geekhack
geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: tp4tissue on Sat, 20 August 2016, 12:18:41
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There is no Obfuscation..
I've explained the lore correctly as it happened..
It's unfortunate you did not receive a box..
Why is it not possible, that not all orders were fulfilled before the debacle happened..
And since we KNOW that the items were sent to the wrong places, At the time, your order could not be fulfilled, because the components had to be recovered and swapped first.
Berserk fan had every intention of doing SOMETHING for everyone, he Clearly mentioned the $2000 cash budget to work with people who's items were shipped to the wrong people and are non-recoverable..
All of this was happening, YOUR BOX, if anything was chewed up by the Thwarting of Rootwyrm..
Remember, the FIX on part of Berserk fan was IN THE WORKS.. as Rootwyrm began his idiotic campaign.
Berserk fan is at fault for the Shipping problems.. Certainly
But he had not ever been an intentional Scammer ..
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k
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k
Sure, no probs
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agree with joey on this one
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https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82065.msg2169688#msg2169688
A good many mistakes were made in the shipping out rush. Wife had to send over 80 packages within a few days and she’s not familiar with the descriptions. (And quite fed up too, so she just stuffed packages with whatever seemed right or approximately the same value.)
[...]
Those who think they are going to get money from filing complaints, sorry. You guys all got boxes of keyboard related items, some totally new or never used. If I choose to escalate your complaint to a Return, you are going to have to pay a lot of money to ship stuff back to Singapore before you get refunded. We have shipping invoices that say 5kg and 10kg of ‘keyboards’ and ‘keyboard parts’, so sending me a postcard with a tracking number is going to get you hit with a buyer fraud charge.
That's a direct quote from berserkfan. It was definitely something that spiraled out of control but in no way is berserkfan not at fault or anything.
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agree with joey on this one
You're welcome.
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https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82065.msg2169688#msg2169688
A good many mistakes were made in the shipping out rush. Wife had to send over 80 packages within a few days and she’s not familiar with the descriptions. (And quite fed up too, so she just stuffed packages with whatever seemed right or approximately the same value.)
[...]
Those who think they are going to get money from filing complaints, sorry. You guys all got boxes of keyboard related items, some totally new or never used. If I choose to escalate your complaint to a Return, you are going to have to pay a lot of money to ship stuff back to Singapore before you get refunded. We have shipping invoices that say 5kg and 10kg of ‘keyboards’ and ‘keyboard parts’, so sending me a postcard with a tracking number is going to get you hit with a buyer fraud charge.
That's a direct quote from berserkfan. It was definitely something that spiraled out of control but in no way is berserkfan not at fault or anything.
Absolutely..
He handled this poorly..
Some things were hastily written with emotional outbursts.
He is at fault for the shipping..
THere is no dispute..
I am merely explaining that the fallout was as bad as it was, because of -Rootwyrm-'s actions
Berserk fan was doing things in rectification of his error.. There was the $2000 budget for cash, ontop of Setting up proxies behind the scenes, all were on-going up until the moment --Rootwyrm-- egged everyone to file complaints locking out Berserkfan's paypal account for coordinating funding and swaps.
Berserkfan is not a scammer in the sense that he was taking the money and running.
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can you link to what rootwyrm did wrong so i can read up and make up my own private opinion on this scam thanks
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can you link to what rootwyrm did wrong so i can read up and make up my own private opinion on this scam thanks
What rootwyrm did is File paypal claim Prematurely..
he has 6 months, to file a complaint, as he himself USED PAYPAL..
6 whole months, he filed within 2 weeks, of the shipping error..
Then he got on the internet, and told EVERYONE else to file against berserkfan.. This locked out Berserkfan's paypal account , making it impossible to coordinate transfers and swaps..
Just look at the timing of his thread..
That is what he did wrong.
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Berserkfan is not a scammer in the sense that he was taking the money and running.[/b][/size]
He might not be a scammer, but he has left the situation such that he has quite a bit of money, and lots of people don't have their items.
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Berserkfan is not a scammer in the sense that he was taking the money and running.[/b][/size]
He might not be a scammer, but he has left the situation such that he has quite a bit of money, and lots of people don't have their items.
He did not leave the situation, he was FORCED OUT, when --Rootwyrm-- actively ruined the Ongoing plan to coordinate a fix..
There is no positive earnings balance on Berserkfan's side..
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can you link to what rootwyrm did wrong so i can read up and make up my own private opinion on this scam thanks
What rootwyrm did is File complaints Prematurely..
he has 6 months, to file a complaint, as he himself USED PAYPAL..
6 whole months, he filed within 2 weeks, of the shipping error..
Then he got on the internet, and told EVERYONE else to file against berserkfan..
Just look at the timing of his thread..
That is what he did wrong.
link me baby cmon
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can you link to what rootwyrm did wrong so i can read up and make up my own private opinion on this scam thanks
What rootwyrm did is File complaints Prematurely..
he has 6 months, to file a complaint, as he himself USED PAYPAL..
6 whole months, he filed within 2 weeks, of the shipping error..
Then he got on the internet, and told EVERYONE else to file against berserkfan..
Just look at the timing of his thread..
That is what he did wrong.
link me baby cmon
Link to what, just look at the old thread,
The time stamp is right there..
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can you link to what rootwyrm did wrong so i can read up and make up my own private opinion on this scam thanks
What rootwyrm did is File complaints Prematurely..
he has 6 months, to file a complaint, as he himself USED PAYPAL..
6 whole months, he filed within 2 weeks, of the shipping error..
Then he got on the internet, and told EVERYONE else to file against berserkfan..
Just look at the timing of his thread..
That is what he did wrong.
link me baby cmon
Link to what, just look at the old thread,
The time stamp is right there..
i cba looking ^-^
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i cba looking ^-^
Sure, thanks for chiming in.. You're welcome for the information..
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TP to the rescue! TP needs a theme song
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TP to the rescue! TP needs a theme song
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zt6hTDdzx6c/VcDhoOdaxiI/AAAAAAAAAVw/W2ZXV3JGSwI/s1600/image.jpg)
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1) berserkfan was a friend, so I have no personal animosity toward him over the incident;
2) I was not involved in the sale in any way, as I did not purchase anything;
BUT...
3) berserkfan was NEGLIGENT in fulfilling the terms of the sale.
When you enter into a transaction with someone, you are making a promise to send the correct item, in the condition described, for the agreed upon price. This obviously didn't happen. Saying that his wife made mistakes does not relieve him of his responsibility. He is still liable for either sending the correct item, or refunding the money he received. Period. Just because he didn't conduct the sale with the INTENTION to scam people, doesn't mean they didn't get scammed.
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1) berserkfan was a friend, so I have no personal animosity toward him over the incident;
2) I was not involved in the sale in any way, as I did not purchase anything;
BUT...
3) berserkfan was NEGLIGENT in fulfilling the terms of the sale.
When you enter into a transaction with someone, you are making a promise to send the correct item, in the condition described, for the agreed upon price. This obviously didn't happen. Saying that his wife made mistakes does not relieve him of his responsibility. He is still liable for either sending the correct item, or refunding the money he received. Period. Just because he didn't conduct the sale with the INTENTION to scam people, doesn't mean they didn't get scammed.
The outcome of many situations may be the same..
But there must be a distinction between Negligence and CRIME..
A purposeful scam would be criminal.
Berserkfan was negligent, There was never any dispute.
However, there was also no intention to Trick people into malice.
And so we must be clear when we talk about the member, when we say, he was negligent, but Not a criminal and had not intended to Scam.
And a scam, would also imply a situation where they intended to run with the money..
Berserkfan clearly stood by, until he was PUSHED OUT from being able to make the rectification happen..
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not all orders were fulfilled before the debacle happened..
What makes everything you say so asinine is that the entire premise of the sale was to clear everything out immediately.
The "debacle" is something that did not even begin to exist until weeks after all orders would have been fulfilled.
I suppose that I have no choice but to add you to my ignore list. That population has never been more than 3.
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can you link to what rootwyrm did wrong so i can read up and make up my own private opinion on this scam thanks
What rootwyrm did is File paypal claim Prematurely..
he has 6 months, to file a complaint, as he himself USED PAYPAL..
6 whole months, he filed within 2 weeks, of the shipping error..
Then he got on the internet, and told EVERYONE else to file against berserkfan.. This locked out Berserkfan's paypal account , making it impossible to coordinate transfers and swaps..
Just look at the timing of his thread..
That is what he did wrong.
Actually, that's wrong. I was the one who filed and everyone else, including Root, was telling me not to file, but to give it a while. It came to light that not only did I not receive what I was looking for, not only did Berserk stop replying when I was trying to have a reasonable conversation, not only would he not answer the simple question of how are you going to fix this... but he'd already double sold my items. Once I found that out, I knew there was no way he could correct that. One of the people he double sold to would have to have no recourse. So I took myself out of the equation by seeking my funds back from Paypal. Because I filed early, I got everything back. The original money, the fees that he charged me for using paypal, the shipping costs to ship things to a wrong address... everything. And I have no regrets about doing so, and wish others had done the same so that they could have been recompensed for their loss.
