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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: jcoffin1981 on Thu, 08 September 2016, 18:30:23
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I have a poker 3 with which I replaced all the switches with Gateron Browns. It works properly, however almost half the keys are pinging. Some of them are kind of subtle, but some are very loud. This occurs not when bottoming out or on the return, but at the point of actuation. There is the pinging sound and then a long reverberation. It sounds like maybe the spring vibrating.
I've never had a board make anywhere near this much noise. To me it's unusable. Is there a secret to mounting the switches that allows for less ping? Is there anyway to predict which switches will do this before soldering them to the board? Is this a known problem with Gateron switches? Most of my other Cherry boards have 1 or 2 switches that ping, and they do so quietly which still annoys me, but it's of course tolerable.
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I fix pinging switches by lubing the ends of the spring with thick lube.
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since it's a brown switch, the easiest solution might be to just insert some lube from the top, when that lube hits bottom and touches the spring, it will absorb spring pings for a long long time, I've been using my lubed keyboard for a year and it still doesn't ping (my plate is plastic tho, that helps too, but the spring lubing is the ultimate solution)
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Gaterons qc is terrible.
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Gaterons qc is terrible.
I received a pack of Cherry Blue's, from Massdrop, that would make you question life
50% of them didn't click, or click-action
25% of them didn't click
All Cherry switches ping too, some much much more than others, it's probably random depending on how the spring sits in the switch, so it's something that could shift/change too
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Yep, Cherry seems to get worse and worse, too.
I consider clicky switches that don't click or barely click broken.
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Likewise
I think whatever the source is, going the DIY route, buying lots of switches, and pre-selecting switches is a good solution, for non-clicky switches lubing is an easy solution, for clicky switches, I usually go through 90-120 for 60 switches, not an easy process
It would probably be impossible for manufacturers to prevent these issues 100%, and even at 99%, if a single switch is the odd one out, that would ruin things up, so the sanest option seems to be just taking a day to just selecting and sampling switches (for a user)
Some people (most) doesn't seem to care, so blissful
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Ping!
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since it's a brown switch, the easiest solution might be to just insert some lube from the top, when that lube hits bottom and touches the spring, it will absorb spring pings for a long long time, I've been using my lubed keyboard for a year and it still doesn't ping (my plate is plastic tho, that helps too, but the spring lubing is the ultimate solution)
On my previous Cherry boards, from the factory (brown) I would have maybe 3 switches that would ping, and rarely were they loud pings. The Gaterons, out of 61 or 62 switches probably about 25 are pinging. I'd love to record it and play it, but I'm sure most people know what a louder than normal ping is.
I'm not sure what you mean by pre-selecting switches. How does one tell that it pings before actually soldering it in place? If I was to lube it would I use dielectric white grease or traxis on the side of the stem? I'm fairly certain that it's the spring making all the racquet. Is that where the lube has to get to? If I have to disassemble each switch then I'm not sure it's worth it for me as I will not be getting much use out of this board anyway. I've found my daily driver and I don't swap it out so much anymore.
EDIT:....Actually, if I put the naked switch to my ear, on many of them I can here the reverberating of the spring when depressing the switch past the actuation point. If I hadn't already assembled the board perhaps I would have taken the time to lube these switches. I've also read that rotating the spring can have an effect.
I have a V60 and not a single issue with ping. I've had problems with chatter, but that's another story.
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since it's a brown switch, the easiest solution might be to just insert some lube from the top, when that lube hits bottom and touches the spring, it will absorb spring pings for a long long time, I've been using my lubed keyboard for a year and it still doesn't ping (my plate is plastic tho, that helps too, but the spring lubing is the ultimate solution)
On my previous Cherry boards, from the factory (brown) I would have maybe 3 switches that would ping, and rarely were they loud pings. The Gaterons, out of 61 or 62 switches probably about 25 are pinging. I'd love to record it and play it, but I'm sure most people know what a louder than normal ping is.
I'm not sure what you mean by pre-selecting switches. How does one tell that it pings before actually soldering it in place? If I was to lube it would I use dielectric white grease or traxis on the side of the stem? I'm fairly certain that it's the spring making all the racquet. Is that where the lube has to get to? If I have to disassemble each switch then I'm not sure it's worth it for me as I will not be getting much use out of this board anyway. I've found my daily driver and I don't swap it out so much anymore.
EDIT:....Actually, if I put the naked switch to my ear, on many of them I can here the reverberating of the spring when depressing the switch past the actuation point. If I hadn't already assembled the board perhaps I would have taken the time to lube these switches. I've also read that rotating the spring can have an effect.
