geekhack
geekhack Marketplace => Great Finds => Topic started by: ch_123 on Sun, 03 January 2010, 08:20:54
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Link (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Chicony-KB-5191-FCC-ID-E8H5IKKB-5191-Keyboard_W0QQitemZ120512158160QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20100101?IMSfp=TL100101016009r9939#ht_3487wt_1167)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/3/1/2/8/1/7/webimg/316380633_tp.jpg)
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Are these the Cherry copies model, or the Monterrey switch?
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Can't remember. In fact, one of the Chiconys can have the Montereys OR the Cherry clones depending on which one you get.
Such are the joys of 80/90s Japanese keyboards.
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I've already got the Cherry copies...so I'm only concerned with finding one with Monterrey's.
The auction shows it's the Cherry copies.
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http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=8316
Yeah, they're white copies. I haven't heard anything too flattering about these switches, but I got one cause, well, gotta catch 'em all!
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I realized that I confused the fake Cherrys with the round SMK switches. The head**** continues...
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I realized that I confused the fake Cherrys with the round SMK switches. The head**** continues...
I think the round SMKs are better. But the fake Cherries at least seem to be better than black ALPS.
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Sometimes I think rubber domes would be better than black Alps...
I wonder if the SMKs are electrically compatible with the Cherrys... It would be interesting to make a Filco out of them.
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Sometimes I think rubber domes would be better than black Alps...
I wonder if the SMKs are electrically compatible with the Cherrys... It would be interesting to make a Filco out of them.
I'm not sure, but they are keycap compatible.
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So... as I understand it, if these have 'fake cherries' or whatever switches they have, are they clicky as well as tactile?
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Cherry Switches (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fpark16.wakwak.com%2F~ex4%2Fkb%2Ftech_cherry_mx.htm&langpair=ja|en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)
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So... as I understand it, if these have 'fake cherries' or whatever switches they have, are they clicky as well as tactile?
Yes.
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Anyone know about the keys? If double-shot, they'd make nice swap fodder.
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Anyone know about the keys? If double-shot, they'd make nice swap fodder.
They aren't double-shot, but they are coated pad-printed.
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Bleah. I'll keep looking for a black G80 of some type for a swap.
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I've got a red double-shot Esc key that was made in Taiwan.
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=6999&stc=1&d=1262609278)
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Well, for the price it seemed worth snagging, so in a few days I'll see just how good/bad/meh this board is. I don't have any Cherry MX boards or complicated white Alps yet, so this will have to do for a little bit.
player.kbd_total++;
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Well, for the price it seemed worth snagging, so in a few days I'll see just how good/bad/meh this board is. I don't have any Cherry MX boards or complicated white Alps yet, so this will have to do for a little bit.
player.kbd_total++;
It's fake MX, but it's pleasant enough to type on. Just a bit stiffer than the MX blues.
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so I'm only concerned with finding one with Monterrey's.
Cheap Monterey Switches (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360221761306&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT) but have to be quick, only 5 hrs to go, but seller keeps relisting these one at a time.
Whoever won the above New Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Sliders) will be a happy bunny, my only regret is that I posted it here and not got another.
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Got this keyboard in the mail today. First, my initial impressions: This keyboard is cheap. Cheap, cheap, cheap. The cherry clones seem to be plagued with a naggingly inconsistent feel. When slowly depressing each key to actuation, I notice a large disparity between the force curves from key to key. Some of them are a bit lighter, with a short, smooth tactile bump. Other keys fight back a bit more, and it's pretty noticable. Hopefully, this is due to the keyboard sitting in a box for 19 years and not a design feature.
