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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Simia_4 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 10:53:21

Title: Swapping out switches
Post by: Simia_4 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 10:53:21
Hey Everyone,
I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this but here goes.

I recently purchased two Ducky Shine 5's, one with MX Blues and the other with MX Browns. I've been using the browns at home and the blues at work. I've grown to love the browns and dislike the blues. I got an email this morning from Massdrop about some Gateron switches and wondered, is it possible to swap out the blue switches with some browns? Not Gateron, but the MX brown switches.
The only thing i'm wondering about are the LED's. I don't want to have to solder/desolder anything and i'm pretty novice even with the idea of taking the switches off. But a couple YouTube videos later, it doesn't seem that difficult to pull out the switches and replace them.

Has anyone done this before, swap out one switch for another on an RGB or backlit board? Was the process difficult?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 27 October 2016, 11:17:04
You have to desolder and solder both switches and LED's in a Ducky Shine 5 to replace switches.
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 27 October 2016, 11:18:02
Hahaha..

Ok Simia_4..


DO NOT attempt to do this..

If you make more than $8 an hour..

You may as well buy another keyboard in the switch of your choice,  instead of doing this thing manually..


Switch swapping is absolutely NOT WORTH the TIME to DO,  it's plain tedious..  especially with LED...



If you have a desoldering station with the vacuum setup,  by all means do it,  but since you're asking questions,  Suppose you prolly don't have such a system.. hahaha..

Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: Simia_4 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 11:22:00
That's pretty much what i was thinking, wouldn't be worth the time/effort and just buy a different board. I don't have any soldering tools nor any experience doing the work.

Okay, that answers my question. Thanks guys!
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: pr0ximity on Thu, 27 October 2016, 12:01:17
Quote from: tp4tissue on Thu, 27 October 2016, 11:18:02
Hahaha..

Ok Simia_4..


DO NOT attempt to do this..

If you make more than $8 an hour..

You may as well buy another keyboard in the switch of your choice,  instead of doing this thing manually..


Switch swapping is absolutely NOT WORTH the TIME to DO,  it's plain tedious..  especially with LED...



If you have a desoldering station with the vacuum setup,  by all means do it,  but since you're asking questions,  Suppose you prolly don't have such a system.. hahaha..

The only caveat is if the keyboard you want doesn't come in the switch you want.

Don't think you can get a Ducky Shine with Gaterons.
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: Simia_4 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 12:04:47
Quote from: pr0ximity on Thu, 27 October 2016, 12:01:17
Quote from: tp4tissue on Thu, 27 October 2016, 11:18:02
Hahaha..

Ok Simia_4..


DO NOT attempt to do this..

If you make more than $8 an hour..

You may as well buy another keyboard in the switch of your choice,  instead of doing this thing manually..


Switch swapping is absolutely NOT WORTH the TIME to DO,  it's plain tedious..  especially with LED...



If you have a desoldering station with the vacuum setup,  by all means do it,  but since you're asking questions,  Suppose you prolly don't have such a system.. hahaha..

The only caveat is if the keyboard you want doesn't come in the switch you want.

Don't think you can get a Ducky Shine with Gaterons.

No, i'd go MX Browns as the replacement. It was just seeing that email this morning that got me thinking about it.
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: Simia_4 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 12:10:01
Quote from: pr0ximity on Thu, 27 October 2016, 12:01:17
Quote from: tp4tissue on Thu, 27 October 2016, 11:18:02
Hahaha..

Ok Simia_4..


DO NOT attempt to do this..

If you make more than $8 an hour..

You may as well buy another keyboard in the switch of your choice,  instead of doing this thing manually..


Switch swapping is absolutely NOT WORTH the TIME to DO,  it's plain tedious..  especially with LED...



If you have a desoldering station with the vacuum setup,  by all means do it,  but since you're asking questions,  Suppose you prolly don't have such a system.. hahaha..

The only caveat is if the keyboard you want doesn't come in the switch you want.

Don't think you can get a Ducky Shine with Gaterons.

