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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: SuperV1234 on Sat, 18 June 2016, 07:03:33

Title: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: SuperV1234 on Sat, 18 June 2016, 07:03:33
I've killed my Ducky Shine 3 TKL (ISO layout, Cherry MX Blue) by accidentally plugging the USB pin connector in the reverse way, thus sending 5V of current backwards through the PCB. I've looked online and it seems that some other people made the same mistake, but I couldn't find any solution. It seems that the damaged component is the same in every occasion: the USB controller. I could not find any report of a successful replacement or even the name of the part in order to buy it online.

I am opening this thread to kindly ask for advice on what to do:
* Should I attempt repairing the keyboard? My experience with electronics is close to nonexistent and I have no clue where to start. I am willing to give it a shot though, if I can correctly detect and find a replacement for the broken component.
* Should I sell the keyboard online for parts? If yes, how much should I charge for it? (Never done this before, as well.)

Thanks!
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: suicidal_orange on Sat, 18 June 2016, 08:17:44
You might be able to find and buy the right chip (you should be able to read the writing on it, a magnifying glass or good camera may help) but you won't have the firmware to put on it even if you do manage to take it off and put the new one on without doing any damage.

I have hijacked the switch matrix in my Ducky using a Teensy 2.0++ so that's an option, you need a soldering iron but not much skill - the result looks something like this:

(http://i.imgur.com/IFtFqOs.jpg)

Mine's not a shine so I don't know how to make all the LEDs light up, but it is possible to get a working board.
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: SuperV1234 on Sun, 19 June 2016, 07:53:53
Quote from: suicidal_orange on Sat, 18 June 2016, 08:17:44
You might be able to find and buy the right chip (you should be able to read the writing on it, a magnifying glass or good camera may help) but you won't have the firmware to put on it even if you do manage to take it off and put the new one on without doing any damage.

I have hijacked the switch matrix in my Ducky using a Teensy 2.0++ so that's an option, you need a soldering iron but not much skill - the result looks something like this:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/IFtFqOs.jpg)


Mine's not a shine so I don't know how to make all the LEDs light up, but it is possible to get a working board.

Thanks for the advice.
Do you have a guide/resource I can follow for the Teensy 2.0++ hijack?
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: suicidal_orange on Sun, 19 June 2016, 08:14:17
Short answer - not really. It took a lot of continuity probing to map out the matrix and having used it for over a year I swapped firmware and realised I had too many wires and I've not documented it...

 If your board is the same as mine I can say what I've got connected where - what's the code on your PCB?  Can you take a pic with the traces visible in the shine?
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: SuperV1234 on Thu, 23 June 2016, 13:56:28
Quote from: suicidal_orange on Sun, 19 June 2016, 08:14:17
Short answer - not really. It took a lot of continuity probing to map out the matrix and having used it for over a year I swapped firmware and realised I had too many wires and I've not documented it...

 If your board is the same as mine I can say what I've got connected where - what's the code on your PCB?  Can you take a pic with the traces visible in the shine?

I have some hi-res photos here, let me know if they are fine:
http://vittorioromeo.info/Misc/ducky/

This is what is written on the PCB:
DK9087S3+P 87/88/91Key
PCB FR-4 T=1.6mm Rev2.0
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: myanngo on Sun, 29 October 2017, 14:27:42
Hey I know this thread has been post for quite a while now. I suspect I might have the same problem with the same keyboard. Does your  capacitors over at C10 and C12, under the page down key gets super hot? Also did you find a solution to fix it without using a teensy?
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: Themonkeyswrench on Sun, 10 June 2018, 06:14:43
Quote from: suicidal_orange on Sat, 18 June 2016, 08:17:44
You might be able to find and buy the right chip (you should be able to read the writing on it, a magnifying glass or good camera may help) but you won't have the firmware to put on it even if you do manage to take it off and put the new one on without doing any damage.

I have hijacked the switch matrix in my Ducky using a Teensy 2.0++ so that's an option, you need a soldering iron but not much skill - the result looks something like this:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/IFtFqOs.jpg)


Mine's not a shine so I don't know how to make all the LEDs light up, but it is possible to get a working board.

I know this post is ancient now, but is that a DK2108? I just had a firmware flash go terribly wrong and might have to resort to something like this.
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: suicidal_orange on Sun, 10 June 2018, 06:44:09
From what I can make out in the low res pic there's no code like DK2018 - could be the year of manufacture?

It's not fun to dismantle but I can have a look in about 10 hours if you think it would help?
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: Themonkeyswrench on Sun, 10 June 2018, 06:49:38
That's not necessary but I appreciate the offer. DK2108 is the original zero model number! I think regardless I'm going to try to switch my board over to a teensy. Is there any guide you would recommend for doing something similar to yours?
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: suicidal_orange on Sun, 10 June 2018, 07:48:26
Oops - misread the 2108 as 2018 :-[

In that case yes mine is a DK2108, at least that's what it says on the sticker on the back.  In that case the guide reads:

Get a blue flame lighter, run it round the controller chip that's below and to the left of the USB connector (you can see the square of pads in the pic above) and knock it off.  If you damage any pads remove them to ensure no shorts.

