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geekhack Community => Other Geeky Stuff => Topic started by: exitfire401 on Sat, 11 June 2016, 20:50:04

Title: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: exitfire401 on Sat, 11 June 2016, 20:50:04
...I like to call what should I do with my old PC. Wife finally agreed to upgrading, and I'm not entirely sure what I want to do with the old hardware.
Current setup:
i7 920
24GB DDR3-1866
GTX 680
750w PSU
E-ATX Gigabyte Motherboard
Custom cooling loop
NZXT Switch 810 (which is the best case I've built into (this machine has been through 3 cases))

New Setup:
i5 6600k
16GB DDR4-2666
GTX 970 mini
450w sfx PSU
mitx Gigabyte Motherboard
Closed cooling loop
Fractal Design Node 202

Current plans:
Throw the 680 in my wife's computer and put one of the old 260s from the original build into the old machine, keep it around for guests. Unfortunately, the hardware isn't energy efficient enough to turn into a media server or for any real application that has it running 24/7, so what do? (Note: I've already thought about giving away the machine, but it was my first personal rig and has a TON of sentimental value, so I will eventually be removing the CPU/MOBO/RAM and mounting it in a shadowbox at some point, but I want to try and make it useful for the foreseeable future. All hard drives from the old machine are being recycled within the household and the old machine will retain 2 150gb WDD Velociraptors and a 500GB storage drive.)
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Sat, 11 June 2016, 21:30:49
Honestly, I'd just throw the motherboard in a shadowbox, maybe with some leds, with a nice wood frame and mount it on the wall. I always think that looks pretty cool.
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: deductivemonkee on Sat, 11 June 2016, 21:41:49
I have no suggestions, but would buy the ram for my 1366 i7-950 rig.
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 11 June 2016, 21:47:33
I always struggle to think of what to do with old hardware. I would like to use it again, but a lot of the time there isn't really a lot you can do... I wanted to pass on my old system to my gf's dad, but it's like a 5 year old system and I would feel really bad dumping it off to himi...

At least I was able to give dorkvader my old card.
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: muon on Sat, 11 June 2016, 21:49:23
You could donate it :)
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: muon on Sat, 11 June 2016, 21:50:11
Not to me, sorry, that wasn't what I was trying to imply. Past couple of years or so I've always known some less-than-fortunate kid who appreciates the old tech that I'd hand down, maybe you could find something similar?
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: 1swt2gs on Sat, 11 June 2016, 22:28:04
Currently using a macbook pro retina. Looking to switch to PC master race :D

 Looking to get into building computers, custom loop, water-cooling, etc. and know absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 11 June 2016, 23:37:23
Give it to Rowdy?

His current gaming PC has a Core 2 Duo and 4GB RAM.

:p
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: SBJ on Sun, 12 June 2016, 20:52:18
Quote from: rowdy on Sat, 11 June 2016, 23:37:23
Give it to Rowdy?

His current gaming PC has a Core 2 Duo and 4GB RAM.

:p
Oh wow sorry man :/
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 13 June 2016, 00:33:30
If that's a D0,  then you could still play it fine, outside of -competitive- gaming..

Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: exitfire401 on Mon, 13 June 2016, 22:57:08
Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 13 June 2016, 00:33:30
If that's a D0,  then you could still play it fine, outside of -competitive- gaming..

It is, and that's why I was debating keeping it connected up for a while as a spare pc. I have people come over to game all the time, and I figure having it up for them to just connect peripherals to would be the best option for a while.

Quote from: rowdy on Sat, 11 June 2016, 23:37:23
Give it to Rowdy?

His current gaming PC has a Core 2 Duo and 4GB RAM.

:p

Ouch... for the amount that it would cost me to ship though, I could probably afford my new pc hahaha
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 14 June 2016, 05:54:37
Quote from: exitfire401 on Mon, 13 June 2016, 22:57:08
Quote from: rowdy on Sat, 11 June 2016, 23:37:23
Give it to Rowdy?

His current gaming PC has a Core 2 Duo and 4GB RAM.

:p

Ouch... for the amount that it would cost me to ship though, I could probably afford my new pc hahaha

With the current postage costs - yes!
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: SBJ on Tue, 14 June 2016, 05:56:48
Make a kickass F@H machine  ;D
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: Leslieann on Wed, 15 June 2016, 06:27:42
Personally, I think 430 watts is cutting it a bit close.
The GPU can pull 225watts, the CPU can pull 90 for a total of 315 watts most of which is coming from the 12v rail. You still have other things which can pull from the 12v line such as fans and drives.

