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geekhack Community => Ergonomics => Topic started by: batfink on Wed, 07 September 2016, 11:53:20

Title: Basis for the "correct" touch typing technique
Post by: batfink on Wed, 07 September 2016, 11:53:20: No doubt we have all seen the standard zonal diagram for working out which fingers to use for which keys on a standard keyboard.
Even the Wikipedia page on touch typing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_typing) shows this:

(https://forum.waytools.com/uploads/default/25/ae2afc9492b1c64c.png)

My particular issue is with the Z,X,C,V keys, as pointed out here (http://www.onehandkeyboard.org/standard-qwerty-finger-placement/) and here (http://colemakmods.github.io/ergonomic-mods/angle.html). It's fairly obviously more comfortable and ergonomic to use the index finger for the C key (in most cases).

My question is: Where did this received wisdom come from? On what basis was it decided that this scheme is correct? I think whoever came up with it must have been an idiot - but what's worse, is that everyone seems to accept it as "correct" without question! How could this situation have come about?
Title: Re: Basis for the "correct" touch typing technique
Post by: davkol on Wed, 07 September 2016, 16:11:35: Whole column per finger, that dates back to 1880s or so.

There are also keyboard layouts, that aren't fundamentally broken. Basically anything symmetrical, in fact. It doesn't even have to be Maltron. The standard 0.5u offset relative to home row is insane regardless of fingering scheme.
Title: Re: Basis for the "correct" touch typing technique
Post by: xondat on Wed, 07 September 2016, 16:34:52: I always struggle with hitting ZX. I found resetting to using the home row and then adapting it myself meant that I type a lot quicker but also I don't trip over myself all the time. It's a good guideline to start on in my opinion.

I don't think people accept it as correct when they think about it, it's just the standard and far too difficult to change now.
Title: Re: Basis for the "correct" touch typing technique
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 07 September 2016, 17:42:12: Looking at my typing speed guide..

it would seem that hands do not rest naturally on asdfjkl;, they rest on awefjio;

for q and p, depending on what technique you use, resting-wrist or hover-wrist, you may choose to use ring finger instead of pinky..

For hover wrist, because you can move between the keys really fast, it doesn't matter what finger you use..

For resting -wrist, wrist on the table why typing, THEN, it's easier to use Ring-Finger for -Q- and -P-, because using the pinky is much further away.
Title: Re: Basis for the "correct" touch typing technique
Post by: batfink on Thu, 08 September 2016, 10:04:50: Yeah, I know there are a million things wrong with keyboard design generally, but this a separate thing:

Given the standard keyboard design, it seems obvious that this would be better:
(http://www.onehandkeyboard.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Z_with_ring.png)

Therefore it's bizarre that people who are supposedly experts, i.e. they offer training on "correct" technique, all recommend a system that is worse than is necessary, even given the standard hardware!
Title: Re: Basis for the "correct" touch typing technique
Post by: AMongoose on Thu, 08 September 2016, 10:09:53: This is why I prefer ISO to ANSI.

Quote from: batfink on Thu, 08 September 2016, 10:04:50
Given the standard keyboard design, it seems obvious that this would be better:
Show Image
(http://www.onehandkeyboard.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Z_with_ring.png)

what finger do you press 'B' with then? your forehead :p?
Title: Re: Basis for the "correct" touch typing technique
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 08 September 2016, 11:38:24: That spacebar in the first picture is not giant at all
Title: Re: Basis for the "correct" touch typing technique
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 08 September 2016, 16:46:43: Quote from: batfink on Thu, 08 September 2016, 10:04:50
Yeah, I know there are a million things wrong with keyboard design generally, but this a separate thing:

Given the standard keyboard design, it seems obvious that this would be better:
Show Image
(http://www.onehandkeyboard.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Z_with_ring.png)

Therefore it's bizarre that people who are supposedly experts, i.e. they offer training on "correct" technique, all recommend a system that is worse than is necessary, even given the standard hardware!

If they're not using an Ergodox, They're not experts.. (http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/admire-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862486)
Title: Re: Basis for the "correct" touch typing technique
Post by: MJL on Tue, 18 October 2016, 20:20:25: I like the philosophy of the Norman layout but at my age (64) I am not going to re-learn my typing, especially since I am plagued by arthritis and more and more use less fingers (can no longer do touch typing).

There is also the "minor" issue of relocating the keycaps so you'll have to find a set of keycaps that is having all the keys the same height.

https://normanlayout.info/
Title: Re: Basis for the "correct" touch typing technique
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 18 October 2016, 23:27:48: Quote from: MJL on Tue, 18 October 2016, 20:20:25
I like the philosophy of the Norman layout but at my age (64) I am not going to re-learn my typing, especially since I am plagued by arthritis and more and more use less fingers (can no longer do touch typing).

There is also the "minor" issue of relocating the keycaps so you'll have to find a set of keycaps that is having all the keys the same height.

https://normanlayout.info/

In the beginning , how did you land upon this layout. ?
Title: Re: Basis for the "correct" touch typing technique
Post by: MJL on Wed, 19 October 2016, 02:21:28: Quote from: tp4tissue on Tue, 18 October 2016, 23:27:48

In the beginning , how did you land upon this layout. ?

Was reading up on the Coleman layout, then read about the workman layout and then came across this one.
Title: Re: Basis for the "correct" touch typing technique
Post by: nmur on Wed, 19 October 2016, 02:34:13: i've been using an ergodox for about a month now. one of the reasons i bought one is because of this issue

don't see myself going back to a regular layout anytime soon as it deals with this issue, as well as others
Title: Re: Basis for the "correct" touch typing technique
Post by: MJL on Wed, 19 October 2016, 03:46:02: an interesting website I came across while I was looking at the Norman layout (and criticism of many layouts):

http://xahlee.info/kbd/dvorak_and_all_keyboard_layouts.html
Title: Re: Basis for the "correct" touch typing technique
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 19 October 2016, 06:20:35: Quote from: nmur on Wed, 19 October 2016, 02:34:13
i've been using an ergodox for about a month now. one of the reasons i bought one is because of this issue

don't see myself going back to a regular layout anytime soon as it deals with this issue, as well as others

Only the Ortholinear keyboards, such as Ergodox, TypeMatrix, etc solved this problem adopted from typewriter layout.
Title: Re: Basis for the "correct" touch typing technique
Post by: Fictiouz on Wed, 19 October 2016, 06:25:45: Quote from: menuhin on Wed, 19 October 2016, 06:20:35
Quote from: nmur on Wed, 19 October 2016, 02:34:13
i've been using an ergodox for about a month now. one of the reasons i bought one is because of this issue

don't see myself going back to a regular layout anytime soon as it deals with this issue, as well as others

Only the Ortholinear keyboards, such as Ergodox, TypeMatrix, etc solved this problem adopted from typewriter layout.

When you really think about it typing on qwerty is pretty dumb. It was designed to reduce typing speeds on a typewriter so they wouldn't jam. Since that's not much of an issue anymore the fact that we still do is kinda funny to me :))