I don't think i'd go with another ducky shine 5 though. I want to branch out and check out some other models. It would just have to be TK.
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: 1391406 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 12:24:57
I was going to suggest the Glorious Modular Mechanical Keyboard, which allows you to easily pop out and swap switches without soldering, but it's a full sized board, not TKL.
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: DuckNorris on Thu, 27 October 2016, 12:48:05
In this topic, I know this may sound very noobish since i usually always but the keyboard assembled. If one buys switches , and buys the other parts, does one still have to solder the switches on the board? Like even if they are kits etc , one ends up soldering them? I need to know since I am REALLY wanting to get some Gaterons for future projects as I can simply buy MX Cherry but not the case for these.
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 27 October 2016, 14:19:53
AFAIK, everything has to be soldered, unless the PCB is specifically built for 'hot-swappable' usage.
@tp4tissue
Mister, please don't judge everybody or every activity by hourly pay. Perhaps someone would find intrinsic pleasure in certain activities, such as orgasm (e.g., eating good food, typing on a superb keyboard for non-work purposes, etc), desoldering switches, or mopping my floor.
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: pr0ximity on Thu, 27 October 2016, 14:26:13
Quote from: DuckNorris on Thu, 27 October 2016, 12:48:05
In this topic, I know this may sound very noobish since i usually always but the keyboard assembled. If one buys switches , and buys the other parts, does one still have to solder the switches on the board? Like even if they are kits etc , one ends up soldering them? I need to know since I am REALLY wanting to get some Gaterons for future projects as I can simply buy MX Cherry but not the case for these.
Yup, they must be soldered, even if you hand-wire. The only exception is the small number of hot-swappable boards out there like the Glorious Module (which I cannot speak to about quality, I've personally been skeptical of that imo obnoxious brand name)
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: Geroximo on Thu, 27 October 2016, 16:30:11
I changed the  MX black switches on my QFR for 65g lubed MX blacks and it was absolutly worth it.
It is pretty easy if you have proper solder skills.

Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 27 October 2016, 17:19:17
Switch swaps are easier if you don't have to deal with LEDs

On a ducky shine, it'll be really annoying
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: Simia_4 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 17:24:13
Yeah i think i'm resolved to just get a new board. Everyone has had great feedback!
I'm thinking about the Ducky One but not sure. Is there something comparable for a bit cheaper? I've already got the magicforce 68 but i'd like something a bit bigger, but still TKL.

*Edit*
Seems i can't find a Ducky One in MX Browns for nothing.
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: 1391406 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 17:50:08
Quote from: Simia_4 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 17:24:13
Is there something comparable for a bit cheaper?

Yes, The Glorious Gaming Mechanical Keyboard.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81dUICCjQDL._SL1500_.jpg)

Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: Simia_4 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 17:51:59
Quote from: 1391406 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 17:50:08
Quote from: Simia_4 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 17:24:13
Is there something comparable for a bit cheaper?

Yes, The Glorious Gaming Mechanical Keyboard.

Show Image
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81dUICCjQDL._SL1500_.jpg)


Sorry, i guess i should have said similar to the Ducky One.
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: 1391406 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 18:10:55
Quote from: Simia_4 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 17:51:59
Quote from: 1391406 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 17:50:08
Quote from: Simia_4 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 17:24:13
Is there something comparable for a bit cheaper?

Yes, The Glorious Gaming Mechanical Keyboard.

Show Image
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81dUICCjQDL._SL1500_.jpg)


Sorry, i guess i should have said similar to the Ducky One.

To me, this looks pretty similar, unless you're talking about the TKL:

(http://i.imgur.com/T0dXzp9.jpg)
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: Simia_4 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 18:21:55
Quote from: 1391406 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 18:10:55
Quote from: Simia_4 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 17:51:59
Quote from: 1391406 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 17:50:08
Quote from: Simia_4 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 17:24:13
Is there something comparable for a bit cheaper?

Yes, The Glorious Gaming Mechanical Keyboard.

Show Image
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81dUICCjQDL._SL1500_.jpg)


Sorry, i guess i should have said similar to the Ducky One.

To me, this looks pretty similar, unless you're talking about the TKL:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/T0dXzp9.jpg)


Yep, TKL.
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: DuckNorris on Fri, 28 October 2016, 13:30:40
Quote from: pr0ximity on Thu, 27 October 2016, 14:26:13
Quote from: DuckNorris on Thu, 27 October 2016, 12:48:05
In this topic, I know this may sound very noobish since i usually always but the keyboard assembled. If one buys switches , and buys the other parts, does one still have to solder the switches on the board? Like even if they are kits etc , one ends up soldering them? I need to know since I am REALLY wanting to get some Gaterons for future projects as I can simply buy MX Cherry but not the case for these.
Yup, they must be soldered, even if you hand-wire. The only exception is the small number of hot-swappable boards out there like the Glorious Module (which I cannot speak to about quality, I've personally been skeptical of that imo obnoxious brand name)

Whew, seems I will have to revisit them soldering days from those electrical engineering classes I took for fun. Thank you very much, give me something to keep in mind for future projects.
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 13:57:05
The labor of desoldering the board is not worth it, and the cost of the switches alone would be half the purchase price of a new board.  You would have something like 425 contact points to solder and resolder and the LED's are a PITA.

