geekhack

geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: Air tree on Mon, 18 July 2016, 12:58:10

Title: Democratic National Convention (Previously RNC Thread)
Post by: Air tree on Mon, 18 July 2016, 12:58:10
Anyone else catching this likely **** show? I'm sure somebody will be saying stupid ****, it's just a matter of time.




EDIT: Democratic national convention time in just a few short days.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Porkins on Mon, 18 July 2016, 13:16:51
Ted Cruz is threatening to have all the delegates loyal to him walk out at the last minute, leaving a bunch of empty seats to make Trump look bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 18 July 2016, 15:02:37
It can't be any worse than the Libertarian convention.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Air tree on Mon, 18 July 2016, 15:27:32
It can't be any worse than the Libertarian convention.
We can't rule anything out!

It's just getting good now!  ^-^
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Waateva on Mon, 18 July 2016, 15:38:18
It'll be a good time, that's for sure. 

Also, the news coverage on it made me realize that Trump and Pence are almost exactly the same skin color, so they must be made for each other!
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 18 July 2016, 16:47:38
http://www.theverge.com/2016/7/18/12213524/stephen-colbert-rnc-2016-donald-trump-hunger-games
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: SBJ on Tue, 19 July 2016, 00:10:20
http://www.theverge.com/2016/7/18/12213524/stephen-colbert-rnc-2016-donald-trump-hunger-games
Legend!
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: nugglets on Tue, 19 July 2016, 03:50:02
https://mobile.twitter.com/mikehearn/status/755260215021432832
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: katushkin on Tue, 19 July 2016, 10:36:40
Melania Trump's speech tho  :))
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: demik on Tue, 19 July 2016, 10:40:29
My wife has good words. The best words.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 19 July 2016, 11:36:04
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/07/19/melania-trump-republican-convention-speech-plagiarism/87278088/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/07/19/melania-trump-republican-convention-speech-plagiarism/87278088/)
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Waateva on Tue, 19 July 2016, 11:45:58
My wife has good words. The best words.

When Michelle Obama says them they're bad words.  Really just the worst.  But when my wife says them?  They're the best words.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Tue, 19 July 2016, 11:53:45
My wife has good words. The best words.

The best words, Believe me, believe me, the best.  :D

Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 19 July 2016, 14:48:54
Although it was survived worse, there is no way that speech written to reflect positively on the Trump campaign. We were Rick-Rolled ^-^

Quote from: Melania Trump
“He will never, ever give up. And, most importantly, he will never, ever let you down.”

Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: demik on Tue, 19 July 2016, 14:57:06
Now he's denying it and blaming it on Clinton.

This man has supporters. A lot of them. Holy ****.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 19 July 2016, 15:15:45
Now he's denying it and blaming it on Clinton.


You just haven't figured it out. Michelle Obama time-travelled to the future, read Melania's speech, and took it back to the past to use it herself.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/07/19/paul-manafort-blames-hillary-clinton-for-melania-trump-speech-plagiarism-allegation/
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 19 July 2016, 16:03:59
The main theme so far seems to be that you should live in fear in America and the Democrats are the worst.

Fear is an amazing motivator.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Air tree on Wed, 20 July 2016, 22:24:55
Cruz came out saying "Vote your conscience" is the best thing ever.

I hate that slimy bastard, but I love him for creating an entertaining speech.  :))
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 21 July 2016, 03:38:04
This convention is such a ****show.

The whole GOP campaign is like a clown car of derp. Every time you think the campaign couldn’t get any stupider or more ridiculous, because come on this isn’t a comedy skit, it manages to outdo itself. Can they really fit more than 40 clowns in there? Tune in tomorrow to find out.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 21 July 2016, 07:33:56
I am really getting sick of hearing (sane) people calling Trump a "sociopath" when he is clearly a psychopath.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath (https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath)
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Waateva on Thu, 21 July 2016, 08:33:13
Cruz came out saying "Vote your conscience" is the best thing ever.

I hate that slimy bastard, but I love him for creating an entertaining speech.  :))

I'd honestly rather have Trump than Cruz though, as Cruz has the whole Evangelical-nutjob aspect to him that Trump lacks.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 21 July 2016, 08:41:51

I'd honestly rather have Trump than Cruz though, as Cruz has the whole Evangelical-nutjob aspect to him that Trump lacks.

I agree. Everything that is wrong with Trump is wrong with Cruz, plus that. Cruz just knows what to hide.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/jimmy-carter-donald-trump-ted-cruz-218707 (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/jimmy-carter-donald-trump-ted-cruz-218707)


Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Waateva on Thu, 21 July 2016, 09:13:03

I'd honestly rather have Trump than Cruz though, as Cruz has the whole Evangelical-nutjob aspect to him that Trump lacks.

I agree. Everything that is wrong with Trump is wrong with Cruz, plus that. Cruz just knows what to hide.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/jimmy-carter-donald-trump-ted-cruz-218707 (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/jimmy-carter-donald-trump-ted-cruz-218707)

Having been raised by them, the Evangelical Christian camp of the far-right scares me a ton.  I still love and work in an area that has an extremely high number of them, and the **** that comes out of their mouths on a regular basis is pretty frightening.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Thu, 21 July 2016, 09:29:58

I'd honestly rather have Trump than Cruz though, as Cruz has the whole Evangelical-nutjob aspect to him that Trump lacks.

I agree. Everything that is wrong with Trump is wrong with Cruz, plus that. Cruz just knows what to hide.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/jimmy-carter-donald-trump-ted-cruz-218707 (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/jimmy-carter-donald-trump-ted-cruz-218707)

Having been raised by them, the Evangelical Christian camp of the far-right scares me a ton.  I still love and work in an area that has an extremely high number of them, and the **** that comes out of their mouths on a regular basis is pretty frightening.

Im a Christian through and through and they scare me too..  In fact, many Christians actively speak against the hateful rhetoric that seems to come from the extremist right..  Of course, that doesnt make the news..
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: demik on Thu, 21 July 2016, 09:35:19
Cruz came out saying "Vote your conscience" is the best thing ever.

I hate that slimy bastard, but I love him for creating an entertaining speech.  :))

I'd honestly rather have Trump than Cruz though, as Cruz has the whole Evangelical-nutjob aspect to him that Trump lacks.

Uh. Ted Cruz 2020. He is now okay with all religions!

That pandering ****

http://www.bustle.com/articles/173960-this-ted-cruz-rnc-speech-quote-about-diversity-freedom-is-totally-unexpected
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 21 July 2016, 09:45:47

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/jimmy-carter-donald-trump-ted-cruz-218707 (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/jimmy-carter-donald-trump-ted-cruz-218707)

In fact, many Christians actively speak against the hateful rhetoric that seems to come from the extremist right.

Of course, that doesnt make the news..

Well, at least it did when Jimmy Carter said it in front of the House of Lords in England earlier this year.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Thu, 21 July 2016, 09:51:30

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/jimmy-carter-donald-trump-ted-cruz-218707 (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/jimmy-carter-donald-trump-ted-cruz-218707)

In fact, many Christians actively speak against the hateful rhetoric that seems to come from the extremist right.

