geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Ciemnika on Sun, 10 July 2016, 20:03:36
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I think I need a HHKB. Since I've hit endgame on my Filco (maybe I should sell it?), I want to try out something else. I've been using Cherry MX keyboards for probably 15 years now, and I think a bit of a change - or at least experimentation - would be good.
So, I'm looking at this keyboard on Amazon:
https://amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Professional2-White/dp/B000EXZ0V2
My questions are:
- Why is it so much less money than this one? Are the type-S boards really that much better? https://amazon.com/PFU-Hacking-Keyboard-Professional2-English/dp/B008GXQWOG
- I really like the keycap color on the type-S board. It looks like the less expensive one that I'm looking at may have the same key color, but it's very hard to say with the photos looking as differently as they do. Does anyone have any insight as to the keycap color on the lower priced board?
Bonus question: should I get this thing? Will it be better than my Filco and make me forsake Cherry?
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I think I need a HHKB. Since I've hit endgame on my Filco (maybe I should sell it?), I want to try out something else. I've been using Cherry MX keyboards for probably 15 years now, and I think a bit of a change - or at least experimentation - would be good.
So, I'm looking at this keyboard on Amazon:
https://amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Professional2-White/dp/B000EXZ0V2
My questions are:
- Why is it so much less money than this one? Are the type-S boards really that much better? https://amazon.com/PFU-Hacking-Keyboard-Professional2-English/dp/B008GXQWOG
- I really like the keycap color on the type-S board. It looks like the less expensive one that I'm looking at may have the same key color, but it's very hard to say with the photos looking as differently as they do. Does anyone have any insight as to the keycap color on the lower priced board?
Bonus question: should I get this thing? Will it be better than my Filco and make me forsake Cherry?
You ask a lot of subjective questions on this post. So let me do my best to offer my observations:
* The Type-S are more expensive due to demand and because additional work (and materials) are required to produce it.
* Being that much better is subjective. They are quietier and have a slightly different feel. Better is subjective.
* I have no idea if the keycap colors are the same or different on the non-silenced and type-s boards.
I would strongly recommend you have a go with a topre board on a test basis before dropping cash on one (unless you are swimming in cash). Even a Novatouch (topre domes with MX sliders) will give you a basic idea of what the difference is between topre and non-topre. The HHKBs are smoother than the Novatouch due to better sliders.
If you are in SoCal, I'd recommend a trip to elitekeyboards as they have showroom demo boards. Also, their price is a bit better than Amazon and they may not charge tax if you are out of the state of California. Then again, they do charge shipping so :shrug:
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I believe both the regular and Type-S flavors of HHKB come with the same keycaps, at least when you are looking at the "White" HHKB's. Both the regular and Type-S versions are available in blank and printed white keycaps, although in my experience the printed Type-S is more difficult to find in stock. It sounds like you are more interested in the white version of the HHKB which is convenient as the Type-S is not available in dark-grey. If you go down the regular HHKB route you can choose from the dark-grey printed and dark-grey non-printed keycaps in addition to the white printed/non-printed.
Unfortunately I do not have any experience with either the regular or Type-S, so my input on the debate is limited. However, I have done a bit of research on the differences between the two as I am also in the market for one. The consensus is variable and completely subjective as Digifiend mentioned already. In my opinion it depends on your usage; if keyboard volume is not a concern, I would go for the regular version and see how you like the sound. You can always go down the dental band route or other silencing methods in the future if you find the volume too much. Otherwise HHKBs, from what I've seen on GH, hold their value and sell pretty quickly in the classifieds section allowing you to get a Type-S.
Again as Digifiend said, elitekeyboards.com seems to be a highly reputable source for HHKBs.
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The price difference between Type-S and normal HHKB is about the same on EK.
The keycaps are the same - HHKB only has 4 keycap sets - white printed (what you have linked), white blank, black printed, and black blank.
Some say they prefer the Type-S, which has rubber rings on the sliders to make the upstroke a bit quieter. Many say that spoils the distinctive thock sound of a Topre keyboard.
A few even silence their own normal HHKB. Again some prefer self-silenced, and some say that was the worst thing they ever did to their HHKB.
Personally I like the thock from an unsilenced HHKB, and mine is white and printed, and the keycaps are great!
Although I did manage to get a white PBT space bar to replace the standard ABS one which had developed a little shine.
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You ask a lot of subjective questions on this post. So let me do my best to offer my observations:
* The Type-S are more expensive due to demand and because additional work (and materials) are required to produce it.
* Being that much better is subjective. They are quietier and have a slightly different feel. Better is subjective.
* I have no idea if the keycap colors are the same or different on the non-silenced and type-s boards.
I would strongly recommend you have a go with a topre board on a test basis before dropping cash on one (unless you are swimming in cash). Even a Novatouch (topre domes with MX sliders) will give you a basic idea of what the difference is between topre and non-topre. The HHKBs are smoother than the Novatouch due to better sliders.
