geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: exia on Mon, 04 January 2010, 15:43:55
-
Rather than spend $30 to get the inferior model M and then have to replace it down in the future with a superior keyboard i have decided to take a leap and go for the best keyboard and be done with it.
This is the one: http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se1800
Of course what they are asking for is about $50 too much by my estimates on what the keyboard is really worth. Is there another recommended store I can consider checking out? Or how about some price drops in the near future?
And the keyboard is rubber dome! who says rubber dome keyboards aren't good haha? plus the keyboard won't sound like machine gun fire when i type either.
-
You could try looking at Diatec.co.jp and other Asian stores. They are going to be roughly the same price, though. Even if they were cheaper, you would have to have a broker buy it for you, and they're fees would drive the cost up to what you would pay from Elite and more. Elitekeyboards is the only US distributor of Topre keyboards, so you don't have any other US options. Comparing the price of Elite and the Asian stores, he is priced very competitively, if not less. Again, even if you found it cheaper overseas, the brokerage fees would kill any savings you might have gained.
-
Best is subjective... I think a Model F AT is superior in terms of tactility, and build quality.
Then again, I like switches with a higher actuation force.
-
For Cherry switches, it's probably one of the best keyboards, though.
That sucks for Cherry-based 'boards. They don't even make their own best switches.
-
You could try looking at Diatec.co.jp and other Asian stores. They are going to be roughly the same price, though. Even if they were cheaper, you would have to have a broker buy it for you, and they're fees would drive the cost up to what you would pay from Elite and more. Elitekeyboards is the only US distributor of Topre keyboards, so you don't have any other US options. Comparing the price of Elite and the Asian stores, he is priced very competitively, if not less. Again, even if you found it cheaper overseas, the brokerage fees would kill any savings you might have gained.
I would prefer if the manufacturers set a lower price for their keyboards. I understand resellers need to make a living too I am not trying to push them out.
-
Best is subjective... I think a Model F AT is superior in terms of tactility, and build quality.
Then again, I like switches with a higher actuation force.
Yes I support your cause..
Today I am fly-typing on my "new" Model-F AT and my senses of touch and hearing are 100% satisfied.
-
I would prefer if the manufacturers set a lower price for their keyboards. I understand resellers need to make a living too I am not trying to push them out.
I would love it if everybody would lower their price for everything. Stuff costs money though (R&D, materials, marketing, manufacturing, etc.).
-
As others have stated if you are in the US then get the board from EliteKeyboards. But for your reference if you do want to get one from Japan plan on paying about $75-$100 on top of the Yen to USD price for the broker to get one for you. That $75-$100 premium breaks down to about $50 shipping + broker fees and expenses. I've bought a few boards that way before we had EliteKeyboards now that we do I would not do that if EliteKeyboards has the board I want.
-
Saying Topres are better than Model Ms, or that they are the best switch overall is rather misleading. And by misleading, I mean wrong.
In fact, there are probably more people who like buckling springs over Topres than the other way around, and I'm talking about the people who've used both.
-
And by misleading, I mean wrong.
:lol: this'll be fun
-
To add to to the hilarity, I'll probably be getting my HHKB tomorrow.
And the keyboard is rubber dome! who says rubber dome keyboards aren't good haha?
I do. Topre != Rubber Dome.
-
I would love it if everybody would lower their price for everything. Stuff costs money though (R&D, materials, marketing, manufacturing, etc.).
exactly. i mean, it isn't exactly EASY to chop the number pad section off a $228 keyboard, and have it still work. the case has to be fixed, the electronics repaired... that's why they ask $267 for the 87u. if you think about it, that's a pretty good rate (only $39) considering all that modding.
-
Ostentatiously, the 87U is a special edition model, whereas the 103U is a regular production unit. Now, if they had an 86U, that would be a good deal cheaper (I think I remember BeNippon having it for under $200 at one point), but this is oddly absent from the lineup.
Bare in mind that the Tenkeyless Filcos are $15 cheaper than their fullsize equivalents.
-
Ostentatiously, the 87U is a special edition model, whereas the 103U is a regular production unit. Now, if they had an 86U, that would be a good deal cheaper (I think I remember BeNippon having it for under $200 at one point), but this is oddly absent from the lineup.