Of course, that doesnt make the news..

Well, at least it did when Jimmy Carter said it in front of the House of Lords in England earlier this year.

Its still not enough..  All the 'rockstar' 'christians' seem to get all the press, yet they rarely represent the orthodox beliefs Christ taught..  Makes me sick to be quite honest..
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Waateva on Thu, 21 July 2016, 10:03:34

I'd honestly rather have Trump than Cruz though, as Cruz has the whole Evangelical-nutjob aspect to him that Trump lacks.

I agree. Everything that is wrong with Trump is wrong with Cruz, plus that. Cruz just knows what to hide.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/jimmy-carter-donald-trump-ted-cruz-218707 (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/jimmy-carter-donald-trump-ted-cruz-218707)

Having been raised by them, the Evangelical Christian camp of the far-right scares me a ton.  I still love and work in an area that has an extremely high number of them, and the **** that comes out of their mouths on a regular basis is pretty frightening.

Im a Christian through and through and they scare me too..  In fact, many Christians actively speak against the hateful rhetoric that seems to come from the extremist right..  Of course, that doesnt make the news..

There are a lot of Christians who are indeed great people and don't buy into it, but from personal experience a lot of them won't speak up because the Evangelicals get downright nasty with them if they do.  The church I went to growing up was and still is a full on speaking in tongues/casting demons out/run around the church because of the Holy Spirit/4-7 hour church service kind of place, but the pastor's oldest son has kind of grown out of it and has become much more moderate in the last 5-10 years.  When I see him post things on Facebook the parishioners from his dad's church are absolutely merciless and often tell him straight up that hopefully he enjoys the company of homosexuals and rapists because that's who his company will be in hell.

It's sad but kind of humorous now that I am on the outside looking in, as to the kind of sectarian behavior that a lot of Christians and churches exhibit.  In fact, now that I think about it, every church that I attended growing up had a church split while I was attending or shortly after I left, with at least two of those churches considering those who left "not true believers."

Cruz came out saying "Vote your conscience" is the best thing ever.

I hate that slimy bastard, but I love him for creating an entertaining speech.  :))

I'd honestly rather have Trump than Cruz though, as Cruz has the whole Evangelical-nutjob aspect to him that Trump lacks.

Uh. Ted Cruz 2020. He is now okay with all religions!

That pandering ****

http://www.bustle.com/articles/173960-this-ted-cruz-rnc-speech-quote-about-diversity-freedom-is-totally-unexpected

In regards to that, I present a comment I shamelessly stole from reddit:

You're damn right it's a trap; these words sound familiar?

"...the rights of all of us to live according to our conscience."

Let me guess, according to his conscience LGBT cannot be married, abortion is murder, and he should have the 'right' to disciminate etc etc. Whenever I hear 'according to our conscience' from a religious person I think here comes an appeal to allow persecution and discrimination of minorities.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Thu, 21 July 2016, 10:10:18
You nailed it Waateva, persecution of the Church typically, in my experience, comes from the 'church'... 

We meet in homes privately away from the mainstream Churches for that reason..  Pretty sad, but all we can do is distance ourselves from them..

Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: nugglets on Thu, 21 July 2016, 10:11:55

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/jimmy-carter-donald-trump-ted-cruz-218707 (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/jimmy-carter-donald-trump-ted-cruz-218707)

In fact, many Christians actively speak against the hateful rhetoric that seems to come from the extremist right.

Of course, that doesnt make the news..

Well, at least it did when Jimmy Carter said it in front of the House of Lords in England earlier this year.

Its still not enough..  All the 'rockstar' 'christians' seem to get all the press, yet they rarely represent the orthodox beliefs Christ taught..  Makes me sick to be quite honest..

I'm not religious, but I was raised in a Roman Catholic family. My father, his two brothers, and three of my mom's cousins were all in the Seminary together, though none became priests. My aunt and two other uncles are principles at catholic schools. It runs deep, and this isn't an area anyone would accuse of being overly religious.

Not a single one of them can believe the bull**** that comes out of the mouths of people like Cruz. It was the same with Bachman saying that God told her to run for president.

While I don't personally believe, it's not only sickening to see people say such things for political gain, it's absolutely infuriating to see people exploit and misrepresent the faith of others in such an obvious way. It feeds stereotypes and opens up sane, rational, intelligent, peaceful and loving people to undeserved ridicule by those who think these nutjobs are the norm.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Thu, 21 July 2016, 10:17:07

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/jimmy-carter-donald-trump-ted-cruz-218707 (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/jimmy-carter-donald-trump-ted-cruz-218707)

In fact, many Christians actively speak against the hateful rhetoric that seems to come from the extremist right.

Of course, that doesnt make the news..

Well, at least it did when Jimmy Carter said it in front of the House of Lords in England earlier this year.

Its still not enough..  All the 'rockstar' 'christians' seem to get all the press, yet they rarely represent the orthodox beliefs Christ taught..  Makes me sick to be quite honest..

I'm not religious, but I was raised in a Roman Catholic family. My father, his two brothers, and three of my mom's cousins were all in the Seminary together, though none became priests. My aunt and two other uncles are principles at catholic schools. It runs deep, and this isn't an area anyone would accuse of being overly religious.

Not a single one of them can believe the bull**** that comes out of the mouths of people like Cruz. It was the same with Bachman saying that God told her to run for president.

While I don't personally believe, it's not only sickening to see people say such things for political gain, it's absolutely infuriating to see people exploit and misrepresent the faith of others in such an obvious way. It feeds stereotypes and opens up sane, rational, intelligent, peaceful and loving people to undeserved ridicule by those who think these nutjobs are the norm.

if God told her to run, why didnt she win lol
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Waateva on Thu, 21 July 2016, 10:29:36
You nailed it Waateva, persecution of the Church typically, in my experience, comes from the 'church'... 

We meet in homes privately away from the mainstream Churches for that reason..  Pretty sad, but all we can do is distance ourselves from them..

Even though it's old, I always loved this joke by Emo Philips.

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!"
He said, "Nobody loves me."
I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes."
I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?"
He said, "A Christian."
I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me, too! What franchise?"
He said, "Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912."
I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.


http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/jimmy-carter-donald-trump-ted-cruz-218707 (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/jimmy-carter-donald-trump-ted-cruz-218707)

In fact, many Christians actively speak against the hateful rhetoric that seems to come from the extremist right.

Of course, that doesnt make the news..

Well, at least it did when Jimmy Carter said it in front of the House of Lords in England earlier this year.

Its still not enough..  All the 'rockstar' 'christians' seem to get all the press, yet they rarely represent the orthodox beliefs Christ taught..  Makes me sick to be quite honest..

I'm not religious, but I was raised in a Roman Catholic family. My father, his two brothers, and three of my mom's cousins were all in the Seminary together, though none became priests. My aunt and two other uncles are principles at catholic schools. It runs deep, and this isn't an area anyone would accuse of being overly religious.

Not a single one of them can believe the bull**** that comes out of the mouths of people like Cruz. It was the same with Bachman saying that God told her to run for president.