If you are in SoCal, I'd recommend a trip to elitekeyboards as they have showroom demo boards. Also, their price is a bit better than Amazon and they may not charge tax if you are out of the state of California. Then again, they do charge shipping so :shrug:
When I was asking about better, I really meant whether the type-S was using different or upgraded switches or other mechanics or if the difference was really just about the sound and a little bit of feel. I'm on the East Coast, right by DC, so I think the trip to SoCal for the keyboard probably isn't worth it (this time). I'll check out their shop though, may be something fun to see the next time I'm out there.
I'm not worried about spending the cash to buy either. If I got it from Amazon and really disliked it, I could always send it back, too.
I believe both the regular and Type-S flavors of HHKB come with the same keycaps, at least when you are looking at the "White" HHKB's. Both the regular and Type-S versions are available in blank and printed white keycaps, although in my experience the printed Type-S is more difficult to find in stock. It sounds like you are more interested in the white version of the HHKB which is convenient as the Type-S is not available in dark-grey. If you go down the regular HHKB route you can choose from the dark-grey printed and dark-grey non-printed keycaps in addition to the white printed/non-printed.
That's what I thought about the keycaps. Thanks for confirming.
The price difference between Type-S and normal HHKB is about the same on EK.
The keycaps are the same - HHKB only has 4 keycap sets - white printed (what you have linked), white blank, black printed, and black blank.
Some say they prefer the Type-S, which has rubber rings on the sliders to make the upstroke a bit quieter. Many say that spoils the distinctive thock sound of a Topre keyboard.
A few even silence their own normal HHKB. Again some prefer self-silenced, and some say that was the worst thing they ever did to their HHKB.
Personally I like the thock from an unsilenced HHKB, and mine is white and printed, and the keycaps are great!
Although I did manage to get a white PBT space bar to replace the standard ABS one which had developed a little shine.
Great info, thanks! I'm not concerned about the amount of noise the keyboard produces, I was mostly asking about the differences from the perspective of one using better switches, but it sounds like the Type-S just has had effort put in to keep the noise down. It's a bummer they use ABS on the space, which gets used so much. I'd probably have to replace mine with PBT right away to be happy with it.
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I found this video, which seems to do a good job of capturing the sounds of the keyboards. My Filco is pretty loud (browns in an aluminum case), and volume isn't a problem at all. I work from home most of the time, and when I travel, I typically just use my laptop keyboard instead of hauling a separate board with me. I think I like the sound of the original the best.
Guess I'll decide today whether I'm going to order one and maybe pull the trigger.
I've got a Filco MJ2 TKL with a plasti-dipped aluminum Vortex case, Pegasus Hoof, custom Mimic breakaway cable, and set of Vortex keycaps right now. Maybe I should sell it and have a change?
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If you haven't used a 60% keyboard it might be a good idea to try one (a 60% keyboard, not necessarily a HHKB) before you buy a HHKB. There are other Topre boards out there. It's not unusual to see a HHKB listed in the classifieds by someone who liked the keyboard but not the layout.
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Buy it
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If you're serious about wanting to buy one, I have a lightly used(read: 6ish months of daily driving) white printed capped HHKB I want to let go for cheap! I just have no use for it anymore and I'd like to get some money out of it. I'm thinking $130+shipping.
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If you're serious about wanting to buy one, I have a lightly used(read: 6ish months of daily driving) white printed capped HHKB I want to let go for cheap! I just have no use for it anymore and I'd like to get some money out of it. I'm thinking $130+shipping.
THIS IS STUPID CHEAP
BUY IT.
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If you're serious about wanting to buy one, I have a lightly used(read: 6ish months of daily driving) white printed capped HHKB I want to let go for cheap! I just have no use for it anymore and I'd like to get some money out of it. I'm thinking $130+shipping.
THIS IS STUPID CHEAP
BUY IT.
Hahaha, stupid cheap is a good way to put it. OP sounds like a good person and if he hates it he can sell it for more :p I just want to get rid of it.
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If you're serious about wanting to buy one, I have a lightly used(read: 6ish months of daily driving) white printed capped HHKB I want to let go for cheap! I just have no use for it anymore and I'd like to get some money out of it. I'm thinking $130+shipping.
THIS IS STUPID CHEAP
BUY IT.
What he said.
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If you're serious about wanting to buy one, I have a lightly used(read: 6ish months of daily driving) white printed capped HHKB I want to let go for cheap! I just have no use for it anymore and I'd like to get some money out of it. I'm thinking $130+shipping.
I'm interested. Can you send me some pics?
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Buy it
Do another HHKB tour and I'll think about it. :D
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Buy it
Do another HHKB tour and I'll think about it. :D
Can't. My pro2 is modded now. So you won't get the OG feeling.
