What a tragedy. We need mental screenings for all legal guns
just read about the LA pride dude also. insane. glad gf had other plans instead.
What a tragedy. We need mental screenings for all legal guns
There's an NYT reporter (@rcallimachi) who writes a lot about ISIS and has done some tweets explaining how ISIS takes credit for lone attacks like this.
What else has been said about the LA guy? How was he caught?
It's funny to see how many senators funded by the NRA are just tweeting about thoughts and prayers SMH.
He said he was waiting for a friend.
"Sources" are saying the guy called 911 and claimed allegiance to ISIS before the attack, but it's just heresay right now.
He said he was waiting for a friend."Sources" are saying the guy called 911 and claimed allegiance to ISIS before the attack, but it's just heresay right now.
Four or five news agencies are saying he called them. But her tweets are very interesting about what pledging allegiance means just before an attack. He probably wasn't affiliated with them at all, just did it as a last minute thing.
motivated by homophobia and possibly also religious fanaticism.
Indications so far are that this was motivated by homophobia and possibly also religious fanaticism.
Insha'Allah
Insha'Allah
Radical Islam is the reason this even happened. Guy played by all the rules, had license to be security guard, carry a firearm, etc. Yet he did all of this because of his beliefs. Might seem like that's "mentally ill" to some, but it's a common belief of millions of people who share his religion. It's like when a Middle Eastern country executes homosexuals, except one of the executioners came here and did it.
Might seem like that's "mentally ill" to some, but it's a common belief of millions of people who share his religion.
Insha'Allah
Radical Islam is the reason this even happened. Guy played by all the rules, had license to be security guard, carry a firearm, etc. Yet he did all of this because of his beliefs. Might seem like that's "mentally ill" to some, but it's a common belief of millions of people who share his religion. It's like when a Middle Eastern country executes homosexuals, except one of the executioners came here and did it.
This is not a common belief for millions of people. This is a common belief for a few people that like to live outside of the system. Radical extremism is not shared amongst the general population of any religion. Thinking that millions of people share this need to kill is not healthy at all.
This is not a common belief for millions of people. This is a common belief for a few people that like to live outside of the system. Radical extremism is not shared amongst the general population of any religion. Thinking that millions of people share this need to kill is not healthy at all.WRONG!
This is not a common belief for millions of people. This is a common belief for a few people that like to live outside of the system. Radical extremism is not shared amongst the general population of any religion. Thinking that millions of people share this need to kill is not healthy at all.WRONG!
"In the U.S., about eight-in-ten Muslims (81%) say that suicide bombings and similar acts targeting civilians are never justified. "
That leaves 19%.Show Image(http://puu.sh/pqwE1/f36d51b381.png)
SOURCE (http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf)
Take the blindfold of political correctness from your face, my man.
By your reasoning, millions of people think being American deserves death, too. Still not convinced it's mental illness?Insha'Allah
Radical Islam is the reason this even happened. Guy played by all the rules, had license to be security guard, carry a firearm, etc. Yet he did all of this because of his beliefs. Might seem like that's "mentally ill" to some, but it's a common belief of millions of people who share his religion. It's like when a Middle Eastern country executes homosexuals, except one of the executioners came here and did it.
This is not a common belief for millions of people. This is a common belief for a few people that like to live outside of the system. Radical extremism is not shared amongst the general population of any religion. Thinking that millions of people share this need to kill is not healthy at all.
Untrue. In Mauritania, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, United Arab Emirates, Somalia, and some of Nigeria, homosexuality is punishable by death. That's over 200 million people. If just one out of every hundred people living there believe homosexuality deserves death, then there you go: millions.
