geekhack
geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: Eszett on Sun, 20 November 2016, 05:17:53
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Hi.. what kind of LED package I have to use when I want to fit SMD LEDs in those SMD-LED-compatible switches, made by Cherry/Gateron? And what exact position must they have in relation to the switches center?
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What board are you using?
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I'd like to build my own PCB for it. Cherry writes "CHERRY MX1A... ... MX switch variant optimised for use with SMD LEDs (RGB or single colour)" but the datasheet gives no info about the dimensions of the LED slot, and what kind of SMD LEDs shall be used. http://www.cherry.de/cid/keymodules_CHERRY_MX1A-LxxA_B.htm? (http://www.cherry.de/cid/keymodules_CHERRY_MX1A-LxxA_B.htm?)
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I think any kind of SMD leds will works, the most common is 5050 ;)
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I think any kind of SMD leds will works, the most common is 5050 ;)
Don't you think the SMD LEDs will collide with the switch housing if they dont fit through the Switch's LED slot?
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I'd like to build my own PCB for it. Cherry writes "CHERRY MX1A... ... MX switch variant optimised for use with SMD LEDs (RGB or single colour)" but the datasheet gives no info about the dimensions of the LED slot, and what kind of SMD LEDs shall be used. http://www.cherry.de/cid/keymodules_CHERRY_MX1A-LxxA_B.htm? (http://www.cherry.de/cid/keymodules_CHERRY_MX1A-LxxA_B.htm?)
The LED gap on my gateron switches are about 3mm x9.5mm. Cherry ones should be similar?
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I think any kind of SMD leds will works, the most common is 5050 ;)
Don't you think the SMD LEDs will collide with the switch housing if they dont fit through the Switch's LED slot?
Double post soz.
There's a gap on the side of the switch housing on them smd led compatible switches to take into account the height of the smd leds. It shouldn't collide. I'm at work at the moment so I can't get a photo.
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cherry mx rgb switches and some gaterons support rgb smd led's
you need gaterons in white housings
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I think any kind of SMD leds will works, the most common is 5050 ;)
Don't you think the SMD LEDs will collide with the switch housing if they dont fit through the Switch's LED slot?
Double post soz.
There's a gap on the side of the switch housing on them smd led compatible switches to take into account the height of the smd leds. It shouldn't collide. I'm at work at the moment so I can't get a photo.
+1 I think so too
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I'm pretty sure that any SMD LED wont fit, if I took a larger it will collide with the switch housing,. So my question is which package will fit?
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SMD LED compatible switch, a SMD LED. See that gap? As long as the LED sits flat on the PCB, or even 1-2mm raised from the PCB it will work. I think these smd leds I have are 3528 ones.
(http://i.imgur.com/XUUpByl.jpg)
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Looking at the switch, the cavity for the SMD led is pretty large. I did some rough measurements, rounding down, and came up with this:
[attachimg=1]
edit: this is a gateron SMD switch.
On cherry site they have a picture from the underside, and the space looks like a 1,8mm square, centered between the led pins. It is probably easier to just bottom mount the SMD leds and not worry about positioning and clearance that much. That way you can also use switches like the zealios or frosted gaterons without problems.
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Excellent answer by SKD and pomk, thanks for the dimensions! However, I wonder abit: if the light can merely pass through the slot isn't that wasting a alot of light? Wouldnt it be better then to have SMD LED's that actually fit into the slow to reach out of the switch housing?
[attachimg=1]
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Internal reflection should work pretty well. But a clear house bottom would be ideal, which I don't think they exist.
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Excellent answer by SKD and pomk, thanks for the dimensions! However, I wonder abit: if the light can merely pass through the slot isn't that wasting a alot of light? Wouldnt it be better then to have SMD LED's that actually fit into the slow to reach out of the switch housing?
(Attachment Link)
yes but try to find a 3mm rgb led
Internal reflection should work pretty well. But a clear house bottom would be ideal, which I don't think they exist.
there are clear key switch housing and also milky versions
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In the gateron switches the wall are off-white colour, and so reflect something like 70% of light in a diffused manner. Also the distribution of light from the SMD led is not even, but rather directed to the top. You can check the spatial distribution chart of any led you wish to use.
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Excellent answer by SKD and pomk, thanks for the dimensions! However, I wonder abit: if the light can merely pass through the slot isn't that wasting a alot of light? Wouldnt it be better then to have SMD LED's that actually fit into the slow to reach out of the switch housing?
(Attachment Link)
yes but try to find a 3mm rgb led
Internal reflection should work pretty well. But a clear house bottom would be ideal, which I don't think they exist.
there are clear key switch housing and also milky versions
There is? I haven't been able to find any clear top/bottom switches that are also smd led compatible. Where do I find this?
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Excellent answer by SKD and pomk, thanks for the dimensions! However, I wonder abit: if the light can merely pass through the slot isn't that wasting a alot of light? Wouldnt it be better then to have SMD LED's that actually fit into the slow to reach out of the switch housing?
(Attachment Link)
yes but try to find a 3mm rgb led
Internal reflection should work pretty well. But a clear house bottom would be ideal, which I don't think they exist.
there are clear key switch housing and also milky versions
There is? I haven't been able to find any clear top/bottom switches that are also smd led compatible. Where do I find this?