I have no animosity towards berserk, nor anyone that has anything to do with it. It was a business deal. It went wrong. He gave no indication that he was able to do anything about it, and became non responsive. So I sought recompense. It's as simple as that.
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I have no animosity towards berserk, nor anyone that has anything to do with it. It was a business deal. It went wrong. He gave no indication that he was able to do anything about it, and became non responsive. So I sought recompense. It's as simple as that.
Then you too were part of the Problem.. and an over-reaction..
All three of you, Sky, Root, and Chuckdee over-reached, and made things worse for everyone else.
That is the case..
--Rootwyrm-- has been the most verbose about this, and so I peg him the most guilty of the thwarting.
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not all orders were fulfilled before the debacle happened..
What makes everything you say so asinine is that the entire premise of the sale was to clear everything out immediately.
The "debacle" is something that did not even begin to exist until weeks after all orders would have been fulfilled.
I suppose that I have no choice but to add you to my ignore list. That population has never been more than 3.
You are refusing to see reason.. No one dispute that you didn't get a box,
No one dispute that Berserkfan made mistakes.
What IS in contention is that Berserkfan had not been a scammer, and this was NOT a setup.
The Addendum is that --Rootwyrm, sky, and chuckdee-- were among the agitators and instigators of a PREMATURE paypal claim..
These alarmists ruined the Plan to rectify the situation on part of Berserkfan....
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And additionally, to Fohat..
By siding with the problematic users from the beginning even as TP4 was telling you guys that what they're doing is making the situation worse..
YOU also contributed to the final solution which is the SAME HOLE that everyone crawled into.. Right after -Rootwyrm, chuckdee, and sky-- So congratulations, at least it's not lonely at the bottom..
From very Early, When I first began posting, I was telling you guys that to HOLD and Wait.
I wanted to explain things further very early, but Berserk said, he's already catching lots of flack, and so let's keep everything informationally sparse while coordination was taking place.
Then as it was all happening.. Rug was pulled, and it was out of His hands as everyone got on the --Rootwyrm-- wagon..
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I have no animosity towards berserk, nor anyone that has anything to do with it. It was a business deal. It went wrong. He gave no indication that he was able to do anything about it, and became non responsive. So I sought recompense. It's as simple as that.
Then you too were part of the Problem.. and an over-reaction..
All three of you, Sky, Root, and Chuckdee over-reached, and made things worse for everyone else.
That is the case..
--Rootwyrm-- has been the most verbose about this, and so I peg him the most guilty of the thwarting.
I have my money. And many others don't. Think what you want, but I'll let outcomes speak for themselves.
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Okay, so how does pointing fingers about who caused what help going forward? That's great that you've identified the 'agitators and instigators of a PREMATURE paypal claim', but none of this is helping to rectify the ****ty situation everyone is left with.
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I have my money. And many others don't. Think what you want, but I'll let outcomes speak for themselves.
And your vain victory is precisely WHY many others don't have anything..
There was a plan, you and others like you ruined it.
It wouldn't have been perfect, but it was going to be much better than what was finished with you lot.
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Okay, so how does pointing fingers about who caused what help going forward? That's great that you've identified the 'agitators and instigators of a PREMATURE paypal claim', but none of this is helping to rectify the ****ty situation everyone is left with.
It can not be rectified once it was taken away from berserk..
This thread is a continuation, as an explanation of what transpired..
The event itself has already come to an end..
The vindictive attitude taken upon by the Mob which Rootwyrm-n-company ruffled together, made certain that people who COULD run with what they received do so, and never fess up on the board..
If you got $200 for your $75, would you report ?
Had this been an amicable handling of the situation.. Perhaps, but the way --Rootwyrm-- turned things, that was never possible..
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Do you honestly think berserkfan was going to just magically fix everything? He shipped out HUNDREDs of packages incorrectly. He set a $2000 budget to "fix" it all but if he wasn't able to even do it correctly in the first place, why do you think he would have been able to manage the logistics of fixing everything incorrectly sent? He had always had this "I already did a bunch of work, even if it was wrong, so screw you if you think you want me to do more work to get what you paid for".
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Do you honestly think berserkfan was going to just magically fix everything? He shipped out HUNDREDs of packages incorrectly. He set a $2000 budget to "fix" it all but if he wasn't able to even do it correctly in the first place, why do you think he would have been able to manage the logistics of fixing everything incorrectly sent? He had always had this "I already did a bunch of work, even if it was wrong, so screw you if you think you want me to do more work to get what you paid for".
Not disputing that the PR was handled poorly..
Many things were said emotionally and in a hurry..
But the IMPORTANT take away was, There was a plan for the fix, and coordination was happening, along with the $2000 Additional budget..
Berserkfan was already taking a loss on the sale, then a loss on the shipping mistake (right, his mistake), but then he was going to take another loss on the $2000 extra to fix what was possible..
The point remains, he was there, and working behind the scenes before --Rootwyrm-- made that impossible..
You're speculating that he could not have done a good job fixing the situation...
Well, he would've still done a better job than --Rootwyrm--, because look what's finally happened,
No one knows where the boxes went, AT LEAST Berserkfan, has a list of shipments and receipts including weights shipped..
What was --Rootwyrm-- actually able to accomplish, a whole lot of yelling, but what has that TABLE which the lot was so proud of actually able to do.
NOTHING, why, because you can't hold the receivers of the boxes accountable at all with the table.
At least from Berserk's side, he can say, well these people got this, his items should weigh at least THIS, The pictures he posted of his lot does not match.. He's hiding something..
Berserk had the ONLY list of reciepts which we could leverage to get the boxes going where they were suppose to go..
By kicking out berserk, You can make your own table based on good will, but without ANY leverage against User dishonesty..
And that's what's finally happened, with the majority Never a peep as to what they got..
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Do you honestly think berserkfan was going to just magically fix everything? He shipped out HUNDREDs of packages incorrectly. He set a $2000 budget to "fix" it all but if he wasn't able to even do it correctly in the first place, why do you think he would have been able to manage the logistics of fixing everything incorrectly sent? He had always had this "I already did a bunch of work, even if it was wrong, so screw you if you think you want me to do more work to get what you paid for".
Not disputing that the PR was handled poorly..
Many things were said emotionally and in a hurry..
But the IMPORTANT take away was, There was a plan for the fix, and coordination was happening, along with the $2000 Additional budget..
Berserkfan was already taking a loss on the sale, then a loss on the shipping mistake (right, his mistake), but then he was going to take another loss on the $2000 extra to fix what was possible..
The point remains, he was there, and working behind the scenes before --Rootwyrm-- made that impossible..
You're speculating that he could not have done a good job fixing the situation...
Well, he would've still done a better job than --Rootwyrm--, because look what's finally happened,
No one knows where the boxes went, AT LEAST Berserkfan, has a list of shipments and receipts including weights shipped..
What was --Rootwyrm-- actually able to accomplish, a whole lot of yelling, but what has that TABLE which the lot was so proud of actually able to do.
NOTHING, why, because you can't hold the receivers of the boxes accountable at all with the table.
At least from Berserk's side, he can say, well these people got this, his items should weigh at least THIS, The pictures he posted of his lot does not match.. He's hiding something..
Berserk had the ONLY list of reciepts which we could leverage to get the boxes going where they were suppose to go..
By kicking out berserk, You can make your own table based on good will, but without ANY leverage against User dishonesty..
And that's what's finally happened, with the majority Never a peep as to what they got..
Yeah... a list of box weights.
With no ****ing clue what was inside a single one of them.
THAT would have solved everything. :)) :)) :)) :))
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Yeah... a list of box weights.
With no ****ing clue what was inside a single one of them.
THAT would have solved everything. :)) :)) :)) :))
Not a perfect system, but better than nothing, which is EXACTLY what --Rootwyrm-- was working with.
With the weights, for example..
You could say, hey we got 5 lbs here, you posted a picture of 2 bags of keycap.. Where's the rest of the 4.9lbs..
There's SOME accountability there..
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Did you buy stuff too tp?
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I have my money. And many others don't. Think what you want, but I'll let outcomes speak for themselves.
And your vain victory is precisely WHY many others don't have anything..
There was a plan, you and others like you ruined it.
It wouldn't have been perfect, but it was going to be much better than what was finished with you lot.
So, tell me... in the PLAN, how do you make up for people whose items were doublesold? There was no way to get both me and the other guy the items. Can you answer that in your infinite wisdom?
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I have my money. And many others don't. Think what you want, but I'll let outcomes speak for themselves.
And your vain victory is precisely WHY many others don't have anything..
There was a plan, you and others like you ruined it.
It wouldn't have been perfect, but it was going to be much better than what was finished with you lot.
So, tell me... in the PLAN, how do you make up for people whose items were doublesold? There was no way to get both me and the other guy the items. Can you answer that in your infinite wisdom?
Yes I can..
There were coordination problems, because payment times were not aligned..
Berserkfan is not a database system, he's just one guy trying to keep track of stuff, all of which are different.
This is not amazon.com, this is a garage sale from another country..
If things were double sold, it was un-intentional..
