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geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: noisyturtle on Tue, 26 July 2016, 16:21:38
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I cannot remember a single time in my adult life I had a discussion about politics that didn't leave me frustrated and annoyed. And the catch 22 is that when I tell people I don't like talking about politics for that very reason the response is often "Well you're only doing yourself a disservice" or something equivalent, which ironically also leaves me feeling frustrated and annoyed. :-\
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I cannot remember a single time in my adult life I had a discussion about politics that didn't leave me frustrated and annoyed. And the catch 22 is that when I tell people I don't like talking about politics for that very reason the response is often "Well you're only doing yourself a disservice" or something equivalent, which ironically also leaves me feeling frustrated and annoyed. :-\
Talk to Hoffman about politics. He makes you think, and isn't closed minded when you offer your own opinions.
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I think my profile picture speaks for itself in terms of politics.
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Whenever I talk to anyone about politics I generally try to limit it to listening to their opinions. I like hearing other perspectives on issues but I find that you have to look at it just as an opinion. Most people don't want another persons opinion as their beliefs are already embedded in their mind therefore they are just pushing their understanding and are not receptive to new information. Because of this, most talks turn into monkey **** slinging matches with people getting the ****s because you don't conform to their way of thinking. In reality politics should not be viewed as all or nothing, you may support a party or policy but there is nothing wrong with opposing specific areas.
In the end the majority of people are just spewing out what they have been told or heard/read in the news so they really have no idea anyway. When you try to argue for something but all you know is that Trump is building a wall then there isn't really anywhere to go so people just get the ****s instead.
When it comes to Australian politics, I think that the Greens are a bunch of wanker ****s that do nothing but piss, moan and ride their ivory tower around the countryside. Even so I respect the fact that within Australian society there is a portion of the population that aligns with their values so their ideas have a place. I think they also act as a necessary balance, probably preventing some serious environmental destruction that may take place without them. So even though I see them as ****s that inhale their own methane, I am glad they exist. I think that most people don't look at it like that hence the reason everything is a faeces eating contest.
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Most people don't want another persons opinion as their beliefs are already embedded in their mind therefore they are just pushing their understanding and are not receptive to new information.
This is spot on. It's rarely even a discussion, implying a back and fourth in the conversational flow, but more often just two people trying to convince the other person they are right with varying degrees of subtlety.
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This and religion. I think both are often profoundly personal beliefs that are deeply tied to one's sense of identity so it makes sense that some people would go nuts even over a benign discussion if their beliefs were challenged.
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Don't start such discussions yourself, and if you get drawn into such a discussion do your best to turn it around to make the other person feel as uncomfortable as possible so that they don't raise the subject again.
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Yes, once you achieve a greater understanding of the banalities of human existence, discussing them with the unenlightened can be somewhat of a trap. If I discuss anything, I discuss the issues themselves and the data and logic behind it. Often, politics ends up being based on emotional fits and personal bias, so it's best to just talk about the facts if you still want to be involved in civic duties without being dragged into the "game" so much. Television news, for instance, often ignores actual scientific analysis of topics and ends up being a bunch of noisy blathering egos. Often times, scientific analysis is so taboo, it wouldn't be talked about in any public forum, anyway. Just the mention of it can cause hysteria (calls of racism, sexism, etc. and especially when people exclaim how "offended" they are) and at that point, the conversation is over.
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I talk to a former professor about the world of politics and I always leave feeling like I had a great conversation. Probably helps that he is older and a U.S history professor but it can also be the setting.
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An old fart told me once, never talk about religion or politics at work...it's good advice.
Politics is useless argument... people get mad, why? You're arguing about something you have no control over....."well you can vote"...ok you just won...not the way it works. You're American, your're sold on the idea you have rights, you don't.. we have a good economy, THAT'S why people are here. The minute China takes over I'll be moving to Hong Kong.
You mind as well debate over whether double IPA or wheat beer is better...or pepperoni vs sausage on a pizza...it's actually relevant and no one leaves upset from the conversation.
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wheat beer is better and IPA tastes like vomit.
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An old fart told me once, never talk about religion or politics at work...it's good advice.
Politics is useless argument... people get mad, why? You're arguing about something you have no control over....."well you can vote"...ok you just won...not the way it works. You're American, your're sold on the idea you have rights, you don't.. we have a good economy, THAT'S why people are here. The minute China takes over I'll be moving to Hong Kong.