Find some random insulated wire that's quite thin - I used the wire from some big headphones, others have used stranded ethernet cable, old IDE hard drive cables...

Buy a Teensy 2.0++ (https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensypp.html)

Find a USB mini cable with a small connector housing - I bought a DIY connector and soldered it to the original cable, just didn't put the housing on.  A bit of tape so it doesn't short on the board.

I'll dig out my notes of what's soldered where, copy that and you'll have a board with matching config for EasyAVR (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51252.0).

Only other thing I used was a hot glue gun to hold the Teensy and keep the wires tidy.
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: Themonkeyswrench on Sun, 10 June 2018, 07:54:37
Awesome! Those notes would be great! I appreciate all of your help!
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: suicidal_orange on Wed, 13 June 2018, 10:06:58
OK I've dug out my notes, you have to solder these pins to the end of the diode with the black bar on it
 
   Teensy pin   Diode   
   F5      D41   
   D5      D2   
   D7      D50   
   C7      D36   
   C6      D37   
   E0      D4   
   F6      D39   
   E1      D6   
   B2      D7   
   B3      D8   
   B4      D97   
   B5      D10   
   E6      D31   
   B6      D12   
   F2      D78   
   F3      D33   
   F7      D97   

And these pins to the pin on the switch which isn't connected to the diode, from what I can make out in my pic that's the left/higher one at least most of the time
   Teensy pin   Switch   
   F10      D2   
   F9      D1   
   F12      D4   
   .>      B0   
   F4      D0   
Num Enter   C5   
   ]      B7   
   Fn      F0   

This corresponds with the attached config file, I moved a coupe of connections which I had used ISO labels which would have confused you assuming your board is ANSI.  Please don't spend any time customising the layout until every key works, sometimes the mapper goes wrong if you change the hardware config behind it.

Also please note that pin F4 on the Teensy is included in the switch matrix as column 1 due to a wiring error which didn't show up when I was using Soarer's firmware - removing it would take way too much work so I've just left it in there unused.  This was never meant to be released :))
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: neetblog on Sat, 29 September 2018, 20:01:46
I am suffering from the same problem. A few days ago the 5pin connector accidentally got disconnected while I was cleaning the board and put it in the wrong way. It's definitely an issue with the polarity being reversed but after spending dozens of hours inspecting the problem I don't think I've made much progress. Pin 26 and 27 of the microcontroller read a low voltage and current but it seems to be functional. The resistors around the power source and controller are fine. Capacitors all but C16 (0 volt and amps) are giving me a consistent current. I believe the red PCB is functioning the problem just might be a few messed up capacitors and I'm having a hard time finding the right capacitance to replace C16. Anyone ever find a solution that doesn't end up rewiring the entire board?
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: Maddrake on Sun, 24 February 2019, 02:31:05
didnt want to necro a thread but i got a board from ebay broken and decided to try this out. Doesnt work fully according to your notes unfortunently. I have a few keys going while a whole area is out. Looking closer at your picture it looks like you soldered a few keys together. any thoughts?
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: suicidal_orange on Sun, 24 February 2019, 04:22:25
Quote from: Maddrake on Sun, 24 February 2019, 02:31:05
Looking closer at your picture it looks like you soldered a few keys together. any thoughts?

Yes I did have to solder some keys together because they weren't working due to breaks in the matrix.  A couple of jumper wires and your blocks of keys will probably all jump back to life too.

Which keys aren't working?
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 24 February 2019, 10:23:11
Quote from: suicidal_orange on Sat, 18 June 2016, 08:17:44
You might be able to find and buy the right chip (you should be able to read the writing on it, a magnifying glass or good camera may help) but you won't have the firmware to put on it even if you do manage to take it off and put the new one on without doing any damage.

I have hijacked the switch matrix in my Ducky using a Teensy 2.0++ so that's an option, you need a soldering iron but not much skill - the result looks something like this:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/IFtFqOs.jpg)


Mine's not a shine so I don't know how to make all the LEDs light up, but it is possible to get a working board.


The Borg is taking over..
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: Maddrake on Sun, 24 February 2019, 11:28:50
Quote from: suicidal_orange on Sun, 24 February 2019, 04:22:25
Quote from: Maddrake on Sun, 24 February 2019, 02:31:05
Looking closer at your picture it looks like you soldered a few keys together. any thoughts?

Yes I did have to solder some keys together because they weren't working due to breaks in the matrix.  A couple of jumper wires and your blocks of keys will probably all jump back to life too.