While I don't personally believe, it's not only sickening to see people say such things for political gain, it's absolutely infuriating to see people exploit and misrepresent the faith of others in such an obvious way. It feeds stereotypes and opens up sane, rational, intelligent, peaceful and loving people to undeserved ridicule by those who think these nutjobs are the norm.

That's because Catholics aren't taught nor do they believe the same crazy bull**** as Cruz and a lot of other Evangelicals.  My wife was loosely raised Catholic, and when I tell her stories about how people believe Noah and the ark literally happened, or that the Earth really was only created ~6000 years ago, or that God really did command a couple bears to slay a bunch of teenagers for making fun of a prophet, she is dumbfounded.

I'm not religious, but I was raised in a Roman Catholic family. My father, his two brothers, and three of my mom's cousins were all in the Seminary together, though none became priests. My aunt and two other uncles are principles at catholic schools. It runs deep, and this isn't an area anyone would accuse of being overly religious.

Not a single one of them can believe the bull**** that comes out of the mouths of people like Cruz. It was the same with Bachman saying that God told her to run for president.

While I don't personally believe, it's not only sickening to see people say such things for political gain, it's absolutely infuriating to see people exploit and misrepresent the faith of others in such an obvious way. It feeds stereotypes and opens up sane, rational, intelligent, peaceful and loving people to undeserved ridicule by those who think these nutjobs are the norm.

if God told her to run, why didnt she win lol

I believe of the dozen or so people who ran for the 2016 nomination, the only who who didn't say God told him to run is the one who actually got the nomination.

Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Thu, 21 July 2016, 10:45:24
Thats funny waateva, the Catholics official position is that the flood took place and Noah was a historical person..
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: demik on Thu, 21 July 2016, 10:50:08
Religion is cray. But as long as it works for you , you keep it to yourself and you aren't harassing others. DO YOU.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Thu, 21 July 2016, 10:53:27
Religion is cray. But as long as it works for you , you keep it to yourself and you aren't harassing others. DO YOU.

Couldnt agree more bro, couldnt agree more.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Waateva on Thu, 21 July 2016, 11:26:50
Thats funny waateva, the Catholics official position is that the flood took place and Noah was a historical person..

Sure it is, but I have yet to meet the Catholic who will actually argue that 2 of every land-dwelling species on planet Earth somehow managed to fit on a boat that was supposedly a little less than half the length of the Titanic.  Most Catholics I have talked to about this stuff seem to see the Bible as a great book, but that most of the stories in it aren't supposed to be taken literally, and even among Christians Biblical literalism is a relatively recent development.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Thu, 21 July 2016, 11:33:47
Thats funny waateva, the Catholics official position is that the flood took place and Noah was a historical person..

Sure it is, but I have yet to meet the Catholic who will actually argue that 2 of every land-dwelling species on planet Earth somehow managed to fit on a boat that was supposedly a little less than half the length of the Titanic.  Most Catholics I have talked to about this stuff seem to see the Bible as a great book, but that most of the stories in it aren't supposed to be taken literally, and even among Christians Biblical literalism is a relatively recent development.

I think much of what you just said is highly contestable, and some of it is just patently false, but this really isnt the time or place for such a conversation, so I will respectfully refrain from discussing it any further.  If you would like to continue, perhaps a private message is more fitting, so that we dont take away from the intent of the op.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Waateva on Thu, 21 July 2016, 11:46:50
Thats funny waateva, the Catholics official position is that the flood took place and Noah was a historical person..

Sure it is, but I have yet to meet the Catholic who will actually argue that 2 of every land-dwelling species on planet Earth somehow managed to fit on a boat that was supposedly a little less than half the length of the Titanic.  Most Catholics I have talked to about this stuff seem to see the Bible as a great book, but that most of the stories in it aren't supposed to be taken literally, and even among Christians Biblical literalism is a relatively recent development.

I think much of what you just said is highly contestable, and some of it is just patently false, but this really isnt the time or place for such a conversation, so I will respectfully refrain from discussing it any further.  If you would like to continue, perhaps a private message is more fitting, so that we dont take away from the intent of the op.

Fair enough, we will have to agree to disagree :)
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Thu, 21 July 2016, 11:50:43
Fair enough, we will have to agree to disagree :)

Thats what I love about this place, so many people like you are very cordial, easy to talk to and respectful in the process.  I just love it here.


Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Waateva on Thu, 21 July 2016, 11:53:36
Fair enough, we will have to agree to disagree :)

Thats what I love about this place, so many people like you are very cordial, easy to talk to and respectful in the process.  I just love it here.

Well, we're all here for keyboards.  If I really wanted to argue about religion and/or politics I could saunter over to Facebook and find enough to keep me entertained for days :D
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 21 July 2016, 12:01:09
Religion is cray. But as long as it works for you , you keep it to yourself and you aren't harassing others. DO YOU.

You don't have to keep it to yourself.  You also shouldn't harass others, and think that they need to believe just because you do.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: demik on Thu, 21 July 2016, 12:07:17
I think religion should be kept to yourself. It's your faith/relationship with your higher power.

The only church that should be preached is the church of topretology.

Hail hhkb. The mightiest keyboard in the topre kingdom.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 21 July 2016, 12:09:57
I think religion should be kept to yourself. It's your faith/relationship with your higher power.

The only church that should be preached is the church of topretology.

Hail hhkb. The mightiest keyboard in the topre kingdom.

Well, we disagree.  And that's cool.  I've had several good conversations with people of all stripes about religion.  And because we understood that it was a conversation, not a conversion, they were constructive.  I don't think it's necessary to convert people.  But conversation about the things in the world and what we believe- it's central to knowing someone.  I'd personally rather someone told me outright that they didn't like me because of my race, religion, etc.  Because then, I could know who they really are, rather than the PC BS we're led to put forth.  And I could choose based on the truth whether I wanted them in my life.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Thu, 21 July 2016, 12:10:46
I think religion should be kept to yourself. It's your faith/relationship with your higher power.

The only church that should be preached is the church of topretology.

Hail hhkb. The mightiest keyboard in the topre kingdom.

lol, topretology... *wins thread*
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: demik on Thu, 21 July 2016, 12:14:44
(http://i.imgur.com/iySyPTS.jpg)

How unfortunate.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Waateva on Thu, 21 July 2016, 12:17:29
I think religion should be kept to yourself. It's your faith/relationship with your higher power.

The only church that should be preached is the church of topretology.

Hail hhkb. The mightiest keyboard in the topre kingdom.

Well, we disagree.  And that's cool.  I've had several good conversations with people of all stripes about religion.  And because we understood that it was a conversation, not a conversion, they were constructive.  I don't think it's necessary to convert people.  But conversation about the things in the world and what we believe- it's central to knowing someone.  I'd personally rather someone told me outright that they didn't like me because of my race, religion, etc.  Because then, I could know who they really are, rather than the PC BS we're led to put forth.  And I could choose based on the truth whether I wanted them in my life.