They do make kits to build your own board, but I don't know if they come preassembled where you can simply drop in the switches.  You may have to solder diodes and install a controller and firmware etc.  If you have some technical know-how you may enjoy this project.  I'm sure somebody else can give you more info on this.
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 03 November 2016, 06:22:21
Quote from: jcoffin1981 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 13:57:05
The labor of desoldering the board is not worth it, and the cost of the switches alone would be half the purchase price of a new board.  You would have something like 425 contact points to solder and resolder and the LED's are a PITA.

They do make kits to build your own board, but I don't know if they come preassembled where you can simply drop in the switches.  You may have to solder diodes and install a controller and firmware etc.  If you have some technical know-how you may enjoy this project.  I'm sure somebody else can give you more info on this.

Not for the MX people.
But the ALPS collectors love to desolder - well, that's their only way, should I say they have to. I would prefer hot-swappable PCB if I have to do this to try out things often. And I plan to install SIP sockets for my LEDs so that I don't have to desolder them in case I want to mod the switches.
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 03 November 2016, 06:42:45


Quote from: menuhin on Thu, 03 November 2016, 06:22:21
Quote from: jcoffin1981 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 13:57:05
The labor of desoldering the board is not worth it, and the cost of the switches alone would be half the purchase price of a new board.  You would have something like 425 contact points to solder and resolder and the LED's are a PITA.

They do make kits to build your own board, but I don't know if they come preassembled where you can simply drop in the switches.  You may have to solder diodes and install a controller and firmware etc.  If you have some technical know-how you may enjoy this project.  I'm sure somebody else can give you more info on this.

Not for the MX people.
But the ALPS collectors love to desolder - well, that's their only way, should I say they have to. I would prefer hot-swappable PCB if I have to do this to try out things often. And I plan to install SIP sockets for my LEDs so that I don't have to desolder them in case I want to mod the switches.

SIP sockets only help if your plate allows switch top removal and you still have to remove and replace all the LEDs in the sockets.

There was talk at one time about having switch tops made with a cutout so the LED could stay in and top still be removed when applicable.

And anyone who plans to mod more than one or two boards especially backlit boards a powered solder sucker is definitely worth it.
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 03 November 2016, 07:41:10
Quote from: SpAmRaY on Thu, 03 November 2016, 06:42:45


Quote from: menuhin on Thu, 03 November 2016, 06:22:21
Quote from: jcoffin1981 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 13:57:05
The labor of desoldering the board is not worth it, and the cost of the switches alone would be half the purchase price of a new board.  You would have something like 425 contact points to solder and resolder and the LED's are a PITA.

They do make kits to build your own board, but I don't know if they come preassembled where you can simply drop in the switches.  You may have to solder diodes and install a controller and firmware etc.  If you have some technical know-how you may enjoy this project.  I'm sure somebody else can give you more info on this.

Not for the MX people.
But the ALPS collectors love to desolder - well, that's their only way, should I say they have to. I would prefer hot-swappable PCB if I have to do this to try out things often. And I plan to install SIP sockets for my LEDs so that I don't have to desolder them in case I want to mod the switches.

SIP sockets only help if your plate allows switch top removal and you still have to remove and replace all the LEDs in the sockets.

There was talk at one time about having switch tops made with a cutout so the LED could stay in and top still be removed when applicable.

And anyone who plans to mod more than one or two boards especially backlit boards a powered solder sucker is definitely worth it.

It's good to know more. Thanks for the tip.

So even if I use SIP sockets on a plate that allows switch top removal, all the LEDs popped out for switch modding cannot be reused again?
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 03 November 2016, 08:03:20
Quote from: menuhin on Thu, 03 November 2016, 07:41:10
Quote from: SpAmRaY on Thu, 03 November 2016, 06:42:45


Quote from: menuhin on Thu, 03 November 2016, 06:22:21
Quote from: jcoffin1981 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 13:57:05
The labor of desoldering the board is not worth it, and the cost of the switches alone would be half the purchase price of a new board.  You would have something like 425 contact points to solder and resolder and the LED's are a PITA.

