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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: macguy80 on Sun, 18 December 2016, 20:40:18

Title: HHKB layout question -- BS vs Delete vs Del
Post by: macguy80 on Sun, 18 December 2016, 20:40:18

Watching lots of videos on the HHKB, much has been said of the DIP switch to swap Delete and Backspace. Yet in just about any typing video, when someone makes an error, they seem to hit the Delete key, which is located where the backslash key is on most keyboards — with no other modifiers held down. So does this mean that just about EVERYONE has flipped that particular DIP switch?

On what planet would it EVER make sense for Delete to be the default action of that key compared to Backspace? :)

And when that's sorted out, there's also Del on the front of the tilde/backtick key

Or are there differences in meaning that I'm not catching?

Thanks!

Title: Re: HHKB layout question -- BS vs Delete vs Del
Post by: Altis on Sun, 18 December 2016, 20:49:36

Yeah it's kind of funny...

The default action of the "Delete" key is a forward delete (the Delete that's in the nav cluster above the arrows). Function+"Delete" gives you the backspace.

That's the way almost everyone uses it since you're more likely correcting a typo that you just made. Strangely enough, when you have it set to Backspace, Function+Delete doesn't give you a forward delete.

Function+Tilde (just above the Delete) gives you the numpad forward delete, which I believe registers differently to the computer as it's from the numberpad rather than the nav cluster.

The HHKB layout is quite interesting, but it isn't how I would have made it, personally!

Title: Re: HHKB layout question -- BS vs Delete vs Del
Post by: Tactile on Sun, 18 December 2016, 21:41:10

The Sun keyboard which the HHKB layout was designed to emulate has a delete key in that spot, so there you go.

As to the dip switch to change it to backspace, I put one of mine back to the stock setting and quickly got used to using it as delete.

Title: Re: HHKB layout question -- BS vs Delete vs Del
Post by: davkol on Tue, 20 December 2016, 14:23:47

On a related note, if you've ever used Emacs, you might have noticed the nowadays-unusual meaning of Delete, i.e., DEL for Backspace.

Title: Re: HHKB layout question -- BS vs Delete vs Del
Post by: ideus on Tue, 20 December 2016, 14:31:52

This may help to understand the "logic" behind that position for delete on a HHKB, its dad/mom inherited it with one:


(http://i.imgur.com/Hke5oUu.jpg)

Title: Re: HHKB layout question -- BS vs Delete vs Del
Post by: macguy80 on Tue, 20 December 2016, 14:47:44

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies. To be clear, I wasn't questioning the location of the key at all— my sole question was why would one want a key that performs a forward delete in that position. Surely it can't be more commonly needed/used as backspace? Or am I wrong there?

Title: Re: HHKB layout question -- BS vs Delete vs Del
Post by: davkol on Tue, 20 December 2016, 15:41:55

See my reply. Delete used to mean "backspace" on some now-legacy systems.

Or more precisely, Ctrl-H was used for "backspace", and Backspace/Delete were used for "backspace" or "delete" inconsistently across different systems.

Title: Re: HHKB layout question -- BS vs Delete vs Del
Post by: macguy80 on Tue, 20 December 2016, 15:57:27

I thought that might be the case. Mac keyboards have used Delete to mean Backspace since 1986/87, and still do to this day :)

And then there's my c64 :)