Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/LaYBl8l.jpg)
Here is a size comparison of topre silencing rings (left) and 5/16' dental bands (right).
If you want to significantly reduce travel, then I recommend dental bands. I honestly think the silencing rings don't do **** for the sound (at least on the type-s). That's just me though.
I've used these on all the topre boards I've modded: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dental-Rubber-Bands-5-16-3-5oz-Orthodontic-Elastics-Braces-Teeth-Gap-/261768271661?hash=item3cf29ad72d
A thick lube solution is also a great idea. To reduce sound imo, plus it just feels better.
I personally have never modded/used a silenced realforce either. I dental/lubed a 55g realforce and that felt like garbage. I have a hhkb type-s, that I found to be rather loud for a silenced board. Even after installing lube and dental bands I don't find the feel to be as good compared to a reg HHKB; but the sound was reduced compared to stock.
i've installed dental bands on a variable weighted realforce board, and found that the reduced travel is more apparent on the lighter domes, which gave it an unappealing feel imo.
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/LaYBl8l.jpg)
I dental/lubed a 55g realforce and that felt like garbage. I have a hhkb type-s, that I found to be rather loud for a silenced board. Even after installing lube and dental bands I don't find the feel to be as good compared to a reg HHKB; but the sound was reduced compared to stock.
A stock unsilenced RF is definitely louder than a stock silenced RF. No question. That said, I can't imagine anyone being able to hear someone else type on an RF Type-S while they're talking on the phone.
Another very simple way to quiet down the keyboard would be to put some material between the keyboard and the desk.Thanks, but I'm way past that. ;-)
fohat.digs sells rubber mats ( https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59308.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59308.0)) that could be used or you could use a few layers of drawer liner or some other suitable material.
Another very simple way to quiet down the keyboard would be to put some material between the keyboard and the desk.Thanks, but I'm way past that. ;-)
fohat.digs sells rubber mats ( https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59308.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59308.0)) that could be used or you could use a few layers of drawer liner or some other suitable material.
I tried a lot of materials and ended up spending big money for thin sheets of black silicon in rolls that I cut to size. Provides cushioning to reduce vibration/sound while still feeling solid, and inhibits sliding really well.
Thank you for the help!Another very simple way to quiet down the keyboard would be to put some material between the keyboard and the desk.Thanks, but I'm way past that. ;-)
fohat.digs sells rubber mats ( https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59308.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59308.0)) that could be used or you could use a few layers of drawer liner or some other suitable material.
I tried a lot of materials and ended up spending big money for thin sheets of black silicon in rolls that I cut to size. Provides cushioning to reduce vibration/sound while still feeling solid, and inhibits sliding really well.
That's awesome. Was it sorbothane that you used?
I think the problem you will find here is most people have only silenced regular topre and not so much tried to further silence, silenced topre.
The one thing I've never had was the silenced realforce from the factory to know how it compares to any of the below mentioned mods.
On the spacebar you might try and find a PBT spacebar as it might be a little quieter.
A couple things that have been successful with silencing stabilized keys is using double sided tape between the stabilizer housings and plate and also putting some sort of foam (ironed landind pad etc.) on the outside of the stabilizers housing and putting some thick lube in a few strategic places.
There is an ironed landing pad silencing modification by spiceBar there are some good ideas in his thread here https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49046.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49046.0)
There is also a multitude of silencing information around for the novatouch which might not directly apply to the realforce but some of it could possibly be adapted. A quick google search for novatouch silencing should get you where you need to go on that.
Personally the type-s hhkb wasn't all the much more silent than the stock hhkb with drawer liner under it. Also I had a previous dental band modded HHKB that to me just felt weird but did silence.
I also had an 87UB witch was lubed and had punched rubber rings (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40582.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40582.0)) it was very quiet.
And I've got a 104UBDK with ironed landing pads and lube that is very quiet, I'll try and get it out to see how loud the spacebar is.
I sold it but I also had a lubed and ironed landing pad modded 55g 23U which was extremely quiet.
The lube I've used is either this http://techkeys.us/collections/accessories/products/krytox-switch-lurbricant (http://techkeys.us/collections/accessories/products/krytox-switch-lurbricant) or at one time there was an extra thick and topre specific one but I don't know if it is available anywhere currently. It's just a mix of krytox oil and grease to get the consistency you want.
Did your Realforce 104U Silent come with PBT spacebars? If not, you can find some here (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Topre-realforce-hhkb-capacitor-keyboard-keycaps-multicolour-cap-pbt-material/32680577961.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_0%2Csearchweb201602_1_10017_507_401_10040%2Csearchweb201603_9&btsid=f3d474d9-c982-4681-b39b-000702ff03aa).
A stock unsilenced RF is definitely louder than a stock silenced RF. No question. That said, I can't imagine anyone being able to hear someone else type on an RF Type-S while they're talking on the phone.