Insha'Allah
I'm open to the consideration that it's tied to a mental illness, but we've been shown time and time again that these radicals aren't exactly mentally handicapped as they repeatedly succeed in their spread of terror. Homicidal intent and action is a symptom of various mental illnesses, but not exclusively one.By your reasoning, millions of people think being American deserves death, too. Still not convinced it's mental illness?Insha'Allah
Radical Islam is the reason this even happened. Guy played by all the rules, had license to be security guard, carry a firearm, etc. Yet he did all of this because of his beliefs. Might seem like that's "mentally ill" to some, but it's a common belief of millions of people who share his religion. It's like when a Middle Eastern country executes homosexuals, except one of the executioners came here and did it.
This is not a common belief for millions of people. This is a common belief for a few people that like to live outside of the system. Radical extremism is not shared amongst the general population of any religion. Thinking that millions of people share this need to kill is not healthy at all.
Untrue. In Mauritania, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, United Arab Emirates, Somalia, and some of Nigeria, homosexuality is punishable by death. That's over 200 million people. If just one out of every hundred people living there believe homosexuality deserves death, then there you go: millions.
Personally I think it's pretty goddamn sick to want people death just because they're born differently. Born sick, commanded to be sound :/ .
Regardless, my thoughts go out to the family of the victims of this awful tragedy :/ .
This is not a common belief for millions of people. This is a common belief for a few people that like to live outside of the system. Radical extremism is not shared amongst the general population of any religion. Thinking that millions of people share this need to kill is not healthy at all.WRONG!
"In the U.S., about eight-in-ten Muslims (81%) say that suicide bombings and similar acts targeting civilians are never justified. "
That leaves 19%.Show Image(http://puu.sh/pqwE1/f36d51b381.png)
SOURCE (http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf)
Take the blindfold of political correctness from your face, my man.
Yeah mental health has been lacking in resources forever in the US.. we really need to get our act togetherNot since forever, just since the early 80's when Reagan gutted the mental health system.
Radical Islam is the reason this even happened. Guy played by all the rules, had license to be security guard, carry a firearm, etc. Yet he did all of this because of his beliefs. Might seem like that's "mentally ill" to some, but it's a common belief of millions of people who share his religion. It's like when a Middle Eastern country executes homosexuals, except one of the executioners came here and did it.
This is not a common belief for millions of people. This is a common belief for a few people that like to live outside of the system. Radical extremism is not shared amongst the general population of any religion. Thinking that millions of people share this need to kill is not healthy at all.
Yeah mental health has been lacking in resources forever in the US.. we really need to get our act togetherNot since forever, just since the early 80's when Reagan gutted the mental health system.Radical Islam is the reason this even happened. Guy played by all the rules, had license to be security guard, carry a firearm, etc. Yet he did all of this because of his beliefs. Might seem like that's "mentally ill" to some, but it's a common belief of millions of people who share his religion. It's like when a Middle Eastern country executes homosexuals, except one of the executioners came here and did it.
This is not a common belief for millions of people. This is a common belief for a few people that like to live outside of the system. Radical extremism is not shared amongst the general population of any religion. Thinking that millions of people share this need to kill is not healthy at all.
It's not just Islam or mental illness, it comes from religion, plain and simple. Muslim, Mormons, Christians and Catholics. They may not want to kill (though some certainly want them dead), but most of the hatred of the LGBT community comes directly from these religious groups and their teachings. They preach love, but teach hate.
This country treats LGBT people like sh*t, especially small town bible belt. If you aren't a minority, you have no idea the crap that goes on on a day to day basis in this country.
I understand you're kind of playing devil's advocate here, but it's frankly in particularly bad taste. I think it's culturally flawed to acknowledge this as an act of any kind of meaningfulness. The sooner we banish intolerant, senseless violence of this nature from the world, the better.I'm open to the consideration that it's tied to a mental illness, but we've been shown time and time again that these radicals aren't exactly mentally handicapped as they repeatedly succeed in their spread of terror. Homicidal intent and action is a symptom of various mental illnesses, but not exclusively one.By your reasoning, millions of people think being American deserves death, too. Still not convinced it's mental illness?Insha'Allah
Radical Islam is the reason this even happened. Guy played by all the rules, had license to be security guard, carry a firearm, etc. Yet he did all of this because of his beliefs. Might seem like that's "mentally ill" to some, but it's a common belief of millions of people who share his religion. It's like when a Middle Eastern country executes homosexuals, except one of the executioners came here and did it.