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That still didn't answer the question. But, I take it you don't have any answers. Like I said, I looked at it as business gone wrong, and had no ill will. I just wanted it to get resolved. If you can tell me how a double sold (for whatever reason) item was supposed to get to two different people, I'll concede the issue.
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YOU also contributed to the final solution which is the SAME HOLE that everyone crawled into.. Right after -Rootwyrm, chuckdee, and sky-- So congratulations, at least it's not lonely at the bottom..
Anyone? nope? k cya.
More
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Berserk had the ONLY list of reciepts which we could leverage to get the boxes going where they were suppose to go..
TP, did you buy anything from Berserkfan? Know something we don't?
He has had months to take a number of steps to get his act together, yet his only reaction has been to complain loudly then disappear.
(Not a lawyer, but there is such a thing as "criminal negligence" in most Common Law jurisdictions.)
The PM system here and Gmail both have search capabilities, he could have cross referenced those to his receipts. He could also have matched the Moneygram / Western Union numbers to people and refunded.
It would have been possible for him to forward that information to a number of people that could cross-reference with the public spreadsheets.
None of that has happened.
For my part: I have only received defective sticks of RAM as a courtesy from someone who got them in his (mostly incorrect) package. There is only one keyboard out of four in my order whose whereabouts are known; and I'm still on the fence on whether it's worth shipping my way from Sweden to Canada.
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That still didn't answer the question. But, I take it you don't have any answers. Like I said, I looked at it as business gone wrong, and had no ill will. I just wanted it to get resolved. If you can tell me how a double sold (for whatever reason) item was supposed to get to two different people, I'll concede the issue.
This is a pointless string you're clinging to.
There was a $2000 budget for cash replacement if needed, and, they could've also came to an agreement on a replacement item of equivalent value in exchange.
This was in the replacement plan being worked on at the time.
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if berserk was honestly trying to rectify the situation, he would start by posting under his own account and acknowledging his role in this whole mess, along with a solution to get the correct items or refunds back to the right people. that won't happen though cos he's your classic geekhack hit n runner
in either case he doesn't need you for a spokesperson, so give it a rest
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Berserk had the ONLY list of reciepts which we could leverage to get the boxes going where they were suppose to go..
He has had months to take a number of steps to get his act together, yet his only reaction has been to complain loudly then disappear.
(Not a lawyer, but there is such a thing as "criminal negligence" in most Common Law jurisdictions.)
The PM system here and Gmail both have search capabilities, he could have cross referenced those to his receipts. He could also have matched the Moneygram / Western Union numbers to people and refunded.
It would have been possible for him to forward that information to a number of people that could cross-reference with the public spreadsheets.
None of that has happened.
For my part: I have only received defective sticks of RAM as a courtesy from someone who got them in his (mostly incorrect) package. There is only one keyboard out of four in my order whose whereabouts are known; and I'm still on the fence on whether it's worth shipping my way from Sweden to Canada.
The reason leading to the end of Berserkfan's involvement has been clearly indicated.
Without the Paypal account options after being locked due to the filings, he could not easily coordinate the refunds and package swaps.
The amount of coordination was already complex in the beginning. So now with one line of assets and options frozen it was even more difficult.
Because so many people filed all at once, this left a large charge back situation.
So, how was he suppose to work with everyone who used paypal, and coordinate with those who paid for packages over other payment methods, because they may have each other's packages..
The negative cash is also so large, that it would be pointless to try and make people happy, when one could just as easily DO NOTHING and wait to settle with paypal collections, which is what's happening now.
You guys didn't let him solve the problem in the beginning, so you have no right to complain now, after you've done everything you possibly could in continued hindrance..
AND NO, Geekhack messaging DOES NOT have a search function..
This is part of the reason why it was very hard to coordinate item sales, when your messages stack over several pages.
Partially accounts for double sold items.
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if berserk was honestly trying to rectify the situation, he would start by posting under his own account and acknowledging his role in this whole mess, along with a solution to get the correct items or refunds back to the right people. that won't happen though cos he's your classic geekhack hit n runner
That is not what happened. Berserkfan's only crime had been negligence.. The fallout and irresolution, was perpetrated by --Rootwyrm/Sky/Chuckdee-- and the few other users that were on that wagon.
He DID acknowledge his role in this, and I've also explained it clearly.
There WAS a solution underway, until the likes of --Rootwyrm/Sky/Chuckdee-- blocked it from happening.
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So what's the point of this thread? Clearly you do not agree with anyone else and you are not convincing anyone to change their mind on the subject. You've already tried that at DT: https://deskthority.net/off-topic-f10/unacceptable-lies-perpetrated-by-rootwyrm-t13893.html (https://deskthority.net/off-topic-f10/unacceptable-lies-perpetrated-by-rootwyrm-t13893.html) The posts in that thread are pretty much word for word what's happening here.
What do you want to happen? The next time someone ****s a bunch of people you think everyone should wait quietly for them to rectify the issue until it's too late for most people, like what happened with Ivan?
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What do you want to happen? The next time someone wrongs a bunch of people you think everyone should wait quietly for them to rectify the issue until it's too late for most people, like what happened with Ivan?
This is a completely different situation..
As far as I understand it, Ivan ran with the money.
Berserk fan did not run.. He was here trying to fix things, until it was made impossible by --Rootwyrm/Sky/Chuckdee--
// As for what Tp4 want's out of this ?
// Tp4 is here to lay out the truth of what happened..
// Tp4 aka, Speaker for the Dead..
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How could you tell the difference? When someone mis ships hundreds of packages, do you think people will think "oh it was just a little mistake, let's let him fix this problem I'm sure it will be just fine". It was never going to be a good recovery plan in the first place, and his attitude from the very beginning was obviously self-serving and jaded.
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How could you tell the difference? When someone mis ships hundreds of packages, do you think people will think "oh it was just a little mistake, let's let him fix this problem I'm sure it will be just fine". It was never going to be a good recovery plan in the first place, and his attitude from the very beginning was obviously self-serving and jaded.
We've are in agreement that the PR was done poorly.
But the solution by Berserkfan was being worked on. Things were turning.. Until it was thwarted.
It was the Best plan possible and would've made users more accountable for swapping packages because Berserkfan could post a shipping list of at least WHO GOT A PACKAGE AT ALL, and HOW much it weighed..
Leveraging that is the only way to keep people honest.
--ROotwyrm's-- paltry efforts was a useless list of self-reports, he had no records to go off of.. THAT list was the true waste of time here. and the WORST solution.. which in the end has clearly solved nothing..
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This is a pointless string you're clinging to.
As is the fact that you keep needing to rehash events from the past, when it does nothing.
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This is a pointless string you're clinging to.
As is the fact that you keep needing to rehash events from the past, when it does nothing.
Incorrect. Tp4 does not start the war.. But Tp4 will finish..
Tp4 is not the instigator of this issue's continuance, but whenever there is misinformation among the forum as to WHO did what.. Tp4 will be there to Keep the facts clear.
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I'm still salty the mods muted tp4 in a offtopic thread for being off topic, in a offtopic thread.
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That still didn't answer the question. But, I take it you don't have any answers. Like I said, I looked at it as business gone wrong, and had no ill will. I just wanted it to get resolved. If you can tell me how a double sold (for whatever reason) item was supposed to get to two different people, I'll concede the issue.
This is a pointless string you're clinging to.
There was a $2000 budget for cash replacement if needed, and, they could've also came to an agreement on a replacement item of equivalent value in exchange.
This was in the replacement plan being worked on at the time.
In other words you don't have an answer, and are just spewing words for the sake of spewing words. Noted.
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This is a pointless string you're clinging to.
As is the fact that you keep needing to rehash events from the past, when it does nothing.
Incorrect. Tp4 does not start the war.. But Tp4 will finish..
Tp4 is not the instigator of this issue's continuance, but whenever there is misinformation among the forum as to WHO did what.. Tp4 will be there to Keep the facts clear.
Clearly, what with you creating a new thread to publicly air out issues with fohat that could have been handled via PM. At this point, what's done is done, no one really gives a flying **** at this point who escalated what because of what they chose to do, they either want their product, or they want their money.
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That still didn't answer the question. But, I take it you don't have any answers. Like I said, I looked at it as business gone wrong, and had no ill will. I just wanted it to get resolved. If you can tell me how a double sold (for whatever reason) item was supposed to get to two different people, I'll concede the issue.
This is a pointless string you're clinging to.
There was a $2000 budget for cash replacement if needed, and, they could've also came to an agreement on a replacement item of equivalent value in exchange.
This was in the replacement plan being worked on at the time.
words
The answer is, in case of double sold items you would've been refunded for it, OR an exchange for another item could've been made.
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This is a pointless string you're clinging to.
As is the fact that you keep needing to rehash events from the past, when it does nothing.
Incorrect. Tp4 does not start the war.. But Tp4 will finish..
Tp4 is not the instigator of this issue's continuance, but whenever there is misinformation among the forum as to WHO did what.. Tp4 will be there to Keep the facts clear.
