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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: overdriver on Fri, 18 December 2009, 12:39:42

Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Fri, 18 December 2009, 12:39:42: I am looking for a Keyboard with orange Alps switch.. or any alternative Alps switch with similar clicky & tactile feedback.
I love my old and still working 100% Apple IIc keyboard with orange Alps switch. It gives me one of the best balanced clicky feed back.

according to Alps Wiki here there is not much hope on PC:

Orange: tactile (Apple Keyboard M0116/M0115/GS II keyboard)

The problem is I don't think I have much experience on other Alps switch.. so please, give me some info/advice for getting a keyboard with 'orange alps like' switch for PC.

..I could try to buy above apple keyboard with ADB-to USB converter but it doesn't have Function keys, etc.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 18 December 2009, 12:42:14: Didn't the original AEK have orange switches?
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Fri, 18 December 2009, 12:50:18: Quote from: ch_123;143496
Didn't the original AEK have orange switches?

that's fast! yeah I just googled it and it seems it has orange switches according to Geekhack wiki.

Thanks, it's super fast :smile:
I guess its the time to shop for $50ish Griffin imate and AEK?
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Fri, 18 December 2009, 12:59:01: hmm.. very strange. I am little bit confused by this video:

video for M0116 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm3Syrh-MWI&feature=PlayList&p=261F7A946BD5253F&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=13)

I know that it is not M0115 but both models are supposed to have same orange switch. my Apple IIc Alps has both clicky and tactile but this orange switch in this video doesn't have any clicky sound at all..!

according to Wiki it doesn't. hmm does this means Apple IIc keyboard had some special order?
ok.. my goal is to have Alps switch with clicky and tactile so I should go for different keyboard. It is so complicated whenever I see some Alps switch..
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 18 December 2009, 13:01:56: I have a funny habit of logging onto Geekhack just after people ask questions like these =P

Apple never used clicky switches in their keyboards. Bare in mind that we have a very specific definition of clicky around here - i.e. a switch that deliberately makes a noise upon actuation. Black (and related such as Orange) Alps are often thought to be clicky because of the racket they make when you bottom out on them. In fact, it's possibly to actuate them without making any noise (try pressing the switch very slowly and you'll see)

Out of curiosity, have you ever tried a Dell AT101W? As far as I know, the switches it uses are similar enough to the Orange Alps. You can often find NIB ones on eBay for about $5-10
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Fri, 18 December 2009, 13:08:02: yes, I know the difference between click and bottoming-out sound.
I am sure that Apple never used clicky switch AFTER Apple IIgs. but on my Apple IIc it has alps switch that is clicky and tactile.
Its switch deliberately makes a noise upon actuation even without keycap.

only thing I am not sure is the slider color: to me it looks like orange... but who know it could be dark yellow.

anyway.. any recommendation for a alps keyboard with click and tactile ?
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Fri, 18 December 2009, 13:13:17: Quote from: ch_123;143501
Out of curiosity, have you ever tried a Dell AT101W? As far as I know, the switches it uses are similar enough to the Orange Alps. You can often find NIB ones on eBay for about $5-10

yes, as you can see my sig I already own it.. lol thanks to geekhack. I never knew this exist before.
how's it ? I don't like too much. I like it because it was very cheap $15 NIB with shipping.. but It is not that smooth and requires higher pressure to acuate, and it does not have clicky sound.. only bottoming out.

No, i don't think it is similar to orange or any alps switch with tactile and click.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 18 December 2009, 13:16:13: Interesting. The Alps guide in the Wiki is a bit weird because it doesn't take different pressure requirements into account. Your best bet would be to try and find a White Alps switch. Blues Alps are good too, but I've been reliably informed that they cost a lot for a good board.

If you go to the eBay section, there's a thread on Northgates (other than the one about the guy who thought his was worth $400...)
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Fri, 18 December 2009, 13:17:23: thanks for advice.
so, I should look for Northgate or omnikey.. got it
any other keyboard has white Alps switch?
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 18 December 2009, 13:19:41: The FK-2001 has either, depending on the variant, complicated Whites, complicated Blues or fake Whites. As far as I know, if you avoid models with Windows keys, you're safe, although there might be some Windows-keys less versions that have the fakes.