This is not a common belief for millions of people. This is a common belief for a few people that like to live outside of the system. Radical extremism is not shared amongst the general population of any religion. Thinking that millions of people share this need to kill is not healthy at all.
Untrue. In Mauritania, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, United Arab Emirates, Somalia, and some of Nigeria, homosexuality is punishable by death. That's over 200 million people. If just one out of every hundred people living there believe homosexuality deserves death, then there you go: millions.
Personally I think it's pretty goddamn sick to want people death just because they're born differently. Born sick, commanded to be sound :/ .
Regardless, my thoughts go out to the family of the victims of this awful tragedy :/ .
Not since forever, just since the early 80's when Reagan gutted the mental health system.
* * * * *
It's not just Islam or mental illness, it comes from religion, plain and simple.
It's not just Islam or mental illness, it comes from religion, plain and simple. Muslim, Mormons, Christians and Catholics. They may not want to kill (though some certainly want them dead), but most of the hatred of the LGBT community comes directly from these religious groups and their teachings. They preach love, but teach hate.
This country treats LGBT people like sh*t, especially small town bible belt. If you aren't a minority, you have no idea the crap that goes on on a day to day basis in this country.
who here has ever read what the talmud or quran say about people who don't follow the talmud or quran?Ever read what the bible said about that?
who here has ever read what the talmud or quran say about people who don't follow the talmud or quran?Ever read what the bible said about that?
link (https://www.quora.com/Does-Christianity-ever-advocate-or-condone-killing-non-believers).
Every old religion tells people to kill the 'other' people if they believe in another god. People pick and choose what they want to justify their ideas.
**** Ronald Reagan.
Homophobia doesn't make you kill people
It's not just Islam or mental illness, it comes from religion, plain and simple. Muslim, Mormons, Christians and Catholics. They may not want to kill (though some certainly want them dead), but most of the hatred of the LGBT community comes directly from these religious groups and their teachings. They preach love, but teach hate.
This country treats LGBT people like sh*t, especially small town bible belt. If you aren't a minority, you have no idea the crap that goes on on a day to day basis in this country.
**** Ronald Reagan.
I wasn't cherry picking. It was an honest question. And I'd like honest answers from people.who here has ever read what the talmud or quran say about people who don't follow the talmud or quran?Ever read what the bible said about that?
link (https://www.quora.com/Does-Christianity-ever-advocate-or-condone-killing-non-believers).
Every old religion tells people to kill the 'other' people if they believe in another god. People pick and choose what they want to justify their ideas.
Do we have any members from the Orlando area? Hopefully nobody here had friends/family involved in the tragedy.
**** Ronald Reagan.That's all you got from that? When it wasn't about him, but this one quote?
Mental illness is a useful box that people use to explain these kinds of killings without understanding them.
Mental illness is a useful box that people use to explain these kinds of killings without understanding them.
If you can tell yourself that your going to kill a bunch of people and most likely die in the process... and you think they are mentally stable?
I just hope everyone from Orlando on here is straight. People are slaughtered almost every other day in these mass killings, this one just hurts a lot more because its on American Soil.
Mental illness is a useful box that people use to explain these kinds of killings without understanding them.
If you can tell yourself that your going to kill a bunch of people and most likely die in the process... and you think they are mentally stable?
I just hope everyone from Orlando on here is straight. People are slaughtered almost every other day in these mass killings, this one just hurts a lot more because its on American Soil.
Well, that does it, I'm about fed up with mass shootings in the USA. You can try to blame a single cause, but we have created a society that produces more mass murderers than any other western nation, and we have to seriously chip away at every single cause for these incidents. You can blame an ideology, but a human being can be taught to think in ways that see beyond ideologies and reject them.