Clearly, what with you creating a new thread to publicly air out issues with fohat that could have been handled via PM. At this point, what's done is done, no one really gives a flying **** at this point who escalated what because of what they chose to do, they either want their product, or they want their money.
What's your point.. If you don't care, go away ..
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I'm still salty the mods muted tp4 in a offtopic thread for being off topic, in a offtopic thread.
Ha, I read that sentence about three or four times :)
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That still didn't answer the question. But, I take it you don't have any answers. Like I said, I looked at it as business gone wrong, and had no ill will. I just wanted it to get resolved. If you can tell me how a double sold (for whatever reason) item was supposed to get to two different people, I'll concede the issue.
This is a pointless string you're clinging to.
There was a $2000 budget for cash replacement if needed, and, they could've also came to an agreement on a replacement item of equivalent value in exchange.
This was in the replacement plan being worked on at the time.
words
The answer is, in case of double sold items you would've been refunded for it, OR an exchange for another item could've been made.
If you're going to respond to me, at least have the decency to leave my words in for posterity. I've even stopped editing out your silly formatting and just quote the whole thing, no matter how inefficient that is after someone complained about it. The least you could do is likewise. You say that you're trying to keep facts straight, but that's an outright lie since it's become obvious that you don't even know the facts.
For example, Sky didn't file for anything. He didn't do anything against Berserk. He didn't get anything back, because he paid by a method that didn't allow him to. He kept the spreadsheet up and did everything he did out of no motive other than to help. Yet you continue to slander him for creating a spreadsheet. I'm done feeding the troll.
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You say that you're trying to keep facts straight, but that's an outright lie since it's become obvious that you don't even know the facts.
Sky didn't do anything against Berserk. He didn't get anything back, because he paid by a method that didn't allow him to. He kept the spreadsheet up and did everything he did out of no motive other than to help.
Sky absolutely did-something, he had been along with chuckdee and --rootwyrm-- at the head of the Berserkfan h8 threads.
Your lot, also claim that this had been a Scam, which is absolutely untrue..
Berserkfan made mistakes , but he remained 100% honest, and was in progress to rectify people's orders by refund or exchange until you guys made it impossible for him to do so.
As for that Spreadsheet, it was worthless the moment it'd been conceived..
There is no way to leverage the users who received boxes to be honest about what they got, because NONE of you had records of WHO actually got packages.
So in the end, the only possible outcome is that people who DIDN'T receive anything or was short larger amounts would've posted.
This leaving out all of the people who got either correctly or More than what they ordered..
The only person who could have made the exchange/ swap plan possible was Berserkfan..
By his wrongful impeachment you lot not only cast aside the only person willing to help you, you disregarded that he was The only person WHO COULD help you..
The end result is as much the fault of your person orchestration as the shipping mistake.
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I'm still salty the mods muted tp4 in a offtopic thread for being off topic, in a offtopic thread.
Ha, I read that sentence about three or four times :)
Yeah I'm not sure why I wrote offtopic thread again at the end O.o tldr he was muted in a offtopic thread for being offtopic whilst in the offtopic sub forum
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I'm still salty the mods muted tp4 in a offtopic thread for being off topic, in a offtopic thread.
Ha, I read that sentence about three or four times :)
Yeah I'm not sure why I wrote offtopic thread again at the end O.o tldr he was muted in a offtopic thread for being offtopic whilst in the offtopic sub forum
Thou shalt not Deter Tp4 - Champion of Justice.
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The fallout and irresolution, was perpetrated by --Rootwyrm/Sky/Chuckdee-- and the few other users that were on that wagon.
There WAS a solution underway, until the likes of --Rootwyrm/Sky/Chuckdee-- blocked it from happening.
the fallout was perpetrated by berserk's statement telling those who didn't get what they paid for to, essentially, deal with it, because he couldn't be arsed to. then came an extended period of (still ongoing) silence that prompted root and others to join the fray.
it's also pathetic that you're trying to divert the blame to those who worked toward an actual solution, which, no matter how worthless you deem to be, is still more responsibility than berserk ever took for his actions. and now you want us to believe that berserk had the perfect solution up his sleeve that he conveniently kept to himself all that time, until big bad root and sky and whoever foiled his attempt to make amends!! just epic
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The fallout and irresolution, was perpetrated by --Rootwyrm/Sky/Chuckdee-- and the few other users that were on that wagon.
There WAS a solution underway, until the likes of --Rootwyrm/Sky/Chuckdee-- blocked it from happening.
the fallout was perpetrated by berserk's statement telling those who didn't get what they paid for to, essentially, deal with it, because he couldn't be arsed to. then came an extended period of (still ongoing) silence that prompted root and others to join the fray.
it's also pathetic that you're trying to divert the blame to those who worked toward an actual solution, which, no matter how worthless you deem to be, is still more responsibility than berserk ever took for his actions. and now you want us to believe that berserk had the perfect solution up his sleeve that he conveniently kept to himself all that time, until big bad root and sky and whoever foiled his attempt to make amends!! just epic
Absolutely Incorrect..
There was a plan for the fix, and coordination was happening, along with the $2000 Additional budget..
Berserkfan was already taking a loss on the sale, then a loss on the shipping mistake (right, his mistake), but then he was going to take another loss on the $2000 extra to fix what was possible..
The point remains, he was there, and working behind the scenes before --Rootwyrm-- made that impossible..
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In other words you don't have an answer, and are just spewing words for the sake of spewing words. Noted.
Pretty much always the case.
As an old boss once said to me, "If they can't dazzle you with brilliance, they will try to baffle you with bull****."
The premise that the affair was only partially concluded by mid-May and that later actions would have rectified the problems is beyond ludicrous.
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In other words you don't have an answer, and are just spewing words for the sake of spewing words. Noted.
Pretty much always the case.
As an old boss once said to me, "If they can't dazzle you with brilliance, they will try to baffle you with bull****."
The premise that the affair was only partially concluded by mid-May and that later actions would have rectified the problems is beyond ludicrous.
Chuckdee's question has already been answered.. in case of double sold items you would've been refunded for it, OR an exchange for another item could've been made.
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In other words you don't have an answer, and are just spewing words for the sake of spewing words. Noted.
Pretty much always the case.
As an old boss once said to me, "If they can't dazzle you with brilliance, they will try to baffle you with bull****."
The premise that the affair was only partially concluded by mid-May and that later actions would have rectified the problems is beyond ludicrous.
Chuckdee's question has already been answered.. in case of double sold items you would've been refunded for it, OR an exchange for another item could've been made.
He wasn't even talking to you, but you have to have the last word, don't you?
So the "plan" as you keep describing is blown all to hell because of PayPal disputes and chargebacks, so.... NOW WHAT?!?! He just throws his hands in the air and gives up? That's why people are pissed off. They want resolution. And they have both a legal and moral right to get it. beserkfan needs to come up with a new plan, since the other one is no longer going to work, and explain what that plan is, and the timeline for accomplishing it. Anything other than that is just pissing in the wind.
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Let me make this clear - none of this is about who is at fault or who is to blame, or who should be viewed as innocent or guilty. This is about people's packages and money. It's about multiple transactions that did not occur as they should of. You can like berserkfan, that's okay. Others can hate him, that's okay too. But there is no point in either a witch hunt or defending him, because but at the end of the day, how he is perceived does not matter. It does not influence the outcome for everyone who was supposed to get a package or their money back. It's too late. People have already formed their opinion of the situation. Move on.
It's too bad rooywyrm filed complaints and locked the account out if berserkerfan was planning on rectifying the situation. It's too bad berserkfan ****ed off once a ton of people started doing the same thing because they didn't receive what they were supposed. It's all too bad. But it's over TP, it's over.
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In other words you don't have an answer, and are just spewing words for the sake of spewing words. Noted.
Pretty much always the case.
As an old boss once said to me, "If they can't dazzle you with brilliance, they will try to baffle you with bull****."
The premise that the affair was only partially concluded by mid-May and that later actions would have rectified the problems is beyond ludicrous.
Chuckdee's question has already been answered.. in case of double sold items you would've been refunded for it, OR an exchange for another item could've been made.
He wasn't even talking to you, but you have to have the last word, don't you?
So the "plan" as you keep describing is blown all to hell because of PayPal disputes and chargebacks, so.... NOW WHAT?!?! He just throws his hands in the air and gives up? That's why people are pissed off. They want resolution. And they have both a legal and moral right to get it. beserkfan needs to come up with a new plan, since the other one is no longer going to work, and explain what that plan is, and the timeline for accomplishing it. Anything other than that is just pissing in the wind.
Thank you. That honestly, if done earlier, would have ended the dispute, and was all I asked for. I would have possibly been out of money that I now have, but I would have done it out of the fact that he was dealing honestly with the situation and not avoiding it. But the moment he stopped responding at all was the moment I realized that wasn't the case. So I pursued other means. And just to make sure that the whole record is straight, I filed the PayPal dispute after he stopped responding to PMs. There was a whole escalation that I didn't even bring up because it was pointless. As I said, I bear him no ill will, even with the fact that it was made personal in conversation. I'm also still giving him the benefit of the doubt that this was a screw up of epic proportions, rather than a scam. But the end result is the same- people are out of money, without so much as an apology or an admission that he screwed up. And that's indefensible, no matter how much people try.