I agree with demik, but I completely understand your point as well.  The problem with discussing a lot of things is that if someone believes it "hard" enough, they often aren't interested in having a conversation about it, they are just waiting for you to be done so they can offer their rebuttal.  So the whole time you are talking, they are just formulating a response rather than actually listening and trying to understand why maybe you believe differently than them.  This is certainly not limited to religion either, as people do this with tons of things and I catch myself doing the same thing, but I have been actively trying to correct this behavior because it's not a good thing.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Thu, 21 July 2016, 12:28:33
I think the problem is even worse, most people lack the philosophical training to properly present their contentions or positions with the necessary justification, or even worse, opposing presuppositions..
Its like starting a game of chess with a stalemate, it just doesnt work, and it goes no where.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 21 July 2016, 12:38:16
I think religion should be kept to yourself. It's your faith/relationship with your higher power.

The only church that should be preached is the church of topretology.

Hail hhkb. The mightiest keyboard in the topre kingdom.

Well, we disagree.  And that's cool.  I've had several good conversations with people of all stripes about religion.  And because we understood that it was a conversation, not a conversion, they were constructive.  I don't think it's necessary to convert people.  But conversation about the things in the world and what we believe- it's central to knowing someone.  I'd personally rather someone told me outright that they didn't like me because of my race, religion, etc.  Because then, I could know who they really are, rather than the PC BS we're led to put forth.  And I could choose based on the truth whether I wanted them in my life.

I agree with demik, but I completely understand your point as well.  The problem with discussing a lot of things is that if someone believes it "hard" enough, they often aren't interested in having a conversation about it, they are just waiting for you to be done so they can offer their rebuttal.  So the whole time you are talking, they are just formulating a response rather than actually listening and trying to understand why maybe you believe differently than them.  This is certainly not limited to religion either, as people do this with tons of things and I catch myself doing the same thing, but I have been actively trying to correct this behavior because it's not a good thing.

That has been the case in some of my conversations.  But in many more, especially when my own demeanor is one of conversation, with the requisite listening that goes with conversation, though we may part with our same differences, it has been a good experience. 

I've just personally found when the aim is to conversate, and indeed educate, that there have been good outcomes.  And by good outcome, I'm not talking conversion, but rather the honest sharing of differing beliefs, where both sides get something out of it.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Waateva on Thu, 21 July 2016, 12:48:27
So about the RNC...pretty crazy huh guys?
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: demik on Thu, 21 July 2016, 12:48:57
I think religion should be kept to yourself. It's your faith/relationship with your higher power.

The only church that should be preached is the church of topretology.

Hail hhkb. The mightiest keyboard in the topre kingdom.

Well, we disagree.  And that's cool.  I've had several good conversations with people of all stripes about religion.  And because we understood that it was a conversation, not a conversion, they were constructive.  I don't think it's necessary to convert people.  But conversation about the things in the world and what we believe- it's central to knowing someone.  I'd personally rather someone told me outright that they didn't like me because of my race, religion, etc.  Because then, I could know who they really are, rather than the PC BS we're led to put forth.  And I could choose based on the truth whether I wanted them in my life.

I agree with demik, but I completely understand your point as well.  The problem with discussing a lot of things is that if someone believes it "hard" enough, they often aren't interested in having a conversation about it, they are just waiting for you to be done so they can offer their rebuttal.  So the whole time you are talking, they are just formulating a response rather than actually listening and trying to understand why maybe you believe differently than them.  This is certainly not limited to religion either, as people do this with tons of things and I catch myself doing the same thing, but I have been actively trying to correct this behavior because it's not a good thing.
This is what happens when your life just revolves around one thing.

But as you stated, it's not just religion. Marijuana smokers are huge culprits about this **** too.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Waateva on Thu, 21 July 2016, 12:51:43
I think religion should be kept to yourself. It's your faith/relationship with your higher power.

The only church that should be preached is the church of topretology.

Hail hhkb. The mightiest keyboard in the topre kingdom.

Well, we disagree.  And that's cool.  I've had several good conversations with people of all stripes about religion.  And because we understood that it was a conversation, not a conversion, they were constructive.  I don't think it's necessary to convert people.  But conversation about the things in the world and what we believe- it's central to knowing someone.  I'd personally rather someone told me outright that they didn't like me because of my race, religion, etc.  Because then, I could know who they really are, rather than the PC BS we're led to put forth.  And I could choose based on the truth whether I wanted them in my life.

I agree with demik, but I completely understand your point as well.  The problem with discussing a lot of things is that if someone believes it "hard" enough, they often aren't interested in having a conversation about it, they are just waiting for you to be done so they can offer their rebuttal.  So the whole time you are talking, they are just formulating a response rather than actually listening and trying to understand why maybe you believe differently than them.  This is certainly not limited to religion either, as people do this with tons of things and I catch myself doing the same thing, but I have been actively trying to correct this behavior because it's not a good thing.
This is what happens when your life just revolves around one thing.

But as you stated, it's not just religion. Marijuana smokers are huge culprits about this **** too.

Once you smoke the marijuanas, you can do nothing to prevent it's inevitable control of every aspect of your life.  This eventually results in, "420 BLAZE IT *****"
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: demik on Thu, 21 July 2016, 12:52:33
And listening to Robert Marley. No matter how bad his music is.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Thu, 21 July 2016, 13:04:59
So about the RNC...pretty crazy huh guys?

Last night there was a woman who was failing at the teleprompter so hard it made me uncomfortable.  She literally messed up like every other 3 words..  it was agonizing..  I swear at the end they told her to get off the stage lol

Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: vivalarevolución on Thu, 21 July 2016, 18:04:39
The RNC seems like satire, but it is very real.  This is what happens when you get a bunch of white people together that do not understand things like science and evidence-based research.  They have mastered the whole "motivation by fear" thing, though.

I am highly entertained that Ted Cruz has morphed into a villian-hero.  And how the party lashes out at him when he decide to take an independent stand and not conform.  A textbook example of groupthink and intimidation.

I also can say that I have passed Mike Pence a couple times in the streets of downtown Indianapolis.  Should have given him the finger when I had the chance.  He won't be around the city much longer.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 21 July 2016, 18:55:06

I am highly entertained that Ted Cruz has morphed into a villian-hero. 

I am not one to put much emphasis on physical appearances, but my biggest problem with Cruz is that he is just about the ugliest human being that I have ever seen.

Just one look at his face and I want to vomit.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 21 July 2016, 19:10:46
Looks like demik posted it already, but this still cracks me up.

(http://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/ingraham.gif)


I am highly entertained that Ted Cruz has morphed into a villian-hero. 

I am not one to put much emphasis on physical appearances, but my biggest problem with Cruz is that he is just about the ugliest human being that I have ever seen.

Just one look at his face and I want to vomit.

(https://40.media.tumblr.com/e56711d5a06743211cddfe230ed212c1/tumblr_o2yvcr7n7X1tow4w3o1_500.jpg)
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Air tree on Thu, 21 July 2016, 19:21:03
I can't wait to see the contrast of this and the Democratic National Convention.

They are going strong on the 'War on Christianity" tonight. Wew
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: demik on Thu, 21 July 2016, 19:23:41
yeah i cant wait to see what shillary has to say.

what the the hot topics right now? and the popular opinion? she agrees with it!

there, DNC over.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 21 July 2016, 19:28:13

popular opinion? she agrees with it!

