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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: JunkFace on Wed, 30 November 2016, 13:08:12
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Hey all.
I have a black HHKB pro2 I use as a daily driver here at home and I use a Realforce 104UB at work. I dearly love both keyboards but I have to say I really am fond of the HHKB.
Problem is the layout of these boards is so different (obviously) and I've noticed I've been making a lot of mistakes on either keyboard since I type so much every day. If I were to get another keyboard it would be a work HHKB 2 but I don't know if going for the type S would be worth it or not. I know it seems silly spending over $200 on a keyboard then asking yourself if spending another $100 is silly worth it or not but I really don't know if it's worth it.
Will getting a type S make me hate my regular HHKB? I really am fond of topre and don't think I'll ever go back and there's only one layout like the HHKB so what should I do? I'm leaning more to wards the regular HHKB as opposed to the type S.
Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks!
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Hey all.
I have a black HHKB pro2 I use as a daily driver here at home and I use a Realforce 104UB at work. I dearly love both keyboards but I have to say I really am fond of the HHKB.
Problem is the layout of these boards is so different (obviously) and I've noticed I've been making a lot of mistakes on either keyboard since I type so much every day. If I were to get another keyboard it would be a work HHKB 2 but I don't know if going for the type S would be worth it or not. I know it seems silly spending over $200 on a keyboard then asking yourself if spending another $100 is silly worth it or not but I really don't know if it's worth it.
Will getting a type S make me hate my regular HHKB? I really am fond of topre and don't think I'll ever go back and there's only one layout like the HHKB so what should I do? I'm leaning more to wards the regular HHKB as opposed to the type S.
Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks!
If you're in the USA, I'd get a stock HHKB + these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/63-Silencing-Rings-for-Topre-Switch-Keyboards-/252658239637?hash=item3ad39ac895:g:zjAAAOSwLVZVtoi4
Type-S is absolutely not the worth the money in my opinion.
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Type-S can be worth the money depending on your situation. If sound is no issue, go with standard hhkb Pro2. Then if you realize you need to make it quieter for work, there are a ton of modification you can do to make that happen. I for one love my type-S but I love my Lubed pro2 even more.
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Hey all.
I have a black HHKB pro2 I use as a daily driver here at home and I use a Realforce 104UB at work. I dearly love both keyboards but I have to say I really am fond of the HHKB.
Problem is the layout of these boards is so different (obviously) and I've noticed I've been making a lot of mistakes on either keyboard since I type so much every day. If I were to get another keyboard it would be a work HHKB 2 but I don't know if going for the type S would be worth it or not. I know it seems silly spending over $200 on a keyboard then asking yourself if spending another $100 is silly worth it or not but I really don't know if it's worth it.
Will getting a type S make me hate my regular HHKB? I really am fond of topre and don't think I'll ever go back and there's only one layout like the HHKB so what should I do? I'm leaning more to wards the regular HHKB as opposed to the type S.
Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks!
If you're in the USA, I'd get a stock HHKB + these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/63-Silencing-Rings-for-Topre-Switch-Keyboards-/252658239637?hash=item3ad39ac895:g:zjAAAOSwLVZVtoi4
Type-S is absolutely not the worth the money in my opinion.
I second this. They take at most 15 minutes to install and the result is just as quiet as a Type-S.
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Wow! Thanks for the quick replies guys. Looks like this was an easier decision than I thought it would be.
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As someone that uses both a RF and a HHKB at work...
No one will notice the sound of the HHKB so don't get the Type S for that....
You will get used to going back and forth with the RF...most of your mistakes are probably the backspace....
When I first got my HHKB and for probably more than a month, it was hard to go back and forth...it wasn't the arrow keys and it wasn't the CTRL (which I easily got used to going back and forth with), it was the backspace...It was so problematic I pretty much made up my mind to just get rid of the HHKB even though I really liked it...I figured I'd end up on random standard keyboards so I needed to use those...
Then it just clicked and going back and forth became very normal..just like driving on the right or left side of the street..if you do it enough you get used to switching back and forth..