The Filco Zero has Fukka switches, which are simplified Alps. They're a compromise between the complicated and the fakes. However, if you are familiar with the complicated switches, you may not like the simplified switches.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Fri, 18 December 2009, 13:28:19: lol this is why Alps are so complicated. 1. real complicated 2. simplified 3. simplified fake. sigh.. I wish I can try before I buy.
Thanks for help
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 18 December 2009, 13:31:53: So many variants, and yet you can count on one hand the amount that are worthwhile... Alps fans are few and far between around here these days. I have a Blue board on the way to me, which I intend to modify with dampeners. I think it's Alps last chance to impress me =P
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: didjamatic on Fri, 18 December 2009, 14:42:55: I have an Apple Extended Keyboard M0115 with Orange alps sitting right here, I also have white alps boards. PM me if you're interested.

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_-sQ6TN93LvU/SyvpKV8PL7I/AAAAAAAAAPM/0VRjgnGxe1g/s800/10%20130.jpg)
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: microsoft windows on Fri, 18 December 2009, 17:20:31: Quote from: ch_123;143511
Interesting. The Alps guide in the Wiki is a bit weird because it doesn't take different pressure requirements into account. Your best bet would be to try and find a White Alps switch. Blues Alps are good too, but I've been reliably informed that they cost a lot for a good board.

If you go to the eBay section, there's a thread on Northgates (other than the one about the guy who thought his was worth $400...)

I'm sorry to tell you but the Northgates ended. I was out-bid.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: SCTony on Sun, 20 December 2009, 19:10:17: I am having difficulty uploading, but here is a small pic of Black/Orange comparison.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: microsoft windows on Sun, 20 December 2009, 19:11:38: They sure look different on the inside. How are they linear though? They look a lot like the old complicated ALPS.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: SCTony on Sun, 20 December 2009, 19:21:19: They are both the older 'complicated' style. The click leaf is what provides the tactile bump, as I understand it. The springs are very different- longer, less coils/inch, and an extra wrap at the ends in the orange switches.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: SCTony on Sun, 20 December 2009, 19:23:51: Yes, I don't know where the problem is but I haven't been able to upload anything but this pic. Maybe my computer/ ISP/ i dunno. Keeps timing out/ server reset.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: PRISONER 24601 on Mon, 21 December 2009, 09:52:06: I believe my ADK has oranges. See here:

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=6580&stc=1&d=1261410634)

They're different looking and feeling than the pinks on my M0115. I think I like them a bit better.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 21 December 2009, 10:04:33: Quote from: ripster;143526
It's the fake vs real part that makes it confusing.

That's the most simple bit of them all. Some were made by Alps or properly licensed to be made by other companies. Some were cheap knockoffs made in China. The former are better than the latter.

Now, the simplified vs. real thing is where it gets messy.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: PRISONER 24601 on Mon, 21 December 2009, 10:31:01: ALPS are like snowflakes.
Then again, they're also like onions.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Wed, 23 December 2009, 03:21:54: I just opened up my old Apple IIc again to check its slider color.
you know what..

it is a Yellow slider: and it has audible click & tactile.

yeah.. call me color blind.. but I think this is yellow. according to Wiki it is classified as a linear switch, but nope, it has click and tactile bump.

It is possible that this switches are not a same production line of the rest of Alps switch because I don't see any Alps logo on each key. then, how do I know it is made by Alps ? The PCB board itself is marked as 'Alps' and it is well documented that Apple ordered its keyboard from Alps for the later version of Apple IIc.
If anyone insist then I can take a picture or I can borrow from internet. So, it should be a real complicated Alps without logo.. hmm does this make any sense?! It might be special order from Apple.. who knows.