And my type S is staying with me o.o
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If you're serious about wanting to buy one, I have a lightly used(read: 6ish months of daily driving) white printed capped HHKB I want to let go for cheap! I just have no use for it anymore and I'd like to get some money out of it. I'm thinking $130+shipping.
I'm interested. Can you send me some pics?
Absolutely! I'm at work at the moment but I can take anything and everything you want when I get home. I don't have the original box anymore though, just a heads up.
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If you're serious about wanting to buy one, I have a lightly used(read: 6ish months of daily driving) white printed capped HHKB I want to let go for cheap! I just have no use for it anymore and I'd like to get some money out of it. I'm thinking $130+shipping.
I'm interested. Can you send me some pics?
Absolutely! I'm at work at the moment but I can take anything and everything you want when I get home. I don't have the original box anymore though, just a heads up.
Sounds great, thanks! I'll check in this evening and have a look. Box isn't a dealbreaker. I'd like to see the overall condition of it, any issues, etc. wear and so on. Basic eBay posting type stuff. Four or five pictures is probably enough - don't need a ton.
Thanks!
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I have a type-S at home. I use the zealio planck for work. Typing on the hhkb still brings a smile to me; nothing like it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Keyboard received from blithen. It's awesome. Many thanks for a super simple and smooth sale.
Also, this thing is amazing. I get the hype. The hype is real. Seriously probably going to sell my Filco.
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If you're serious about wanting to buy one, I have a lightly used(read: 6ish months of daily driving) white printed capped HHKB I want to let go for cheap! I just have no use for it anymore and I'd like to get some money out of it. I'm thinking $130+shipping.
THIS IS STUPID CHEAP
BUY IT.
Cripes, seriously? $130 is considered cheap for an HHKB? I bought a PAIR of Lite2 blacks on eBay back in the early 2000's for $40, had no idea the market EXPLODED in the intervening decade and change.
Since then I've probably accumulated at least two more blacks and one white, I swear I didn't pay more than $40 for any of them...
Anyone want to trade for an SSK? That's what I really want, as functional as my HHKBs are, my fingers FLY on a Model M.
I should have started posting here a long time ago, we're all gonna be good friends. :)
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If you're serious about wanting to buy one, I have a lightly used(read: 6ish months of daily driving) white printed capped HHKB I want to let go for cheap! I just have no use for it anymore and I'd like to get some money out of it. I'm thinking $130+shipping.
THIS IS STUPID CHEAP
BUY IT.
Cripes, seriously? $130 is considered cheap for an HHKB? I bought a PAIR of Lite2 blacks on eBay back in the early 2000's for $40, had no idea the market EXPLODED in the intervening decade and change.
Since then I've probably accumulated at least two more blacks and one white, I swear I didn't pay more than $40 for any of them...
Anyone want to trade for an SSK? That's what I really want, as functional as my HHKBs are, my fingers FLY on a Model M.
I should have started posting here a long time ago, we're all gonna be good friends. :)
LITE HHKB's are not real HHKB's though and are just Rubberdome keyboards with a HHKB layout. The real Pro HHKB has Topre switches in it and Dyesub PBT keycaps hence the massive price difference. (New the Pro 2 HHKB even at it's now lower price is $200 US on the average.)
A Lite HHKB compared to the Pro is literally like comparing a Ford Fiesta to a Ferrari.
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Keyboard received from blithen. It's awesome. Many thanks for a super simple and smooth sale.
Also, this thing is amazing. I get the hype. The hype is real. Seriously probably going to sell my Filco.
Congratulations and welcome to the fold ;D
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LITE HHKB's are not real HHKB's though and are just Rubberdome keyboards with a HHKB layout.
Nonsense. Can this circlejerk stop?
HHKB Lite is about as real HHKB as any HHKB. Furthermore, all HHKBs are rubber domes. The Pro models are made by Topre and happen to use capacitive sensing, but the OG HHKB was a rubber dome over membrane made by Fujitsu; Lite models aren't particularly different, except they're made by Chicony for PFU.
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LITE HHKB's are not real HHKB's though and are just Rubberdome keyboards with a HHKB layout.
Nonsense. Can this circlejerk stop?
HHKB Lite is about as real HHKB as any HHKB. Furthermore, all HHKBs are rubber domes. The Pro models are made by Topre and happen to use capacitive sensing, but the OG HHKB was a rubber dome over membrane made by Fujitsu; Lite models aren't particularly different, except they're made by Chicony for PFU.
You know exactly what the hell he means.
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LITE HHKB's are not real HHKB's though and are just Rubberdome keyboards with a HHKB layout.
Nonsense. Can this circlejerk stop?
HHKB Lite is about as real HHKB as any HHKB. Furthermore, all HHKBs are rubber domes. The Pro models are made by Topre and happen to use capacitive sensing, but the OG HHKB was a rubber dome over membrane made by Fujitsu; Lite models aren't particularly different, except they're made by Chicony for PFU.