That PSU can only push 360 across the 12v rail, they really hate being pushed over 80%, which you would be doing and they lose capacity as they age. If it was me, I'd be using a 550 watt psu. I'm not saying that one won't run it, but it will not be as energy efficient and the system may not last as long due to the abuse.
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 15 June 2016, 07:39:20
Quote from: exitfire401 on Mon, 13 June 2016, 22:57:08
Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 13 June 2016, 00:33:30
If that's a D0,  then you could still play it fine, outside of -competitive- gaming..

It is, and that's why I was debating keeping it connected up for a while as a spare pc. I have people come over to game all the time, and I figure having it up for them to just connect peripherals to would be the best option for a while.



What.. ? You still have lans ?  Please can I borrow your time machine to go back to 2005.. 
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: exitfire401 on Wed, 15 June 2016, 23:40:48
Quote from: Leslieann on Wed, 15 June 2016, 06:27:42
Personally, I think 430 watts is cutting it a bit close.
The GPU can pull 225watts, the CPU can pull 90 for a total of 315 watts most of which is coming from the 12v rail. You still have other things which can pull from the 12v line such as fans and drives.

That PSU can only push 360 across the 12v rail, they really hate being pushed over 80%, which you would be doing and they lose capacity as they age. If it was me, I'd be using a 550 watt psu. I'm not saying that one won't run it, but it will not be as energy efficient and the system may not last as long due to the abuse.

I completely agree...been going back and forth with myself for the last day and a half as I debate returning the 450 for the 600 for the extra overhead.
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: SBJ on Thu, 16 June 2016, 00:29:09
Quote from: tp4tissue on Wed, 15 June 2016, 07:39:20
Quote from: exitfire401 on Mon, 13 June 2016, 22:57:08
Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 13 June 2016, 00:33:30
If that's a D0,  then you could still play it fine, outside of -competitive- gaming..

It is, and that's why I was debating keeping it connected up for a while as a spare pc. I have people come over to game all the time, and I figure having it up for them to just connect peripherals to would be the best option for a while.



What.. ? You still have lans ?  Please can I borrow your time machine to go back to 2005..
Me and a m8 used to do it all the time, his GF and brother would join. It was awesome.
We stopped this year, haven't done it and probably won't any more. It makes me kinda sad. We used to sit and game together all the time.
(I'm 31 for reference.)
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: exitfire401 on Thu, 16 June 2016, 00:49:51
Quote from: StickyBlueJuice on Thu, 16 June 2016, 00:29:09
Quote from: tp4tissue on Wed, 15 June 2016, 07:39:20
Quote from: exitfire401 on Mon, 13 June 2016, 22:57:08
Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 13 June 2016, 00:33:30
If that's a D0,  then you could still play it fine, outside of -competitive- gaming..

It is, and that's why I was debating keeping it connected up for a while as a spare pc. I have people come over to game all the time, and I figure having it up for them to just connect peripherals to would be the best option for a while.


What.. ? You still have lans ?  Please can I borrow your time machine to go back to 2005..
Me and a m8 used to do it all the time, his GF and brother would join. It was awesome.
We stopped this year, haven't done it and probably won't any more. It makes me kinda sad. We used to sit and game together all the time.
(I'm 31 for reference.)

Missed TP's comment, yeah, we do. Usually one every 3 weeks or so we'll have 4-5 people over for some gaming nights
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: mrhead on Thu, 16 June 2016, 10:29:33
I was just reading this thread, and concur with Leslieann.  You need to calculate total power consumption/requirements.  Keep in mind the efficiency rating of the power supply.  Basic PSUs will provide 80% efficiency.  This means a standard 80+ 450w PSU will provide 360w MAX power.

Efficiency increases with ratings (Bronze (+2-5%) - Silver (+5-8%) - Gold (+7-10%) - Platinum (+10-12%) - Titanium (+12-14%)). 

Your CPU and graphics card (GPU) require 236w on their own.  Factor in the motherboard, hard drive(s) optical drives, RAM, cooling system, and you can see how quickly your PSU will be overwhelmed.  Nvidia recommends a 500w PSU for the GTX 970.
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 16 June 2016, 16:33:50
Quote from: mrhead on Thu, 16 June 2016, 10:29:33
I was just reading this thread, and concur with Leslieann.  You need to calculate total power consumption/requirements.  Keep in mind the efficiency rating of the power supply.  Basic PSUs will provide 80% efficiency.  This means a standard 80+ 450w PSU will provide 360w MAX power.

Efficiency increases with ratings (Bronze (+2-5%) - Silver (+5-8%) - Gold (+7-10%) - Platinum (+10-12%) - Titanium (+12-14%)). 

Your CPU and graphics card (GPU) require 236w on their own.  Factor in the motherboard, hard drive(s) optical drives, RAM, cooling system, and you can see how quickly your PSU will be overwhelmed.  Nvidia recommends a 500w PSU for the GTX 970.

what ?