I am not sure how to measure of the pressure of this key switch but i am guessing it is close to 70g comparing to my IBM M BS.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: ricercar on Wed, 23 December 2009, 03:24:42: You can stack US nickel coins on one key and tell us how many it takes to press it. Ripster will tell you how many grams it is.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Wed, 23 December 2009, 03:57:21: Quote from: ricercar;144680
You can stack US nickel coins on one key and tell us how many it takes to press it. Ripster will tell you how many grams it is.

just stacked 15 dimes to initiate the press. and my M took same weight to be pressed.
*EDIT* ^^^ Nickels.. ooops :)

5g x 15 = 75g yup.. it's between 14 and 15 dimes for sure. so it's most likely ~70g ish
*EDIT* ^^^ Nickels .. doh! sorry i must be really tired yesterday
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: ak_nala on Wed, 23 December 2009, 06:49:15: A dime is lighter than a nickel.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: alpslover on Wed, 23 December 2009, 10:00:36: Quote from: overdriver;144678
The PCB board itself is marked as 'Alps' and it is well documented that Apple ordered its keyboard from Alps for the later version of Apple IIc.
If anyone insist then I can take a picture or I can borrow from internet.

take a picture if you don't mind. i also remember the iic's keyboard as being clicky and tactile, and a lot better than many other computer keyboards from that era.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Wed, 23 December 2009, 11:23:26: hmm is that yellow? damn.. I am really color blind?

here is my own crappy video over Youtube. my first ever video so please don't laugh lol

First Part (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sli5-KPtzKc)

Second Part (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TbXurTk2KM)

Third part (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeTnGB3VxBU)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m246/overdriver99/Keyboard/apple2c1.jpg)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m246/overdriver99/Keyboard/apple2c2.jpg)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m246/overdriver99/Keyboard/apple2c3.jpg)

yeah.. please, tell me what I have :)
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Wed, 23 December 2009, 11:51:32: Quote from: ripster;144771
Well, at the risk of posting the same comment 300 times you really will never know with ALPS unless you open the switch (or another Apple IIc owner with that specific model number and rev of keyboard does).

My bet is you have an ALPS clone of undetermined type.

model # is A2S4100.

It maybe Alps clone but its keyboard PCB is marked with 'Alps' logo. Is there any keyboard that uses Alps clones with real Alps PCB ?

I would not open this switch since I know there is no spare switch if something goes wrong.. I never opened Alps before ;P
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: alpslover on Wed, 23 December 2009, 12:11:00: Quote from: overdriver;144774
Is there any keyboard that uses Alps clones with real Alps PCB ?

i've never seen one.

your switches are probably the same ones found on this apple keyboard:

http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/apple_m0116.html (http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/apple_m0116.html)
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 23 December 2009, 12:27:20: No, if it says Alps on the board, you can take it that it has genuine ones.

Oh, and the lack of Alps logo doesn't automatically mean that it's not real. Take genuine Blues for example.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Wed, 23 December 2009, 12:53:58: Thanks for the link of Sandy's site. It confirms that those orange switches doesn't have Alps logo either.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Wed, 23 December 2009, 13:52:33: Quote from: ripster;144802
That's because they are too ashamed to reveal their true nature.

So anybody willing to say if the Orange Ones feel different from the Black Complicated ALPS like on a Dell AT101W?

Anybody?

lol I love your sense of humor always :) I saw hundreds of your funny comments and I laugh every single time when I saw yours :)

OT but I may just buy a blue cherry and call it a day. It's too complicated to figure out which alps is good for me. but a Blue cherry is well known for the one of the best switch that is still on its production.. hmm so why not. I already tried the Brown one I love it :)
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: microsoft windows on Wed, 23 December 2009, 13:56:29: If you want guaranteed complicated, a Northgate's your best bet.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: microsoft windows on Wed, 23 December 2009, 14:04:02: I never really used the old Apples (I'm sure you guys can already tell from my name), but I have heard people talk about clicky switches in them before. All I really do know about Apple is they made some of the lowest quality keyboard products starting in the late 1990's.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Wed, 23 December 2009, 14:30:25: Quote from: ripster;144821
But if this thread dies we will NEVER get to the bottom of these mysterious ALPS.

Are yours Yellow or Orange?

Anybody else seen Clicky ALPS on an Apple?

