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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: username2 on Sun, 14 August 2016, 10:26:25

Title: Help planning keyboard
Post by: username2 on Sun, 14 August 2016, 10:26:25
hi i am considering to make a custom keyboard (new at this). Im first trying to select what parts i need...

I remember seeing some kind of individual pcb for each key that you could attach in whatever shape you like. where can i find these and do you recommend them? Also i would like to have very flat keys if possible similar to what is on "dome" keyboard. can anyone recommend what switches and keys to buy for this? what else will i need to make a simple keyboard? thanks.
Title: Re: Help planning keyboard
Post by: Moistgun on Sun, 14 August 2016, 10:30:40
Quote from: username2 on Sun, 14 August 2016, 10:26:25
hi i am considering to make a custom keyboard (new at this). Im first trying to select what parts i need...

I remember seeing some kind of individual pcb for each key that you could attach in whatever shape you like. where can i find these and do you recommend them? Also i would like to have very flat keys if possible similar to what is on "dome" keyboard. can anyone recommend what switches and keys to buy for this? what else will i need to make a simple keyboard? thanks.

As far as the caps go, you probably want G20 caps. 
(http://cdn6.bigcommerce.com/s-ktpi93fl/products/101/images/427/G20_6__28716.1434485205.1280.1280.jpg?c=2)

I never heard of the pcb you are talking about.
Title: Re: Help planning keyboard
Post by: romevi on Sun, 14 August 2016, 10:34:37


Quote from: Moistgun on Sun, 14 August 2016, 10:30:40
Quote from: username2 on Sun, 14 August 2016, 10:26:25
hi i am considering to make a custom keyboard (new at this). Im first trying to select what parts i need...

I remember seeing some kind of individual pcb for each key that you could attach in whatever shape you like. where can i find these and do you recommend them? Also i would like to have very flat keys if possible similar to what is on "dome" keyboard. can anyone recommend what switches and keys to buy for this? what else will i need to make a simple keyboard? thanks.

As
I never heard of the pcb you are talking about.


Maybe the Enabler?

http://techkeys.us/collections/accessories/products/the-enabler
Title: Re: Help planning keyboard
Post by: username2 on Sun, 14 August 2016, 10:36:55
ya that was it. is it recommended for a beginner or is it easier to use custom pcb?
Title: Re: Help planning keyboard
Post by: xondat on Sun, 14 August 2016, 10:37:52
You'd be better of handwiring.
Title: Re: Help planning keyboard
Post by: Moistgun on Sun, 14 August 2016, 10:46:40
Quote from: username2 on Sun, 14 August 2016, 10:36:55
ya that was it. is it recommended for a beginner or is it easier to use custom pcb?

That is not the best bet for a beginner.

I would recommend either using a very versatile PCB with a universal plate, or as Xondat said, handwire.
Title: Re: Help planning keyboard
Post by: username2 on Sun, 14 August 2016, 17:40:18
At first i wanted to do a whole keyboard but i would probably just want something like this (the use is for a game)

(http://i.imgur.com/Jiz5s6w.png)

wouldnt i need a custom pcb to make it at least a little sturdy?
Title: Re: Help planning keyboard
Post by: duynguyenle on Sun, 14 August 2016, 18:15:45
Quote from: username2 on Sun, 14 August 2016, 17:40:18
At first i wanted to do a whole keyboard but i would probably just want something like this (the use is for a game)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Jiz5s6w.png)


wouldnt i need a custom pcb to make it at least a little sturdy?

Yeah... for that you're gonna want to generate a plate, get it cut and then handwire it.
Title: Re: Help planning keyboard
Post by: username2 on Sun, 14 August 2016, 19:49:34
i just discovered the keyboard maker and then the plate maker. It seems really convenient. I read that typically 1.75 and higher uses stabilizers so i guess i dont need those. And since it looks like im hand wiring it i guess the plain square cutout is fine as it suggests.

I have some questions...  Do i need to worry about this thing called kerf? i dont really understand it. also do i just show those 3 files to a machine shop or something? where should i look to get this made and what will the price be like? please keep in mind im new to this. thanks



Title: Re: Help planning keyboard
Post by: xondat on Sun, 14 August 2016, 19:53:35
It's 2u and up.

Do you have to worry about kerf? Depends - ask the people that make the plates for you. Create the files and send them the DXF files. I can't say anything about US shops, perhaps someone else can comment on that.

