geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: chryos1029 on Mon, 25 April 2016, 08:30:02
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I'm wondering if that does both of the layout differ from each other much?
I'm thinking whether the 60% with HHKB layout suits me well or the 65% which has the arrow keys is better?
What's your opinion?
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Do you need arrow keys or not? Quickest way to find out is to use touchcursor and see if IJKL, WASD or something else works for you.
After a few days, I found out that not having arrows is not a problem for me. In fact, I prefer having my arrows on the home row using capslock as FN and either IJKL or WASD for arrows.
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There is no opinion, if you want arrow keys, go with 65%, if not, do not. Or do and have them, just in case, I don't care. Or do some weird custom abomination with... detachable arrow-key cluster and... I don't know what I'm talking about.
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I like arrow keys, so I'm building a Clueboard. I also like the insert/delete keys without going for a full TKL.
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I like arrow keys, so I'm building a Clueboard. I also like the insert/delete keys without going for a full TKL.
What do you use Insert/Delete keys for?
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I like arrow keys, so I'm building a Clueboard. I also like the insert/delete keys without going for a full TKL.
What do you use Insert/Delete keys for?
It's going to be my board for work, I'm a programmer. So that.
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I like arrow keys, so I'm building a Clueboard. I also like the insert/delete keys without going for a full TKL.
What do you use Insert/Delete keys for?
It's going to be my board for work, I'm a programmer. So that.
I started with a 60% (programmer too), just because I figured that unless I get rid of them, I won't know if I really need them. So far, I don't. One extra layer gives me everything I need, and I don't even have to move my hands anymore to do it (used to use brief, which had me going to the keypad all the time). The point is, just because you know you need them for your programming, doesn't mean you might not try without, and see if the workarounds work for you.
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I like arrow keys, so I'm building a Clueboard. I also like the insert/delete keys without going for a full TKL.
What do you use Insert/Delete keys for?
It's going to be my board for work, I'm a programmer. So that.
I started with a 60% (programmer too), just because I figured that unless I get rid of them, I won't know if I really need them. So far, I don't. One extra layer gives me everything I need, and I don't even have to move my hands anymore to do it (used to use brief, which had me going to the keypad all the time). The point is, just because you know you need them for your programming, doesn't mean you might not try without, and see if the workarounds work for you.
I mean, I've already got my Clueboard, I just need to assemble it, so that ship has sailed. I don't doubt that I could adapt to being without the arrows and extra keys, but it's a matter of not wanting to go through that adaptation process, you know? I also think I just like 65% better than 60%, aesthetically speaking.
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I mean, I've already got my Clueboard, I just need to assemble it, so that ship has sailed. I don't doubt that I could adapt to being without the arrows and extra keys, but it's a matter of not wanting to go through that adaptation process, you know? I also think I just like 65% better than 60%, aesthetically speaking.
That's cool. Didn't know you already had the Clueboard and just wanted to give you the heads up from another programmer. Hope you're happy with your clueboard!
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I like arrow keys, so I'm building a Clueboard. I also like the insert/delete keys without going for a full TKL.
What do you use Insert/Delete keys for?
It's going to be my board for work, I'm a programmer. So that.
I started with a 60% (programmer too), just because I figured that unless I get rid of them, I won't know if I really need them. So far, I don't. One extra layer gives me everything I need, and I don't even have to move my hands anymore to do it (used to use brief, which had me going to the keypad all the time). The point is, just because you know you need them for your programming, doesn't mean you might not try without, and see if the workarounds work for you.
Isn't it troublesome that you have to access some of the functions by pressing fn keys?
That's the only reason I'm not getting a 60%...
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I mean, I've already got my Clueboard, I just need to assemble it, so that ship has sailed. I don't doubt that I could adapt to being without the arrows and extra keys, but it's a matter of not wanting to go through that adaptation process, you know? I also think I just like 65% better than 60%, aesthetically speaking.