It's Yellow for sure. It's not orange at all. I've seen many other Apple keyboards but this maybe only clicky keyboard among Apple ones. All other Alps switch on Apple keyboards( M0116/M0115/M3501)were either black or orange,.. or pink alps which is tactile but not clicky.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Wed, 23 December 2009, 15:19:27: Quote from: ripster;144843
Now I know you are hesitant to open up the switch (not even ScrollLock???) but let me make my case:

1. MORAL - Think of Steve Jobs? What would he do? OK, I'll think of a better example.....
2. SCIENTIFIC - Where would we be if nobody opened up a picture and posted it in the Wiki? You'd be a discoverer like Sir Burton and the source of the Nile!
3. LEGAL - Buried in the Geekhack registration agreement I think it sez:

4. TESTOSTERONE - I doubledogdareya!

lol.. ok ripster. Since I got so much help from you and geekhack community I owe you guys something. I will post the pic of its assembly as much as possible within 10 min .. but don't expect much from total novice like me.. ok? :)
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Wed, 23 December 2009, 15:49:17: ok I can't take last one out.. so this is the best I can do.
now can you tell me how to assemble ?
I saw the Alps Wiki video how to aseemble but I don't have complete part to do it.. any pic ?

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m246/overdriver99/DSC00417.jpg)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m246/overdriver99/DSC00418.jpg)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m246/overdriver99/DSC00420.jpg)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m246/overdriver99/DSC00425.jpg)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m246/overdriver99/DSC00428.jpg)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m246/overdriver99/DSC00429.jpg)
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 23 December 2009, 15:54:37: I assume that the top part of the switch housing, it says Alps on one of the sides? I'm going to refer to that side as the bottom of the switch.

First off, insert the plastic slider. One of the sides should have a semicircular notch at the bottom, make sure that side faces downwards towards the bottom, not upwards. Insert the metal leaf into the space at the bottom of the switch. Insert the spring into the notch in the bottom of the slider. Now, you need to reinsert the whole thing slowly. It helps if you hold the board at a downwards angle as you do it. Make sure you insert it such that the Alps logo is the right way up.

I've probably explained that bad, so ask if you have any trouble with any of the steps in particular.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Wed, 23 December 2009, 16:10:59: omg.. click is gone for that particular switch :(
something went wrong.. arg
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 23 December 2009, 17:35:55: Quote from: overdriver;144872
omg.. click is gone for that particular switch :(
something went wrong.. arg

Pull it out and start again.

Webwit - Complicated White vs Complicated Blue, what's the difference if any?
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 23 December 2009, 17:41:04: I thought the pic of Alps in your post above was made by yourself. Might send a PM to the Alps Master himself.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Wed, 23 December 2009, 17:48:20: Quote from: ch_123;144895
Pull it out and start again.

arg.. It's no use. I tried more than 5 times already. It looks like the leaf has been bent somehow.. so it does not click anymore :mmph:

I just put it back. It works without click sound.. damn it :mad:

..anyone has a spare leaf for complicated Alps switch(from white if possible) ?
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: SCTony on Wed, 23 December 2009, 17:51:25: I much prefer the feel of the M0116 (used) orange switches to the NIB Dell AT101W. The Dell black switches have that 'friction' feeling and seem to require more force to initiate the key movement. There is a difference in the springs and a minor difference in the housing-

Oh- I figured out why I was having difficulty uploading. My cable modem was failing (slowly) and has been replaced.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 23 December 2009, 17:56:17: Quote from: overdriver;144901
arg.. It's no use. I tried more than 5 times already. It looks like the leaf has been bent somehow.. so it does not click anymore :mmph:

I just put it back. It works without click sound.. damn it :mad:

..anyone has a spare leaf for complicated Alps switch(from white if possible) ?

You can fix the leaf by bending it back into shape. There was a thread on this around here somewhere made by Microsoft Windows... Where is he when you actually need him... >.<
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Thu, 24 December 2009, 01:11:18: Thank you so much, ripster. you are my angel :)
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: msiegel on Thu, 24 December 2009, 01:28:53: Quote from: ripster;144968
Sounds Clicky to me!

