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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Donk on Sat, 23 July 2016, 20:12:55

Title: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: Donk on Sat, 23 July 2016, 20:12:55: MY GF spilled white wine on my '87 Model M SSK. Not kicking her out, but not burying my SSK either. Not yet anyway. Fortunately I am typing this on my full-sized spare, a mildly yellowed but real solid Model M class of 1990. But I'd like to repair the SSK, for reasons implicit we should all understand.
After the spill, I lost about a half dozen keys that still work somewhat, if by working you mean generating garbage characters. The rest of the keys work just fine. So it would seem that some signal is getting through the drunken membrane.
Is there any ~~hope~~ downside to disassembling and soaking the key barrel/spring/membrane/steel plate assembly in pure alcohol (and then fully drying, of course.)
I'd like toavoid the rivet to screw -> multitest and conductively repaint the membrane circuits route.
It seems SSK replacement membranes are not an option (or are they?)
I'd hate to retire this keyboard permanently. If so, I'd prolly bury at sea... But how hard is it to execute this repair? The case isn't even yellowed at all.
I'm just bummed all the repair shops are gone (or are they?)
FWIW, it was a rather dry Sauvignon Blanc.
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 23 July 2016, 20:45:21: The bolt mod is intimidating the first time you do it. The only hard part is drilling several dozen very small holes very precisely. If you have a Dremel and steady hands it is not too bad.

By peeling all of the layers apart, you can clean every single piece immaculately, and have a better keyboard in the end.

Otherwise, capillary action has soaked solvents and glues into closed tight spaces where thin metal traces are printed on plastic sheets .....
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: E TwentyNine on Sat, 23 July 2016, 21:09:29: There's no downside to the isoprop alcohol bath. I'd pour it through a few times, not let the assembly soak in a tub of it. A few pours, let it dry, put the keys back on that were malfunctioning, see how it acts, repeat if necessary.

Then if it doesn't work only then would I go for the full bath.

Don't go stampeding toward a bolt mod. That's overkill as an early step and is always an option is the simpler things fail.
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 24 July 2016, 02:23:20: Phosphorglow is having a break.

Unicomp has a repair service: http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/Repair
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: Donk on Sun, 24 July 2016, 14:38:27: Thanks for all your sage advice. I'm actually looking to buy a relic Model M and practice the bolt mod on that one first. Thats after I get my SSK working again. Its in pretty good shape I think. I can hear one broken off rivet-melt banging around inside the bottom of the case though.
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: strafe on Mon, 25 July 2016, 18:19:03: I would at least disassemble and clean your ssk for now. Wine is corrosive (acid and sugar aren't nice to metals).
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: Donk on Tue, 26 July 2016, 12:47:59: Unicomp won't service SSKs at all.
Phosphor Glow is offline, and perhaps OOB.
I'm loathe to learn how to disassemble on my own KB in otherwise very good condition.

Support at Unicom assertively advised against an alcohol bath will likely make the membrane probs worse.
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: E TwentyNine on Tue, 26 July 2016, 14:08:06: Quote from: Donk on Tue, 26 July 2016, 12:47:59
Support at Unicom assertively advised against an alcohol bath will likely make the membrane probs worse.

What, is the keyboard going to explode? It *could* spread the gunk elsewhere in the membrane, or it could flush it out. If the latter you're set. If the former and it's a problem, you're back to a bolt mod anyway, which is where you started.
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: romevi on Tue, 26 July 2016, 14:13:52: Ha ha, talk about a vintage board. :))
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 26 July 2016, 14:23:56: Quote from: Donk on Tue, 26 July 2016, 12:47:59

Support at Unicom assertively advised against an alcohol bath will likely make the membrane probs worse.

I don't know how metallic traces are printed on plastic sheets, but a solvent like alcohol can't be a good soak. I will admit that a quick wipe-down with an alcohol-soaked paper towel is my go-to cleaning procedure for a lot of things, including the printed membranes, but it is a quick wipe that evaporates in seconds. And, of course, they are separated so I can see clearly what needs to be done.
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: Moistgun on Tue, 26 July 2016, 14:25:11: I vote for the bolt-mod option.