That's cool. Didn't know you already had the Clueboard and just wanted to give you the heads up from another programmer. Hope you're happy with your clueboard!
I'm looking forward to finishing it up!
But I do totally agree with your overall sentiment. 60 or 65 really comes down to how much effort you want to put in "learning" a new layout (i.e. using the board) and if you prefer how one looks over the other. I don't think I've ever seen someone say they're incapable of using a keyboard when they switch to 60% or something, some people just really underestimate their ability to pick up something new like that so they never take the plunge.
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I like arrow keys, so I'm building a Clueboard. I also like the insert/delete keys without going for a full TKL.
What do you use Insert/Delete keys for?
It's going to be my board for work, I'm a programmer. So that.
I started with a 60% (programmer too), just because I figured that unless I get rid of them, I won't know if I really need them. So far, I don't. One extra layer gives me everything I need, and I don't even have to move my hands anymore to do it (used to use brief, which had me going to the keypad all the time). The point is, just because you know you need them for your programming, doesn't mean you might not try without, and see if the workarounds work for you.
Isn't it troublesome that you have to access some of the functions by pressing fn keys?
That's the only reason I'm not getting a 60%...
No, actually. I thought I might have to program the other layers, but the first fn layer for the Pok3r is actually very functional. And the function key is right next to the alt, so it's only really remembering where it is, and to actually press it. The only other thing I've been thinking of doing is replacing the caps lock with the win key, and then the win key with a fn key on that side. But, I'm actually getting very used to hitting the fn key on the right, so I might not even do that.
It's so good, in fact, and I'm enjoying it so much, that I'm actually starting to go look at going down instead of up (for my writing keyboard). I'd tried the magicforce 68 also, thinking that I might want to move up. But I've found that I've gotten used to not moving my hands- so much so that the magicforce was uncomfortable at this point.
The big thing is to try, not necessarily that it's going to work for you. Unfortunately, you can't do that without investing money, so that's the reason that a lot of people never give it a go. I got a Pok3r for home and work- so it was about $300 to try, which is admittedly not insignificant. But after doing it, I'm glad I did.
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No, actually. I thought I might have to program the other layers, but the first fn layer for the Pok3r is actually very functional. And the function key is right next to the alt, so it's only really remembering where it is, and to actually press it. The only other thing I've been thinking of doing is replacing the caps lock with the win key, and then the win key with a fn key on that side. But, I'm actually getting very used to hitting the fn key on the right, so I might not even do that.
It's so good, in fact, and I'm enjoying it so much, that I'm actually starting to go look at going down instead of up (for my writing keyboard). I'd tried the magicforce 68 also, thinking that I might want to move up. But I've found that I've gotten used to not moving my hands- so much so that the magicforce was uncomfortable at this point.
The big thing is to try, not necessarily that it's going to work for you. Unfortunately, you can't do that without investing money, so that's the reason that a lot of people never give it a go. I got a Pok3r for home and work- so it was about $300 to try, which is admittedly not insignificant. But after doing it, I'm glad I did.
Really nice to read something like this, I myself had been reluctant to try 60% and stayed with TKL for the longest time. Now that I have finally switched, I don't even understand what I was waiting for. Little did I know that arrows on the home row are actually better than those far over on the right.
The Pok3r layout mostly makes sense, though I prefer full programmability. Do you press FN with your pinky? For me that seems slightly uncomfortable and would make more sense in my eyes if the arrow layer were moved one or two keys two the right. Then I could hit FN with my thumb in the same way that I hit ALT. But I guess it works well either way.
As for the Caps/Win key, why don't you leave the Winkey as is and make Capslock a second FN key? Then you would have one right in your home row :)
I do this and also add WASD for a second arrow layer. Very comfortable with one hand, and FN+Space becomes Enter so it's easy to select something from a GUI menu.
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Wait .. what?! 65% :eek: :p
.. i .. need .. more ... keyboards :-\
Where can I buy one?
