many months go by(year maybe) and I go to take the machine offline. I noticed the blue led wasn't working anymore... I open the box and the two wires that went to the blue LED had melted/shorted together and were stuck to the IDE ribbon cable of the hard drive. A little bit more heat and  it would have shorted the ribbon cable. I would have found out pretty soon as the hard drive would probably not be accessible but as it was, it still ran fine.


The box was good otherwise but got me to wondering if I was just lucky and didn't burn down the house.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: timw4mail on Wed, 16 December 2009, 13:31:08

Quote from: bigpook;143020

I noticed the blue led light and thought I would share a story.

I had bought a cheap small box off of newegg for a webserver to play with. It came with a blue led on the front of the box. Looked kind of nice. I put the box in the closet off of the master bedroom with the blue LED facing the wall. After awhile, I stopped noticing the box all together.

I would ssh in to run updates and play with apache but never had the need for a local console. This box was on 24/7 FWIW.

Many months go by(year maybe) and I go to take the machine offline. I noticed the blue led wasn't working anymore... I open the box and the two wires that went to the blue LED had melted/shorted together and were stuck to the IDE ribbon cable of the hard drive. A little bit more heat and  it would have shorted the ribbon cable. I would have found out pretty soon as the hard drive would probably not be accessible but as it was, it still ran fine.


The box was good otherwise but got me to wondering if I was just lucky and didn't burn down the house.

Were these cold cathodes?

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: AndrewZorn on Wed, 16 December 2009, 13:49:15

you almost let me forget about those, have to have one to put in my "lian li".  i have the same plan, keep the case for ages.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: bigpook on Wed, 16 December 2009, 13:53:45

Don't know if  they were cold cathode. I will say that it was a cheap setup. I don't think the case was meant to be powered on 24/7. The blue LED looked like an inexpensive implementation.
I am trying to find it on newegg, if I do, I will post a link.

Ok, I found it.link (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811190005)

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 16 December 2009, 14:02:37

Ouch.  That sucks.  I had a friend when I was a kid that started a fire in his kitchen frying bologna (ugh, fried bologna - so wrong).

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: bigpook on Wed, 16 December 2009, 14:04:51

That would really ruin your day. A toasted home would make for a miserable time.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: microsoft windows on Wed, 16 December 2009, 19:05:33

I bet the bankers think you're a nerd.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: didjamatic on Wed, 16 December 2009, 20:19:04

Netgear ReadyNAS.  I've been recommending them since they were Infrant before Netgear bought them and for the price they are a great system for home network storage.  You can start with 1-2 drives and then add up to 4 total as you go, without starting over with your data.  Don't be a sucker, have a hot spare drive to protect you from failures.  All drives fail, SATA drives fail sooner than many others and high density SATA drives have an even greater chance of failure so be sure you set it up with some redundancy rather than simply maximizing your storage capacity.

Check Newegg, Provantage and Amazon once you pick a model.  Sometimes one is significantly cheaper than the others.

I personally just keep lots of storage in my PC and share it on the network, then run Mozy for backup but you said you want a separate device.  $5/month for unlimited storage and I've been using them successfully for nearly 2 years.  Nothing beats fully automated backups.  An alternative is Carbonite or Spideroak.  I think with Spideroak you can access your data from anywhere which is a bonus.  But I've stuck with Mozy and am backing up 175GB.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: twokatmew on Wed, 16 December 2009, 20:29:50

I've got a D-Link DNS-323 with two 1TB drives in RAID1.  I've got two FreeAgent Gos that I rotate and store one in my safe deposit box.   I got a bigger box too, so I can put hard drives and DVDs of static data in there.

That Asus  router is nice, except IIRC it's only 2.4GHz and doesn't do 5GHz.  I run DD-WRT on my Linksys, and I wouldn't use anything but DD-WRT now.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: Shawn Stanford on Thu, 17 December 2009, 07:46:53

I think I'm going to find a cheap used PC and go the FreeNAS (http://www.freenas.org) route. Unfortunately, I just tossed a perfect candidate onto the trash pile a couple months ago.

Anyone have an aging desktop they'll part with cheap..?

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 17 December 2009, 09:20:08

I use a 1TB raid 5 on my server to store everything. The pictures, music and financial stuff get burned to DVD and are in a safe deposit box at the bank.

If the house is on fire and I am there, the first thing I get out of the house is the raid 5 server : )
Everything else is just stuff and can be replaced.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: twokatmew on Thu, 17 December 2009, 09:28:50

Quote from: Shawn Stanford;143208

I think I'm going to find a cheap used PC and go the FreeNAS (http://www.freenas.org) route. Unfortunately, I just tossed a perfect candidate onto the trash pile a couple months ago.