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Don't look at the Type-S as a better HHKB, or an upgraded Pro 2. It's simply not. It's just a different experience.
I spent weeks looking at the keyboard before finally ordering one to go alongside my Pro 2. I sat down and typed on it and was pretty underwhelmed, as I was kind of expecting more. The first time you type on a HHKB, it's a really unique and awesome Topre experience, but the Type S isn't that way. Don't get me wrong, it's still a great keyboard. It's just a different sound and feeling, not necessarily better or worse.
Lubed, the Type-S is pretty quiet. I used mine at work for a long time before getting a secondhand 55g 87U Hipro. I've always been partial to the sound and feeling of silenced Topre switches, so I will most likely put some Hypersphere rings on my current board.
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I would get the "S" myself if you don't mind the extra cost. I prefer it over my various modified/silenced HHKBs. But that's me :thumb: :thumb:
Carry on!!
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Hey all.
I have a black HHKB pro2 I use as a daily driver here at home and I use a Realforce 104UB at work. I dearly love both keyboards but I have to say I really am fond of the HHKB.
Problem is the layout of these boards is so different (obviously) and I've noticed I've been making a lot of mistakes on either keyboard since I type so much every day. If I were to get another keyboard it would be a work HHKB 2 but I don't know if going for the type S would be worth it or not. I know it seems silly spending over $200 on a keyboard then asking yourself if spending another $100 is silly worth it or not but I really don't know if it's worth it.
Will getting a type S make me hate my regular HHKB? I really am fond of topre and don't think I'll ever go back and there's only one layout like the HHKB so what should I do? I'm leaning more to wards the regular HHKB as opposed to the type S.
Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks!
If you're in the USA, I'd get a stock HHKB + these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/63-Silencing-Rings-for-Topre-Switch-Keyboards-/252658239637?hash=item3ad39ac895:g:zjAAAOSwLVZVtoi4
Type-S is absolutely not the worth the money in my opinion.
I second this. They take at most 15 minutes to install and the result is just as quiet as a Type-S.
Don't those dampening rings effect travel distance? Type-S on the other hand has longer stems to eliminate this.
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IMO Type-S feels a bit worthier while typing than the standard version. My guess is that you will prefer it after some time.
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Don't those dampening rings effect travel distance? Type-S on the other hand has longer stems to eliminate this.
I"m not sure if all lube will make a standard pro2 more quiet. But I lubed mine and it's as quiet if not more quiet than my type-s. But this is one solution.
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Will getting a type S make me hate my regular HHKB?
I would say there's no way you'd ever begin to hate your regular HHKB.
I really am fond of topre and don't think I'll ever go back and there's only one layout like the HHKB so what should I do?
I would say don't stress too much over this decision. Personally I love the feel of HHKB Type-S and feel like it is definitely worth paying extra for, unfortunately, the extra $$ is a large amount. If the regular Topre sound of your RealForce 104UB is not too loud for your office, then there's not a huge reason to pay extra for your second HHKB to be Type-S. However, it may be worth it just to experience the difference for yourself. If you grow to love the Type-S difference, don't worry, I don't think you'll love your regular HHKB less. You may just appreciate each of them for their differences.
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As someone that uses both a RF and a HHKB at work...
You will get used to going back and forth with the RF...most of your mistakes are probably the backspace....
When I first got my HHKB and for probably more than a month, it was hard to go back and forth...it wasn't the arrow keys and it wasn't the CTRL (which I easily got used to going back and forth with), it was the backspace...It was so problematic I pretty much made up my mind to just get rid of the HHKB even though I really liked it...I figured I'd end up on random standard keyboards so I needed to use those...
Then it just clicked and going back and forth became very normal..just like driving on the right or left side of the street..if you do it enough you get used to switching back and forth..
My problem is with CTRL. CTRL on the HHKB is so brilliantly placed, I honestly don't know why more keyboards waste such a prominent location on the caps lock key. I also feel the key placement/size is slightly different between the two boards. Surprisingly backspace doesn't bother me at all.