Actually, the central tenant of representative government is that representatives represent the people whom they represent.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Air tree on Thu, 21 July 2016, 19:28:51
I feel like I'm in a minority of people on the internet who don't hate Clinton.


Not a preferred candidate but could be far worse *See Trump
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 21 July 2016, 19:29:52
I can't wait to see the contrast of this and the Democratic National Convention.

They are going strong on the 'War on Christianity" tonight. Wew

Didn't you know, there is no morality without evangelical Jesus.  Stop oppressing Christians by allowing gays marijuana marriage and asking that either tithing go toward almsgiving and helping the poor instead of paying for private jets or taxes to increase.


yeah i cant wait to see what shillary has to say.

what the the hot topics right now? and the popular opinion? she agrees with it!

there, DNC over.

(http://i.imgur.com/inQg5m0.jpg)
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: demik on Thu, 21 July 2016, 19:37:37

popular opinion? she agrees with it!

Actually, the central tenant of representative government is that representatives represent the people whom they represent.


that's crap. they still have personal opinions.

one thing is doing good for the nation and looking at what's best for us. another is completely forgetting your stance on something (while the rest of the nation disagrees with you) because its what will get you elected.

hillary is a flip flopper. she's untrustworthy.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: iri on Thu, 21 July 2016, 19:38:19

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/jimmy-carter-donald-trump-ted-cruz-218707 (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/jimmy-carter-donald-trump-ted-cruz-218707)

In fact, many Christians actively speak against the hateful rhetoric that seems to come from the extremist right.

Of course, that doesnt make the news..

Well, at least it did when Jimmy Carter said it in front of the House of Lords in England earlier this year.

Its still not enough..  All the 'rockstar' 'christians' seem to get all the press, yet they rarely represent the orthodox beliefs Christ taught..
You need Orthodox Christians for that!
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Thu, 21 July 2016, 19:38:25
This is what happens when you get a bunch of white people together

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/762/095/77c.jpg)
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Air tree on Thu, 21 July 2016, 19:44:36
This is what happens when you get a bunch of white people together

Show Image
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/762/095/77c.jpg)

that do not understand things like science and evidence-based research.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Thu, 21 July 2016, 19:47:18
This is what happens when you get a bunch of white people together

Show Image
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/762/095/77c.jpg)

that do not understand things like science and evidence-based research.

I still dont see the point in bringing up skin color...  Considering many of the speakers at the RNC were black or spanish, not just white..

Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: nugglets on Thu, 21 July 2016, 19:48:08

popular opinion? she agrees with it!

Actually, the central tenant of representative government is that representatives represent the people whom they represent.


that's crap. they still have personal opinions.

one thing is doing good for the nation and looking at what's best for us. another is completely forgetting your stance on something (while the rest of the nation disagrees with you) because its what will get you elected.

hillary is a flip flopper. she's untrustworthy.

This whole "flip flopper" thing is stupid. I have more faith in someone who's open to change than to pray for some politician to come along who will never change their mind about anything, no matter the evidence or arguments against them.

I'm not saying that people, probably Hillary included, don't change their public opinion for personal gain.

But the idea that someone changing their opinion over the course of a few decades means they are now a "flip flopper" is absurd.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: iri on Thu, 21 July 2016, 19:52:27
Apparently, Spanish is now a race.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 21 July 2016, 19:56:17
More

popular opinion? she agrees with it!

Actually, the central tenant of representative government is that representatives represent the people whom they represent.


that's crap. they still have personal opinions.

one thing is doing good for the nation and looking at what's best for us. another is completely forgetting your stance on something (while the rest of the nation disagrees with you) because its what will get you elected.

hillary is a flip flopper. she's untrustworthy.

This whole "flip flopper" thing is stupid. I have more faith in someone who's open to change than to pray for some politician to come along who will never change their mind about anything, no matter the evidence or arguments against them.

I'm not saying that people, probably Hillary included, don't change their public opinion for personal gain.

But the idea that someone changing their opinion over the course of a few decades means they are now a "flip flopper" is absurd.

There's a difference between flip flopping and saying whatever is politically expedient and having evolving political beliefs.  John Kerry was more someone with evolving political beliefs, Hillary will do and say whatever she needs to to get elected. 
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Air tree on Thu, 21 July 2016, 19:56:17
This is what happens when you get a bunch of white people together

Show Image
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/762/095/77c.jpg)

that do not understand things like science and evidence-based research.

I still dont see the point in bringing up skin color...  Considering many of the speakers at the RNC were black or spanish, not just white..
Most rooms full of people yelling at the top of their lungs  "ALL LIVES MATTER" tend to be pretty white.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: nugglets on Thu, 21 July 2016, 20:01:14
More

popular opinion? she agrees with it!

Actually, the central tenant of representative government is that representatives represent the people whom they represent.


that's crap. they still have personal opinions.

one thing is doing good for the nation and looking at what's best for us. another is completely forgetting your stance on something (while the rest of the nation disagrees with you) because its what will get you elected.

hillary is a flip flopper. she's untrustworthy.

This whole "flip flopper" thing is stupid. I have more faith in someone who's open to change than to pray for some politician to come along who will never change their mind about anything, no matter the evidence or arguments against them.

I'm not saying that people, probably Hillary included, don't change their public opinion for personal gain.

But the idea that someone changing their opinion over the course of a few decades means they are now a "flip flopper" is absurd.

There's a difference between flip flopping and saying whatever is politically expedient and having evolving political beliefs.  John Kerry was more someone with evolving political beliefs, Hillary will do and say whatever she needs to to get elected.

Even if that popularly held opinion were true, I honestly couldn't give a rats ass what their personal opinions are as long as they fairly represent the ideas that got them elected.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 21 July 2016, 20:01:31

many of the speakers at the RNC were black or spanish

Huh? Was that on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bizarro_World (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bizarro_World)
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Thu, 21 July 2016, 20:03:11

many of the speakers at the RNC were black or spanish

Huh? Was that on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bizarro_World (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bizarro_World)

Im referring to the RNC, not everyone there was white, contrary to 'geekhack' belief..

crazy, I know..
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: demik on Thu, 21 July 2016, 20:07:46
More

popular opinion? she agrees with it!

Actually, the central tenant of representative government is that representatives represent the people whom they represent.


that's crap. they still have personal opinions.

one thing is doing good for the nation and looking at what's best for us. another is completely forgetting your stance on something (while the rest of the nation disagrees with you) because its what will get you elected.

hillary is a flip flopper. she's untrustworthy.

This whole "flip flopper" thing is stupid. I have more faith in someone who's open to change than to pray for some politician to come along who will never change their mind about anything, no matter the evidence or arguments against them.

I'm not saying that people, probably Hillary included, don't change their public opinion for personal gain.

But the idea that someone changing their opinion over the course of a few decades means they are now a "flip flopper" is absurd.

There's a difference between flip flopping and saying whatever is politically expedient and having evolving political beliefs.  John Kerry was more someone with evolving political beliefs, Hillary will do and say whatever she needs to to get elected. 

ding ding
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 21 July 2016, 20:08:08
More
More

popular opinion? she agrees with it!