I can see his point about stampeding towards a bolt mod being overkill, but lets be honest, so is using a $200 25 year old SSK and talking about it on a forum with other weirdos.

The bolt mod will introduce you to the inner makings of your keyboard, allow you to give it the cleaning it deserves, and will become sturdier in the process.

Quote from: romevi on Tue, 26 July 2016, 14:13:52
Ha ha, talk about a vintage board. :))

God damn it, Shoo!
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: thebeae on Tue, 26 July 2016, 15:07:50: RIP,

But as most people are suggesting bolt modding would probably be the best solution.
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: mrhead on Tue, 26 July 2016, 15:10:59: I'm almost positive it can be repaired. The bolt mod isn't difficult. I did mine (Model M - full size) and only used a dozen nuts/bolts. Where are you located?
Title: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 26 July 2016, 17:01:44: Bolt modding is easy. Ive done about 5 boards now. takes maybe 2 hours for me to do a bolt mod. Ive never done a ssk, but phosphorglow has a good guide on bolt modding.
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: Donk on Tue, 26 July 2016, 19:10:49: I can pull off the screw job, its finding and fixing the traces on the membrane that seem off-putting. Also, I think Phosphor_glow has taken his videos private. Whats the best guide available for this?
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: fknraiden on Tue, 26 July 2016, 20:00:31: Quote from: Donk on Tue, 26 July 2016, 19:10:49
I can pull off the screw job, its finding and fixing the traces on the membrane that seem off-putting. Also, I think Phosphor_glow has taken his videos private. Whats the best guide available for this?

umm, haven't tried it, but if its just the traces and not the contact pads, you could probably try some sort of copper paper? or one of those conductive pens and draw it back in.
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: E TwentyNine on Tue, 26 July 2016, 20:27:00: Copper tape does work, but is $$$ last I checked. The conductive pens suck.

I've used foil tape (the kind used in HVAC) with success, and have also used a combination of foil tape and thin copper wire (from a stranded wire) to rewire an M membrane for use in my homemade SSK. Ain't pretty, but typing on it at the moment.

In this situation the traces aren't damaged, just bridged. Cleaning them (whether by alcohol flush or opening it up) will fix the problem.
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 27 July 2016, 00:12:27: I recently did the bolt mod on my Model M as a first timer, its a bit intimidating like a few others have said but its not that bad when you get the hang of it. Ripster (dont kill me) has a good guide with pics

The wine probably got in between the membranes etc, causing them to malfunction. When you get everything apart clean with isopropyl alcohol and you can just wash the case by hand. DONT use hot water or the dish washer or anything like that. That is how you ruin cases.
RIP
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73372.0;attach=104708;image)
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: QuincyJones on Wed, 27 July 2016, 07:30:34: But... but... this guy seems SOOOO cool AND intelligent! He can't be doing with chinese pieces OF SHIIIITT. He types 90 ****ING THOUSAND words per minute. He's not lying, right?

Also, alcohol decays traces on membranes. Check the traces.

Quote from: Mattr567 on Wed, 27 July 2016, 00:12:27
I recently did the bolt mod on my Model M as a first timer, its a bit intimidating like a few others have said but its not that bad when you get the hang of it. Ripster (dont kill me) has a good guide with pics

The wine probably got in between the membranes etc, causing them to malfunction. When you get everything apart clean with isopropyl alcohol and you can just wash the case by hand. DONT use hot water or the dish washer or anything like that. That is how you ruin cases.
RIP
Show Image
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73372.0;attach=104708;image)
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 27 July 2016, 09:15:10: Quote from: Mattr567 on Wed, 27 July 2016, 00:12:27
I recently did the bolt mod on my Model M as a first timer, its a bit intimidating like a few others have said but its not that bad when you get the hang of it. Ripster (dont kill me) has a good guide with pics

The wine probably got in between the membranes etc, causing them to malfunction. When you get everything apart clean with isopropyl alcohol and you can just wash the case by hand. DONT use hot water or the dish washer or anything like that. That is how you ruin cases.
RIP
Show Image
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73372.0;attach=104708;image)