IIc switch looks familiar... :)

Replacement Keyboard Switches for Apple IIe & IIc Computers (http://blujay.com/?page=ad&adid=3138253&cat=9010500)

(http://www.blujay.com/1/416/3138253_s1_i1.jpg)
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: ricercar on Thu, 24 December 2009, 02:36:30: (http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=6624&stc=1&d=1261641122)

Hey, I recognize that switch.

$0.55 each at halted.com with white plunger, no Cherry logo. Not tactile, firmer than Cherry-logo browns, more like the Cherry-logo blacks on my popo keyboard, far firmer than the no-logo blacks from my Kishy keyboard (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=7848&).
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: SCTony on Thu, 24 December 2009, 09:16:44: As for reassembling the switches, what I do is insert the slider into the top housing, insert the click-leaf, and then bottom out the slider to hold the click leaf in place. I put the spring in the [ bottom ] housing using the tiniest bit of grease on the spring to hold it in place (Welly's trick). Then align the housings and reassemble. The notch on the bottom of the slider faces the electrical contacts- there is a slight bevel on the bottom edge of the notched side.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: sandy55 on Thu, 24 December 2009, 10:03:54: Quote from: overdriver;144864
Show Image
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m246/overdriver99/DSC00417.jpg)

**snipped other pics**

Real genuine Alps with gray switching assy it is.

Not sure about the color of a stem with those pics if it is orange or yellow or mixture of yellow and orange
But anyway it's new to me. Didn't know there is such a color of a stem for clicky Alps.
I ( and Ripster ) need another picture of a click leaf from different angel if it has a protrusion like shown in Ripster's picture.

One thing I can say is that click ( tactile ) leaf without a protrusion can make a clicking sound if it doesn't have stabs at both side of a leaf and L shaped leg at the bottom.
If you examine US patent paper #4642433 of alps audible switch you may notice there is no protrusion on a click leaf of early Alps clicking switch.
#4642433 itself is for the protrusion which generates distinct clicking sound.
And actually, this can be confirmed if you bend side stabs of a leaf and lower L shaped portion more sharply so that a leaf can move inside
a slit of orange/pink and other so called tactile Alps switches.
Also some of tactile switches occasionally make very faint ( yes, very faint ) clicking sound. Some people like that faint click even though a board makes random notes.

Quote from: SCTony;144902
There is a difference in the springs and a minor difference in the housing-

I call them "slits". these can be found on genuine alps made before '93.
Link (http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/temp/temp.html#ALPS)
A sign for a good Alps, down side of slits is that you may break a housing when you pull off a key cap if a cap is tightly fitted to a stem.

Hey, my Majestouch tenless Blue went mad now. Repeating *
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Thu, 24 December 2009, 11:26:40: glad to see Sandy here in this thread.
I didn't take detail pic of its leaf but
a click ( tactile ) leaf has a protrusion and it is exactly same shape as ripster showed me. that's why I didn't take too much picture of it and asked for a leaf from white alps.
I would know for sure once I get it from ripster but my guess is that it will be 100% same dimension & shape.

btw, you don't want me to disassemble another one to be make sure.. please, don't.. one screw up is enough for me now :)
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Thu, 24 December 2009, 11:47:13: Quote from: ripster;145035

Too bad you'd have to buy an entire Apple IIc just to get a switch.
Even a broken one (http://cgi.ebay.com/Apple-IIC-Computer-Parts-or-Repair_W0QQitemZ370305390034QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5637ebd5d2) goes for $70 here
Quote

not all Apple IIc has Alps switches like mine. only later model and certain serial number(I guess it's later too) has Alps. Many Apple IIc has just crappy non-alps keyboard.
The difference is hugh. The most of Alps one does not fail at all for last 20 years of abuse.. but the most of other no name crappy keyboard on Apple IIc fails. Many collectors want Alps keyboard one but it is rare.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Thu, 24 December 2009, 12:32:19: Quote from: ripster;145059
Thanks for pointing out the rare part. I was tempted to buy that broken Apple IIc for $70.