When I remove the outer case, the first thing I notice is the PCB: It reminds me of a stale saltine cracker. It's thin and dry, and is composed of mostly wheat flour and salt. It's so thin and bendy that it actually aids in dampening each keystroke. More on that later. The PCB construction is so cheap that It bends to almost a half-circle with nothing but gravity. I could be wrong about it being brittle, though. It might be discovered that the 5191 PCB has no proportional elastic limit. It might actually be possible to bend this keyboard into any number of ergonomic positions. Unfortunately, until I know that, I'll begrudgingly accept the idea that it will break simply by breathing on it. Oh, and the fake cherry switches are barely mounted on the PCB! It's really a sight to behold. However, It's an exhausting process trying to remove keycaps without seeing the switch shift around, coming ever so close to ripping away from the PCB. Other than that, the construction is pretty good. I really like the profile-view, the design of the case, and the "On Line" power light, which is cool only because it's useless 99.9% of the time.
Now, for just a second, I'm going to judge this keyboard solely on the typing experience: It's phenomenal. The cheapness of the PCB, combined with the "sandwich" construction add to the springy feel of the keyboard as a whole. In essence, the keyboard acts like a leaf spring. It really, really does. The force of each keystroke radiates from your fingers, down in the PCB, and throughout the length and breadth of the entire machine. Truth be told, it's almost as if this cheap little man-made machine succeeds in imbuing organic qualities. I think of it less like a keyboard and more like an avacado, a palm tree, or a deep-sea trench. Typing is pleasant, especially when you really get kicking at 40wpm+. it's not awkward or fake-feeling. The force curve is just about right. It's smooth, the resistance builds up very evenly until you hit the top of the curve, then it clicks and the force drops slightly before shooting back up again. By time time you near the bottom, the force peaks and it pushes your finger back up. It's REALLY easy to avoid bottoming out on this keyboard, almost effortless.
Sound-wise, I like it more than a blue cherry g80 and less than a buckling spring. Like the BS, these Clones have 2 distinct clicks: a high-pitched, but muffled click on the downstroke and a lower, softer click on the up. it's almost identical to the "tick, tock" that comes from an old metronome or wall clock. Once again, very familiar and pleasant.
These are just my initial impressions, and they may change after a few weeks on this thing. I'm a pretty cynical guy, and it's not often that i'm impressed by anything for any reason. It might just be due the alcohol in my liver, the hydrogen in my veins, or the radium in my wrist watch- but i've got a good feeling about this keyboard. a nice, warm feeling. YMMV.
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What a phenomenal review. I want to type on that board, feel its experience.
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What a phenomenal review. I want to type on that board, feel its experience.
tyvm.
At the risk of sounding hyperbolic, the Chicony KB-5191 is better than 800 billion dollars and a lifetime of no-strings sex with natalie portman and the young zelda fitzgerald on your own private jet.
Then again, it's all subjective.
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At the risk of sounding hyperbolic, the Chicony KB-5191 is better than 800 billion dollars and a lifetime of no-strings sex with natalie portman and the young zelda fitzgerald on your own private jet.
The keyboard has Beam Springs?
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The keyboard has Beam Springs?
No, it's a keyboard that has a cheap case with cheap knock-off switches that is surprisingly nice to type on.
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tyvm.
At the risk of sounding hyperbolic, the Chicony KB-5191 is better than 800 billion dollars and a lifetime of no-strings sex with natalie portman and the young zelda fitzgerald on your own private jet.
Then again, it's all subjective.
Son, your priorities are all f*cked up.
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Son, your priorities are all f*cked up.
well it's not really my choice. see, my parents were like, really mean to me. This is how I cope.
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Why would she ever go out again once she got a Chicony?
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Why would she ever go out again once she got a Chicony?
Because she hadn't met me, yet.
... Right...
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Got a Chicony too today btw. It's a 5182 though. Also it doesn't exactly look new. And it was only 2€. So I guess I can't die in peace just yet.
Feels surprisingly good though. Something alpsy with blue stems. Don't dare calling them blue ALPS yet, as i'm a total newbie to alpsology.
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Got a Chicony too today btw. It's a 5182 though. Also it doesn't exactly look new. And it was only 2€. So I guess I can't die in peace just yet.
Feels surprisingly good though. Something alpsy with blue stems. Don't dare calling them blue ALPS yet, as i'm a total newbie to alpsology.
They should be the UK version of the KB-5181 with blue Monterey Switches.