Nooo....  hahahaha.. the efficiency rating means it is 80% efficient,  as in it will draw more than 450 watts ,  but it WILL PROVIDE ~450watts..

you got it reversed.. hahahahahaha

(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/embarrassed3-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862502)
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: Leslieann on Thu, 16 June 2016, 20:08:48
Quote from: mrhead on Thu, 16 June 2016, 10:29:33
I was just reading this thread, and concur with Leslieann.  You need to calculate total power consumption/requirements.  Keep in mind the efficiency rating of the power supply.  Basic PSUs will provide 80% efficiency.  This means a standard 80+ 450w PSU will provide 360w MAX power.
As Tp4tissue said, you have that backwards but also, you never should base it on total power because you cant. I realize it's how it's done, but it's actually a stupid way of rating power supplies.

This isn't directed solely at you, just more of a general guideline for power supplies.


While the PSU is rated for 450 watts, it can't be split however you want, you have x amount for each voltage. It gets even more tricky when you have multiple 12v rails, in which case you have to make sure you have enough for each rail.  And you need to pay attention to the rails on cheaper models especially, since many cheap Chinese models will short you on the 12volt rail and put a ton of power on the 5volt. I saw one psu that had almost as many watts for 5volt as it did for 12volt. It was silly.

Another consideration, but not so much in this case, is the rating itself, MANY cheaper power supplies are over-rated by as much as 30% or more. I call it Chinese math, since they seem to have their own way of rating things. 

On top of that, as they age, they lose capacity, it's rumored to be as much as 15-20% the first year, 10% the second and 5% the third, some are better, some are worse. 

And, ideally, you try to never exceed 80%, this keeps the fans/heatsinks from being pushed too hard and wearing out or making noise and you always want a bit extra. You never know what direction things will go, for example, today we have USB 3.1 on the horizon and it has the potential to consume quite a bit of power or maybe you decide to add a few extra drives. $20 now can save you from having to spend another $100 next year because you needed more power.

There's a reason some call it a black art, and why many people just recommend going overkill.

After doing the math over and over again, I just follow a simple formula. If it's a:
Simple system (no video card) I'll use a good 400-450 watt
Video card with no connector 450-500
single power connector on the video card, 500-550
dual connectors, 650-750
Dual video cards, 750-850

Is this overkill? That depends, but on average, each are over powered by 50-100 watts or so and that is by design. The power supply in my desktop was 10 years old, I only replaced it because of another problem I was having, otherwise it would still be in it (it's in my file server now). How many parts in your box are 10 years old?



So what happens if you under power a system?
You might think it won't work, but that's actually not the case. Components can run on less power than specified (usually you only get a max rating) and when under powered, it can manifest itself in odd ways. I had a psu that had the 5volt side begin to fail but the system still ran stable. I found it because I was using a 6 foot extension for my usb 3.0 ports on my file server and the PSU wasn't able to provide enough amperage over the whole length, it ate about 4 usb sticks before I figured out what was happening.  This was a system I had thrown together from scraps, so it had a cheap psu in it.
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 16 June 2016, 20:36:33
Your old rig is better than what I have, except that I don't game and have a low-end video card - but I do have a high-end sound card and multiple hard drives.
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: mrhead on Fri, 01 July 2016, 12:24:33
Quote from: tp4tissue on Thu, 16 June 2016, 16:33:50
Quote from: mrhead on Thu, 16 June 2016, 10:29:33
I was just reading this thread, and concur with Leslieann.  You need to calculate total power consumption/requirements.  Keep in mind the efficiency rating of the power supply.  Basic PSUs will provide 80% efficiency.  This means a standard 80+ 450w PSU will provide 360w MAX power.

Efficiency increases with ratings (Bronze (+2-5%) - Silver (+5-8%) - Gold (+7-10%) - Platinum (+10-12%) - Titanium (+12-14%)). 

Your CPU and graphics card (GPU) require 236w on their own.  Factor in the motherboard, hard drive(s) optical drives, RAM, cooling system, and you can see how quickly your PSU will be overwhelmed.  Nvidia recommends a 500w PSU for the GTX 970.

what ?

Nooo....  hahahaha.. the efficiency rating means it is 80% efficient,  as in it will draw more than 450 watts ,  but it WILL PROVIDE ~450watts..

you got it reversed.. hahahahahaha

Show Image
(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/embarrassed3-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862502)


Doh!  I guess that's what I get for posting while at work.
Title: Re: Let's Play a Game...
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 01 July 2016, 13:28:12
Good PSUs are also rated for continuous power, not max draw.  I know my Seasonic 750w can push well above 750w, but it's rated for max efficiency at 750w continuous.