Actually, the central tenant of representative government is that representatives represent the people whom they represent.


that's crap. they still have personal opinions.

one thing is doing good for the nation and looking at what's best for us. another is completely forgetting your stance on something (while the rest of the nation disagrees with you) because its what will get you elected.

hillary is a flip flopper. she's untrustworthy.

This whole "flip flopper" thing is stupid. I have more faith in someone who's open to change than to pray for some politician to come along who will never change their mind about anything, no matter the evidence or arguments against them.

I'm not saying that people, probably Hillary included, don't change their public opinion for personal gain.

But the idea that someone changing their opinion over the course of a few decades means they are now a "flip flopper" is absurd.

There's a difference between flip flopping and saying whatever is politically expedient and having evolving political beliefs.  John Kerry was more someone with evolving political beliefs, Hillary will do and say whatever she needs to to get elected.

Even if that popularly held opinion were true, I honestly couldn't give a rats ass what their personal opinions are as long as they fairly represent the ideas that got them elected.

Well, it's a good thing we can look back and see a history of political action for her then and see that she often acted against her constituents wishes.  Remember, it was the Clintons who passed NAFTA and the Clintons who continue to support the TPP.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 21 July 2016, 20:11:57

Im referring to the RNC, not everyone there was white, contrary to 'geekhack' belief..


Reserve your comments to the facts and numbers, not the source. Obfuscation does not affect reality.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/earl-ofari-hutchinson/the-2016-gop-conventionth_b_11028190.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/earl-ofari-hutchinson/the-2016-gop-conventionth_b_11028190.html)
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 21 July 2016, 20:16:02
Remember, it was the Clintons who passed NAFTA and the Clintons who continue to support the TPP.

Not true. Bush Sr passed and signed NAFTA, although Bill Clinton implemented it.

Hillary, finally, came out against TPP, although not without trepidation.

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/36752-the-trans-pacific-partnership-a-deal-that-sanders-clinton-and-trump-all-oppose (http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/36752-the-trans-pacific-partnership-a-deal-that-sanders-clinton-and-trump-all-oppose)
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Thu, 21 July 2016, 20:29:56

Im referring to the RNC, not everyone there was white, contrary to 'geekhack' belief..


Reserve your comments to the facts and numbers, not the source. Obfuscation does not affect reality.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/earl-ofari-hutchinson/the-2016-gop-conventionth_b_11028190.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/earl-ofari-hutchinson/the-2016-gop-conventionth_b_11028190.html)

Forgive me, there were so many non white speakers at the RNC, I lost count.  I'm sure you can find the numbers if it matters that much to you ;)
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 21 July 2016, 20:42:47

there were so many non white speakers at the RNC, I lost count

I was attempting to engage in a rational discussion with respect for your comments. Clearly, that is a dead end.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/us/politics/black-republicans-convention.html?_r=0

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-republican-national-convention-white-latino-black-america-donald-trump-20160715-snap-story.html

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/donald-trump-diversity-convention-225742

Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Thu, 21 July 2016, 20:50:41

there were so many non white speakers at the RNC, I lost count

I was attempting to engage in a rational discussion with respect for your comments. Clearly, that is a dead end.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/us/politics/black-republicans-convention.html?_r=0

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-republican-national-convention-white-latino-black-america-donald-trump-20160715-snap-story.html

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/donald-trump-diversity-convention-225742

I was talking to someone else, bringing some counterfactuals to the table to correct a few ignorant comments earlier, I have no clue what u are on about or what point you are trying to make.  What is the premise of the conversation you are trying to engage in with me?  Perhaps we can bridge a gap here and arrive at some understanding together.

Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 21 July 2016, 22:26:34
I am really getting sick of hearing (sane) people calling Trump a "sociopath" when he is clearly a psychopath.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath (https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath)
In casual conversation, “sociopath” and “psychopath” mean the same thing. One is just a slightly older term, which was then arbitrarily redefined a few times. In technical conversation between psychiatrists, they still mean the same thing most of the time, but psychiatrists are notorious for inventing arbitrary categories and then coming up with weird criteria for fitting people into one or another. There’s seldom a particularly scientific basis for the categorization, but anyway.. If you want to know precisely what a specific psychiatrist means by one of these terms in a technical context, you should ask them which technical definition they’re using.

Trump isn’t a psychopath. He’s a textbook example of narcissistic personality disorder (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder).

Fohat, quoting from your link:
Quote
When committing crimes, psychopaths carefully plan out every detail in advance and often have contingency plans in place. Unlike their sociopathic counterparts, psychopathic criminals are cool, calm, and meticulous. Their crimes, whether violent or non-violent, will be highly organized and generally offer few clues for authorities to pursue.
This is nothing like Trump’s MO. Trump is disorganized, ad-hoc, incredibly impulsive, and makes little effort to hide his motives or his tracks.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 21 July 2016, 23:29:54
Remember, it was the Clintons who passed NAFTA and the Clintons who continue to support the TPP.
Not true. Bush Sr passed and signed NAFTA, although Bill Clinton implemented it.
Um.. NAFTA was negotiated by Bush Sr.’s trade people, and signed by Bush in 1992 (right before Clinton took office), but technically that signature has no binding legal authority, it’s just a ceremonial statement that each nation intends to examine the treaty and consider ratifying it.

NAFTA was ratified in 1993 and formally signed into law by Clinton, right at the end of 1993. (Treaties per se are ratified by the Senate, but in NAFTA’s case there was an associated bill in Congress. The vote in the House was quite divided; if I remember correctly it was like 55%/45% with a majority of Democrats opposed). Clinton negotiated a couple of additional side treaties about labor rights and the environment, as a token nod to some Democratic Party constituencies.

But it’s reasonably fair to say that the Clintons passed NAFTA. Clinton’s whole schtick was that he’d be a more business friendly brand of Democrat (compared to Carter / Mondale / Dukakis, who had been stomped in the previous 3 elections), willing to “compromise”, which in practice meant putting finance people in charge of his economic policy, and signing a bunch of Republican-supported bills which reduced labor rights, weakened environmental protection, undermined the welfare program, eliminated some banking regulations, etc.

Of course, it’s also fair to pin blame for NAFTA on Bush and the Republican Party, who were its primary proponents.

The Clinton/Bush election in 1992 was the closest example we’ve ever had of “both major parties are the same, it doesn’t matter who you vote for”. Of course, there was still a big difference: Clinton kicked most of Reagans war criminal buddies out of the cabinet, for example.
Title: Re: Democratic National Convention (Previously RNC Thread)
Post by: Air tree on Thu, 21 July 2016, 23:48:20
Thread title changed, time to get ready for the 25th, hopefully a some what more sane night.



Should be a bit more civil than the RNC, should be.
Title: Re: Democratic National Convention (Previously RNC Thread)
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 22 July 2016, 00:21:01
“How Trump Created the Anti-Convention” http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/trump-invents-the-anti-convention
Title: Re: Democratic National Convention (Previously RNC Thread)
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 22 July 2016, 07:00:34

The Clinton/Bush election in 1992 was the closest example we’ve ever had of “both major parties are the same, it doesn’t matter who you vote for”.