They do make kits to build your own board, but I don't know if they come preassembled where you can simply drop in the switches.  You may have to solder diodes and install a controller and firmware etc.  If you have some technical know-how you may enjoy this project.  I'm sure somebody else can give you more info on this.

Not for the MX people.
But the ALPS collectors love to desolder - well, that's their only way, should I say they have to. I would prefer hot-swappable PCB if I have to do this to try out things often. And I plan to install SIP sockets for my LEDs so that I don't have to desolder them in case I want to mod the switches.

SIP sockets only help if your plate allows switch top removal and you still have to remove and replace all the LEDs in the sockets.

There was talk at one time about having switch tops made with a cutout so the LED could stay in and top still be removed when applicable.

And anyone who plans to mod more than one or two boards especially backlit boards a powered solder sucker is definitely worth it.

It's good to know more. Thanks for the tip.

So even if I use SIP sockets on a plate that allows switch top removal, all the LEDs popped out for switch modding cannot be reused again?
They can be reused I was just pointing out they still have to be removed unless the switch top plastic is removed around the LED area.

Also don't forget you'll have to keep the polarity straight somehow when putting them back in. So maybe have a system setup to keep track of that.
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: Ahlitah on Thu, 03 November 2016, 08:04:10
If you want TKL instead of the Glorious gaming board which is Full Size, how about something like the Zhuque board, its simlar where it has SMD-Leds and the switches are hot swapable as well

here is a review


Its avail at Amazon and a bunch of other places, cheap too.

I don't think the stock one comes with brown switches so you will have to find some switches and swap them, which is easy on this board.



Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Sun, 06 November 2016, 19:57:35
I like the look of these floating keys, but I don't know anything about these Gaote switches.
Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: Ahlitah on Mon, 07 November 2016, 09:03:26
They are Outemu swtiches

like these on Massdrop but with SMD led cutouts, which the massdrop ones don't have

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/outemu-switches-120-pack

I kinda like the Blue Outemu swtichs on this board, but don't think I like the TKL size, I keep missing my num pad :(

They do have full sized as well.

Title: Re: Swapping out switches
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Tue, 22 November 2016, 19:29:11
Quote from: SpAmRaY on Thu, 03 November 2016, 08:03:20
Quote from: menuhin on Thu, 03 November 2016, 07:41:10
Quote from: SpAmRaY on Thu, 03 November 2016, 06:42:45


Quote from: menuhin on Thu, 03 November 2016, 06:22:21
Quote from: jcoffin1981 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 13:57:05
The labor of desoldering the board is not worth it, and the cost of the switches alone would be half the purchase price of a new board.  You would have something like 425 contact points to solder and resolder and the LED's are a PITA.

They do make kits to build your own board, but I don't know if they come preassembled where you can simply drop in the switches.  You may have to solder diodes and install a controller and firmware etc.  If you have some technical know-how you may enjoy this project.  I'm sure somebody else can give you more info on this.

Not for the MX people.
But the ALPS collectors love to desolder - well, that's their only way, should I say they have to. I would prefer hot-swappable PCB if I have to do this to try out things often. And I plan to install SIP sockets for my LEDs so that I don't have to desolder them in case I want to mod the switches.

SIP sockets only help if your plate allows switch top removal and you still have to remove and replace all the LEDs in the sockets.

There was talk at one time about having switch tops made with a cutout so the LED could stay in and top still be removed when applicable.

And anyone who plans to mod more than one or two boards especially backlit boards a powered solder sucker is definitely worth it.

It's good to know more. Thanks for the tip.

So even if I use SIP sockets on a plate that allows switch top removal, all the LEDs popped out for switch modding cannot be reused again?
They can be reused I was just pointing out they still have to be removed unless the switch top plastic is removed around the LED area.

Also don't forget you'll have to keep the polarity straight somehow when putting them back in. So maybe have a system setup to keep track of that.

WHen the LED's are new the legs of the contacts are different lengths.  If they are already installed they are cut obviously.  If you look at the architecture inside the LED, the filament or diode or whatever it's called you will see that it's not symmetrical.  There is a diagonal line going across in one direction.  You just match the structures inside the bulb to match the rest on the board.  If you have shorter or rounder LED's they may look a little different.