We are all in this together, do your best to not succomb to influences that seek to create false enemies and divide people that mostly share common interests and seek peaceful lives. See each other as individual human beings, not condemn them by a category. Create love, not hate. The way you think and talk can have more influence on others than you realize, so hold yourself to a code of treating others as human beings deserving of life and freedom of nonviolent lifestyle, with respect and consideration.
Well, that does it, I'm about fed up with mass shootings in the USA. You can try to blame a single cause, but we have created a society that produces more mass murderers than any other western nation, and we have to seriously chip away at every single cause for these incidents. You can blame an ideology, but a human being can be taught to think in ways that see beyond ideologies and reject them.
We are all in this together, do your best to not succomb to influences that seek to create false enemies and divide people that mostly share common interests and seek peaceful lives. See each other as individual human beings, not condemn them by a category. Create love, not hate. The way you think and talk can have more influence on others than you realize, so hold yourself to a code of treating others as human beings deserving of life and freedom of nonviolent lifestyle, with respect and consideration.
What is it with the self-loathing?
The Orlando shooter was gay, Hitler had "bad genes"
Are people so down on themselves that they feel like they have to take it out on the entire world?
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/dna-tests-reveal-hitler-s-jewish-and-african-roots-1.309938 (http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/dna-tests-reveal-hitler-s-jewish-and-african-roots-1.309938)
What is it with the self-loathing?
The Orlando shooter was gay, Hitler had "bad genes"
Are people so down on themselves that they feel like they have to take it out on the entire world?
What is it with the self-loathing?
The Orlando shooter was gay, Hitler had "bad genes"
Are people so down on themselves that they feel like they have to take it out on the entire world?
I can't speak for Hitler, but the effect of religious and cultural oppression on queer people is very often suppression of identity and consequently, self-hatred. My anger at this shooting is less for the shooter and more for the culture that created him.
Well, that does it, I'm about fed up with mass shootings in the USA. You can try to blame a single cause, but we have created a society that produces more mass murderers than any other western nation, and we have to seriously chip away at every single cause for these incidents. You can blame an ideology, but a human being can be taught to think in ways that see beyond ideologies and reject them.
We are all in this together, do your best to not succomb to influences that seek to create false enemies and divide people that mostly share common interests and seek peaceful lives. See each other as individual human beings, not condemn them by a category. Create love, not hate. The way you think and talk can have more influence on others than you realize, so hold yourself to a code of treating others as human beings deserving of life and freedom of nonviolent lifestyle, with respect and consideration.
That's insane.What is it with the self-loathing?
The Orlando shooter was gay, Hitler had "bad genes"
Are people so down on themselves that they feel like they have to take it out on the entire world?
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/dna-tests-reveal-hitler-s-jewish-and-african-roots-1.309938 (http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/dna-tests-reveal-hitler-s-jewish-and-african-roots-1.309938)
Last night, I was watching the news and they were talking about forgiving and understanding the dude. With 50+ deaths to his account, and countless more affected. Seems like they try to find any sort of excuse and reason for these things happening, instead of putting the blame squarely on him.
How could you possibly do that? Hate the ****er, he deserves this. But forget him quickly.What is it with the self-loathing?
The Orlando shooter was gay, Hitler had "bad genes"
Are people so down on themselves that they feel like they have to take it out on the entire world?
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/dna-tests-reveal-hitler-s-jewish-and-african-roots-1.309938 (http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/dna-tests-reveal-hitler-s-jewish-and-african-roots-1.309938)
Last night, I was watching the news and they were talking about forgiving and understanding the dude. With 50+ deaths to his account, and countless more affected. Seems like they try to find any sort of excuse and reason for these things happening, instead of putting the blame squarely on him.
I don't think that perspective is correct in these patient cases..
Our culture is what it is..
But, even if ostracization of homosexuality did not exist..
A person such as this would just find the Next closest thing to h8..
Maybe this guy will h8 all topre users, and shoot up a keyboard meetup..