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In the end beserk fan was true to his name.
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Let me make this clear - none of this is about who is at fault or who is to blame, or who should be viewed as innocent or guilty. This is about people's packages and money. It's about multiple transactions that did not occur as they should of. You can like berserkfan, that's okay. Others can hate him, that's okay too. But there is no point in either a witch hunt or defending him, because but at the end of the day, how he is perceived does not matter. It does not influence the outcome for everyone who was supposed to get a package or their money back. It's too late. People have already formed their opinion of the situation. Move on.
It's too bad rooywyrm filed complaints and locked the account out if berserkerfan was planning on rectifying the situation. It's too bad berserkfan ****ed off once a ton of people started doing the same thing because they didn't receive what they were supposed. It's all too bad. But it's over TP, it's over.
Amen.
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Chuckdee's question has already been answered.. in case of double sold items you would've been refunded for it, OR an exchange for another item could've been made.
He wasn't even talking to you, but you have to have the last word, don't you?
So the "plan" as you keep describing is blown all to hell because of PayPal disputes and chargebacks, so.... NOW WHAT?!?! He just throws his hands in the air and gives up? That's why people are pissed off. They want resolution. And they have both a legal and moral right to get it. beserkfan needs to come up with a new plan, since the other one is no longer going to work, and explain what that plan is, and the timeline for accomplishing it. Anything other than that is just pissing in the wind.
Hahahaha.. I am only here to keep the record straight.. Who did what, I am not judge, Merely the record keeper, As Speaker for the Dead..
On Berserkfan giving up.. YES in many instances one should give up, because what Rootwyrm/Chuckdee/ and Sky perpetuated DRAMTICALLY increased the coordination labor involved.
Consider it this way, Every person has a limit to which they're willing to apply effort in any situation..
Berserkfan was WILLING to do quite alot to make the sour situation better.. This much is clear..
HOWEVER, Rootwyrm's camp pushed that too far..
So, Beyond a certain point, it is EASIER to just Settle with Paypal collections, because Berserkfan has already accepted FROM THE BEGINNING that the mistake has cost his entire inventory.. making NONE of his personal stake in this deal Recoverable..
He was willing to put efforts towards recoverying NOTHING ontop of an additional $2000 in funding..
Berserkfan was willing to work to scrape back merely HIS NAME.. He's accepted responsibility in his mistake as the total loss of his inventory, and was willing to commit further..
But Rootwyrm n-company wanted more, they wanted to publicly ostracize, and went on to demean Berserkfan..
That is why Berserkfan chose to say, OK, guys, Have it your way..
SO YOU SEE, Rootwyrm and all of his patsy deserved everything that came after..
It is truly unfortunate some innocent got hurt in this deal.. But There was a line, and Rootwyrm/Sky/ Chuckdee were the ones who crossed it.
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Let me make this clear - none of this is about who is at fault or who is to blame, or who should be viewed as innocent or guilty. This is about people's packages and money. It's about multiple transactions that did not occur as they should of. You can like berserkfan, that's okay. Others can hate him, that's okay too. But there is no point in either a witch hunt or defending him, because but at the end of the day, how he is perceived does not matter. It does not influence the outcome for everyone who was supposed to get a package or their money back. It's too late. People have already formed their opinion of the situation. Move on.
It's too bad rooywyrm filed complaints and locked the account out if berserkerfan was planning on rectifying the situation. It's too bad berserkfan ****ed off once a ton of people started doing the same thing because they didn't receive what they were supposed. It's all too bad. But it's over TP, it's over.
The event is OVER,
But the FUTURE is not set..
If we do not Keep records straight..
We will not learn from --Rootwyrm, Chuckdee, and Sky's-- Mistakes/ Deceits/ Lies..
...........................There's no fate but what we make for ourselves
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What is Tp4's own stake in this matter?
Tp4 gets to do some typing, using his WPM for good, defending the innocent...
What more can a Geekhacker ask for..
Tp4 will not let the Truth be cast aside for private convenience.. Tp4 will obliterate all opposition to preserve and expand the frontier of internet righteousness..
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Didn't Berserk have his wife send the stuff out and thats how this whole mess started in the first place? This is EXACTLY why you never let WOMEN mail your geek/keyboard/hobby items to other geeks!! DO NOT TRUST THEM! ;D
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Didn't Berserk have his wife send the stuff out and thats how this whole mess started in the first place? This is EXACTLY why you never let WOMEN mail your geek/keyboard/hobby items to other geeks!! DO NOT TRUST THEM! ;D
Um... welll.... No Comment..
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defending the innocent...
K
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defending the innocent...
K
Correct..
Berserkfan made mistakes,
But he is INNOCENT of any CRIME..
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defending the innocent...
K
Correct..
Berserkfan made mistakes,
But he is INNOCENT of any CRIME..
No crime except selling some people items that he didn't have and then running with the money. That's sounds awful similar to theft to me.
Sent from my SM-N930V using Tapatalk
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Correct..
Berserkfan made mistakes,
But he is INNOCENT of any CRIME..
No crime except selling some people items that he didn't have and then running with the money. That's sounds awful similar to theft to me.
Incorrect
There were coordination problems, because payment times were not aligned..
Berserkfan is not a database system, he's just one guy trying to keep track of stuff, all of which are different.
This is not amazon.com, this is a garage sale from another country..
If things were double sold, it was un-intentional..
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defending the innocent...
K
Correct..
Berserkfan made mistakes,
But he is INNOCENT of any CRIME..
No crime except selling some people items that he didn't have and then running with the money. That's sounds awful similar to theft to me.
Incorrect
There were coordination problems, because payment times were not aligned..
Berserkfan is not a database system, he's just one guy trying to keep track of stuff, all of which are different.
This is not amazon.com, this is a garage sale from another country..
If things were double sold, it was un-intentional..
You keep saying he's not a database like that removes all blame from him.... Google sheets is a thing.
This is absolutely Berserkerfans fault.
Sent from my SM-N930V using Tapatalk
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defending the innocent...
K
Correct..
Berserkfan made mistakes,
But he is INNOCENT of any CRIME..
No crime except selling some people items that he didn't have and then running with the money. That's sounds awful similar to theft to me.
Incorrect
There were coordination problems, because payment times were not aligned..
Berserkfan is not a database system, he's just one guy trying to keep track of stuff, all of which are different.
This is not amazon.com, this is a garage sale from another country..
If things were double sold, it was un-intentional..
You keep saying he's not a database like that removes all blame from him.... Google sheets is a thing.
This is absolutely Berserkerfans fault.
Sent from my SM-N930V using Tapatalk
Berserkfan is at fault for the shipping..
THere is no dispute..
I am merely explaining that the fallout was as bad as it was, because of -Rootwyrm-'s actions
Berserk fan was doing things in rectification of his error.. There was the $2000 budget for cash, ontop of Setting up proxies behind the scenes, all were on-going up until the moment --Rootwyrm-- egged everyone to file complaints locking out Berserkfan's paypal account for coordinating funding and swaps.
Berserkfan is not a scammer in the sense that he was taking the money and running.
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But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
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defending the innocent...
K
Correct..
Berserkfan made mistakes,
But he is INNOCENT of any CRIME..
No crime except selling some people items that he didn't have and then running with the money. That's sounds awful similar to theft to me.
Incorrect
There were coordination problems, because payment times were not aligned..
Berserkfan is not a database system, he's just one guy trying to keep track of stuff, all of which are different.
This is not amazon.com, this is a garage sale from another country..
If things were double sold, it was un-intentional..
You keep saying he's not a database like that removes all blame from him.... Google sheets is a thing.
This is absolutely Berserkerfans fault.
Sent from my SM-N930V using Tapatalk
Berserkfan is at fault for the shipping..
THere is no dispute..
I am merely explaining that the fallout was as bad as it was, because of -Rootwyrm-'s actions
Berserk fan was doing things in rectification of his error.. There was the $2000 budget for cash, ontop of Setting up proxies behind the scenes, all were on-going up until the moment --Rootwyrm-- egged everyone to file complaints locking out Berserkfan's paypal account for coordinating funding and swaps.
Berserkfan is not a scammer in the sense that he was taking the money and running.
The fallout was as bad as it was because Berserkerfan screwed a lot of people out of money and then was not transparent on how he was going to fix it. People should have absolutely filled complaints.
Sent from my SM-N930V using Tapatalk
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I don't even know why I am joining this conversation, I have no dog in this fight, but I can't help but comment on you saying:
I am only here to keep the record straight.. Who did what, I am not judge, Merely the record keeper, As Speaker for the Dead..
(emphasis mine)
...and all you have done is condemn the same people for "wrong doing" over and over again. What part of that is "not judging"?!
Really, it's simple - dude sent out the wrong stuff and messed it all up. HE was responsible for that. PERIOD. What other people did or did not do after the fact does change that he messed it all up from the beginning; if he hadn't, no one would have had a reason to run to PayPal and dispute ANYTHING. Stop blaming the people who just wanted their damn money back man. You can complain all you want that they did it too early or whatever because PayPal gives you longer, but screw that noise - any money they had tied up in PayPal while waiting was money they couldn't do anything else with - I don't blame them for wanting their money back and neither should you!
