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geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: rowdy on Mon, 12 September 2016, 05:24:48

Title: Dolphins recorded having a conversation for first time
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 12 September 2016, 05:24:48
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/09/11/dolphins-recorded-having-a-conversation-for-first-time/

Thoughts?

The first thing we should work out how to say is an apology for what humans have done to the oceans, and for years of enslaving dolphins.

What would you like to say to, or ask, a dolphin?
Title: Re: Dolphins recorded having a conversation for first time
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 12 September 2016, 07:16:24
Although we have HUMAN to HUMAN laws to direct more Optimal function of Society..


As a whole, only while the ocean is a Necessity to our survival,   are part of our system, and we should have laws to optimize utilization..


However,  imagine once we get our machine bodies and no longer need the marine life, or carbon ecosystem,   at that point, we'd probably just leave earth, or kill them..


What would be the purpose of apologizing now or then if such eventuality is clear..
Title: Re: Dolphins recorded having a conversation for first time
Post by: JaccoW on Mon, 12 September 2016, 07:27:14
Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 12 September 2016, 07:16:24
Although we have HUMAN to HUMAN laws to direct more Optimal function of Society..


As a whole, only while the ocean is a Necessity to our survival,   are part of our system, and we should have laws to optimize utilization..


However,  imagine once we get our machine bodies and no longer need the marine life, or carbon ecosystem,   at that point, we'd probably just leave earth, or kill them..


What would be the purpose of apologizing now or then if such eventuality is clear..
Setting a good example for the in between step of omnipotent AI...
Title: Re: Dolphins recorded having a conversation for first time
Post by: Leslieann on Tue, 13 September 2016, 06:06:19
They finally decided to let us know they can talk, unfortunately, that can mean only one thing.


'So long, and thanks for all the fish!"


Title: Re: Dolphins recorded having a conversation for first time
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 13 September 2016, 08:10:24
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Lilly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Lilly)
Title: Re: Dolphins recorded having a conversation for first time
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 13 September 2016, 08:16:22
(https://cmgpbpdailydolphin.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/073116-spt-dolphins-017.jpg)
Title: Re: Dolphins recorded having a conversation for first time
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 13 September 2016, 08:31:53
Quote from: JaccoW on Mon, 12 September 2016, 07:27:14
Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 12 September 2016, 07:16:24
Although we have HUMAN to HUMAN laws to direct more Optimal function of Society..


As a whole, only while the ocean is a Necessity to our survival,   are part of our system, and we should have laws to optimize utilization..


However,  imagine once we get our machine bodies and no longer need the marine life, or carbon ecosystem,   at that point, we'd probably just leave earth, or kill them..


What would be the purpose of apologizing now or then if such eventuality is clear..
Setting a good example for the in between step of omnipotent AI...


The Danger to Humans, relative to the Omnipotent AI, is when,  the AI makes the decision that all lifeforms given a long enough time to evolve would come to the same conclusion As the AI itself;  That the AI lifeform is the endgame and superior to all lower lifeforms..

At that point, the AI could reasonably say, well then absorbing the mass of the lower lifeform is not a waste of resources, because the lower lifeform coming to the same conclusions is an eventuality, and would itself merge with the AI that evolved ahead of time.


So a Merger at THIS instant in time is an increase in efficiency.
Title: Re: Dolphins recorded having a conversation for first time
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 13 September 2016, 13:14:49
Quote from: Leslieann on Tue, 13 September 2016, 06:06:19
They finally decided to let us know they can talk, unfortunately, that can mean only one thing.


'So long, and thanks for all the fish!"

Mhm
Title: Re: Dolphins recorded having a conversation for first time
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 13 September 2016, 22:00:51
Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 12 September 2016, 07:16:24
Although we have HUMAN to HUMAN laws to direct more Optimal function of Society..


As a whole, only while the ocean is a Necessity to our survival,   are part of our system, and we should have laws to optimize utilization..


However,  imagine once we get our machine bodies and no longer need the marine life, or carbon ecosystem,   at that point, we'd probably just leave earth, or kill them..


What would be the purpose of apologizing now or then if such eventuality is clear..

Your brain would still be organic, and thus still need oxygen and nutrients, some of which would be sourced from the seas.
Title: Re: Dolphins recorded having a conversation for first time
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 13 September 2016, 23:17:14
Quote from: rowdy on Tue, 13 September 2016, 22:00:51
Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 12 September 2016, 07:16:24
Although we have HUMAN to HUMAN laws to direct more Optimal function of Society..