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No, actually. I thought I might have to program the other layers, but the first fn layer for the Pok3r is actually very functional. And the function key is right next to the alt, so it's only really remembering where it is, and to actually press it. The only other thing I've been thinking of doing is replacing the caps lock with the win key, and then the win key with a fn key on that side. But, I'm actually getting very used to hitting the fn key on the right, so I might not even do that.
It's so good, in fact, and I'm enjoying it so much, that I'm actually starting to go look at going down instead of up (for my writing keyboard). I'd tried the magicforce 68 also, thinking that I might want to move up. But I've found that I've gotten used to not moving my hands- so much so that the magicforce was uncomfortable at this point.
The big thing is to try, not necessarily that it's going to work for you. Unfortunately, you can't do that without investing money, so that's the reason that a lot of people never give it a go. I got a Pok3r for home and work- so it was about $300 to try, which is admittedly not insignificant. But after doing it, I'm glad I did.
Really nice to read something like this, I myself had been reluctant to try 60% and stayed with TKL for the longest time. Now that I have finally switched, I don't even understand what I was waiting for. Little did I know that arrows on the home row are actually better than those far over on the right.
The Pok3r layout mostly makes sense, though I prefer full programmability. Do you press FN with your pinky? For me that seems slightly uncomfortable and would make more sense in my eyes if the arrow layer were moved one or two keys two the right. Then I could hit FN with my thumb in the same way that I hit ALT. But I guess it works well either way.
As for the Caps/Win key, why don't you leave the Winkey as is and make Capslock a second FN key? Then you would have one right in your home row :)
I do this and also add WASD for a second arrow layer. Very comfortable with one hand, and FN+Space becomes Enter so it's easy to select something from a GUI menu.
The Pok3r is fully programmable- I just haven't needed to program it. I actually use my right thumb for the function key. It sounds strange, but it works. Just like I use it for the alt, I just move it over one more to hit the fn.
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To me the question is more about whether you use the bottom right corner of your keyboard. I never did so I turned that to permanent arrow keys on my 60%. Yeah, keycaps will be wrong but I actually like the slightly bigger keys. With a 65% you get "real" arrow keys but availability of boards and cases is much worse.
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To me the question is more about whether you use the bottom right corner of your keyboard. I never did so I turned that to permanent arrow keys on my 60%. Yeah, keycaps will be wrong but I actually like the slightly bigger keys. With a 65% you get "real" arrow keys but availability of boards and cases is much worse.
This is true, I rarely use right Win, right CTRL or the context menu key.
But now I'm trying to learn to type properly after using exclusively the left Shift key for 15+ years... So that means I'm finally picking up using the right Shift.
I've also found the arrows on WASD and IJKL to me more comfortable for me than dedicated ones, which is nice :D
But I still like having the option of turning the right hand arrow cluster on using FN+RALT as a toggle.
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I'm wondering if that does both of the layout differ from each other much?
I'm thinking whether the 60% with HHKB layout suits me well or the 65% which has the arrow keys is better?
What's your opinion?
Dedicated arrow keys are better, the only downside to HHKB its dedicated arrow keys needs to be held with FN (held by your right pinky)
Personally i hate it, you might ask me why?
Because i am left handed and my right pink is too weak lol
You get use to it
I have HHKB but with modified controller (Hasu), issue solved with another dedicated arrow clusters (on WASD), toggle FN on left CMD/GUI, right under WASD which i find quite praticable
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At first I missed the arrow keys, but 60% that has the arrow keys under a function layer on the home row is great. I used to have to look down move my hand to the arrow keys or to guide my hand back to the home row. Some boards even allow you to turn your win-alt-ctrl-shift cluster into dedicated arrows, if you are willing to give up your right shift. I erroneously use almost the L shift exclusively.
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It's weird seeing someone with a username similar to mine, that doesn't happen very often xD .