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despite the cutcorners construction and shoddy materials used, this is one of the most attractive keyboards i have, from the outside at least.
I really like the "separator bars" between the sets of function keys, and how they create a beveled edge around the keys. It's very modernist. I think it (keep in mind that i'm only talking about he top half of the case) would look perfectly at home on a brand new keyboard.
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I finally received mine today. I suppose the guy decided to send it out via the slowest possible method while also waiting a week. Truly amazing how long it took to get here!
Just parroting what others have said; it's remarkably flimsy, although you hardly notice when it's sitting on a firm surface... aside from the occasional flex of the board as you're hammering out some posts ;) It has a distinctly "cheap" feel that is in stark contrast to the steel+plastic behemoths I'm usually piloting. Although... there's something really 'light' and airy about the keyswitches that makes it seriously fun to type on. My only significant complaint lies in the L-shaped keyboard that causes me to miss ~50% of my backspace throws. As long as I don't screw up, it's a neat keyboard to type on.
I was hoping to keep this in the closet in perfect condition, box and all, but my box arrived in hopelessly trashed condition, so I guess I'm gonna toss it and just keep the board. Who the hell ships a keyboard via media mail?! Seriously?
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Did you get the one with the complicated Blue Alps?
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Sadly, no.
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White Complicated then?
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Oh right. These keyboards seem to cycle from Cherry to Alps, and from Alps to Cherry in no particular order.
I'm not sure if I'd like a stiffer Cherry Blue. The lightness of the Blues is what works for them best.
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Looks like cherry white clones on mine. Tactile, clicky, and pretty light. I might drag out some coinage and do some measurements tomorrow.
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I wonder how this would fare with "real" brown springs.... :happy::happy:
:yo: Anyone wanna sell me roughly 101 brown switches? I had a bunch but one of them broke, so i had to throw out the whole set :Cry:
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I wonder how this would fare with "real" brown springs.... :happy::happy:
:yo: Anyone wanna sell me roughly 101 brown switches? I had a bunch but one of them broke, so i had to throw out the whole set :Cry:
Hate to put a damper in your enthusiasm, but I'm not sure the fake cherry switches are electrically and physically compatible with the real Cherry switches.
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also, be aware not all 5191's have fake cherry switches, some have futabas which are crap. keycaps are mx compatible, though.
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Looks like cherry white clones on mine. Tactile, clicky, and pretty light. I might drag out some coinage and do some measurements tomorrow.
The Chicony KB-5191 sucks compared with the KB-5181 which uses Blue SMK Monterey key switches. I'm pretty sure the ione Scorpius-32 numeric keypad uses clear fake Cherries. The keys click, but they are inferior to genuine Cherry MX Blues.
The plastics on the 5181 may be cheap, but the metal plate mounted Monterey switches are pure joy to type one. This has to be one of the most underrated vintage keyboards of all time.
The KB -5181 looks unremarkable but the switches feel like a combination between buckling springs (clicks on both the down stroke and return) and complicated ALPS (sharper tactile response than ALPS). Not to mention the fact that the bright green LEDs cheer me up!
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The extra "online" LED offends my delicate sensibilities... heh. I don't even use numlock as I don't like having the green light distracting me while I geek out.
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I like it more than my used monterey. Need a NIB one for a reals comparison.
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Futaba switches are the inverse of Cherry regarding key interfacing...the key is "male", the slider is "female".
futabas are also available in mx compatible form. these are the ones i've seen on 5191's.
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Delicate. Delicate. Be gentle when disassembling and reassembling these things because they're really, really crappy. I bent the leaf during reassembly somehow. It was a quick fix, but only because I have very steady hands. With only a glance at the internals, you can see that the cheapness doesn't stop with the pcb. First off, the tolerances between the stem, top housing, and bottom housing are huge. There's a lot of "wiggle room". The entire setup looks like it was carved with a pocketknife. Any real cherry switch looks like a swiss timepiece in comparison.
I would go so far to say that the switch was whittled by hand.
if you look at it that way, the KB-5191 is a fascinating piece of folk art. I can appreciate that.