-
Correct..
Berserkfan made mistakes,
But he is INNOCENT of any CRIME..
No crime except selling some people items that he didn't have and then running with the money. That's sounds awful similar to theft to me.
Incorrect
There were coordination problems, because payment times were not aligned..
Berserkfan is not a database system, he's just one guy trying to keep track of stuff, all of which are different.
This is not amazon.com, this is a garage sale from another country..
If things were double sold, it was un-intentional..
Since when do intentions come into play in deciding if something was a crime? If I hit someone with my car and they die, I can be charged with a variety of crimes. Whether or not I was trying to hit them with my car changes which crime was committed, but it is a crime regardless.
Likewise, if I sell someone a product I don't actually possess and then proceed to tell them "too bad, you got something in the mail and I never listed what it actually was on the invoice. Sucker!" then I have committed fraud.
Whether or not he started with the intention to perpetrate fraud is not important. The end result was fraud.
To say this man is innocent of anything is absurd. Even more absurd than calling others guilty along the way.
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But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
UNTIL he was pushed out and prevented from doing so by --Rootwyrm--
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
UNTIL he was pushed out and prevented from doing so by --Rootwyrm--
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
UNTIL he was pushed out and prevented from doing so by --Rootwyrm--
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
UNTIL he was pushed out and prevented from doing so by --Rootwyrm--
-
Correct..
Berserkfan made mistakes,
But he is INNOCENT of any CRIME..
No crime except selling some people items that he didn't have and then running with the money. That's sounds awful similar to theft to me.
Incorrect
There were coordination problems, because payment times were not aligned..
Berserkfan is not a database system, he's just one guy trying to keep track of stuff, all of which are different.
This is not amazon.com, this is a garage sale from another country..
If things were double sold, it was un-intentional..
Since when do intentions come into play in deciding if something was a crime? If I hit someone with my car and they die, I can be charged with a variety of crimes. Whether or not I was trying to hit them with my car changes which crime was committed, but it is a crime regardless.
Likewise, if I sell someone a product I don't actually possess and then proceed to tell them "too bad, you got something in the mail and I never listed what it actually was on the invoice. Sucker!" then I have committed fraud.
Whether or not he started with the intention to perpetrate fraud is not important. The end result was fraud.
To say this man is innocent of anything is absurd. Even more absurd than calling others guilty along the way.
a scam, would also imply a situation where they intended to run with the money..
Berserkfan clearly stood by, until he was PUSHED OUT from being able to make the rectification happen..
It wasn't merely INTENTIONS, Berserkfan was HERE fixing things until --Rootwyrm-- made that impossible
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I don't even know why I am joining this conversation, I have no dog in this fight, but I can't help but comment on you saying:
I am only here to keep the record straight.. Who did what, I am not judge, Merely the record keeper, As Speaker for the Dead..
(emphasis mine)
...and all you have done is condemn the same people for "wrong doing" over and over again. What part of that is "not judging"?!
Really, it's simple - dude sent out the wrong stuff and messed it all up. HE was responsible for that. PERIOD. What other people did or did not do after the fact does change that he messed it all up from the beginning; if he hadn't, no one would have had a reason to run to PayPal and dispute ANYTHING. Stop blaming the people who just wanted their damn money back man. You can complain all you want that they did it too early or whatever because PayPal gives you longer, but screw that noise - any money they had tied up in PayPal while waiting was money they couldn't do anything else with - I don't blame them for wanting their money back and neither should you!
I call attention to their wrong doing, because their wrong doing is what drove Berserkfan away from being able to help the people affected..
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But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
UNTIL he was pushed out and prevented from doing so by --Rootwyrm--
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
UNTIL he was pushed out and prevented from doing so by --Rootwyrm--
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
UNTIL he was pushed out and prevented from doing so by --Rootwyrm--
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
UNTIL he was pushed out and prevented from doing so by --Rootwyrm--
Wasn't saying anything one way or the other. The thread is just getting repetitive :confused:
-
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
UNTIL he was pushed out and prevented from doing so by --Rootwyrm--
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
UNTIL he was pushed out and prevented from doing so by --Rootwyrm--
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
UNTIL he was pushed out and prevented from doing so by --Rootwyrm--
But it was his fault
Yeah but he tried to fix it
UNTIL he was pushed out and prevented from doing so by --Rootwyrm--
Wasn't saying anything one way or the other. The thread is just getting repetitive :confused:
Correct..
Repetition of TRUTH..
Record keeping at its finest..
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Why are you even bringing this up Tp? It's long over. He took peoples money, poorly organized a sale, and ceased communications. He had even said he threw everything out by the time people started filing claims. There was no intent to finish shipping, and people were quite obviously not going to receive what they paid for. There's no need to scream about "TEH EBIL ROOTWYRM"
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Why are you even bringing this up Tp? It's long over. He took peoples money, poorly organized a sale, and ceased communications. He had even said he threw everything out by the time people started filing claims. There was no intent to finish shipping, and people were quite obviously not going to receive what they paid for. There's no need to scream about "TEH EBIL ROOTWYRM"
Berserk fan stood by until --Rootwyrm-- made it impossible for him to continue..
Berserkfan has accepted responsibility for mistake, and that it costs him his Entire inventory..
At the fall, Berserkfan was still willing to work towards coordinating shipping, setting up proxies for package swaps and put in additional funds ($2000) towards rectifying the situation for those affected.
When --Rootwyrm, Chuckdee, and Sky-- filed their paypal claims prematurely (they had 6 months to file, they all did it within the first month)..
This locked out Berserkfan's plans for the fix because it considerably hampers payment and coordination over paypal, because the account and many options were locked out.
Then afterwards --Rootwyrm, Chuckdee, and Sky-- continued to publicly ostracize Berserkfan, saying he's a scammer, when the ENTIRE TIME, he was trying to help the affected Users..
At that point it becomes easier to just settle with paypal collections and do nothing, because --Rootwyrm-- made the entire situation even worse by Greatly increasing the Coordination cost..
Labor is a resource and not limitless, there is a line that Berserkfan was willing to commit to in fixing his shipping mistake..
What --Rootwyrm n others-- did is push this line too far, such that settling with paypal collections became the best option, and to merely sit and do nothing at all..
It is completely by the actions of --Rootwyrm, Chuckdee, and Sky--'s which prevented Berserkfan from Fixing the situation..
The PURPOSE of these threads, well, I didn't start them, there was an inquisition earlier today, and so I laid out the facts..
but even today, and all through the previous weeks.
--Rootwyrm, chuck and sky-- CONTINUE to perpetuate their lies.. Claiming untruthfully to be helping people, when they've done far more damage than good..
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Can a mod please lock this thread? kthx
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Can a mod please lock this thread? kthx
For what reason.. ??
I've said all of what I've said amicably..
No one has yet to topple the facts presented..
Again, if you personally don't care, just go away.. It does nothing to you to not read the thread.
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Exactly, all the facts have been presented. It doesn't need to be re-iterated every post. (both sides)
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Exactly, all the facts have been presented. It doesn't need to be re-iterated every post. (both sides)
It does need to be re-iterated.., because there continue to be people who are unsure of the events, or have been mislead by --Rootwyrm/Chuckdee/Skysphoric--
Just today, there was a thread started by Someone else, querying the events surrounding the Berserkfan shipping debacle..
Many informationally wrong posts were made in that thread..
Wrongfully accusing Berserkfan of intentional crime.. which he did not commit.
Any time that happens, it necessitates a re-iteration of the facts..
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there continue to be people who are unsure of the events
Just about everybody is quite knowledgeable and up to date on the facts and events.
Some people choose to overlay interpretations onto facts. Overlays are often nebulous or invalid, but facts are facts.
For example, one fact is that Goh has never communicated a single word to me in any form whatsoever since he collected his cash Moneygram on May 5, even though he has my personal email as well as my physical address and telephone number.
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there continue to be people who are unsure of the events
Just about everybody is quite knowledgeable and up to date on the facts and events.
Some people choose to overlay interpretations onto facts. Overlays are often nebulous or invalid, but facts are facts.
For example, one fact is that Goh has never communicated a single word to me in any form whatsoever since he collected his cash Moneygram on May 5, even though he has my personal email as well as my physical address and telephone number.
No they are not, evidence, the post earlier today , one person who did not know what happened, and asked.
More evidence that not everyone knows, you lot who continue this banter about Berserkfan being a Criminal, when it is Anything but that..
I've already explained to you why he chose to discontinue action , due to the wrongful accusations by --Rootwyrm-n-company--
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I've already explained to you why he chose
And you know full well that your "explanations" are empty meaningless horse****.
You need to let it go. You were never a part of this transaction anyway.
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More evidence that not everyone knows, you lot who continue this banter about Berserkfan being a Criminal, when it is Anything but that..