I realize all of those technological components are also supposed to help reduce background noise, but the "boom" on the headset is facing right at the keyboard, which is the one direction its mics and software don't block.
I realize all of those technological components are also supposed to help reduce background noise, but the "boom" on the headset is facing right at the keyboard, which is the one direction its mics and software don't block.
It would be very odd if this were true because sound (especially in noisy environments) is often reflected off of multiple surfaces, including your desk and the ground. This is why music studios apply acoustic treatment in their mixing rooms(to prevent reflections).
If sound hits them in that same order, it assumes it's coming from the mouth and it goes through. Otherwise, it's cancelled out.
I'm more interested in improving the typing experience, and my aptitude with it, and to my mind right now a bit of reduction in key travel, to more closely match what I had with the Browns with o-rings, seems like the way to improve things over where I am now -- and hopefully that solution helps to reduce sound as well, which I'd also, secondarily, like to achieve compared to where I am now.
If sound hits them in that same order, it assumes it's coming from the mouth and it goes through. Otherwise, it's cancelled out.
I'd be curious to know where you read that.I'm more interested in improving the typing experience, and my aptitude with it, and to my mind right now a bit of reduction in key travel, to more closely match what I had with the Browns with o-rings, seems like the way to improve things over where I am now -- and hopefully that solution helps to reduce sound as well, which I'd also, secondarily, like to achieve compared to where I am now.
Do you know the size of the o-rings used in your board with Browns?
If sound hits them in that same order, it assumes it's coming from the mouth and it goes through. Otherwise, it's cancelled out.
I'd be curious to know where you read that.
3 mics: Go to http://www.plantronics.com/us/product/voyager-legend (http://www.plantronics.com/us/product/voyager-legend) and scroll down to "Features" > "Best noise & wind canceling" and click on it. (Plus, well, tech support has explained it to me.)
My notes say I got "-008 S40" but I don't see S40 on their site now and I don't recall what it meant (I'm pretty sure S was for Silicone and 40 is the hardness rating; I'm sure one can call them and ask). The size chart, nonetheless, says it's "1/16" in thickness (and so do my notes) -- or, well, ".070 inches give or take .003 inches."
I wonder if you had a less knowledgeable tech at Plantronics, or maybe I did. I think I recall getting that description I related from more than one source. As it is, it works pretty good. (Actually, I can say from experience it seems the direction matters and not the volume. I was standing in front of a high-powered blender for making smoothies that's incredibly loud. I was on a call with someone with the Voyager Legend. I turned on the blender, turned my head so it was to my right side with the headset on my right ear, so the blender was to the "side" of the headset, and started yelling to the person on the phone that I apologize for the incredibly loud noise from the blender in the background and telling them it will be done in about twenty seconds. After the blender was off, they said, "What blender? I could hear you fine and barely noticed anything in the background." It was pretty impressive to say the least.)If sound hits them in that same order, it assumes it's coming from the mouth and it goes through. Otherwise, it's cancelled out.
I'd be curious to know where you read that.
3 mics: Go to http://www.plantronics.com/us/product/voyager-legend (http://www.plantronics.com/us/product/voyager-legend) and scroll down to "Features" > "Best noise & wind canceling" and click on it. (Plus, well, tech support has explained it to me.)
The reason I ask is because when I spoke with the techs at Plantronics, I was told that the noise cancellation technology in that specific headset differentiates between your voice and ambient noise based on how loud the sound is, not the direction it's coming from or in what order it hits the mics. Since your mouth is closest to the mic, it gets transmitted. However, if the ambient noise reaches a certain threshold, it's transmitted as well.My notes say I got "-008 S40" but I don't see S40 on their site now and I don't recall what it meant (I'm pretty sure S was for Silicone and 40 is the hardness rating; I'm sure one can call them and ask). The size chart, nonetheless, says it's "1/16" in thickness (and so do my notes) -- or, well, ".070 inches give or take .003 inches."
Since the key travel between unmodded Browns / Topre is the same(4mm), you simply need Topre silencing rings that are as close to the same thickness (1.7mm / .070") as the o-rings in your board with Browns. Hypersphere's silencing rings are approximately .5mm thick so you'd need to stack them, but considering how expensive they are ... it seems the less expensive and more practical route, at least to start, would be the dental bands. I can't seem to find any information confirming the thickness of the dental bands, as they come in multiple thicknesses that are commonly referenced using vague weighting terminology(light, medium, heavy, x-heavy, etc.), but if it were me, I'd look for 3/16" diameter in both a light and medium gauge to start. Since they're pretty inexpensive, I'd order both just to be on the safe side and see which one is closest.