And proclaim loyalty to the German Reich, who produces Cherry MX-Switches..
--it's just as likely , because his madness could be attached to anything at all..
These shootings don't happen for no reason, and it's irresponsible to just throw up your hands and say "well if it wasn't one thing, it would have been another". That's a bull**** self-indulgent way of dodging responsibility.
The primary cause here is a single person who started out, or became mentally unstable.
The world is already moving in the right direction, but events such as this will continue to occur,
The primary cause here is a single person who started out, or became mentally unstable.
The world is already moving in the right direction, but events such as this will continue to occur,
We are in a transitional time for the human race, and it is a painful one. The "old" world wants to keep things simple and understandable, but a Luddite mentality flies in the face of our exponentially expanding understanding of the universe that we live in. Edison was right on when he said "Tradition is the greatest obstacle to progress."
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/)
Thanks for the article link it was worth a quick read.
We could not have prevented this issue because the root cause is not the many faults of our imperfect world.
The primary cause for this specific event is not homosexuality.
The primary cause here is a single person who started out, or became mentally unstable.
to pretend like homophobia was not a huge part of this shooting.
A "homophobic" person chooses to think and behave in a certain way, but religious beliefs are indoctrinated and carried out as "duties" to God.
to pretend like homophobia was not a huge part of this shooting.
I would not categorize an extreme fundamentalist religious stance as "homophobia"
I would describe it as something different and even deeper and more sinister.
A "homophobic" person chooses to think and behave in a certain way, but religious beliefs are indoctrinated and carried out as "duties" to God.
That's a dangerous generalization.
Why is the news playing down the angle that he was actually gay himself and this is likely a buildup from the past three years he had been going to that club cruising for **** and getting rejected paired with a manifestation of his religious upbringing creeping upBecause ISIS and 'homophobia' clicks better?
cruising for **** and getting rejected paired with a manifestation of his religious upbringing
In what religion killing perverts is good or dutiful?
Indications so far are that this was motivated by homophobia and possibly also religious fanaticism.
Homophobia doesn't make you kill people, mental illness does. You need to be mentally ill if you feel the need 2 kill people based on religion and such.
That's a dangerous generalization.
What is a dangerous generalization?
In what religion killing perverts is good or dutiful?
I don't know how authoritative this is, just what turned up at random on the internet:
http://www.wvinter.net/~haught/Koran.html (http://www.wvinter.net/~haught/Koran.html)
That all believers are indoctrinated and feel it's their duty to do irrational things.
I don't know how authoritative this is, just what turned up at random on the internet:
I genuinely expected better from you fohat, than to quote a series of things out of context, made for the reason of proving a point.
That all believers are indoctrinated and feel it's their duty to do irrational things.
I don't know how authoritative this is, just what turned up at random on the internet:
I genuinely expected better from you fohat, than to quote a series of things out of context, made for the reason of proving a point.
I genuinely might have expected better from you chuckdee, than to take my comments out of context and add your own words into mine.
You sometimes make valid points, but your egregious and disingenuous "style" of "debate" is infuriating and I resent it.
First, as you perfectly well know, I did not say that "all" "believers" are indoctrinated - that is a very different statement from mine: that "religious beliefs are indoctrinated"
Although I was what could only be described as "indoctrinated" as a child, as the vast majority of religious people are, I do accept that it is possible to come to religion as an adult of your own free will. Personally, I "grew out of" religion when I reached adulthood and I am very glad that I did.
As far as the random and arbitrary list of uglinesses that I linked from the internet, there is no doubt that a similar, albeit less strident and murderous list could easily be pulled from Leviticus.
Last, the thing that sets Jesus (the most successful Reform Jew) apart from the rest is his rejection of the arrogance and anger of the other Abrahamic followers and his focus on tolerance, forgiveness, and love and his rejection of technicalities and rules.
A "homophobic" person chooses to think and behave in a certain way, but religious beliefs are indoctrinated and carried out as "duties" to God.