I will certainly agree with you there, although Clinton had to do what he did for pragmatic reasons.

But NAFTA was Bush Sr's baby that he had worked long and hard for, and it was mostly a "done deal" by the time Clinton got there.

And about the psychopath, except for the sentence about planning the description is dead on.
But yes, a monumental narcissist would eschew planning as a waste of time. 
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: vivalarevolución on Fri, 22 July 2016, 09:13:52
This is what happens when you get a bunch of white people together

Show Image
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/762/095/77c.jpg)

that do not understand things like science and evidence-based research.

I still dont see the point in bringing up skin color...  Considering many of the speakers at the RNC were black or spanish, not just white..

Spanish isn't a race, it is a language.  It also is a language with many dialects, spoken in many countries around the world.  I also doubt that many Spaniards in the US are members of the Republican Party.

The point of bringing up skin color is because about 90% of the people that identify as Republican are white.  The Republican Party likes to put minorities front-and-center to make the public think they have a wide appeal among the cross section of Americans.  But the polling evidence shows that the Republican Party is very, very white:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/160373/democrats-racially-diverse-republicans-mostly-white.aspx

I see this as important to highlight because when you live in this country, your race affects your experience and interpretation of events.  With a long history of overt and subvert racism, that is basically inevitable.  If you haven't experienced that and know someone that has experienced that, you have lived in a safe, isolated world. 
 
So if you have a bunch of white people hanging out with each other, there is a good chance that the group does not have a firm grasp of the experiences and challenges of the individuals born into the various minority groups that live in this country.  Considering that the group I called a "bunch of white people" has adopted the slogan "Make American Great Again", which is blatantly ignorant and subversively racist because American never has been great for many people that have lived here for centuries and oppressed against their will (Native Americans, black Americans, for example), I don't think they represent all the citizens of this country very well.

And that is why I think race is a very important issue when discussing the composition of America's political parties.  Of course, my viewpoints are more nuanced than that, but I don't feel like writing more right now.

Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Fri, 22 July 2016, 09:43:14
Spanish isn't a race, it is a language.

I never said in any of my posts that 'spanish' was a race.. Strawman all you like, but if you wanted clarification, you could have asked for it instead of assuming my position on the matter.. Technically, any label for a group of people is semantically flawed, all white people are not ethnically identical for example, even though we are painted that way..  Also, Ive have had spanish folks tell me that 'hispanic' is offensive, so I try not to use it. 

I also am fully able to make a distinction between the variety of ethnic diversity in the spanish speaking communities, they tend to be rather outspoken about the differences themselves, especially here in Florida where they come from all over the world.

Semantics aside, I suppose the ethnicity of a person just isnt that big of a deal to me, perhaps it is for others.

It doesnt take a genius to make the observation that the majority of republicans are white, the majority of americans are white, so it stands to reason that in most situations, whites outnumber everyone else, its kind of expected..

The majority of democrats are white as well..
Title: Re: Democratic National Convention (Previously RNC Thread)
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 22 July 2016, 15:47:26
Hispanic is not offensive.  Calling someone the shortened slur derived from that is as is calling all Spanish speakers Mexican.

I have literally never met someone who insisted on Spanish over Hispanic/Latino/Latina.  The only people I know of who orwant to be called Spanish are Spaniards.  The only other ones I know who like that sometimes are the Aryan looking douches from Mexico City who think they're better than everyone else because of their fair skin.

Also, yes, all political parties are mostly white, the statement is that a significant majority of Hispanic and black voters identify as and vote Democrat. 
Title: Re: Democratic National Convention (Previously RNC Thread)
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Fri, 22 July 2016, 16:36:13
Hispanic is not offensive.  Calling someone the shortened slur derived from that is as is calling all Spanish speakers Mexican.

I have literally never met someone who insisted on Spanish over Hispanic/Latino/Latina.  The only people I know of who orwant to be called Spanish are Spaniards.  The only other ones I know who like that sometimes are the Aryan looking douches from Mexico City who think they're better than everyone else because of their fair skin.

Also, yes, all political parties are mostly white, the statement is that a significant majority of Hispanic and black voters identify as and vote Democrat.

Its like that in Spain too, they werent particularly 'douchey' lol, but alot of them had blonde hair, many had blue eyes...  In fact, unless they were quiet, you could possibly mistake them for what I guess most people would consider white..  Of course, there was mixture of other features as well...

I have in fact been told that hispanic is a bit offensive, but I dont remember the context of 'why' it was offensive, if I had to guess, maybe it was too 'generalizy' or something, considering hispanic covers a pretty large variation of demographics around the world.. The person who told me it was offensive was mexican, and where I live, mexicans and Puerto Ricans hate each other for some reason.. 

Where Im from, spanish as a reference to a persons ethnicity isnt offensive at all, nor is it meant to refer to a group of people as a race, like the guy above seemed to make it out to be.

Its literally no different than calling a person white, who in fact might be English, Irish, Scottish, German, French, Russian, ect...   

Buddy up top tried to ruffle my feathers by putting words in my mouth, so I corrected him, that is all :)
Title: Re: Democratic National Convention (Previously RNC Thread)
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 22 July 2016, 16:46:08
And about the psychopath, except for the sentence about planning the description is dead on.
But yes, a monumental narcissist would eschew planning as a waste of time.
My personal opinion as a non-expert is that Trump doesn’t show the signs/symptoms most strongly associated with psychopathy. In my opinion, calling him a psychopath is a misuse of the term. If you think he sounds like a psychopath, I recommend you consult with a trained psychiatrist, or do some more reading about psychopathy.

Like psychopaths, he clearly has low empathy, looks out primarily for himself, and is indifferent to the suffering of others. Unlike psychopaths, Trump is not cold and calculating, doesn’t have an ability to focus (he has the attention span of a goldfish), and is not good at controlling his emotions or reactions. He doesn’t seem to me to be a sadist per se; his focus is instead on winning and being congratulated and admired, so he has learned to play brutal dominance games as a means to that end.

Analyzing him in the context of psychopathy is in my opinion misleading, and will lead you to make poor predictions of his future actions and responses. I hope the Clinton campaign people don’t plan as if he’s psychopath. (Again, let me stress that I am not an expert though. Hopefully they do have some real experts over there who can try to predict what Trump will do and draw up plans for every eventuality.)

Instead, Trump is almost a perfect textbook example of narcissistic personality disorder. If you have ever known someone with this type of personality, the relevant features are in clear public display here. He has a profound need to always be the center of attention, to be congratulated and praised, to dominate every interaction. He is impulsive, thin-skinned, unreflective, paranoid, and suffers crippling fear and anxiety whenever his transparently bogus self-image is questioned, which he copes with by aggressively lashing out at his perceived attacker. He lies with impunity, and generally says whatever he thinks will get him the most immediate attention and validation, without consideration for future consequences. Because questioning such a person leads to blowups, narcissists in positions of power tend to be surrounded by sycophants and lackeys, because their followers either learn to carefully avoid any conflict or get the hell out. This helps insulate the narcissist from confronting the obvious contradictions between their beliefs and reality.