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/smd-led-compatible-gateron-switches
or just cherry mx rgb switches
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Oh I have those already. I meant both switch top and bottom housing are clear, like zealios but smd compatible.
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OK let me recap: SMD LED compatible switches feature a little cavity below the switch bottom housing, that give room for SMD LEDs. However - and I think we agree with that - this makes only sense, if the switch *bottom housing* is transparent, to let the light pass through as much as possible. So why have the SMD LED compatible switches no transparent switch bottom housings, that is hard to understand!?
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Front soldered RGB LEDs with transparent top housing switches:
https://world.taobao.com/item/536572743977.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.54i7xT#detail
(at least it appears that way)
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OK let me recap: SMD LED compatible switches feature a little cavity below the switch bottom housing, that give room for SMD LEDs. However - and I think we agree with that - this makes only sense, if the switch *bottom housing* is transparent, to let the light pass through as much as possible. So why have the SMD LED compatible switches no transparent switch bottom housings, that is hard to understand!?
I'm not sure if I understand the problem. I should probably take some pictures from the underside of the gateron SMD swithch to show how little the bottom housing actually blocks light. Cherry SMD switches have clear bottom and top housings, but the opening/cavity is much smaller.
edit: actually massdrop has a pretty ok picture from the underside as well. As you can see, most of the opening is either uncovered or covered by the clear top housing only.
(https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/smd-led-compatible-gateron-switches/MD-14613_20151222110206_5959fae28ee1be50.jpg?auto=format&fm=jpg&fit=crop&w=1023&dpr=1)
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that's why I will use THT RGB LEDs for my keyboards, 2x5x5mm package seems working fine ;D
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Cherry SMD switches have clear bottom and top housings, but the opening/cavity is much smaller.
@pomk As far as I can see it Cherry's RGB switches don't have a translucent bottom housing. I don't understand how that matches Cherry's description "Optimized for SMD LEDs".
But that's going abit far from my original question, which was: What kind of SMD LEDs fit under those RGB switches. The answers were 5050, and 3528.
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Sure looks translucent to me :confused:
[attachimg=1]
5050 is 5mm x 5mm, there is no way it will fit inside the cavity in the above picture and I doubt that 3528 as any higher chance. Where did you find this information?
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@pomk deadall and SKD wrote it in this thread ...
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Ah, sorry. They, or any other that fits in the cavity diagram I made, should fit under gateron smd switches. I thought you were interested in the cherry rgb switches and their clear bottom housings with considerably smaller cavities.
At least the following should work as well: 4014, 3535, 3030, 3020, 3014, 2835, 1206 and 1104. 1104 would probably work with cherry rgb as well.
Most if not all boards that feature cherry rgb switches actually use bottom mounted smd leds and those would work with gateron, cherry, zealios, matias etc. as long as the bottom housing can pass light.
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@pomk deadall and SKD wrote it in this thread ...
eh? I said THT (through-hole technology) not SMD (surface mounted device)
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If somebody buys the Gateron switches with a space for SMD LEDs in the bottom housing then please measure the dimensions precisely with calipers and post the data. Or even better, if somebody has a data sheet for the switch then post the link, please.
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If somebody buys the Gateron switches with a space for SMD LEDs in the bottom housing then please measure the dimensions precisely with calipers and post the data. Or even better, if somebody has a data sheet for the switch then post the link, please.
I have them at hand, but no calipers. :( If someone plans on making a rgb pcb, I'd suggest just using bottom mounted smd leds to get rid of any and all compatibility problems.
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I was thinking along the lines whether I can find an RGB SMD LED which would have a tight fit into the space. If yes then I could use them even without a PCB. It requires a bit of skills to solder an enameled wire. But it is not hard if the wire diameter is small. And enameled wire is probably the most easy thing how to quickly hand-wire a keyboard. Since keyboard matrix is very simple an regular, it is quicker to just hand-wire prototypes than even trying to design a PCB. Maybe swill will extend his keyboard plate tool to a PCB making tool too though :cool:
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I'd like to build my own PCB for it. Cherry writes "CHERRY MX1A... ... MX switch variant optimised for use with SMD LEDs (RGB or single colour)" but the datasheet gives no info about the dimensions of the LED slot, and what kind of SMD LEDs shall be used. http://www.cherry.de/cid/keymodules_CHERRY_MX1A-LxxA_B.htm? (http://www.cherry.de/cid/keymodules_CHERRY_MX1A-LxxA_B.htm?)
The LED gap on my gateron switches are about 3mm x9.5mm. Cherry ones should be similar?
If somebody buys the Gateron switches with a space for SMD LEDs in the bottom housing then please measure the dimensions precisely with calipers and post the data. Or even better, if somebody has a data sheet for the switch then post the link, please.
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Yes, actually a bit larger than that. Important thing to note is that cherry rgb switches are nothing alike.
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Yes, I know. Cherry smd switches are useless for my experiment. From what I have seen Gaterons SMD LED compatible are the only option where it makes sense to try it. I need to fit a large SMD diode there so that it is still easy to solder. Well, a through hole LED would be better but through hole RGB LEDs are huge (typically Ø 5mm bulbs - that is too much). I did not see any through hole RGB LED "bricks" with dimensions around 3x8x4.5 mm.
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Zeal sells some, but at a steep price compared to smd ones.