Apparently, you did not read the thread i was responding to in where someone was shocked $130 for a HHKB was considered a good deal. Hence the person did not understand the difference between the lite and Pro and why $130 for a Pro is a good deal.
Context aside, there is a rather large difference in feel and longevity between Rubberdomes in the Lite HHKB and Actual Topre inside the Pro models.
No need to get all angry over a keyboard thread.
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I almost got a lite2, from what I hear, the tactile action is nice, but the sound and feel of the keys is uber cheap.. Probably a great starting point for someone hesitant to drop 200+ on a HHKB pro.
I just went ahead and got the pro2 and I couldnt be happier, topre is so much more satisfying than my ducky shine 5 browns..
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No need to get all angry over a keyboard thread.
Attempt at emotional manipulation? Fail.
Apparently, you did not read the thread i was responding to in where someone was shocked $130 for a HHKB was considered a good deal. Hence the person did not understand the difference between the lite and Pro and why $130 for a Pro is a good deal.
Context aside, there is a rather large difference in feel and longevity between Rubberdomes in the Lite HHKB and Actual Topre inside the Pro models.
That's a poor "excuse" to make false claims.
You could have written, that HHKB Lite uses some worse technology/materials (that would be true) or feels worse (opinion, no problem with that). Instead, you chose to post something demonstrably false.
Here are some correct claims about the HHKB Lite 2:
It's made by Chicony. It's a rubber-dome-over-membrane keyboard, that requires bottoming out and has worse expected longevity compared to Topre switches. It has a metal plate, which makes it heavier than HHKB Pro. It has laser-etched ABS keycaps with integrated sliders. It has a slightly different layout compared to the respective version of HHKB Pro (e.g., ANSI version has physical arrow keys and an extra Fn key). It doesn't have a detachable cable. It's sold in Europe, unlike HHKB Pro.
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No need to get all angry over a keyboard thread.
Attempt at emotional manipulation? Fail.
Apparently, you did not read the thread i was responding to in where someone was shocked $130 for a HHKB was considered a good deal. Hence the person did not understand the difference between the lite and Pro and why $130 for a Pro is a good deal.
Context aside, there is a rather large difference in feel and longevity between Rubberdomes in the Lite HHKB and Actual Topre inside the Pro models.
That's a poor "excuse" to make false claims.
You could have written, that HHKB Lite uses some worse technology/materials (that would be true) or feels worse (opinion, no problem with that). Instead, you chose to post something demonstrably false.
Here are some correct claims about the HHKB Lite 2:
It's made by Chicony. It's a rubber-dome-over-membrane keyboard, that requires bottoming out and has worse expected longevity compared to Topre switches. It has a metal plate, which makes it heavier than HHKB Pro. It has laser-etched ABS keycaps with integrated sliders. It has a slightly different layout compared to the respective version of HHKB Pro (e.g., ANSI version has physical arrow keys and an extra Fn key). It doesn't have a detachable cable. It's sold in Europe, unlike HHKB Pro.
Ok?
I'm not sure what "false claim" I'm trying to cover up? The HHKB Lite really for all intensive purposes isn't a real HHKB IMO and i stand by that. A Ford Fiesta and Ford Mustang are both "Real Fords" by brand association. However one is a cheap turd and one is a sports car. The HHKB Lite is essentially for people who want the layout but either can't or won't spend what the Pro model costs,which whatever I'm not judging. But the keyboards are definitely both in entirely different leagues and not on the same even remote level.
Either way this is derailing the original intent of the thread at this point,and you missed the entire reason for my first post to even begin with.
To explain why to someone who thought $130 for a used Pro is indeed a good deal,when he remembers buying HHKB Lites for dirt cheap on ebay. The difference between them needed to be explained to put the prices into context.
Cheers
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Gentlemen..
(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Jesse-Pinkman-Walter-White-handshake.gif)
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I'm not sure what "false claim" I'm trying to cover up? The HHKB Lite really for all intensive purposes isn't a real HHKB IMO and i stand by that. A Ford Fiesta and Ford Mustang are both "Real Fords" by brand association. However one is a cheap turd and one is a sports car.
No true Scotsman
Besides, HHKB Lite is absolutely an HHKB not only because of PFU's branding, but because of the layout. If you're arguing, that Lite isn't "a true HHKB", how the original HHKB is an HHKB?
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I'm not sure what "false claim" I'm trying to cover up? The HHKB Lite really for all intensive purposes isn't a real HHKB IMO and i stand by that. A Ford Fiesta and Ford Mustang are both "Real Fords" by brand association. However one is a cheap turd and one is a sports car.
No true Scotsman
Besides, HHKB Lite is absolutely an HHKB not only because of PFU's branding, but because of the layout. If you're arguing, that Lite isn't "a true HHKB", how the original HHKB is an HHKB?