I have a V60 and not a single issue with ping. I've had problems with chatter, but that's another story.
Check this guide: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34332
What I call pre-selecting, segmenting, mostly applies to clicky switches, there's almost nothing you can do to make them click better, the easiest option is to select ones that click the way you like
For linear/tactile switches, just lube the spring, lube the stem if you like, test them before you install them, then enjoy awesome switches and move onto other concerns like layouts, keycaps, stabilisers sounds etc. :)
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One way is to use an Apple M0110 or a Pingmaster for a few weeks. Won't bother you after that xD .
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Yep, Cherry seems to get worse and worse, too.
I consider clicky switches that don't click or barely click broken.
I have no idea how true they were, but one of Razers selling points with the original BlackWidow is that they "cherry" picked the best switches for consistency. And I have to say my Blackwidow is incredibly consistent. All of the switches feel identical. Though this might just be from being very worn in.
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Yep, Cherry seems to get worse and worse, too.
I consider clicky switches that don't click or barely click broken.
I have no idea how true they were, but one of Razers selling points with the original BlackWidow is that they "cherry" picked the best switches for consistency. And I have to say my Blackwidow is incredibly consistent. All of the switches feel identical. Though this might just be from being very worn in.
It's true, or at least, best we can tell. I and others sort of laughed at the idea of hand picked, but they really did seem to be better and more consistent. I think Razer knew something we didn't then, but have begun to, and that is that some of Cherry's molds are not in great shape.
Unfortunately, no one really thought to look at this problem ten or twenty years ago, so we don't really have a one to one comparison of old Cherry vs newer Cherry, but under magnification, looking at the blues in my Filco, which came from a Razer BWU, the legs look almost as smooth as new Gaterons... Almost. Keep in mind that these were used for quite while and then lubed. Newer Cherry's look much, much more pitted, but again, we don't have new old stock to check. Cherry might dispute all of this (don't expect any comment if you ask), and it could be wrong, we only have what we have in our hands and some off-handed remarks to go on.
However, if you want my advice, buy an old Razer BW if you can. They aren't hard to find on Ebay, the bad news is that they aren't that cheap to buy. They seemed to have held their value far better than they should have considering the problems they had (keycaps would cause binding, and some plates rusted BADLY), probably for this very reason.
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Fall of Ping (2016) kickin' it off.. (http://www.msgking.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/onion-olympic08.jpg)
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Yes these are not clicky switches; they are tactile. However they are fresh from the factory in the original bag (gateron browns).
One board I particularly like is the V60 Gateron. I spoke with one the guys in Thailand from a company called Rabbit Web. They stopped selling these boards because of terrible space board chatter. I had a few with this problem, and ultimately I switched out the space switch for a Cherry switch. Now on this board there are about 4 or 5 keys that ping, and mildly or moderately. I'm sure that at $80 a keyboard they are not "cherry picking" the switches that go into them. I just don't understand what it is that causes them to ping so loudly. Maybe a side effect of these Gateron switches being more tactile than the Cherry switches is a greater incidence of pinging.
Also as an aside, the Gateron switches feel MUCH better with very light ABS keycaps vs the heavier PBT Poker keycaps I used when I resoldered the board. Even though the the v60 keycaps have a cheaper feel, they make the Gateron switch feel much more responsive. The heavier keycap loses much of this feeling when using the Poker keycaps. With this effect along with the pinging I just can't use the board. What a waste.
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throw a mat under your keyboard, especially if you have a desk that isn't wood
i've noticed that non solid wood desks can really exaggerate the issue
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I fix pinging switches by lubing the ends of the spring with thick lube.
Just do what this man says and move on, it's the definite solution
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Hmmm, guess I should check the 150 MX greens I have for my GH122 build for clickyness before installing...
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Hmmm, guess I should check the 150 MX greens I have for my GH122 build for clickyness before installing...
The MX Green on my Planck spacebar doesn't click every like 15 presses. I don't understand
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Hmmm, guess I should check the 150 MX greens I have for my GH122 build for clickyness before installing...
The MX Green on my Planck spacebar doesn't click every like 15 presses. I don't understand
If you have anything that even remotely resembles OCD, MX clicky switches are a nightmare
The sanest thing to do is to just replace problematic ones with new ones - you also have to make sure the switches aren't under stress in their slot, that can prevent clicks too
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ya don't use gateron without check them or lubing them. It is a pain. I'm scared for this MOD switches too. I used to spend hours taking apart switches and after a while said screw it just gonna get zealios
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throw a mat under your keyboard, especially if you have a desk that isn't wood
i've noticed that non solid wood desks can really exaggerate the issue
welcome back TS. How is your 3rd? year going?