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7312&stc=1&d=1263432957)
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7311&stc=1&d=1263432957)
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7310&stc=1&d=1263432957)
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Like a shoddy handmade guitar carried by some depression-era bluesman, I think this board has a lot of soul.
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but I'm not sure the fake cherry switches are electrically and physically compatible with the real Cherry switches.
This type of fake cherry is pin-to-pin compatible with Cherry MX.
I once pulled whole fakes from same 5191 and replanted MX Blacks.
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Heh heh... yeah, those fake white switches feel super chintzy. I forgot to do a key force measurement last night. There's something oddly special about the board; it's just really fun to type on. Meanwhile, my M13 sits on the table across the room waiting patiently to get back into the action. It knows the Chicony is a passing fling ;)
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Gonna bump this one last time (hopefully). Since someone asked earlier, I used the RipOmeter to test this particular board. The fake white cherries actuate between 50 and 55 grams. There doesn't seem to be any pattern to how much weight the keys take to actuate. I'm guessing the crappy build quality is at play here more than anything.
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Anybody tried putting this switches in Cherry boards? I'll keep one as is and order more to harvest switches, as I have not seen any clicky cherries for under $50. I think putting this in Compaq MX11800 will be my next project.
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Mine arrived today, definitely a great keyboard for $15 to put on the guest PC instead of a rubber-dome Keytronic.
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Anybody tried putting this switches in Cherry boards? I'll keep one as is and order more to harvest switches, as I have not seen any clicky cherries for under $50. I think putting this in Compaq MX11800 will be my next project.
I don't know if that's a good idea. I've got a sinking feelin that your swap will result in both of the keyboards losing their essence.
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Seller relisted:
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Chicony-KB-5191-FCC-ID-E8H5IKKB-5191-Keyboard_W0QQitemZ120539949877QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_Mice_Trackballs?hash=item1c10bdab35 (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Chicony-KB-5191-FCC-ID-E8H5IKKB-5191-Keyboard_W0QQitemZ120539949877QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_Mice_Trackballs?hash=item1c10bdab35)
I now have 3 :)
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Can someone buy one for me and ship it overseas? :)
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I'd buy a few more of these fer long-term storage, but damn that small backspacemight be a dealbreaker. Those things drive me nuts.
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I'd buy a few more of these fer long-term storage, but damn that small backspacemight be a dealbreaker. Those things drive me nuts.
You can switch backspace with capslock. I've done it when I switched from QWERTY to COLEMAK layout, but it works well even with QWERTY, and on keyboard like this it's the only way to go.
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You can switch backspace with capslock. I've done it when I switched from QWERTY to COLEMAK layout, but it works well even with QWERTY, and on keyboard like this it's the only way to go.
Yea, but that involves AHK or registry tweaking which is hardly worth the time. I rotate 2-3 keyboards a day, and I like them with US layout.
I'm just lazy is all.
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Yea, but that involves AHK or registry tweaking which is hardly worth the time. I rotate 2-3 keyboards a day, and I like them with US layout.
I'm just lazy is all.
If you download COLEMAK installation zip, it comes with registry file that just sets the caps lock to do the backspace. I think it's a much better use of that key regardless of keyboard layout unless you like to type IN ALL CAPS, LOL
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I just scored a NIB 5181 with the blue Monterey switches for $25 shipped total.
Seller must have a bunch of them, as he listed another:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130375257292
Hooked up the 5191 tonight, it's a great cheap beater board.
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These are still being listed. I just purchased two of these because I wasn't aware of the fake switches. that's what I get for not consulting geekhack before any purchase.
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Chicony-KB-5191-FCC-ID-E8H5IKKB-5191-Keyboard-/310238348603?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Chicony-KB-5191-FCC-ID-E8H5IKKB-5191-Keyboard-/310238348603?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs)
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What were you expecting in them? I've just read some interesting things about this and at that price I had to give it a shot along with the 5181 (which is awesome). I bought one from that seller a couple weeks ago and its still roaming the US. STUPID FLAT RATE SHIPPING! Apparently it went from Vegas to Bell, CA where it sat for a couple days and next thing you know its in Springfield, MA. Now back in Bell again, but no telling when it'll make it to Los Angeles.