Ever wonder why it is you see a ton more HHKB Pro 2 models around the mech keyboard scene online? The first one was more about the layout than perfecting the board itself,though it did use Slightly higher quality rubberdomes with sliders(Sort of like how a BTC Dome with Sliders feels loads better than a 10$ Dell Rubberdome, the HHKB Lite IMO uses a cheap mushy feeling rubberdome). I get what you are saying here and I'd even say you have a point. But in today's mechanical Keyboard world when people say HHKB it's more or less automatically associated with a Pro/Pro2 Topre HHKB not a Rubberdome Lite or OG variant. There is after all a reason the popularity of the HHKB exploded once Topre was introduced into the board. The layout is a huge part of the HHKB however Custom Cherry boards also exist with the HHKB layout,part of what makes the HHKB what it is today and why it's so sought after is that layout combined with the high quality 45G Topre as opposed to a typical run of the mill rubberdome.
While i have no problem continuing this conversation with you i would ask should you wish to do so to PM me in efforts to stop derailing the thread from the OP topic. Or start a new thread along the lines of "Do you consider the HHKB Lite to be a real HHKB?" Would actually make for an interesting conversation within the community.
Otherwise, i guess we shall just agree to disagree and move on.
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Keyboard received from blithen. It's awesome. Many thanks for a super simple and smooth sale.
Also, this thing is amazing. I get the hype. The hype is real. Seriously probably going to sell my Filco.
Congrats. I have no boards but HHKBs in my house.
And nice deal for $130!
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No need to get all angry over a keyboard thread.
Attempt at emotional manipulation? Fail.
Apparently, you did not read the thread i was responding to in where someone was shocked $130 for a HHKB was considered a good deal. Hence the person did not understand the difference between the lite and Pro and why $130 for a Pro is a good deal.
Context aside, there is a rather large difference in feel and longevity between Rubberdomes in the Lite HHKB and Actual Topre inside the Pro models.
That's a poor "excuse" to make false claims.
You could have written, that HHKB Lite uses some worse technology/materials (that would be true) or feels worse (opinion, no problem with that). Instead, you chose to post something demonstrably false.
Here are some correct claims about the HHKB Lite 2:
It's made by Chicony. It's a rubber-dome-over-membrane keyboard, that requires bottoming out and has worse expected longevity compared to Topre switches. It has a metal plate, which makes it heavier than HHKB Pro. It has laser-etched ABS keycaps with integrated sliders. It has a slightly different layout compared to the respective version of HHKB Pro (e.g., ANSI version has physical arrow keys and an extra Fn key). It doesn't have a detachable cable. It's sold in Europe, unlike HHKB Pro.
Ok?
I'm not sure what "false claim" I'm trying to cover up? The HHKB Lite really for all intensive purposes isn't a real HHKB IMO and i stand by that. A Ford Fiesta and Ford Mustang are both "Real Fords" by brand association. However one is a cheap turd and one is a sports car.
Whoa whoa whoa. As an ST owner I'm offended. The Fiesta ST is a sports car ಠ_ಠ
And only the gt and the turbo mustang are sports cars. The v6 is a turd for bro's and tween's first car.
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Ever wonder why it is you see a ton more HHKB Pro 2 models around the mech keyboard scene online? (…) But in today's mechanical Keyboard world when people say HHKB it's more or less automatically associated with a Pro/Pro2 Topre HHKB not a Rubberdome Lite or OG variant. There is after all a reason the popularity of the HHKB exploded once Topre was introduced into the board. The layout is a huge part of the HHKB however Custom Cherry boards also exist with the HHKB layout,part of what makes the HHKB what it is today and why it's so sought after is that layout combined with the high quality 45G Topre as opposed to a typical run of the mill rubberdome.
It's also worth pointing out, that there's a world outside these few niche forums. One of the major influences in the HHKB design were Sun Type * keyboards, and there are plenty of *nix folks, that fancy the layout. We don't have PFU's sales figures to my knowledge, thus it's impossible to say, how it actually sells… I have, however, *seen* HHKB Lite in the wild among developers, that don't care about "mechanical" keyboards.
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Dayum I started a FIRE up in here.
PFU FTW FYI.
It says HHKB on the back, it's an HHKB.
Unless someone is cloning them, but here again if there was a quality SSK copy out there I'd type the keys off it.
(Then buy another).
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Dayum I started a FIRE up in here.
PFU FTW FYI.
It says HHKB on the back, it's an HHKB.
Unless someone is cloning them, but here again if there was a quality SSK copy out there I'd type the keys off it.
(Then buy another).
The disparity arose over the differences between the lite2 and the pro2, marketed by the same company but profoundly different in form, function, and price.. Pro2's are anywhere from 4-6 times the cost of what you can get a lite2 for I believe.
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Yes, regardless of the pedanticism going on in this thread, the HHKB that most everyone here is interested in is the Pro variant, hence the umbrella use of "HHKB." The HHKB Lite is not mechanical, even in the loosest sense of the term and a single HHKB Lite does not seem to be worth much more than the $40 you paid for two. $130 for an HHKB Pro is indeed a very decent deal.