Anyone have an aging desktop they'll part with cheap..?

How cheap?

I have an Athlon X2 3200+ with 1GB RAM, running on an Abit NF7S2 w/ ATI PowerColor Radeon 9200 (128MB).  Other components include: Antec TruePower 2.0 430w PSU, NEC ND-3540A DVD writer, CoolerMaster Centurion 5 case.  In addition to the onboard NIC, it's got a 1GB PCI ethernet card.

I built the machine for testing and have rarely used it.  Wouldn't be all that cheap to ship though, I don't think, as it's rather heavy.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 17 December 2009, 09:30:32

Quote from: bigpook;143239

Everything else is just stuff and can be replaced.

Other than the hassle of actually doing the work, I view break-ins as upgrade time (Hell, I pay for the insurance).  That said, I don't keep anything truly "valuable" in the house.  In actuality, I really don't have much that's "truly valuable."
 
Fires, on the other hand, are a real nightmare.  I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 17 December 2009, 09:41:02

Fires would be a nightmare. And they do happen, hopefully to other people and not me.
Stuff is stuff though and yes, insurance should cover the replacement cost.

But I have gigs of pictures which are all digital that can't be replaced and yes, the music can be replaced but I don't want to have to redo a 100G collection.  Hence the safety deposit box.
Ideally, I should probably pay for an online service and back up everything to the cloud.
Encrypted of course.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: Shawn Stanford on Thu, 17 December 2009, 09:50:07

Quote from: twokatmew;143243

How cheap?

I have an Athlon X2 3200+ with 1GB RAM, running on an Abit NF7S2 w/ ATI PowerColor Radeon 9200 (128MB).  Other components include: Antec TruePower 2.0 430w PSU, NEC ND-3540A DVD writer, CoolerMaster Centurion 5 case.  In addition to the onboard NIC, it's got a 1GB PCI ethernet card.

I built the machine for testing and have rarely used it.  Wouldn't be all that cheap to ship though, I don't think, as it's rather heavy.

Honestly, I'm not prepared to spend more than $50 at this point. I'm planning on dropping in a 1Tb drive (at least) and I have piles of miscellaneous parts laying around from old computers. All I really need is a mainboard, CPU, case and power supply - and they don't have to be all that powerful. If there was a Computer Rennaissance around here, I'd go fish through their dumpster for something suitable.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: Shawn Stanford on Thu, 17 December 2009, 10:03:37

Hmm... It's probably past time to invest in some offsite backup...

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 17 December 2009, 10:04:41

Quote from: ripster;143253

Well, I'd get the family out first.  Wife, kid, dog, snake... the fish can fend for themselves.  Wait until I tell your wife.  No HHKB2 for you!

And I don't trust clouds.  My wife's SSN was stolen along with a hospital's laptop.

Yes, silly. The wife and 2 dogs get out first, then the raid box.

Clouds are ok, just encrypt the data. You never know who will be looking at your data....

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 17 December 2009, 10:10:51

I'm with you, Ripster.  I keep that stuff to where only I can access it.  I just don't trust sending my personal data somewhere where I cannot physically access it.  I don't trust people.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: twokatmew on Thu, 17 December 2009, 10:25:24

Quote from: Shawn Stanford;143252

Honestly, I'm not prepared to spend more than $50 at this point. I'm planning on dropping in a 1Tb drive (at least) and I have piles of miscellaneous parts laying around from old computers. All I really need is a mainboard, CPU, case and power supply - and they don't have to be all that powerful. If there was a Computer Rennaissance around here, I'd go fish through their dumpster for something suitable.

Well I certainly have parts!  Let's see.  I've got:

FoxConn NF4UK8AA-8EKRS mainboard, NIB
AMD Athlon 64 3800 (works with NF4U board)
AMD Athlon X2 2800+
ThermalTake 430w PSU, only used for testing

I've got two cases, one with an Antec 350w PSU, and although they're not as heavy as the CoolerMaster, probably too much to ship.  But ... if you're interested in any of the above, lemme know.  :smile:

Re online backup:  I use Acronis TI 2010, which now offers an online backup.  The backup options are pretty granular, and I encrypt my data.  What's really nice is that it doesn't require any extra client, as it's all built into ATI.  The only problem is that I've got a 1.5Mbps upload cap, so getting my data there at the beginning takes a l-o-n-g time.  Subsequent backups are fast, of course.  So I only use the online storage for frequently changing data I can't afford to lose.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 17 December 2009, 10:25:48

Depending on how Santa treats me, I may even pony up for this beast (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148485).