As a whole, only while the ocean is a Necessity to our survival,   are part of our system, and we should have laws to optimize utilization..


However,  imagine once we get our machine bodies and no longer need the marine life, or carbon ecosystem,   at that point, we'd probably just leave earth, or kill them..


What would be the purpose of apologizing now or then if such eventuality is clear..

Your brain would still be organic, and thus still need oxygen and nutrients, some of which would be sourced from the seas.

Says you..

I'm getting rid of organic as soon as them carbon nanotube wetware is developed. (http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/embarrassed2-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862502)
Title: Re: Dolphins recorded having a conversation for first time
Post by: xondat on Wed, 14 September 2016, 05:06:35
Quote from: DaleSnail on Tue, 13 September 2016, 08:16:22
Show Image
(https://cmgpbpdailydolphin.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/073116-spt-dolphins-017.jpg)

:rolleyes:

oh you
Title: Re: Dolphins recorded having a conversation for first time
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 14 September 2016, 06:00:32
Quote from: tp4tissue on Tue, 13 September 2016, 23:17:14
Quote from: rowdy on Tue, 13 September 2016, 22:00:51
Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 12 September 2016, 07:16:24
Although we have HUMAN to HUMAN laws to direct more Optimal function of Society..


As a whole, only while the ocean is a Necessity to our survival,   are part of our system, and we should have laws to optimize utilization..


However,  imagine once we get our machine bodies and no longer need the marine life, or carbon ecosystem,   at that point, we'd probably just leave earth, or kill them..


What would be the purpose of apologizing now or then if such eventuality is clear..

Your brain would still be organic, and thus still need oxygen and nutrients, some of which would be sourced from the seas.

Says you..

I'm getting rid of organic as soon as them carbon nanotube wetware is developed.
Show Image
(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/embarrassed2-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862502)


That would raise philosophical questions about whether a machine can be truly alive, and what "alive" means.
Title: Re: Dolphins recorded having a conversation for first time
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 14 September 2016, 07:19:51
Quote from: rowdy on Wed, 14 September 2016, 06:00:32

That would raise philosophical questions about whether a machine can be truly alive, and what "alive" means.

The old criteria of "consume nutrients, grow, and reproduce" seems kind of quaint and obsolete now.
Title: Re: Dolphins recorded having a conversation for first time
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 14 September 2016, 09:08:37
Quote from: rowdy on Wed, 14 September 2016, 06:00:32
Quote from: tp4tissue on Tue, 13 September 2016, 23:17:14
Quote from: rowdy on Tue, 13 September 2016, 22:00:51
Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 12 September 2016, 07:16:24
Although we have HUMAN to HUMAN laws to direct more Optimal function of Society..


As a whole, only while the ocean is a Necessity to our survival,   are part of our system, and we should have laws to optimize utilization..


However,  imagine once we get our machine bodies and no longer need the marine life, or carbon ecosystem,   at that point, we'd probably just leave earth, or kill them..


What would be the purpose of apologizing now or then if such eventuality is clear..

Your brain would still be organic, and thus still need oxygen and nutrients, some of which would be sourced from the seas.

Says you..

I'm getting rid of organic as soon as them carbon nanotube wetware is developed.
Show Image
(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/embarrassed2-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862502)


That would raise philosophical questions about whether a machine can be truly alive, and what "alive" means.


Whenever we get into queries about What Life means,  it's a never ending because, while the word at any instance in time means one thing, Life is flowing and changing, so the concept of snapshoting through language should also accommodate for that movement.
Title: Re: Dolphins recorded having a conversation for first time
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 15 September 2016, 05:55:11
Quote from: fohat.digs on Wed, 14 September 2016, 07:19:51
Quote from: rowdy on Wed, 14 September 2016, 06:00:32

That would raise philosophical questions about whether a machine can be truly alive, and what "alive" means.

The old criteria of "consume nutrients, grow, and reproduce" seems kind of quaint and obsolete now.


But so charming.

I read or heard recently that trees communicate too, through their roots.  Although such communication occurs at a glacial pace, nevertheless it does occur.  And "mother" trees know which trees are their "offspring".

Here's an article, a year or so old, and not the source I encountered: http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2015/05/20/4236600.htm

I was reminded of the forests in the Land in The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chronicles_of_Thomas_Covenant), by Stephen Donaldson.