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Glad to be corrected, still quite happy with my HHKBs even if they are cheapies.
The M is my jam when I'm looking to crank.
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The M is my jam when I'm looking to crank.
Then don't get started on an F ;)
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The HHKB Lite is not mechanical, even in the loosest sense of the term
Again wrong. >_<
This niche community has twisted the meaning of that word to something completely obscure.
Definition of mechanical in English:
mechanical
Pronunciation: /mɪˈkanɪk(ə)l/
adjective
(…)
3 Relating to physical forces or motion; physical:
"the smoothness was the result of mechanical abrasion"
3.1 archaic (Of a theory) explaining phenomena in terms only of physical processes.
3.2 archaic Relating to mechanics as a science.
Every rubber-dome keyboard is as mechanical as it gets, and it's used as the opposite of capacitive touchscreens and a-likes by the general population.
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I feel you are being excessively pedantic here, it is almost universally accepted that, at the very least, rubber dome over membrane keyboards (with integrated sliders, if you want to be specific, i.e. ****ty HP or Dell OEM keyboards) are most certainly not mechanical, no matter what connotation of "mechanical keyboard" one subscribes to.
I acknowledge that the term "mechanical" has been used to mean many different things in the context of keyboards, but this is a stretch. By your definition of the term, do you mean to say that literally every keyboard ever made is "mechanical"?
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Virtual keyboards (for touchscreens or gaze typing) aren't mechanical. Those projected "keyboards" aren't mechanical. Fingerworks TouchStream isn't mechanical. Those point-of-sale membrane keyboards with no domes/switches or keycaps probably aren't mechanical. LightIO isn't mechanical, because it uses optical sensing without any moving keys or anything like that.
The distinction isn't purely theoretical either. There's been, for example, some academic research, that compared "mechanical and non-mechanical keyboards", specifically keyboards with physical keys and large touchscreen keyboards (e.g., on an iPad) wrt their respective impact on hand strain.
Meanwhile, the local twisted definition is a mess too, because it ignores "moving parts" and draws artificial lines between different actuation technologies and specific materials used (e.g., a metal spring). Then, optical switches from Flaretech are less "mechanical" than Cherry MX, capacitive Topre switches are less "mechanical" than ordinary membrane with pressure actuation, IBM Model M is less "mechanical" than again Cherry MX etc.
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Okay, soon after I made my previous post I realized that I forgot to take into account "virtual" keyboards like those that are "flat" (for lack of a better word) membranes/touch capacitive or projected as you have mentioned. I concede that point and apologize for the hyperbole.
I maintain my position that "mechanical" has adopted a meaning beyond its literal denotation in the context of keyboards for the same reason the word "literally" has often been used as a superlative in recent years. Language is of course not static. The term "mechanical keyboard," whatever it eventually ends up meaning, has clearly grown beyond the bare dictionary definition. That distinction is why this community and others are here.
I am in no way a linguist though, so I welcome thoughts or criticism.
EDIT: On your third point: it seems that these arguments on how relatively "mechanical" a keyboard is predicated on whether one uses rubber domes and/or membranes (or optical switches, which I was previously unaware of, so TIL). Perhaps the best definition (in my view) of "mechanical keyboard" of the many suggested would be one that does not actuate at the bottom of a switch or mechanism's travel, like a rubber dome w/ pressure-actuated membrane. That definition would tidily include Topre switches and membrane buckling springs. A quick look at the DT wiki's definition of mechanical suggests this as well, though it shouldn't be taken as fact of course.
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The DT wiki says it all. (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Mechanical_keyboard)
A mechanical keyboard is a term usually used to categorize keyboards with high quality key switches. The term is sometimes defined as a keyboard that uses a switching mechanism which makes use of some sort of metal spring, or a switch that actuates at some point before the end of the switch's travel. These definitions are somewhat meaningless, given the huge variation in quality across different switch designs that have these properties. Consequently, some people prefer to use terms such as "high quality keyboards", or to refer to the keyboards by their specific switch type.
"Mechanical" keyboard is pure marketing beyond "moving parts". It makes nonsensical questions and hasty generalizations pop up:
- How does a mechanical keyboard feel?
- What are the benefits of a mechanical keyboard?
- Mechanical keyboards high quality, ergonomic,…
However, the range of key technology is so broad, that there's little to no common ground.
If you want an analogy, the concept of races in human categorization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_categorization)) is disputable in modern science, and its common uses are generally naïve/simplistic… and pretty much wrong.
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Y'all have sure gotten fired up about this. I'm just over here enjoying my new keyboard.
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Y'all have sure gotten fired up about this. I'm just over here enjoying my new keyboard.
I know right, I loved my HHKB from the moment I got it, but it seems I only like it more and more as Im using it.. Its just great.