I once dated a girl who in retrospect was clearly an example of borderline personality disorder. Despite only lasting a couple months, it was a harrowing experience, and left me traumatized for a long time afterward. Narcissistic personality disorder is substantially different in details, but similarly destructive. I am eternally grateful that there is nobody like Trump who I need to deal with on a regular basis. I have a friend whose mother is an extreme narcissist, and their family life was a trainwreck.
Title: Re: Democratic National Convention (Previously RNC Thread)
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Fri, 22 July 2016, 16:49:00
Instead, Trump is almost a perfect textbook example of narcissistic personality disorder. If you have ever known someone with this type of personality, the relevant features are in clear public display here. He has a profound need to always be the center of attention, to be congratulated and praised, to dominate every interaction. He is impulsive, thin-skinned, unreflective, paranoid, and suffers crippling fear and anxiety whenever his transparently bogus self-image is questioned, which he copes with by aggressively lashing out at his perceived attacker. He lies with impunity, and generally says whatever he thinks will get him the most immediate attention and validation, without consideration for future consequences.

Wow, you couldnt have more perfectly described Trump to the 'T' if you wanted to..  Couldnt agree more...
Title: Re: Democratic National Convention (Previously RNC Thread)
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 22 July 2016, 17:24:31

In my opinion, calling him a psychopath is a misuse of the term.

Like psychopaths, he clearly has low empathy, looks out primarily for himself, and is indifferent to the suffering of others.


I will concede your point. My broader point was that I generally see people who look at the world as "we are all in the same boat / we are all in this together" and people who generally take the attitude of predators. In that sense the opposite of "love" is not "hate" but rather "selfishness" and that is the very essence of psychopathy. And while Trump himself may not be particularly hateful, his followers certainly are - regardless of whether their hate is the external expression of internal fear or whatever.

Trump's money and privilege has insulated him from all that and in the end I guess I am proposing that narcissism is perhaps a subset of psychopathy, cloaked in a "kinder and gentler" presentation.

In any case, the NYT article suggested that he would hand off the actual work to a minion, while he preened.

Frighteningly like Reagan, who, it was said, often slept through strategy and planning meetings, looking at that bit as "script-writing" while his role was to "deliver the lines"
Title: Re: Democratic National Convention (Previously RNC Thread)
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 22 July 2016, 18:07:20
I generally see people who look at the world as "we are all in the same boat / we are all in this together" and people who generally take the attitude of predators.
Indeed. And even in, say, the internal politics of the Republican party, most folks there believe in cooperating with each-other to achieve some common goals.

Trump doesn’t give a **** about anyone, and certainly not about other Republican politicians or the party itself. Politics is a team sport, but Trump just kneecapped all his own teammates, picked up the ball against the rules, and is now running around in circles on the field squawking and beating his chest.

That’s why all the GOP politicians, staffers, operatives, donors, pundits, etc. are furious and terrified. They think he will cost many of them their jobs and set back their common goals by decades, and himself will just drop the matter and walk away. The only “skin in the game” Trump has is his own reputation, but he’s been a controversial figure for years, and even if he ruins his reputation to the point of losing all his business partners, embroiling himself in additional lawsuits, etc., he’ll probably manage to spin any result into a decent return, like a higher profile version of Palin.
Title: Re: Democratic National Convention (Previously RNC Thread)
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 22 July 2016, 18:30:35
removed.
Title: Re: Democratic National Convention (Previously RNC Thread)
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 22 July 2016, 20:43:24
So why does Hillary announce her running mate just after 5:00 on a Friday afternoon?
 
Title: Re: Democratic National Convention (Previously RNC Thread)
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 22 July 2016, 20:51:43
removed.
Title: Re: Democratic National Convention (Previously RNC Thread)
Post by: Air tree on Fri, 22 July 2016, 23:20:13
So why does Hillary announce her running mate just after 5:00 on a Friday afternoon?

muslim.
What is that supposed to mean, exactly?
Title: Re: Democratic National Convention (Previously RNC Thread)
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 23 July 2016, 08:03:59

muslim.

What is that supposed to mean, exactly?

Muslim and Jewish Sabbath days begin at sundown on Friday.

Not what I had in mind, I figured that it was to start a private weekend buzz after business had closed for the week.

But alienman may well be right.
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Spopepro on Sat, 23 July 2016, 13:46:25
... Technically, any label for a group of people is semantically flawed, all white people are not ethnically identical for example, even though we are painted that way..  Also, Ive have had spanish folks tell me that 'hispanic' is offensive, so I try not to use it. 
...

My day job involves significant work with demographic categorical data. You have to think of race and ethnicity as functional things, not literal. It is frequently put forth by some people (who are often young, white, educated, men) that it doesn't make sense to look at race and ethnicity. That position fails to recognize why we collect data the way we do--it is because the important and impactful social constructs that have created such a different experience and opportunities that have altered the path of whole groups of people. You can't exclude a group from jobs, housing, voting, etc, for hundreds of years and then suddenly say, well, we aren't officially doing that anymore so it's not right to talk about why it happened in the first place. So the argument of "technically flawed" isn't wrong per se, but it has nothing to do with why we look at demographics of race and ethnicity in the first place.

Astute readers will notice that I keep saying "race and ethnicity". They are two different things. Current best practice in the USA (remember--you track what is critical in your area with your history. For example you might want to track Cymric ethnicity in GB, but that makes less sense in the USA) is to first collect ethnicity data in a yes no question: "are you Hispanic or Latino?"  Then you collect race data where everyone, including those who marked yes on Hispanic/Latino, marks as many race codes as is appropriate. Largely, the categories we collect are Native American, Asian, Pacific Islander or Native Hawaiian, Filipino, African American or Black, White. Some of these have further subgroups, like Asian has around 20 further categories, and some do not, like Filipino. If someone marks more than one code from different top categories we currently count them as "two or more races".

So finally to the point. Since Hispanic or Latino isn't a race, it's an ethnicity, you can be Hispanic/Latino and white, or you can be Hispanic/Latino and Native American, or so on and so forth. The latter is the group that will sometimes bristle at the titles of Hispanic or Latino, both of which etymologically come from Europe. Often these people will prefer Xicano, but that label also has baggage for others.  So the current situation is the official term is "Hispanic or Latino", but some prefer something else, but as long as you are respectful to the person you are talking to, and of the people you are talking about, the specific titles aren't to be worried about. 
Title: Re: Republican National Convention
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Sat, 23 July 2016, 14:24:18
So finally to the point. Since Hispanic or Latino isn't a race, it's an ethnicity, you can be Hispanic/Latino and white, or you can be Hispanic/Latino and Native American, or so on and so forth. The latter is the group that will sometimes bristle at the titles of Hispanic or Latino, both of which etymologically come from Europe. Often these people will prefer Xicano, but that label also has baggage for others.  So the current situation is the official term is "Hispanic or Latino", but some prefer something else, but as long as you are respectful to the person you are talking to, and of the people you are talking about, the specific titles aren't to be worried about.

Wow, thank you for that detailed and profoundly informative post :)