Bare in mind that the Tenkeyless Filcos are $15 cheaper than their fullsize equivalents.
oh right, i forgot. it's 'rare' even though they keep releasing new batches so that makes it expensive, even from the factory.
i know $15 less isnt much, but the fact that it costs less at all is better than the realforce methodology.
-
I indirectly arrived at this site by my programmer friend's acquisition of a Topre Realforce 87U. He's very happy with it and is still using it, for over a year now. That's all I can say about this.
-
Once you have it, you'll realize isn't wasn't worth agonizing :) i have mine and am loving it.
-
Saying Topres are better than Model Ms, or that they are the best switch overall is rather misleading. And by misleading, I mean wrong.
In fact, there are probably more people who like buckling springs over Topres than the other way around, and I'm talking about the people who've used both.
I could go either way with that. I think the model m is awesome, not inferior yet I do like the HHKB Pro. I don't want to have to takes sides : )
Keyboards are like skittles to me, every color of the rainbow; and they are all good.
-
oh right, i forgot. it's 'rare' even though they keep releasing new batches so that makes it expensive, even from the factory.
i know $15 less isnt much, but the fact that it costs less at all is better than the realforce methodology.
Oh, I'm not agreeing with it, I'm just saying that that's the thinking behind it.
And btw, I wasn't saying that Buckling Springs were better than Topres or vice-versa, just that they're very different things.
-
And btw, I wasn't saying that Buckling Springs were better than Topres or vice-versa, just that they're very different things.
Agree with you on this. I like both as well but I tend to use the Topre boards more just because I find them more comfortable to type on.
Personally I think that we have a whole lot of options to choose from for good quality boards today and in all reality there is not a single keyboard that we could all agree on that is the best. All we can say is that this or that keyboard is the best for me or you. Besides if there was such a thing as the Best Keyboard ever built that we could all agree on what would we do? No more arguing about it, no more collecting because we found the Best, No more picture taking except for the Best keyboard that is. Sounds kinda of boring to me. I like the diversity we currently have today I love my Topre but I still like to type on Cherry boards (browns) and BS boards and best off all they are all great keyboards.
-
oh right, i forgot. it's 'rare' even though they keep releasing new batches so that makes it expensive, even from the factory.
i know $15 less isnt much, but the fact that it costs less at all is better than the realforce methodology.
Yea I'm actually surprised that they are continuing to make new boards. They normally stop production for a while (6-9months) on these special limited edition keyboards.
-
Rather than spend $30 to get the inferior model M and then have to replace it down in the future with a superior keyboard i have decided to take a leap and go for the best keyboard and be done with it.
Don't call the Model M inferior. I could easily smash a $200 Topre to bits with a $5 Model M. In addition to superior build quality (That's a given with just about any keyboard), there are many who prefer the tactile feedback of IBM's buckling spring technology to Topre's spring-loaded rubber dome switches. There are also some who like it the other way around.
-
It must be Troll-The-Troller Day.
-
Don't call the Model M inferior. I could easily smash a $200 Topre to bits with a $5 Model M. In addition to superior build quality (That's a given with just about any keyboard), there are many who prefer the tactile feedback of IBM's buckling spring technology to Topre's spring-loaded rubber dome switches. There are also some who like it the other way around.
You sound offended. We are talking about keyboards....
-
"topre, what a piece of junk. Watch this, it'll break the first time I bludgeon it with my model F"
-
Don't call the Model M inferior. I could easily smash a $200 Topre to bits with a $5 Model M. In addition to superior build quality (That's a given with just about any keyboard), there are many who prefer the tactile feedback of IBM's buckling spring technology to Topre's spring-loaded rubber dome switches. There are also some who like it the other way around.
I have never used a better built keyboard than my Realforce Topre boards. I have some that equal it, but not exceed it. I probably have or have owned most of the "significant" keyboards and can say the build quality on my Realforce boards is phenomenal.
I like Model M's - no longer my favorite but I still like and respect them for what they are and I still have a handful. But by your logic the Model M would be inferior to anything cheaper that could be used to smash it.