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Y'all have sure gotten fired up about this. I'm just over here enjoying my new keyboard.
:) Glad you like the keyboard that much man! You were nothing but a pleasure to do a deal with, thanks a bunch!
(Now just don't get popcorn all over your board. ;) )
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Y'all have sure gotten fired up about this. I'm just over here enjoying my new keyboard.
:) Glad you like the keyboard that much man! You were nothing but a pleasure to do a deal with, thanks a bunch!
(Now just don't get popcorn all over your board. ;) )
Thanks, and likewise. If this were ebay I would leave you A+++++++++++++++ GR8 SELLER WILL BUY AGAIN feedback.
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Y'all have sure gotten fired up about this. I'm just over here enjoying my new keyboard.
Hhkb is serious ****ing business.
HHKB IS LIFE.
HHKB IS LOVE.
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For me, the PFU HHKB Pro 2 provides the best characteristics of keyboards to be found in one package:
+ 60% form factor
+ HHKB layout
+ Topre switches
+ Beautiful dye-sublimated PBT keycaps
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For me, the PFU HHKB Pro 2 provides the best characteristics of keyboards to be found in one package:
+ 60% form factor
+ HHKB layout
+ Topre switches
+ Beautiful dye-sublimated PBT keycaps
The only faults i can really find with the HHKB Pro 2 subjectively are the following
- USB Hub is useless and powers near nothing..while at the same time taking extra power to power it making the board not work stock with many tablets etc.
- Topre due to its inherent lack of switch options can over long usage periods get a bit boring at times. However changing back and forth to other switches and coming back to it makes you really appreciate it a bit more.
Asides from that, however, it really is my favorite keyboard with the only close runner up being my Backlit Pok3r with MX Clears and BSP PBT caps.
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It seems that the biggest problem is that I'm going to have to buy a black one too. I can't choose one over the other, I don't think. But, for now, I'm glad to have the white one, because the new key layout would be pretty damn tough I think without being able to read the keys easily.
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@Ciemnika: I prefer the black case, so I bought a black HHKB Pro 2 and put the white keycaps on it. Later, I switched the modifiers to blank black and blue alphanumeric keycaps with black legends from a Topre Realforce keycap set. For a bit of accent color, I use a blank red Esc and a red arrow key for Fn.
On another HHKB Pro 2, I installed 55g domes from a RF donor board (which now has the 45g domes from the HH board). However, I prefer the 45g domes in the HHKB.
I like the downstroke thock of Topre switches, but I don't like the return stroke clack, so I have installed silencing rings on all my Topre-switch keyboards. I also lube the stabilizers and switch rails with Superlube oil.
These are just some thoughts on some things you might wish to try with your HHKB.
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@Ciemnika: I prefer the black case, so I bought a black HHKB Pro 2 and put the white keycaps on it. Later, I switched the modifiers to blank black and blue alphanumeric keycaps with black legends from a Topre Realforce keycap set. For a bit of accent color, I use a blank red Esc and a red arrow key for Fn.
On another HHKB Pro 2, I installed 55g domes from a RF donor board (which now has the 45g domes from the HH board). However, I prefer the 45g domes in the HHKB.
I like the downstroke thock of Topre switches, but I don't like the return stroke clack, so I have installed silencing rings on all my Topre-switch keyboards. I also lube the stabilizers and switch rails with Superlube oil.
These are just some thoughts on some things you might wish to try with your HHKB.
All great thoughts! I think I will probably keep the little white one just stock for now. I really enjoy it like it is. May supplement with a black one. I'm honestly really intrigued by the Japanese model, and may grab one of those. The only customization I can really see myself doing for now is replacing the ABS space with a PBT one, especially because Massdrop is running a PBT Topre spacebar buy right now. All of the rest of my stuff is black, and I really like everything to be black, but for some reason, the sort of old-school white/gray of this contraption works for me.
I've heard people talk about the clack on the upstroke, but I don't really hear it. Maybe it's just the way that I type?
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@Ciemnika: I prefer the black case, so I bought a black HHKB Pro 2 and put the white keycaps on it. Later, I switched the modifiers to blank black and blue alphanumeric keycaps with black legends from a Topre Realforce keycap set. For a bit of accent color, I use a blank red Esc and a red arrow key for Fn.
On another HHKB Pro 2, I installed 55g domes from a RF donor board (which now has the 45g domes from the HH board). However, I prefer the 45g domes in the HHKB.
I like the downstroke thock of Topre switches, but I don't like the return stroke clack, so I have installed silencing rings on all my Topre-switch keyboards. I also lube the stabilizers and switch rails with Superlube oil.
These are just some thoughts on some things you might wish to try with your HHKB.