Atleast the displaywriter caps survived.
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: mrhead on Wed, 27 July 2016, 09:21:30: Quote from: Mattr567 on Wed, 27 July 2016, 00:12:27
I recently did the bolt mod on my Model M as a first timer, its a bit intimidating like a few others have said but its not that bad when you get the hang of it. Ripster (dont kill me) has a good guide with pics

The wine probably got in between the membranes etc, causing them to malfunction. When you get everything apart clean with isopropyl alcohol and you can just wash the case by hand. DONT use hot water or the dish washer or anything like that. That is how you ruin cases.
RIP
Show Image
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73372.0;attach=104708;image)

Did YOU do this?
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 27 July 2016, 12:38:23: Quote from: QuincyJones on Wed, 27 July 2016, 07:30:34
But... but... this guy seems SOOOO cool AND intelligent! He can't be doing with chinese pieces OF SHIIIITT. He types 90 ****ING THOUSAND words per minute. He's not lying, right?

Also, alcohol decays traces on membranes. Check the traces.

Quote from: Mattr567 on Wed, 27 July 2016, 00:12:27
I recently did the bolt mod on my Model M as a first timer, its a bit intimidating like a few others have said but its not that bad when you get the hang of it. Ripster (dont kill me) has a good guide with pics

The wine probably got in between the membranes etc, causing them to malfunction. When you get everything apart clean with isopropyl alcohol and you can just wash the case by hand. DONT use hot water or the dish washer or anything like that. That is how you ruin cases.
RIP
Show Image
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73372.0;attach=104708;image)

Oh, didnt know that. Important to know! If they are covered in wine then you can gently run water over them I guess.
Quote from: mrhead on Wed, 27 July 2016, 09:21:30
Quote from: Mattr567 on Wed, 27 July 2016, 00:12:27
I recently did the bolt mod on my Model M as a first timer, its a bit intimidating like a few others have said but its not that bad when you get the hang of it. Ripster (dont kill me) has a good guide with pics

The wine probably got in between the membranes etc, causing them to malfunction. When you get everything apart clean with isopropyl alcohol and you can just wash the case by hand. DONT use hot water or the dish washer or anything like that. That is how you ruin cases.
RIP
Show Image
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73372.0;attach=104708;image)

Did YOU do this?
Hell no! :p I just remembered it from a really old thread and found it.
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: E TwentyNine on Wed, 27 July 2016, 13:50:06: Quote from: Mattr567 on Wed, 27 July 2016, 12:38:23
Hell no! :p I just remembered it from a really old thread and found it.

I don't know what that person had their hot water set at, but I've run model M cases and barrel plates through the dishwasher without issue.
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 27 July 2016, 15:05:31: Quote from: E TwentyNine on Wed, 27 July 2016, 13:50:06
Quote from: Mattr567 on Wed, 27 July 2016, 12:38:23
Hell no! :p I just remembered it from a really old thread and found it.

I don't know what that person had their hot water set at, but I've run model M cases and barrel plates through the dishwasher without issue.
Apparently he put it in boiling water and then dried it with a hairdryer :eek: Still better safe than sorry though. Hot water is unnecessary anyway.
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: gameaholic on Thu, 28 July 2016, 10:06:52: If you tilt it maybe you can still drink the wine. 😉
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: kingpilcrow on Thu, 28 July 2016, 10:51:45: This thread is full of winers.
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 29 July 2016, 01:51:56: Quote from: kingpilcrow on Thu, 28 July 2016, 10:51:45
This thread is full of winers.

A pun.

Ahaha.
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: QuincyJones on Fri, 29 July 2016, 02:42:29: This thread is a barrel of laughs.
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 29 July 2016, 03:05:43: Quote from: QuincyJones on Fri, 29 July 2016, 02:42:29
This thread is a barrel of laughs.

Like a Model M with funny springs?
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: romevi on Fri, 29 July 2016, 09:47:13: Quote from: QuincyJones on Fri, 29 July 2016, 02:42:29
This thread is a barrel of laughs.

;)
Title: Re: Please help deliver my Model M SSK from wine spill to clacky redemption
Post by: mrhead on Mon, 08 August 2016, 10:40:37: Any updates OP? If not, I politely request that you mail the keyboard in question to my residence.