Which keys aren't working?
ok so
`through 7 do not work
8 and= activate at the same time
9 and f8 activate at the same time
0 and - activate at the same time
backspace doesnt work
esc through f4 do not work
F5 and left ctrl activate at the same time.
f6-f7 works
f9 through f12 do not work
tab through u do not work
I through ] works
\  doesnt work
 caps lock through j do not work
k through . works
enter doesnt work
Left shift through M do not work
, through / works
right shift doesnt work
ctrl activates f5
alt doesnt work
windows key through space works
alt keys do not work
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: suicidal_orange on Sun, 24 February 2019, 11:40:12
That's a lot of keys and not just not working but doing strange things too.  I'm almost tempted to say it's a different board but some patterns make sense...

Can you take a pic of the back of the PCB with the light highlighting the traces?
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: Maddrake on Sun, 24 February 2019, 11:52:30
[attach=1]
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 24 February 2019, 12:09:42
Quote from: Maddrake on Sun, 24 February 2019, 11:52:30
(Attachment Link)

Infection is spreading.
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: suicidal_orange on Sun, 24 February 2019, 12:23:34
The first thing I notice is some of your wires run over other switch pins - if they get trapped and the cover gets punctured (most likely when putting it back in the case) this will cause problems.  Also it looks like there are some raised/bent traces and blobs of solder where the old controller came off - make sure there are no shorts there, it's very small so might be worth cutting all the traces you can see running to the chip.

It does look like a very similar PCB so hopefully fixing the above will get rid of the multiple keys at once and maybe some of the dead parts too.
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: suicidal_orange on Sun, 24 February 2019, 12:28:47
Quote from: tp4tissue on Sun, 24 February 2019, 12:09:42
Quote from: Maddrake on Sun, 24 February 2019, 11:52:30
(Attachment Link)

Infection is spreading.
Who'da thunk it, after all these years people are still doing what I did long ago and buying dead Duckys.  Just wish I was more organised when doing this - the rows and columns aren't logical to start with, then to add to the fun I ordered them randomly in the firmware so this among the worst boards to debug :))
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: Maddrake on Sun, 24 February 2019, 14:48:03
alright after some more testing my traces were touching so i cut them this time. seems to be almost 100 percent so far.
Im missing a few f functions f9-f12
missing both shifts  and alts not sure whats going on there  but ill check it again
Missing
backspace
\
and 4,5, and 6
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: Maddrake on Sun, 24 February 2019, 21:46:41
well after working on it for while i noticed that my teensy gets brighter on the keys that dont work.
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: suicidal_orange on Mon, 25 February 2019, 03:19:38
Is your Teensy genuine?  Some clones may use different pins for the onboard LED and using those pins for the matrix can cause problems.

F9-F11 and backspace are connected on my board but F12 isn't.  4-6 in the numberpad are connected.  \ is key though - it says that you have my original config file which was for an ISO board.  Please find attached a new config file which has a tiny \| key next to the big enter.  It may fix other things too...
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: Maddrake on Mon, 25 February 2019, 18:22:17
I tried your recent file and saw no changes in the boards function. Ill have to check my teensy if its legit. it looks like the one i ordered from pjrc directly but ill compare it to images. Im sure i might have missed cutting a trace or cut one i needed. Ill take another look when i get some free time. Thank you for the help ! I'm just glad the board is working in any sort of capacity. I wanted to type this out with it but i need backspace and enter haha.
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: suicidal_orange on Mon, 25 February 2019, 18:54:05
I've spotted a problem - in the config D7 is used but in the guide above it says D6.  D6 is attached to the onboard LED...  I'll correct it now :-[

So cut or desolder the wire to D6 and move it to D7 and you should have a usable keyboard (but maybe without shifts and alts - who needs them anyway?!) Themonkeyswrench had problems with shifts so I'll have to go back through some old PMs to see what he(?) did to fix them.

I should have mentioned that F12 may be working already, it doesn't show up in keytester programs but it does show a strange performance thing in Firefox.
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: Maddrake on Tue, 26 February 2019, 18:34:35
ok i reflashed the orignal ducky.py and i have the keybooard mostly working now( also got working via the d7  d6 change!). currently typing with it now. f12 like you said  doesnt show on the keyboard tester. im still missing 456 not sure why but ill take a look at it. but this great, thank you for helping me so much. ill have to put it in its case and use it at work. hate the membrane ones they have.
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: Maddrake on Tue, 26 February 2019, 19:19:20
i was wondering if i could get an hd picture of the traces where the original IC was on your board? I was just being dumb and i messed them up. I noticed a few vias and pads are connected around there from underneath. From the corners of C7 and C17.
Title: Re: Dead Ducky Shine 3 TKL - possibilities?
Post by: suicidal_orange on Thu, 28 February 2019, 18:01:17
Sorry for going AWOL, working shifts and cycling is fun until the bike goes wrong...

Is this hd enough?  Found it in one of my first posts dated December 2014 - surprised it's still hosted!

(http://i.imgur.com/1zrMkx7.jpg)

4,5 and 6 should be connected to ] on the non-diode pins - one jumper wire and sounds like you have a fully working board.