All great thoughts! I think I will probably keep the little white one just stock for now. I really enjoy it like it is. May supplement with a black one. I'm honestly really intrigued by the Japanese model, and may grab one of those. The only customization I can really see myself doing for now is replacing the ABS space with a PBT one, especially because Massdrop is running a PBT Topre spacebar buy right now. All of the rest of my stuff is black, and I really like everything to be black, but for some reason, the sort of old-school white/gray of this contraption works for me.
I've heard people talk about the clack on the upstroke, but I don't really hear it. Maybe it's just the way that I type?
I definitely notice the clack however for me i enjoy it, I've heard silenced HHKB's and to me it sounds like they lack a soul. Everyone is a bit different on what they prefer though but there definitely is a noticeable difference if you watch a video or two comparing them.
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I'm not touching or silencing mine either. HHKB is perfect as is in terms of mechanics IMO.
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I'm not touching or silencing mine either. HHKB is perfect as is in terms of mechanics IMO.
look.
i was a huge advocate of stock hhkb.
i preached it like no other. and to an extent, still believe it.
but o-ring silencing and lubing? holy ****. completely different keyboard.
i am a believer.
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I'm not touching or silencing mine either. HHKB is perfect as is in terms of mechanics IMO.
look.
i was a huge advocate of stock hhkb.
i preached it like no other. and to an extent, still believe it.
but o-ring silencing and lubing? holy ****. completely different keyboard.
i am a believer.
Two things:
1. I genuinely like the feel of stock, and would not change it unless I tried a modded board first.
2. After botching my first silencing job on a NT, I won't open another topre board up to complete the operation. I might consider purchasing a modified HHKB or paying somebody to do it for me, but I no touchy.
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what part of the OC are you in?
i will let you borrow my hhkb so u can feel the difference.
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I'm not touching or silencing mine either. HHKB is perfect as is in terms of mechanics IMO.
look.
i was a huge advocate of stock hhkb.
i preached it like no other. and to an extent, still believe it.
but o-ring silencing and lubing? holy ****. completely different keyboard.
i am a believer.
great, just what I needed to hear... Off to make some purchases.. grr....
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I'm not touching or silencing mine either. HHKB is perfect as is in terms of mechanics IMO.
look.
i was a huge advocate of stock hhkb.
i preached it like no other. and to an extent, still believe it.
but o-ring silencing and lubing? holy ****. completely different keyboard.
i am a believer.
great, just what I needed to hear... Off to make some purchases.. grr....
i sold my type s for this very reason.
nothing is touching my pro2, at all. it's perfect.
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Santa Ana (a good part, not the ghetto)
Tempting offer, but I'm scared I will actually like it.
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lmao, you know you from the OC when you gotta explain to people you're from the good part of santa ana.
TIL there is a good part of santa ana.
either way, lmk. im not far and i like driving (well when i get my car back. hell if im taking this sonic anywhere) so i can drop it off.
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lmao, you know you from the OC when you gotta explain to people you're from the good part of santa ana.
TIL there is a good part of santa ana.
either way, lmk. im not far and i like driving (well when i get my car back. hell if im taking this sonic anywhere) so i can drop it off.
You closer to Marina del Rey? That is where my HHKB is.
Either case, I can meet you someplace if preferable. For gods sake, you are the one doing me a favor.
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lmao, you know you from the OC when you gotta explain to people you're from the good part of santa ana.
TIL there is a good part of santa ana.
either way, lmk. im not far and i like driving (well when i get my car back. hell if im taking this sonic anywhere) so i can drop it off.
You closer to Marina del Rey? That is where my HHKB is.
Either case, I can meet you someplace if preferable. For gods sake, you are the one doing me a favor.
im like 15 mins from marina del rey. i actually ride my bike there.
and nah it's cool. i REALLY like driving.
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Demik, I sent PM for date. White wine ok?
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dont let my gf see this >.> she's been trying to get me to drink wine :P
but yah, replied!
tbh i MIGHT run another hhkb tour after u so ppl can experience this board lubed/silenced.
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From OP getting the HHKB after a stupidly good deal, to a heated argument whether this or that is considered a 'real' HHKB, to a HHKB tour (with wine? #bromance), this was a good thread to read.
You know what's even better? I'm typing this all on my HHKB Pro 2 Type-S. Cheers for the cup rubber!
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Someone makes disparaging remark about HHKB, thread explodes, but surprisingly no-one got banned this time.
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dont let my gf see this >.> she's been trying to get me to drink wine :P
but yah, replied!
tbh i MIGHT run another hhkb tour after u so ppl can experience this board lubed/silenced.
I won't have it long, just want to do side by side with Pro2 to see if I like it. Not sure what I do if I actually do like it, but I i'll worry about that if it happens.
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Someone makes disparaging remark about HHKB, thread explodes, but surprisingly no-one got banned this time.
People have been banned over keyboard conversastions in the past? :eek:
So much cray..
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Yeah, I wasn't here to see such a thing for myself. Did it involve Ripster (or someone like him)? :P