(http://www.dembot.net/images/facepalm/double_trek_facepalm.jpg)
-
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b81/_Sirocco/wrongfacepalm.jpg)
0/10. Troll harder.
-
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b81/_Sirocco/pc_jr_keyboard.gif)
Clearly this is the best keyboard ever made. Why on Earth would you want legends printed on your beautiful keys? Every keyboard should have plenty of room right above the key for the legend. IBM wins yet again.
-
inferior
best
Inferior to what? Better in what way? Smashing power? Current draw? As a paintbrush? Tactile feedback?
How much does a fat dog weigh? Who decides?
Without specifics, any argument is apples to oranges, without merit.
-
Inferior to what? Better in what way? Smashing power? Current draw? As a paintbrush? Tactile feedback?
smashing power, and then loudness
:lol:
-
It kinda reminds me of the "Real vs. Fake" ALPS conversations. At least there was concrete evidence there, though.
-
[In Grandpa Simpson voice] Children these days don't know how to troll... In my days, we knew how to troll...
-
Clearly this is the best keyboard ever made. Why on Earth would you want legends printed on your beautiful keys? Every keyboard should have plenty of room right above the key for the legend. IBM wins yet again.
But hey, no key wear! Maybe Filco should try that!
*runs for cover*
-
To the hills!
-
The only time you can honestly post about having the "best" keyboard, is when you understand that it is only the best for you.
I love my Buckling Springs, (2 M's an M13 and an F on the way), but, I also quite like Alps, Monterey's and Cherries. It depends how my wrists and fingers are feeling as to what I want to use, and for that day, it will be the best for me, at that point in time.
I dare say that when the F I am getting off Meltie arrives, it will stay on my tray for at least a few weeks (Displacing the M13), probably longer if all the hype is true. But I will still use the Cherry I brought into work for a few hours. Neither is better than the other, just suited to the environments they are in.
-
Even the M13 vs F thing is not entirely clear cut. Model F is much nicer to type on, but the Trackpoint on the M13 makes up for it's shortcuttings. It's nice to be able to control your computer from the one unit.
-
Even the M13 vs F thing is not entirely clear cut. Model F is much nicer to type on, but the Trackpoint on the M13 makes up for it's shortcuttings. It's nice to be able to control your computer from the one unit.
In all honesty, I rarely use the Trackpoint. It seems to be highly ingrained in me to use a "normal" mouse. I have to admit to liking the colour more than anything. I will be acquiring a set of Black Blanks for it too, if Bruce from TheKeyboardCompany can get a line on them. I suspect they will be popular in Europe as a whole if he can. I suspect that the F will suit my very heavy handed style far better, as I bottom out both Buckling Springs and Cherry Blacks.
-
Well, if you can deal with the strange layout, you should have no problems.
Btw, when you say you need large numbers of Alps, do Black ones count?
-
I decided to get the best keyboard
If this is truly the case, contrary to popular believe, then get this
(http://www.tunepiano.com/almatadema.jpg) is what I consider to be one of the best.
-
Well, if you can deal with the strange layout, you should have no problems.
Btw, when you say you need large numbers of Alps, do Black ones count?
They do indeed. I am replacing the very worn Pinks in my Wang 724.
-
I might be able to send you some when I get around to clearing up my stack of computer-related stuff. Don't count on that happening too soon though!
-
It would be most appreciated. I am not in a hurry and am fairly time-constrained myself (2 year old daughter!).
When you dig them out, PM me and we'll sort something out.
-
While I think I'll wait before going for a Topre, when I looked on the site and saw
http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,realforce&pid=rf_se0200
had 103 keys instead of 104, and the Windows keys were small keys, so that the Alt and Ctrl keys had their original sizes as on the 101-key layout... I was impressed.
And the little ad blurb about how airlines use them at checkout counters to get more accurate typing... while that may not do much to sell me on the keyboard, the fact that some sector of the corporate world finds a keyboard with such a good reputation here worth buying fills me with some degree of joy.
What with exia's earlier posts, I was expecting that his pick for the "best" keyboard would be some horrible thing; I'm glad to see he decided not to troll for once.