There are a lot of things I like about the realforce. I love that it has a dedicated 10key, delete, print screen and arrow buttons, it's weight makes it feel like the build quality is better, it doesn't slide on a regular desk. I love my 104UB but that HHKB CTRL button is a thing of beauty.
Edit: I did a little research just now and discovered I can remap keys in the registry. WOW. This is going to make life so much simpler. Apart from the space savings of the HHKB I think this RF board may actually be better suited for work with the remap.
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I have both. I use the Type-S at work and appreciate the quieter operations in that environment, because I don't want to get on the nerves of my co-workers. Before I bought them, I feared that the silencing would impact the typing feel, but it turned out to be actually the opposite: it somehow manages to makes the keys feel even "smoother", imho, without the loss of key travel and that bad feeling you get from using o-rings to silence any non-silent-first keyboard.
So if I had to choose now, I'd buy the Type-S no doubt. That it's not available in black sucks, but functionality trumps esthetics in the end.
Don't get me wrong though: the standard HHKB is still a great keyboard, floating miles above the competition.
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Don't those dampening rings effect travel distance? Type-S on the other hand has longer stems to eliminate this.
I wanted to try and silence my regular HHKB 2 for use in the office, and so yesterday I installed the hypersphere rings. In my opinion, the rings do an AMAZING job in terms of silencing the clack of the upstroke and the sound is just so much more pleasant now -- it actually makes the 'thock' sound so much more satisfying!
However, I have noticed that the key travel has been reduced slightly -- I read somewhere that the hypersphere rings are actually 0.5mm, which means the travel has been reduced from 4.0mm to 3.5mm. I didn't think I would notice it, but I actually do. The typing feel is still really amazing but somehow it just isn't as amazing as before. Has anyone else had the same experience?
I've heard conflicting things about the travel of the type-S. Could someone confirm if the Type-S indeed does actually have a longer travel distance, or perhaps a thinner silencing ring? Has anyone tried both and have any views to offer? Thanks in advance.
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My understanding is that the sliders on the Type-S and the standard HHKB Pro 2 keyboards are identical. Therefore, either the Type-S or a standard HHKB with my rings installed will have a reduction in travel of about 0.5 mm.
In contrast, factory-silenced RF87U keyboards had different sliders that compensated for the thickness of the rings that were used. These were the purple sliders (not to be confused with the purple sliders in the CM Novatouch).
I do not notice the 0.5 mm reduction in key travel, but some people do. Not to be self-serving, but I actually prefer my silenced and lubed HHKB over my Type-S. However, the difference might be in the lubing rather than in the silencing rings.
Another solution is to remap the RF keyboard to something close to the HHKB layout. I do this with all my keyboards using a Soarer converter, Hasu converter, or remapping software (I use Karabiner for the Mac and ATNsoft Key Manager for Windows). My linux computers share a keyboard and mouse with a Windows computer using Synergy software, so the remapping in Windows works for the linux boxes as well.
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Don't those dampening rings effect travel distance? Type-S on the other hand has longer stems to eliminate this.
snip...
I've heard conflicting things about the travel of the type-S. Could someone confirm if the Type-S indeed does actually have a longer travel distance, or perhaps a thinner silencing ring? Has anyone tried both and have any views to offer? Thanks in advance.
I am slightly confused on this as well. I believe there are two types of "silent" Topre switches.
My HHKB Type-S had black sliders, while my old RF 104UB-S had the purple sliders. So the purple sliders are longer to keep the 4mm travel - so does that mean that my HHKB Type-S with black sliders had slightly shorter travel (3.8MM?)?
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Don't those dampening rings effect travel distance? Type-S on the other hand has longer stems to eliminate this.