You mind as well debate over whether double IPA or wheat beer is better...or pepperoni vs sausage on a pizza...it's actually relevant and no one leaves upset from the conversation.
That's why I think it's best to just try to grasp a better understanding of things for intellectual curiosity. You may not be able to change the world, or some such grand thing, but you could help yourself change into a better person, and from that, you can better help others if you want.
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An old fart told me once, never talk about religion or politics at work...it's good advice.
Politics is useless argument... people get mad, why? You're arguing about something you have no control over....."well you can vote"...ok you just won...not the way it works. You're American, your're sold on the idea you have rights, you don't.. we have a good economy, THAT'S why people are here. The minute China takes over I'll be moving to Hong Kong.
You mind as well debate over whether double IPA or wheat beer is better...or pepperoni vs sausage on a pizza...it's actually relevant and no one leaves upset from the conversation.
That's why I think it's best to just try to grasp a better understanding of things for intellectual curiosity. You may not be able to change the world, or some such grand thing, but you could help yourself change into a better person, and from that, you can better help others if you want.
Totally agree...I can't stop looking at your avatar btw, it's so superior to the human race!
btw Demik - try Green Flash Double IPA from San Diego (purple label)...might get you off those Corona's =0
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An old fart told me once, never talk about religion or politics at work...it's good advice.
Politics is useless argument... people get mad, why? You're arguing about something you have no control over....."well you can vote"...ok you just won...not the way it works. You're American, your're sold on the idea you have rights, you don't.. we have a good economy, THAT'S why people are here. The minute China takes over I'll be moving to Hong Kong.
You mind as well debate over whether double IPA or wheat beer is better...or pepperoni vs sausage on a pizza...it's actually relevant and no one leaves upset from the conversation.
That's why I think it's best to just try to grasp a better understanding of things for intellectual curiosity. You may not be able to change the world, or some such grand thing, but you could help yourself change into a better person, and from that, you can better help others if you want.
Totally agree...I can't stop looking at your avatar btw, it's so superior to the human race!
btw Demik - try Green Flash Double IPA from San Diego (purple label)...might get you off those Corona's =0
Yeah, he's the ultimate being there!
I just thought of something relating to this.
For me at work, for instance. I work with many people who I wouldn't get along with in religious or political discussions. I'm pretty sure all my opinions and viewpoints wouldn't be popular even though I've tried to stick with being objective as possible. But what I do is use what I've learned from my quest to understand humanity, to try to connect with people like coworkers on a more fundamental level. It seems really simple but it's taken me awhile to get there. But I just realize how we are all emotional beings and I just try to understand that not everyone can or will get past some of their own hangups. I certainly will never get past all of mine... but I use that to just try to give positive energy when I can. I'm not always able to. Sometimes I just need to say what I want to say. But, in situations where I absolutely must maintain a distance, like at work, I just try to relate with others on that fundamental level, that we are all humans and flawed, and we all have to go through bull****, and eventually die. I may not be able to convey that always in a direct manner, but somehow, I try.
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An old fart told me once, never talk about religion or politics at work...it's good advice.
Politics is useless argument... people get mad, why? You're arguing about something you have no control over....."well you can vote"...ok you just won...not the way it works. You're American, your're sold on the idea you have rights, you don't.. we have a good economy, THAT'S why people are here. The minute China takes over I'll be moving to Hong Kong.
You mind as well debate over whether double IPA or wheat beer is better...or pepperoni vs sausage on a pizza...it's actually relevant and no one leaves upset from the conversation.
That's why I think it's best to just try to grasp a better understanding of things for intellectual curiosity. You may not be able to change the world, or some such grand thing, but you could help yourself change into a better person, and from that, you can better help others if you want.
Totally agree...I can't stop looking at your avatar btw, it's so superior to the human race!
btw Demik - try Green Flash Double IPA from San Diego (purple label)...might get you off those Corona's =0
Yeah, he's the ultimate being there!
I just thought of something relating to this.