My advice is to keep the holes 3mm diameter and use M3 screws; 7/8mm buffer on each edge is fine. 12mm standoffs is plenty, you can probably do 10mm. If you need any help, feel free to PM me.
Title: Re: Help planning keyboard
Post by: username2 on Sun, 14 August 2016, 20:29:49
im pretty confused how the plate works. am i selecting a single plate that it rests on or is it some kind of double plate that sandwiches the switches? it also appears to draw me a case when i select sandwich option im just confused how it all works.
Title: Re: Help planning keyboard
Post by: Moistgun on Sun, 14 August 2016, 21:16:00
Kerf is the width of the blade that is doing the cutting

Lets say your width of the cut is 10mm and your blade is .1mm.

They would essentially cut out 8mm and the with of the blade would make up the extra 1mm + 1mm = the full ten

If your dxf file says you want a 10mm wide theyll deal with the kerf



There is a bottom part, this would be the case.  it is basically a metal or acrylic plate that encloses and protects your wiring.

The plate that most people refer to is what holds all of the switches in its configuration, while suspending the switches inside of the case...  here is an example from Xondats custom X60 keyboard.

(https://i.imgur.com/KqWl553.png)

notice how the top red part is floating to allow for space for the switches and wiring, while the bottom black and bronze section is a metal case bottom.
Title: Re: Help planning keyboard
Post by: username2 on Mon, 15 August 2016, 12:26:45
ahh i see, i guess ill just start with the plate to test the layout i want, and try to get it all working. it seems i''m ready to get the design cut, what material/thickness should i use?

also what supplies am i going to need to get started? some kind of wire, some kind of cpu, tools etc? im researching as i go but any help is appreciated.
Title: Re: Help planning keyboard
Post by: Moistgun on Mon, 15 August 2016, 13:23:02
Quote from: username2 on Mon, 15 August 2016, 12:26:45
ahh i see, i guess ill just start with the plate to test the layout i want, and try to get it all working. it seems i''m ready to get the design cut, what material/thickness should i use?

also what supplies am i going to need to get started? some kind of wire, some kind of cpu, tools etc? im researching as i go but any help is appreciated.

Usually people make plates out of acrylic, aluminum, or stainless steel. people have even made them out of wood.

You will need a soldering iron, some thin leaded solder, switches of your choosing, caps, diodes, a teensy 2.0.
Title: Re: Help planning keyboard
Post by: duynguyenle on Mon, 15 August 2016, 13:28:31
Quote from: username2 on Mon, 15 August 2016, 12:26:45
ahh i see, i guess ill just start with the plate to test the layout i want, and try to get it all working. it seems i''m ready to get the design cut, what material/thickness should i use?

also what supplies am i going to need to get started? some kind of wire, some kind of cpu, tools etc? im researching as i go but any help is appreciated.

For the switchplate, the recommended thickness for Cherry switches is 1.5mm to allow the switches to clip properly into the plate
Title: Re: Help planning keyboard
Post by: Findecanor on Mon, 15 August 2016, 15:55:03
If you choose to hand-wire Cherry MX switches in an acrylic mounting-plate then 1.5mm acrylic is too thin to be very durable. Better to make it 3 mm or thicker. Either:
* Use a thick plate and glue the switches, or
* Use a sandwich of two 1.5 mm plates where the switches clip into the top plate. Each mounting hole in the bottom plate should have small cutouts giving space to the switches' tiny clips.
* Make the plate from thick acrylic with a CNC router that cuts small depressions making the plate 1.5 mm thick only where the clips are.

Another option would be to 3D-print the plate. When you design such a "plate", you could also make it have a support structure in-between the switches to compensate for the weakness of plastic. With 3D-printing, you could also design the plate and the (top part of the) case as one single piece.

There are also variations of Cherry MX switches with mounting pins for mounting in a PCB without needing a plate. Having LEDs, diodes or jumpers will also add sturdiness.
Your design looks like it is no bigger than 10"×10". If you could get an affordable kit for etching PCBs at home with a substrate that size then making a PCB-mounted keyboard might be an option. There is a steep learning curve for PCB design though.
Title: Re: Help planning keyboard
Post by: username2 on Tue, 16 August 2016, 10:34:53
ya the design is smaller than 5 x 5 inches. i'm trying to keep the build really simple since im new at this, so i think i'll just go with a single 1.5mm steel plate and hand wire it. trying to get quote(s) atm.