While his actions may not be criminal, he is still (and continues to be) liable for breach of contract. Just because someone else's actions may have foiled his well-intentioned plan, such fact does not absolve him of his personal responsibility to either deliver the goods or repay the monies. THIS IS THE TRUTH.
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More evidence that not everyone knows, you lot who continue this banter about Berserkfan being a Criminal, when it is Anything but that..
While his actions may not be criminal, he is still (and continues to be) liable for breach of contract. Just because someone else's actions may have foiled his well-intentioned plan, such fact does not absolve him of his personal responsibility to either deliver the goods or repay the monies. THIS IS THE TRUTH.
And he will not be absolved.. He will eventually settle with paypal collections.
There is no disagreement that Berserkfan made the mistake and is responsible.
There is however a discrepancy in the description surrounding the intention of the event.. Of which I've cleared up.
Berserkfan is NOT a criminal, this was no scam.. --Rootwyrm-- impeeded the plan in progress to fix things (as much as possible)..
Berserkfan TOOK responsibility, but the action of a few in this case is what made rectification impossible.. Berserkfan Is an upstanding member, and done everything within his power to rectify the situation..
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I've already explained to you why he chose
You need to let it go. You were never a part of this transaction anyway.
YOU need to let it go. Your box is gone, You picked the wrong side of the camp to bet on..
Berserkfan WAS out to help YES, even YOU.
By standing with --Rootwyrm-- and his alarmists, you've thrown your chance of recovery away.
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I just wished he(berserk) replied to my emails about my package if it was even shipped or not.
All I got was an email from ben goh asking about my address but, that was it :(
should I still be waiting for something? I never filed thinking there was still a chance of getting something at least.
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I just wished he(berserk) replied to my emails about my package if it was even shipped or not.
All I got was an email from ben goh asking about my address but, that was it :(
should I still be waiting for something? I never filed thinking there was still a chance of getting something at least.
Hi audax989, sorry to hear that..
If you have not received a package at this point, and you paid through paypal, you should file a complaint and get a refund if possible.
Unfortunately because of --Rootwyrm's-- actions in pushing out Berserkfan..
Berserkfan had no longer been responding to any support inquiries involving the sale..
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He will eventually settle with paypal collections.
Berserkfan TOOK responsibility,
Everything that you say is "general" and vapid, as well as false with regard to my situation.
I have never "taken sides" with anyone, I even defended Goh until very recently, and have only ever asked for honesty.
Paypal is irrelevant in my case, because he asked me to pay via cash Moneygram and I did what he asked.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that he intends to take responsibility to fulfill his obligation to me.
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He will eventually settle with paypal collections.
Berserkfan TOOK responsibility,
I have never "taken sides" with anyone, I even defended Goh until very recently, and have only ever asked for honesty.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that he intends to take responsibility to fulfill his obligations.
Yes you have taken sides,
There are several posts of you thanking --rootwyrm and skysphoric-- for their Bullcrap efforts to HELP the community..
Their efforts/ wrongful accusation and public ostracizing is exactly what drove Berserkfan away..
Mind you, the ONLY person who could leverage users to report their received packages..
No evidence ? What evidence do you have that this had been a scam..
He clearly said he was working to coordinate swaps..
He clearly said he is budgeting additional money , his own money..
Tp4 was also in personal communication with Berserk fan on setting up proxies and the legal measures he may eventually need to make.
If he had been a scammer, He would not have done any of those things.. Just pick up and go, why bother..?
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There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that he intends to take responsibility to fulfill his obligations.
Tp4 was also in personal communication with Berserk fan on setting up proxies and the legal measures he may eventually need to make.
If you are speaking about reality, then speak about real plans and real timetables. Otherwise there is nothing for you to say.
As I said, no one has ever communicated one single word to me on how they intend to remedy my loss.
Everything else is meaningless.
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There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that he intends to take responsibility to fulfill his obligations.
Tp4 was also in personal communication with Berserk fan on setting up proxies and the legal measures he may eventually need to make.
As I said, no one has ever communicated one single word to me on how they intend to remedy my loss.
You are ridiculously selfish..
But the fact remains, this event involved many people.. Unfortunately some of them were innocent of all of it, and merely caught in the crossfire.
YOU were not one of these people, you lost your right to that box, as soon as you went on --Rootwyrm's wagon--
Because The entire time Berserkfan was still willing to work towards coordinating shipping, setting up proxies for package swaps and put in additional funds ($2000) towards rectifying the situation for those affected.
When you sided with --Rootwyrm-- along with that entire section of users, you became part of the problem which pushed out Berserkfan, The only person willing and Actually Capable of sorting the mess out.
There were no personal communications AT THE TIME, because the things you ordered are in limbo, there was no determination as to where they were, so the order could not be fulfilled as listed..
SO, regardless of any Commnication, nothing could be done about specific cases.. The packages had to arrive first, and be tallied..
This was all in progress
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With regard to the double sold items:
http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;ident=bffe7cbf-b039-47e9-9614-11145a289d26;page=0;query=DocId%3A%22025e7646-947b-462c-b557-60aa55dc7b42%22%20Status%3Ainforce%20Depth%3A0;rec=0
More
Cheating
Cheating
415. Whoever, by deceiving any person, whether or not such deception was the sole or main inducement, fraudulently or dishonestly induces the person so deceived to deliver any property to any person, or to consent that any person shall retain any property, or intentionally induces the person so deceived to do or omit to do anything which he would not do or omit to do if he were not so deceived, and which act or omission causes or is likely to cause damage or harm to any person in body, mind, reputation or property, is said to “cheat”.
[51/2007]
Explanation 1.—A dishonest concealment of facts is a deception within the meaning of this section.
Explanation 2.—Mere breach of contract is not of itself proof of an original fraudulent intent.
Explanation 3.—Whoever makes a representation through any agent is to be treated as having made the representation himself.
[51/2007]
Illustrations
...
(i) A sells and conveys an estate to B. A, knowing that in consequence of such sale he has no right to the property, sells or mortgages the same to Z without disclosing the fact of the previous sale and conveyance to B, and receives the purchase or mortgage money from Z. A cheats.
Punishment for cheating
417. Whoever cheats shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 3 years, or with fine, or with both.
[51/2007]
[Indian PC 1860, s. 417]
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Unfortunately some of them were innocent of all of it, and merely caught in the crossfire.
So your current premise is that because I stopped defending Chen-Fong Goh in public a couple of weeks ago, that gives him license to keep my money and renege on our agreement, with impunity, in a fit of emotional pique?
The answer to that question is one word "yes" or "no"
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With regard to the double sold items:
http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;ident=bffe7cbf-b039-47e9-9614-11145a289d26;page=0;query=DocId%3A%22025e7646-947b-462c-b557-60aa55dc7b42%22%20Status%3Ainforce%20Depth%3A0;rec=0
More
Cheating
Cheating
415. Whoever, by deceiving any person, whether or not such deception was the sole or main inducement, fraudulently or dishonestly induces the person so deceived to deliver any property to any person, or to consent that any person shall retain any property, or intentionally induces the person so deceived to do or omit to do anything which he would not do or omit to do if he were not so deceived, and which act or omission causes or is likely to cause damage or harm to any person in body, mind, reputation or property, is said to “cheat”.
[51/2007]
Explanation 1.—A dishonest concealment of facts is a deception within the meaning of this section.
Explanation 2.—Mere breach of contract is not of itself proof of an original fraudulent intent.
Explanation 3.—Whoever makes a representation through any agent is to be treated as having made the representation himself.
[51/2007]
Illustrations
...
(i) A sells and conveys an estate to B. A, knowing that in consequence of such sale he has no right to the property, sells or mortgages the same to Z without disclosing the fact of the previous sale and conveyance to B, and receives the purchase or mortgage money from Z. A cheats.
Punishment for cheating
417. Whoever cheats shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 3 years, or with fine, or with both.
[51/2007]
[Indian PC 1860, s. 417]
The law is correct.
However, the mistakes on the double sold were not intentional..
One guy keeping track of 100s of items, No search function in Geekhack messages,
Different payment timings from users..
We're used to Amazon .com, but this is just Berserkfan the person, not even Berserkfan.com
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Unfortunately some of them were innocent of all of it, and merely caught in the crossfire.
So your current premise is that because I stopped defending Chen-Fong Goh in public a couple of weeks ago, that gives him license to keep my money and renege on our agreement, with impunity, in a fit of emotional pique?
I am saying that You were Part of THE MOB, of which Pushed out Berserkfan from being able to help you guys.
In that way, however lesser a quantity, you too were part of the Event which lead to the Final Outcome..
While it remains true that you are owed a box, Berserkfan made the larger mistake, but you Also have yourself to blame.
Concurring and buddying up to --Rootwyrm's-- mob, was a mistake, and had you thought about it longer, you'd see that they are NOT an option at all, because they had NO DOCUMENTATION of anything..
Most simply, you could think of it as allying the army which owned no guns and no bullets.
But by lending them credibility as you have, that conscription replaced the Only standing army which COULD'VE salvaged the situation.
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One show of the good faith that can be had in this situation is JD Carpe. The group buy went tits up because of circumstances outside of his control, initiated by a capricious entity.