FYI, If you see the pic of Apple IIc bottom that has full label sticker like this:
and this is old style and 100% it does NOT have Alps

(http://myoldmac.net/Sellpicts/Apple-IIc-Back.jpg)

If the bottom label has only serial barcode and rest of them are embossed then it may have Alps(I would say 80% but there is still small chance not to be alps)

(http://www.blujay.com/1/419/3147234_s1_i3.jpg)

to be 100% you need to ask the seller to remove key cap ;)
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 24 December 2009, 12:40:47: jumping in without reading all of the posts but I have in AEK I got off of a customer site. Its pretty dirty, but I popped the key and the slider looks orange. The click leaf looks very similar to what I have in the black alps but the spring isn't as tightly wound.

I swapped the pause key out on the filco with the spring and click leaf. Maybe I need to do some more keys but it doesn't feel any different then the black alp.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 24 December 2009, 12:57:56: your right, I need to do more keys...tedious, but I am bored, brb
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 24 December 2009, 13:51:02: yes,everything. I did the arrow keys, page up/down, home/end and the tab key.

I need to play with it but so far if there is a difference it is subtle. The biggest difference that I can see is that the springs are different. The AEK have longer springs versus the black alps. But I don't feel anything obvious.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 24 December 2009, 14:09:19: Quote from: ripster;145074
I'm back. I know why. It's because you live in Florida. ALPS Oranges prefer warmer climates.

The Rare Swiss Orange
Show Image
(http://www.florida-fl.net/images/oranges.jpg)

you have quite the imagination. but yes, it is warmer here. its 77 degrees and we have the windows open. there is a nice breeze blowing through the house.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: microsoft windows on Thu, 24 December 2009, 14:21:51: You're making me hate New England winters even more. I thought today was warmer than usual because I didn't freeze my face and hands off when I went outside with a heavy coat and a hat.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 24 December 2009, 14:37:43: : O its nice here now, come here in August. Not so nice then.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: microsoft windows on Thu, 24 December 2009, 14:50:24: Here in New England, people go crazy when it goes up to 90 degrees. They'd all melt if they went to Florida in the summer.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 24 December 2009, 14:53:26: yeah, florida can be pretty nasty in the summer time. but the winters are nice.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 24 December 2009, 16:23:13: Quote from: ripster;145071
Are you swapping upper housing, springs, sliders AND leaf?

I think the leafs and sliders (other than color) are the same, but the upper housing and springs are not.

Among my ALPS keyboards the White Clicky Complicated ALPS are on the left. The Black Complicated ALPS and White Dampened Complicated ALPS (Apple AEK2 and SGI Granite) are the type on the right.

Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=6644&d=1261684234)

The slider from my Cream Alps fits in my Blue Alps switch... The Alps plot thickens...

Quote
Here in New England, people go crazy when it goes up to 90 degrees. They'd all melt if they went to Florida in the summer.

Here in Celsius land, we quite literally would melt if it was 90 degrees...
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: PRISONER 24601 on Thu, 24 December 2009, 16:33:36: What's with the Pink/Orange/Orangish-Pink thing? I have pinks, and I have pinkish-orange sliders, but there are also darker orange sliders that I don't have.

I think.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: sandy55 on Fri, 25 December 2009, 01:45:57: Quote from: ripster;145071
I think the leafs and sliders (other than color) are the same,

Surface treatments are different between green/blue/orange and the rest. ( according to an expert, plastic material is also different )
Shape of green stem is different from others. ( technically speaking, shape of green stem is more suitable and works efficiently when used with click or tactile leaf ). Hope you don't ask me how and why. Hard to explain in English for surface treatment and material.

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the White Clicky Complicated ALPS are on the left. The Black Complicated ALPS and White Dampened Complicated ALPS (Apple AEK2 and SGI Granite) are the type on the right.
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=6644&d=1261684234)

Upper housing of
a) later version of Clicky complicated Whites belongs to the right ( without slits).
b) earlier version of Black complicated belong to the left ( with slits ).
Blacks on AT-101W are not earlier version and belong to the right.
Two variations in Yellow and dampened Cream.
All of Green/Blue/Orange/Pink( and yellowish one of this thread ) belong to the left off course.

Seems like my hard drive died last night. may take a long time to recover whole data.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: bigpook on Fri, 25 December 2009, 11:23:26: I went ahead and changed out all of the keys except for the F keys( I will do them later).