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I had marked that they had blues as per sandy55's website, not realizing the switch variation within a single model.
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I'm using Chicony KB-5191 for a third month now. It's my all time favorite - tactile, very light, precise and clicky. My fingers get tired after using buckling spring and alps, but not with this Chicony.
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Do these Chicony KB-5191 keyboards have NKRO?
EDIT: Also, does the KB-5181 have NKRO? The 5181 has monterey switches right?
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I just scored a NIB 5181 with the blue Monterey switches.
Great score, its' a very underrated keyboard.
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Yeah, I think the secret is officially out on Blue Monterey boards. They used to get overlooked but not so much now. I have 3 different types of boards with them and all are great to type on.
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It looks that way, but I don't have any that have dead switches, unlike other boards. Not sure why but they seem to hold up pretty well.
After seeing your pic in the past, I decided not to open the switches though :) They dont' look easy to reassemble.
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I think Rube Goldberg may have assisted in monterey switch design. I love their feel though.
(http://www.antiquehelper.com/auctionimages/44665t.jpg)
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Re: NKRO - The Chicony 5181 does not have NKRO however has very favorable roll-over characteristics. I could not get it to block and reasonable combinations when I was using it a lot.
Yep, I love the board, my friend uses two of them one at home one at work (supplied by myself) and I have 2 in reserve for a rainy day. There era of the cheap 5181 is officially over.
There is another used one $25 shipped here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-CHICONY-KB-5181-Clicky-Keyboard-Blue-Sliders-/360289698045?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs#ht_1515wt_932
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Good find on that ebay board.
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If possible, if someone who has this keyboard (and has an fps game) could try side-strafing while using it, it would be a good rollover test for gaming. Best would be to try wa+alt, wd+alt, sa+alt, sd+alt, and any of those combinations substituting space for alt. Would be helpful info!
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I don't have one, but I'd be willing to bet money that these things are 2KRO... Not the sort of keyboard that they'd go the extra mile with diodes...
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I got my 5181 from that vendor. They're not that clean and are broken-in and shiny. It still works great. He knows which are blue ALPS (a.k.a. Monterey). I suspect that the vendor bought a large quanity of these from a business that was closing.
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Are SMK switches still made? I think it would be neat if a modern company started building them with Cherry MX compatible base and a bit tougher construction.
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Today I got a couple of "Future technologie" branded Chicony KB-5191 Revision B (this can be found written on the inner side of the right leg, where the AT/XT switch is). Inside it says the years 1988 on the plastics and 1989 on the PCB. It's also interesting to note the only difference between the 2 keyboards I got: one has a 8049 controller, while the other one has 9048 - too lazy to check it, but I assume they must be interchangeable, so no real difference between the 2 keyboards. This is my first Cherry switches keyboard, so they felt pretty light compared to ALPS. Then I check here and see that they are in fact fake Cherrys... OR ARE THEY?!? What I see here is blue Cherry MX with Cherry logo on them and all the features of the switch look exactly like on the pictures of real Cherrys. Also, on the PCB it says "CHERRY SW". So maybe the revision letter tells what switches the keyboard has - Sandy55's white fake cherrys is Rev. A.
Later I will test this real Cherry keyboard as a typing keyboard (indeed looks very promising for typing), but unfortunately it is a 2kro anti-ghosting board and is not suited to the game I play.
If possible, if someone who has this keyboard (and has an fps game) could try side-strafing while using it, it would be a good rollover test for gaming. Best would be to try wa+alt, wd+alt, sa+alt, sd+alt, and any of those combinations substituting space for alt. Would be helpful info!
All of those combos work. In fact you can press A+W+D+ctrl+alt+shift+space+tab and A+S+D+ctrl+alt+shift+space+tab just fine (tested with Aquakeytest).
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Yep. I need a NKRO or NKRO-moddable(non-blocking) cherry black or brown for gaming.