He communicated clearly and transparently, realizing that he had people's funds- people who had trusted him. He communicated intent to rectify the situation. And he worked towards it with the help of the community.
That's what I'm talking about in regards to taking responsibility, and should be the model for such interactions.
Things will go wrong. That's understandable. But what's not understandable and should not be tolerated is for people to stop being communicative when people trusted them with their money, or to just throw up their hands and walk away.
That should never be acceptable nor accepted behavior.
I ask something of everyone involved in this thread. Can we please stop responding? It's obvious that logic nor rationality is going to prevail in this case, so if we just stop responding, there won't be any more fodder to keep this wound to the community open and bleeding, and perhaps we can start moving past it. And every time someone brings up one of these situations asking for a needless explanation, can we just point them to the thread that was locked? Having this brought up every few months isn't helpful to the community as a whole. There's no way to rectify any of these situations at this point. The person has to be a grown up, and its obvious that in these cases, the person wasn't willing to take the responsibility required to rectify it as a grown up.
The nature of group buys requires trust. But having these aberrations continually focused on is going to kill that as a community, or at least deaden the interest. And all of us will lose.
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I ask something of everyone involved in this thread. Can we please stop responding? It's obvious that logic nor rationality is going to prevail in this case, so if we just stop responding, there won't be any more fodder to keep this wound to the community open and bleeding, and perhaps we can start moving past it.
This Wound is one that YOU , one of 3 main people along with Rootwyrm, Skysphoric, caused.
So you do a bad thing.. You guys Damage the community, and now here you want to close this thread which exposes and properly Record keeps the Order of events..
That is a low place to go, you want this to all go away, when your actions are very much among the causes of the worst outcome to have happened..
Berserkfan is in the wrong, that is for sure, but it was by --YOU (chuckdee), Rootwyrm, and Sky's -- mob thread Which pushed out Berserkfan, who had only been trying to help you guys the entire time
Seriously, the Community? Berserkfan is member with 400 topic starts, and thousands and thousands of posts..
He is far more a member of the community than The 3 of you lot put together..
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I ask something of everyone involved in this thread. Can we please stop responding? It's obvious that logic nor rationality is going to prevail in this case, so if we just stop responding, there won't be any more fodder to keep this wound to the community open and bleeding, and perhaps we can start moving past it.
This Wound is one that YOU , one of 3 main people along with Rootwyrm, Skysphoric, caused.
So you do a bad thing.. You guys Damage the community, and now here you want to close this thread which exposes and properly Record keeps the Order of events..
That is a low place to go, you want this to all go away, when you yourself are very much the cause of the worst outcome to have happened..
Berserkfan is in the wrong, that is for sure, but it was by --Rootwyrm, YOU (chuckdee), and Sky's -- actions that the finality is so poorly actualized.
I never said close it. And that's what you've done with your truth- twist things, and have no knowledge of things that make it into a lie. And try to fault people that just wanted what they paid for, or a refund.
As I said, stop responding. And I'm going to do that now, so you can have the last word if it's that important to you. Seems childish to me, but there you go. Have at it. Or are you adult enough not to reply?
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I ask something of everyone involved in this thread. Can we please stop responding? It's obvious that logic nor rationality is going to prevail in this case, so if we just stop responding, there won't be any more fodder to keep this wound to the community open and bleeding, and perhaps we can start moving past it.
This Wound is one that YOU , one of 3 main people along with Rootwyrm, Skysphoric, caused.
So you do a bad thing.. You guys Damage the community, and now here you want to close this thread which exposes and properly Record keeps the Order of events..
That is a low place to go, you want this to all go away, when your actions are very much among the causes of the worst outcome to have happened..
Berserkfan is in the wrong, that is for sure, but it was by --YOU (chuckdee), Rootwyrm, and Sky's -- mob thread Which pushed out Berserkfan, who had only been trying to help you guys the entire time
Seriously, the Community? Berserkfan is member with 400 topic starts, and thousands and thousands of posts..
He is far more a member of the community than The 3 of you lot put together..
I never said close it. And that's what you've done with your truth- , try to fault people that just wanted what they paid for, or a refund.
As I said, stop responding. And I'm going to do that now, so you can have the last word if it's that important to you. Seems childish to me, but there you go. Have at it. Or are you adult enough not to reply?
I laid out the correct order of events, and the correct interpretation of what happened, and explained indepth the possibility of taking actions on either camp..
What you're requesting now is an attempt to silence the Truth..
You are NOT at fault for wanting your money back.
I have always been in the position that EVERYONE is rightful to get what they paid for,
However, your ACTIONS along with --rootwyrm's mob-- impeded that possibility..
The dissonance created among the Users by You (CHuckdee) and Rootwyrm's mob is what Drove Berserkfan away from being able TO HELP YOU GUYS...
You are not responsible for Berserkfan's Shipping mistake, But you and the mob ARE responsible for why Berserkfan has been unable to exercise HIS plan for proxy swaps, and repayment of people whos boxes were irrecoverable
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I am saying that You were Part of THE MOB, of which Pushed out Berserkfan from being able to help you guys.
Well, if you can call me part of "The Mob" because this is what I posted 4 days ago:
14 weeks today and I have officially given up and accepted that Gutz just totally stole my money and ripped me off.
TP has kept talking about Paypal and Rootwyrm and how I might have gotten a package later if the **** had not hit the fan, but we all know that the entire motivation behind the project was supposedly to get all the volume out of the door immediately before a move. So whatever would have been shipped was certain to be in a box and out the door by early May. The idea that he would cart the stuff to the new house and ship it from there is ludicrous.
I tried to defend him and keep a positive attitude all along, which makes me even more hurt and disappointed now.
My real regret is that I did what he asked and paid via moneygram via cash, so I have no recourse whatsoever.
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I am saying that You were Part of THE MOB, of which Pushed out Berserkfan from being able to help you guys.
Well, if you can call me part of "The Mob" because what I posted 4 days ago
You are part of the mob, because there were several posts made by you, personally thanking skysphoric/rootwyrm of their Malignant efforts to Sabotage Berserkfan's ability to rectify the shipping error with users..
Your allegiance to that Malicious Blood Crying crowd is why , as I've said, you share a portion of the blame as to why Berserkfan had been Pushed aside from Helping.
The record shows, You are Owed, 1 box, Berserkfan Screwed pooch on shipping, Berserkfan attempts recovery, --Rootwyrm-- Mobs, You ally with --Rootwyrm--, Berserfan's been pushed out, Lies and misinformation on part of --Rootwyrm camp-- continues,
Tp4, Public Defender, Champion of Justice, Unbiased Record Keeper, steps in to Correctly interpret the Order of events.
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there were several posts made by you, personally thanking skysphoric/rootwyrm and their Malignant efforts to Sabotage Berserkfan's ability to rectify the shipping error with users..
You should Google the term "reality" and find out what it means.
Skysophrenic's cross-reference is the only comprehensive list in existence that could even begin to untangle the byzantine mayhem that was left in the wake of whatever happened in Singapore during the first week of May.
Unless, of course, Gutz himself has an accurate accounting of what went out, to whom, and when, that he is just keeping to himself.
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there were several posts made by you, personally thanking skysphoric/rootwyrm and their Malignant efforts to Sabotage Berserkfan's ability to rectify the shipping error with users..
Skysophrenic's cross-reference is the only comprehensive list in existence that could even begin to untangle the byzantine mayhem that was left in the wake of whatever happened in Singapore during the first week of May.
Unless, of course, Gutz himself has an accurate accounting of what went out, to whom, and when, that he is just keeping to himself.
Sky's crossreference is also totally useless..
This is a matrix game with players.
Under sky's list, None of the players who got either the equivalent or more than what they paid for could be forced into play.
Whereas, had we used Berserkfan's list, though we do not know what were in the packages, we know WHO got one, and what it weighed..
In that way, Leverage was possible to at least get those people who did not report to Partially Fess up...
With sky's list, there is also no way to check if those players were honest about what they received, because absolutely NO INFORMATION is available besides self-report..
With Berserk's list, if someone was less than truthful, we could say, this box weighed 5 lbs, you're definitly shorting, because you only posted 2 bags of keycaps.
So YOU SEE,,Skysophrenic's List, that ONLY LIST in existence, is ONE that UNRAVELS NOTHING..
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****ing A
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****ing A
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....
Give up Fohat.dig..
You are outclassed in every respect with regards to Internet Arguing.
Not only that, Wars are fundamentally won by resource..
If it came down to that, You'd certainly die before Tp4, given your advanced age..
From what I can tell, you are a small box thinker, it is unlikely that you could manipulate words in your favor..
But, please, Tp4 doesn't h8 you, Tp4 am only here to properly lay down the order of events, and analyze the battlements.
You are not a bad person, but you can not win against the same Justice which you do not disagree with.
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Get a room you two.
(http://38.media.tumblr.com/1a785ebbc9a8c54f4035eaf214b0d68b/tumblr_n9viyrelDc1smcbm7o1_500.gif)
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Get a room you two.
My rate is 1 Ergodox Per hour.