EDIT: Also, I took my Fujitsu Peerless, and connected it to my computer a few days ago. Initially, I noticed the strange feel that others mentioned. But now I don't feel a thing wrong with it. Evidently, it's making worse my ham-handed tendency to bottom out just about any keyboard. Which may mean that a Model M is about the only decent keyboard I dare to try typing on.
-
The 103U is awesome.
I would love to try a low mileage Fujitsu "peerless". If I could find one where all the keys were equally smooth, I would give it a week of dedicated use and see what my opinion was on it then. The alpha keys on the 2 I have are like butter but some of the keys I reach for aren't, maybe I need to lube up the BS and Enter keys or something and give them a go. I've said it before but if you think about it, the Fujitsu really is kind of like a reverse Topre.
Another thing I need to try is a modded Model M...
-
I have yet to see anywhere else with a better price for Topres.
-
Best is subjective... I think a Model F AT is superior in terms of tactility, and build quality.
Then again, I like switches with a higher actuation force.
No no, Model F XT is the superior board. ;)
-
No no, Model F XT is the superior board. ;)
Beam Springs.
-
Rather than spend $30 to get the inferior model M and then have to replace it down in the future with a superior keyboard i have decided to take a leap and go for the best keyboard and be done with it.
Ok I'm a month late to this post but 30 dollars does not a Model M buy. If you want to find a broken down, used Model M and pay 30 dollars for it, how much do you think a shiny new Filco is going to be worth 20 years from now when it gets equivalent use?
In no way is the Model M inferior to any commonly available keyboard.
-
Rather than spend $30 to get the inferior model M and then have to replace it down in the future with a superior keyboard i have decided to take a leap and go for the best keyboard and be done with it.
This is the one: http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se1800
Of course what they are asking for is about $50 too much by my estimates on what the keyboard is really worth. Is there another recommended store I can consider checking out? Or how about some price drops in the near future?
And the keyboard is rubber dome! who says rubber dome keyboards aren't good haha? plus the keyboard won't sound like machine gun fire when i type either.
he says he is going to buy it then states it costs $50 too much then asks about possible future price drops....
spam imho...
-
It's referred to as "trolling".
-
I just love how he's talking about how rubber domes are superior to Model M keyboards and trying to rub it in our faces.
-
He's a troll, along with another notable poster on this site(^^^). the chances of him beating his rubber dome addiction and actually buying a godamn mechanical keyboard are the same as the chances of me bowing down to the superior nature of a PC Jr keyboard.
If you haven't discovered the joy of your Ignore list, I suggest that you use exia's post's as a trial run. it's an instant to your time spent on geekhack, and feels almost as good as finding a NIB Model F AT in your trash, just waiting for you to fish it out.
-
If you haven't discovered the joy of your Ignore list...
Yeah, but you miss all the hijinx and hilarity.
-
Yeah, but you miss all the hijinx and hilarity.
Hmm. I think I have them blocked by mistake. Is that the exact spelling of their names?
-
Hmm. I think I have them blocked by mistake. Is that the exact spelling of their names?
No, I think switched to Dvorak on accident. It's "E-X-I-A" and "M-I-C-R-O-S-O-F-T- -W-I-N-D-O-W-S."
-
are the same as the chances of me bowing down to the superior nature of a PC Jr keyboard.
Whoa whoa whoa... back the **** up! My PC Jr chicklet keyboard is skinnable! You can't beat that with a half-gallon tub of Mike J's Fat Free Motion Lotion.
-
You all think I'm that bad?
-
No. I think ItlnStln was just goofing around.
This. I work with kids all day, too, but I don't think it's in the same context.
-
You can't beat that with a half-gallon tub of Mike J's Fat Free Motion Lotion.
This had me rollin'.
-
You all think I'm that bad?
Nah, you're just drawn that way.
-
Whoa whoa whoa... back the **** up! My PC Jr chicklet keyboard is skinnable! You can't beat that with a half-gallon tub of Mike J's Fat Free Motion Lotion.
But according to MS Windows view on all things keyboard, I could beat the **** out of it with an M ;-)
-
You could beat it easily with a Model M in a typing speed test.