The orange alps are a bit smoother it turns out then the black alps. I noticed it straight away. The orange is a little bit softer then the blacks, still tactile, no click.

I took some pics, will post them later.

The lower assembly seemed to be identical to me between the orange and the black. I changed everything in the upper assembly when I swapped them. Top half, spring, leaf and slider as they are different from the blacks.

Sandys plastic theory is interesting, it would be nice to verify that though.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: bigpook on Fri, 25 December 2009, 13:38:59: I think I like the black alps better...sigh.

here are some pics:

The donor board is an old AEK I got off of a customer site. They had a bunch of stuff going to the dumpster and I was able to grab this before it got chucked.

(http://ajm.no-ip.info/Filco-orange-alps/orange-002.jpg)
AEK back

(http://ajm.no-ip.info/Filco-orange-alps/orange-004.jpg)
pulled the keys to reveal the orange alps. pretty dirty but not unexpected.

(http://ajm.no-ip.info/Filco-orange-alps/orange-006.jpg)
here is the filco tenkeyless(was a white XM) with some of the orange alps in place for testing.

(http://ajm.no-ip.info/Filco-orange-alps/orange-007.jpg)
with the upper assemblys removed. the lower assemblys look the same as in the AEK.if there is a difference *aside from color* I can't see it.

(http://ajm.no-ip.info/Filco-orange-alps/orange-009.jpg)
parts is parts

(http://ajm.no-ip.info/Filco-orange-alps/orange-010.jpg)
not a good pic but this particular key was the enter key on the numpad. I ended up using it as the enter key on the filco. I think its a white alps but don't know what the black pieces are on the slider.

(http://ajm.no-ip.info/Filco-orange-alps/orange-001.jpg)
here you can see the white alps enter key on the numpad.

(http://ajm.no-ip.info/Filco-orange-alps/orange-012.jpg)
its all halloween looking now.

(http://ajm.no-ip.info/Filco-orange-alps/orange-015.jpg)
....

(http://ajm.no-ip.info/Filco-orange-alps/orange-003.jpg)
all done....

they are lighter in feel then the black alps, someone else has said smoother. I guess.
but they aren't such a radical departure then the black alps. not like it is when going to the fukka.

while I haven't tried a whole lot of alps switches, the minor change I feel between the orange and the black is interesting; if only because maybe ALPS was trying to cover the whole range of feel in small steps across the product line?
If it matters, the pic shows the board as pretty filthy, I wasn't sure what to expect when I pulled the keys. But the insides were clean, and the leaf, spring and slider looked new to me. there was no obvious wear that I could see.

I have enough black alps upper assemblys for a tenkeyless board. If anyone wants them, let me know.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: ak_nala on Fri, 25 December 2009, 21:56:11: That "white" Alps on the Enter key is a later-style Cream Alps (tactile w/ dampers) like they put on the AEK II. Very odd if it was original. Not a place you would expect a key to go bad to need replacement either. Curious. Makes me want to open up my AEK I to take a look.

The "black pieces" on the Cream slider are the much coveted dampers that help to cushion the slider when topping and bottoming out.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: sandy55 on Sat, 26 December 2009, 03:41:18: Quote from: bigpook;145231
I think I like the black alps better...sigh.

Show Image
(http://ajm.no-ip.info/Filco-orange-alps/orange-006.jpg)

here is the filco tenkeyless(was a white XM) with some of the orange alps in place for testing.

Show Image
(http://ajm.no-ip.info/Filco-orange-alps/orange-007.jpg)

with the upper assemblys removed. the lower assemblys look the same as in the AEK.if there is a difference *aside from color* I can't see it.

.** above pics are #3/4. I snipped off others **

Your Zero tenless seems like different version from those sold widely these days.
Filco once llisted *Zero with Black Alps* on their online shop.
I wondered if it has type-1 usually used in Strongman's board or complicated one seen in Dell AT-101W.