I wonder if you had a less knowledgeable tech at Plantronics, or maybe I did. I think I recall getting that description I related from more than one source. As it is, it works pretty good. (Actually, I can say from experience it seems the direction matters and not the volume. I was standing in front of a high-powered blender for making smoothies that's incredibly loud. I was on a call with someone with the Voyager Legend. I turned on the blender, turned my head so it was to my right side with the headset on my right ear, so the blender was to the "side" of the headset, and started yelling to the person on the phone that I apologize for the incredibly loud noise from the blender in the background and telling them it will be done in about twenty seconds. After the blender was off, they said, "What blender? I could hear you fine and barely noticed anything in the background." It was pretty impressive to say the least.)
I'm not clear on why nobody is suggesting o-rings on the Topres like I used on the Browns but obviously there's a reason they're not
So, it seems we're making progress. I really appreciate the help. A stack of hypersphere's can closely match the travel reduction I had with the Browns? The question is whether you're talking about doing that with a standard RealForce 104U variable or with a "Silenced" version of it, since my understanding is they have different lengths of stems. Which did you have in mind in comparing those distances?
I believe it was indicated in this thread that dental bands reduced sound better than hyperspheres, and I can't tell whether hyperspheres reduce the sound more than the "silencing" rings that RealForce "silenced" keyboards already have. Any idea?
(I would think a stack of hypersphere's would do more to reduce sound than one layer would, wouldn't you agree?)
So, where would you go from here if you were me?
Both techs I spoke with relayed the same information independently, but in my experience with support in general it wouldn't be the first time I've received conflicting information.For kicks, I emailed Plantronics tech support today asking which was correct -- what you were told or what I was told. The response was vague, so I pressed for escalation and they insisted they checked with the “Senior Product Developers and Engineers” twice (after I pressed the second time), and they said all they’re allowed to say in response is: “The Voyager Legend boom has 3 built-in microphones that work together to optimize voice-audio using a proprietary algorithm,” and “We can only inform that the 3 microphones work together to optimize the sound of the voice using our proprietary algorithm.”
If it were me, the first thing I'd probably do is try to use one of the o-rings from your Browns on a Topre barrel. This is something you can try yourself. You only need to remove a single key cap from both boards and then remove the o-ring from the Brown and see if it'll fit around the exposed barrel of the 104U. If it fits, you know it's possible to mod the 104U with them. Nevertheless, you'd still need to have the 104U disassembled to mod it.I’m quite sure just from the visual images in this thread that the o-rings I used on the Browns will have too small of a diameter to fit on the Topre stems. The diameter of those o-rings I used on the Browns is 0.176 inch ± 0.005 inch. Maybe someone can measure the Topre stems for us?
Failing that, and assuming money were no object, I'd buy three sets of Hypersphere's rings and triple stack them. This would reduce the key travel by 1.5mm, which is approximately a .2mm difference from the o-rings on your board with MX Browns.
I’m quite sure just from the visual images in this thread that the o-rings I used on the Browns will have too small of a diameter to fit on the Topre stems. The diameter of those o-rings I used on the Browns is 0.176 inch ± 0.005 inch. Maybe someone can measure the Topre stems for us?
I’ll have to buy a keyboard for this, so we have to decide if it should be a stock or a silenced with the longer stems. Part of the criteria should be which is more suitable, and part of the criteria should be which is more readily available now and in the foreseeable future. (I use white. I couldn’t read black.)
Again, can you do this for me? Or, who can, please? I’m willing to pay someone who I can trust with it.
Based on the size of the dental bands, I believe it should be 3/16" inner diameter.Oh, cool. That’s essentially the same as the o-rings I used with my Browns.
I've already spent quite a bit of time modding my own Topre boards and don't have any interest in working on another one, nor would I have the time to devote to it.So, anyone else? Any recommendations for forum members I might want to reach out to who may not have noticed this thread? Surely there must be a number of highly qualified people who would be happy to take it on for pay. Please make some recommendations for me if you can, either here or via PM. I’d be very grateful.
I'd want the 104U Silent. Massdrop is currently selling them with 1 day left. Again, the sliders in the 104U Silent are longer, but the travel distance between the 104U Silent and stock unsilenced is exactly the same. They lengthened the sliders on the 104U Silent to compensate for the slight loss incurred after adding the silencing rings.Are you suggesting that if I use the silenced RealForce 104U I’d probably want to leave their silencing ring in it and “add” my o-ring to it?
I'd want the 104U Silent. Massdrop is currently selling them with 1 day left. Again, the sliders in the 104U Silent are longer, but the travel distance between the 104U Silent and stock unsilenced is exactly the same. They lengthened the sliders on the 104U Silent to compensate for the slight loss incurred after adding the silencing rings.Are you suggesting that if I use the silenced RealForce 104U I’d probably want to leave their silencing ring in it and “add” my o-ring to it?