Well, these quotes are mostly about atheists or people of different religions.In what religion killing perverts is good or dutiful?
I don't know how authoritative this is, just what turned up at random on the internet:
http://www.wvinter.net/~haught/Koran.html (http://www.wvinter.net/~haught/Koran.html)
But looking at that, can you tell me that there is no all there?
No, *******, there is absolutely no "all" there.
edit - sorry, I almost let a troll get under my skin
When you can't respond civilly to a civilly stated post,
When you can't respond civilly to a civilly stated post,
Twisting and adding to my words and presenting the result as "my" words rather than "your" words is deeply offensive and uncivil, besides being disingenuous.
Do not quote me unless you quote me verbatim, otherwise say something like "this is what I am imagining that you might be saying:"
A "homophobic" person chooses to think and behave in a certain way, but religious beliefs are indoctrinated and carried out as "duties" to God.
(or whatever the killing perverts and infidels is)
In what religion killing perverts is good or dutiful?
On another note - it would seem to me that "homo" + "phobia" means fear of homosexuals, yet the word is almost always used in the context of those aggressive people inflicting some sort of harm (physical, mental, emotional, whatever) on innocent homosexuals who generally trying to ignore them. Where did that come from?
On another note - it would seem to me that "homo" + "phobia" means fear of homosexuals, yet the word is almost always used in the context of those aggressive people inflicting some sort of harm (physical, mental, emotional, whatever) on innocent homosexuals who generally trying to ignore them. Where did that come from?
I'm not sure I'm following you here. Aggression can be motivated by fear. In this case I'd say it's fear in the sense of having your worldview and beliefs threatened by the existence of gay people and their progress towards acceptance and equal protection.
Doesn't matter what you see
Or into it what you read
You can do it your own way
If it's done just how I say
Commander Locke:
Damnit, Morpheus, not everyone believes what you believe.
Morpheus:
My beliefs don't require them to.
Aggression can be motivated by fear.
In this case I'd say it's fear in the sense of having your worldview and beliefs threatened
That fear is the fear that the other side is right, and that the beliefs won't be validated.
That fear is the fear that the other side is right, and that the beliefs won't be validated.
Yep. When I was a believing Mormon this kind of fear was always lurking under the surface.
Quite the opposite. By definition, religion is defined in such a way that you can't disprove it. That's the whole point of religion; something that's obviously, but not provably wrong. As such, religions, again by definition, don't need to worry about atheists, because their religion can always be defined in such a way that any proof becomes irrelevant. "The Earth is 6000 years old. Oh, you found some fossils that are carbon-dated to be millions of years old? Well god just put them there to test our faith." Facts will never disprove any religion, because they just make up an explanation for it. "That's why it's called believing", "it's all a test", "but it's written in the bible", "god works in mysterious ways", etc. etc. etc.
That fear is the fear that the other side is right, and that the beliefs won't be validated.
Yep. When I was a believing Mormon this kind of fear was always lurking under the surface.
And, even though I need to leave this thread alone, I will up the ante again and say that now that I am 99.9% certain that "God" (any and/or all of them, that is) is not real, I can recognize that the Western religions fear apostasy so much that they are hardly willing even to discuss it.
Funny how the religions, and even sub-sects within broader religious categories, bicker so fiercely amongst themselves, when they should be uniting to destroy their true nemesis: the understanding that it is all just a bogus fairy tale.
That fear is the fear that the other side is right, and that the beliefs won't be validated.
Yep. When I was a believing Mormon this kind of fear was always lurking under the surface.
And, even though I need to leave this thread alone, I will up the ante again and say that now that I am 99.9% certain that "God" (any and/or all of them, that is) is not real, I can recognize that the Western religions fear apostasy so much that they are hardly willing even to discuss it.
Funny how the religions, and even sub-sects within broader religious categories, bicker so fiercely amongst themselves, when they should be uniting to destroy their true nemesis: the understanding that it is all just a bogus fairy tale.