For me at work, for instance. I work with many people who I wouldn't get along with in religious or political discussions. I'm pretty sure all my opinions and viewpoints wouldn't be popular even though I've tried to stick with being objective as possible. But what I do is use what I've learned from my quest to understand humanity, to try to connect with people like coworkers on a more fundamental level. It seems really simple but it's taken me awhile to get there. But I just realize how we are all emotional beings and I just try to understand that not everyone can or will get past some of their own hangups. I certainly will never get past all of mine... but I use that to just try to give positive energy when I can. I'm not always able to. Sometimes I just need to say what I want to say. But, in situations where I absolutely must maintain a distance, like at work, I just try to relate with others on that fundamental level, that we are all humans and flawed, and we all have to go through bull****, and eventually die. I may not be able to convey that always in a direct manner, but somehow, I try.
If only we could all agree to disagree the world would get on just fine.
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An old fart told me once, never talk about religion or politics at work...it's good advice.
Politics is useless argument... people get mad, why? You're arguing about something you have no control over....."well you can vote"...ok you just won...not the way it works. You're American, your're sold on the idea you have rights, you don't.. we have a good economy, THAT'S why people are here. The minute China takes over I'll be moving to Hong Kong.
You mind as well debate over whether double IPA or wheat beer is better...or pepperoni vs sausage on a pizza...it's actually relevant and no one leaves upset from the conversation.
That's why I think it's best to just try to grasp a better understanding of things for intellectual curiosity. You may not be able to change the world, or some such grand thing, but you could help yourself change into a better person, and from that, you can better help others if you want.
Totally agree...I can't stop looking at your avatar btw, it's so superior to the human race!
btw Demik - try Green Flash Double IPA from San Diego (purple label)...might get you off those Corona's =0
Yeah, he's the ultimate being there!
I just thought of something relating to this.
For me at work, for instance. I work with many people who I wouldn't get along with in religious or political discussions. I'm pretty sure all my opinions and viewpoints wouldn't be popular even though I've tried to stick with being objective as possible. But what I do is use what I've learned from my quest to understand humanity, to try to connect with people like coworkers on a more fundamental level. It seems really simple but it's taken me awhile to get there. But I just realize how we are all emotional beings and I just try to understand that not everyone can or will get past some of their own hangups. I certainly will never get past all of mine... but I use that to just try to give positive energy when I can. I'm not always able to. Sometimes I just need to say what I want to say. But, in situations where I absolutely must maintain a distance, like at work, I just try to relate with others on that fundamental level, that we are all humans and flawed, and we all have to go through bull****, and eventually die. I may not be able to convey that always in a direct manner, but somehow, I try.
Yeah my viewpoints certainly aren't the norm at my workplace either but I just try not to piss people off. That's my whole thing, we gotta work here together but that doesn't mean the time spent has to be miserable.
Some people will like you some will hate you it's just the way the world works apparently.
I do think what you wrote is very true though, and I agree completely.
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An old fart told me once, never talk about religion or politics at work...it's good advice.
This is absolutely true. Politics and religion should be taboo subjects in any profession setting.
On a personal level, there are 2 ways that these things play out:
Some concepts are manifestations of opinions, which can be diametrically opposed, and no amount of fact or research is likely to have any effect. Abortion rights and gun rights being 2 of the most egregious examples here. Or how about the validity of religion and/or the separation of Church and State? Your chances of changing someone's opinions on emotional issues like these are probably nil.
Other opinions should be fact-based, and facts should always be validated. Due to various conditions in the media today, vast quantities of "bad information" are being pumped into the public discourse, without fact-checking (possibly due to carelessness or laziness) or (more likely) with deliberate intent to deceive.
My wife, a magazine editor who has been in the industry for decades, feels morally compelled to submit every word to rigorous and thorough fact-checking before it goes out, usually multiple times by multiple people.
So for me, when I am confronted by something like watching the Fox TV station, I am appalled at the breathtaking audacity of lies and misinformation that they present - with straight faces. And I am even more appalled when I talk to someone like my father-in-law (an old man suffering from dementia, but others have less excuse) who watches that crap and actually believes it to be factual.
It is impossible to converse with people who have no regard for truth, and who sometimes actively avoid it when they know, somewhere in the backs of their minds, that it will invalidate their opinions.
Need to build a wall on the Mexican border? Net Mexico-to-US immigration has been near zero for half a decade.
Was Ronald Reagan a fiscal conservative? He raised taxes a dozen times and tripled the national debt.
Never make your decisions without verifying the facts from a neutral, 3rd-party source. Just like science.
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Politics bring out the worst in most people. It's better left alone imo. I have my views and I typically keep them to myself.