That's why i wouldn't silence a normal HHKB and rather pay the price for the Type S
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Please see below for a pic of a standard black Topre slider as found in the Type-S HHKB Pro 2, standard HHKB Pro 2, and standard RF87U keyboards compared with a purple slider from a factory-silenced RF87U keyboard:
[attach=1]
According to the DT wiki,
"Two Topre switch sliders. The purple one on the left is a silenced variant. Dampened sound is achieved by the foam and plastic o-ring which softens the upstroke. Note the longer stem/shorter legs on the purple switch. This is to counter the decreased travel that the o-ring would create. Not all silenced Topre switches have this modification, with some keyboards such as the HHKB Type-S advertised with shorter 3.8mm travel."
https://deskthority.net/wiki/File:Silent_Topre_-_Slider_Comparison.jpg
The wiki references the following source on GH:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45141.0
Note that the CM Novatouch also has purple sliders, but these are not the same as the purple RF sliders. The Novatouch sliders have a cruciform mount to accept Cherry mx keycaps (and cannot accept Topre keycaps).
The PFU site for the Type-S HHKB Pro 2 indicates that the key travel in the Type-S is 3.8 mm.
http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/hhkeyboard/type-s/
Some of the confusion apparently arises because the EK dealer site indicates a key travel of 4 mm for both the standard and Type-S HHKB Pro 2, but I believe this is in error.
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Thanks for the info, Hypersphere. (love them rings btw! am definitely thinking about ordering some more for my other boards.)
I just measured up one of your rings and can confirm that they are approx 0.5mm. I doubt that that the silencing rings in the Type-S are 0.2mm -- I don't think you can physically get rings that thin while retaining any sort of meaningful damping! So two possibilities -- either the sliders in the Type-S are around 0.3mm longer than those in the regular HHKB (i.e. 4.3mm?), or PFU is wrong about the 3.8mm travel. Something just doesn't add up.
I guess the only real to know is to do an A-B comparison between Type-S and regular HHKB! In any event, I am sure I will learn to get used to the *very* slight difference in travel.
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I haven't measured key travel in my Topre-switch boards with and without the rings installed.
One possibility that might explain, at least in part, the apparent discrepancy is that the thickness of the rings is usually measured in the uncompressed state. On the other hand, when measuring key travel, there presumably would be some degree of compression of the foam in the rings.
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Thanks for providing all that great silenced Topre info Hypersphere, that's very helpful. :thumb:
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As someone that uses both a RF and a HHKB at work...
You will get used to going back and forth with the RF...most of your mistakes are probably the backspace....
When I first got my HHKB and for probably more than a month, it was hard to go back and forth...it wasn't the arrow keys and it wasn't the CTRL (which I easily got used to going back and forth with), it was the backspace...It was so problematic I pretty much made up my mind to just get rid of the HHKB even though I really liked it...I figured I'd end up on random standard keyboards so I needed to use those...
Then it just clicked and going back and forth became very normal..just like driving on the right or left side of the street..if you do it enough you get used to switching back and forth..
My problem is with CTRL. CTRL on the HHKB is so brilliantly placed, I honestly don't know why more keyboards waste such a prominent location on the caps lock key. I also feel the key placement/size is slightly different between the two boards. Surprisingly backspace doesn't bother me at all.
There are a lot of things I like about the realforce. I love that it has a dedicated 10key, delete, print screen and arrow buttons, it's weight makes it feel like the build quality is better, it doesn't slide on a regular desk. I love my 104UB but that HHKB CTRL button is a thing of beauty.
Edit: I did a little research just now and discovered I can remap keys in the registry. WOW. This is going to make life so much simpler. Apart from the space savings of the HHKB I think this RF board may actually be better suited for work with the remap.
I'm confused...Your RF doesn't let you swap Capslock and CTRL? Mine does..
But as far as switching back and forth with that...for some reason it was very natural when using the HHKB to use the CTRL key...and when using a normal keyboard using the normal CTRL...but oddly enough when I got my RF (after my HHKB), I kept messing up the CTRL key even though it was in the same place as my HHKB....took me awhile to re-adjust but since mine are swappable by toggle, it wasn't a big deal..