Switches of your Zero are not XM as far as I can see through your photo, Switching assemblies are same with Black Alps used in Dell AT101W.
If yours uses XM or simplified-1/2/4, lower assemblies can't accept upper cases of Alps Oranges from AEK.
Bigpook, don't you mind to post close up pics of a switching assembly of your Filco Zero tenless ?
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 26 December 2009, 06:43:37: Quote from: sandy55;145300
Your Zero tenless seems like different version from those sold widely these days.

You're right about that... He made it himself from a Dell AT101W.

I must post pics of my Blue Alps-equipped SGI AT-101 to cause further confusion.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: bigpook on Sat, 26 December 2009, 07:18:08: right, I removed the original xm's and put in NIB black alps I got out of a Dell.

the lower assemblys looked very similar to me, aside from the color. so the swap was easy to do.

typing on it now, works fine.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: sandy55 on Sat, 26 December 2009, 08:06:50: Quote from: ch_123;145305
You're right about that... He made it himself from a Dell AT101W.

Ah, I see.

Still I'm quite puzzled with *Zero with black Alps*

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I must post pics of my Blue Alps-equipped SGI AT-101 to cause further confusion.

We all live in cｈaos. Confusion will be an epitaph of Alps. One of my uses SGI AT-101 with Green slider plus click leaf as his main bard.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: bigpook on Sat, 26 December 2009, 08:13:33: why are you puzzled with *Zero with black Alps*?
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: bigpook on Sat, 26 December 2009, 08:18:03: Quote from: ak_nala;145278
That "white" Alps on the Enter key is a later-style Cream Alps (tactile w/ dampers) like they put on the AEK II. Very odd if it was original. Not a place you would expect a key to go bad to need replacement either. Curious. Makes me want to open up my AEK I to take a look.

The "black pieces" on the Cream slider are the much coveted dampers that help to cushion the slider when topping and bottoming out.

thanks for the input. its working fine for me as the enter key. I am looking at an orange slider but the sides aren't notched like the white one is.

The "black pieces" are rubber? plastic?
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: PRISONER 24601 on Sat, 26 December 2009, 15:05:08: I like the dampened creams a bit more than the oranges, but they're both better than blacks imho- also the AEK is a great keyboard.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: bigpook on Sat, 26 December 2009, 18:02:06: I am finding the orange ALPs to be lighter then the blacks. But not as light as a brown cherry.
The blacks get a bad rap here, don't know why, I think they are nice. But the oranges are nice too.
I don't think there is a switch out there that I don't like for one reason or another though so take what I say with a grain of salt.

thanks for the link ripster, I will check it out.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: bigpook on Sat, 26 December 2009, 18:06:07: interesting, the white alp switch I took out of the AEK with the rubber dampers has a different lower assembly. There are two raised feet for the rubber damper to hit on.

dang, I may need to do some soldering.... as it is, I am using it for the enter key and its working fine....wonder what I am missing?

(http://ajm.no-ip.info/Filco-orange-alps/alps_bigfoot2_a.jpg)
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: overdriver on Tue, 29 December 2009, 20:43:33: I just received the leaf of white ALPS from ripster. Thank you, Ripster!
Now, the broken switch makes clicking sound, again :)
It produces little bit high pitched clicking sound.. but it is almost same.

Here is a comparison between Yellow leaf and white leaf:
(Left is from the White ALPS and the right one is the one from Yellow ALPS)
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: bigpook on Tue, 29 December 2009, 22:10:24: The click leaf for the yellow ALPS looks like it extends more than the one for the white ALPS. Does that mean the yellow ALPS click louder?

I am playing with the fukka switch and in an effort to lighten it up I am trying out the click leafs from the black ALPS. I want to finish it tomorrow, will let you know how it works out.
Title: which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 30 December 2009, 08:00:40: Quote from: bigpook;146439
The click leaf for the yellow ALPS looks like it extends more than the one for the white ALPS. Does that mean the yellow ALPS click louder?

I am playing with the fukka switch and in an effort to lighten it up I am trying out the click leafs from the black ALPS. I want to finish it tomorrow, will let you know how it works out.

I don't think it would click louder, but it might add to the tactility and resistance the leaf presents (all other things being equal). If anything, it would just change the feel slightly.