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: Shawn Stanford on Thu, 17 December 2009, 10:39:15

Hmm... a 2TB NAS for $349. Two 1TB drives is about $160 from Newegg, so you're paying $190 for the hardware/software and the ease-of-use.

I can see that, but it sort of takes the fun out of it.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 17 December 2009, 10:47:46

I'm not in it for the fun anymore.  About 5 years ago, I would have gone the FreeNAS route, but I don't have the time or the desire anymore.  I also need something that runs cool.  My PC can heat up the room, so buying another PC and using the old one for a NAS won't really work because of that, too.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 17 December 2009, 10:55:24

Quote from: webwit;143276

Dead magazines are dead. What do they know? I bet nothing. Imagine what their keyboard recommendation would be, how much would they know, and would they be qualified to say something meaningful about it?

You lost me there.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 17 December 2009, 11:02:09

Quote from: webwit;143278

I was referring to Ripster's Maximum PC's recommendation.

Ah...  I should practice my reading comprehension skills.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 17 December 2009, 11:04:28

Quote from: ripster;143259

But this is what I don't understand.  If an employee can access the key and the data where's the security?

You have the key, the employee only sees an encrypted file. He doesn't have the key to open it.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 17 December 2009, 11:06:25

Quote from: ripster;143282

Something about, "they allow EVERYTHING".

Only in Hamsterdam.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: Shawn Stanford on Thu, 17 December 2009, 11:48:22

Quote from: twokatmew;143265

Well I certainly have parts!  Let's see.  I've got:

FoxConn NF4UK8AA-8EKRS mainboard, NIB
AMD Athlon 64 3800 (works with NF4U board)
AMD Athlon X2 2800+
ThermalTake 430w PSU, only used for testing

I've got two cases, one with an Antec 350w PSU, and although they're not as heavy as the CoolerMaster, probably too much to ship.  But ... if you're interested in any of the above, lemme know.  :smile:

Well, I'm interested in the MB, AMD 3800+ and the case with the PS, but I can't offer you what they're worth...

Someone locally is selling a 6 year-old eMachines for $50 on craigslist. Frankly, that ought to cover it.  :lol:

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 17 December 2009, 12:14:53

I guess what you are looking for is off-site storage where the actual container is encrypted and you are the only one with the  key.

Or, tar up the data locally, compress and encrypt before you push up to the cloud.


I would prefer an encrpyted container that I can rsync to on an hourly basis.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: ironcoder on Thu, 17 December 2009, 13:20:35

Quote from: bigpook;143312

I guess what you are looking for is off-site storage where the actual container is encrypted and you are the only one with the  key.

Or, tar up the data locally, compress and encrypt before you push up to the cloud.


I would prefer an encrpyted container that I can rsync to on an hourly basis.

You and a buddy could set up a mutual deal where you allow each other one drive to rsync between them. If you encrypt and then just send over the tarfile every hour it ought to work fine. I am not sure but I think it took me less than ten minutes the few times I tried to encrypt a DVD's worth of data. Not bad. Not sure how long it would take to send it down the street over the net.

I have crappy internet service because of where I live but if you have a good high speed connection it would probably work well. On the other hand I don't have to worry about theft or fires or bombs, etc. I back up my systems to separate drives in the same case. That ought to be enough.

Like most of you guys, I don't trust clouds or offsite backups. Somebody said if it's that important burn a DVD or BlueRay and put it in a safe place. But not a bank.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: ironcoder on Thu, 17 December 2009, 13:25:38

Quote from: ripster;143310

If you are as paranoid as I am about identity theft issues it appears SpiderOak does encrypt locally before sending off the info.

If you're really paranoid you ought not to trust an application that claims to encrypt locally and pipe the data. They just may pipe your keys along with your data, how do you know? Personally I wouldn't piss on a setup like that if it was on fire.

If you want to know it's yours, do your own encryption and never let anything off your box without it.

Quote from: ripster;143310

 Or you could go through the logistics of encrypting yourself and THEN sending off the data.

That's the smart man's choice. It's really trivial to do, there are acouple of nice tools available.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: Shawn Stanford on Thu, 17 December 2009, 14:02:54

I guess it depends on how worried you are about data security, and what sorts of information you have unsecured. Aren't there tools that will reside in the OS that will password encrypt/decrypt files in a particular directory? That being the case, you could save your scans of personal documents and downloaded bank records in there and just leave all the digital pics of the family reunion picnic in an unencrypted directory.

Title: Cheap NAS
Post by: AndrewZorn on Thu, 17 December 2009, 17:32:44

yeah, truecrypt is pretty awesome.