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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: didjamatic on Wed, 27 January 2010, 14:55:08

Title: Ipad
Post by: didjamatic on Wed, 27 January 2010, 14:55:08
The Ipad was actually released in 2007
Title: Ipad
Post by: elbowglue on Wed, 27 January 2010, 15:40:23
Lol: Apple releases the Ifad.

http://lucky13linux.wordpress.com/2010/01/27/jobs-announces-ifad/
Title: Ipad
Post by: didjamatic on Wed, 27 January 2010, 16:37:12
Real iPad Video Here (http://www.apple.com/ipad/#video)
Title: Ipad
Post by: hyperlinked on Wed, 27 January 2010, 16:46:45
Quote from: didjamatic;154257
Real iPad Video Here (http://www.apple.com/ipad/#video)

The real iPad video is eye rollingly bad. It sounds like a bad attempt at geek poetry.

It's an interesting device though. We'll have to see what happens. They're specifically not aiming it to be the Tablet PC that keeps coming and failing to catch on over and over again. I can definitely say that I sometimes do prefer to do my reading on a handheld, but the speed and size of my BlackBerry makes that inconvenient.

Much has been said about how this gets squeezed between a mobile phone and a laptop PC where it gets to share a Snuggie with netbooks. That well may be and if it could replace my mobile phone, I'll be a lot more interested in it. It'd be an awkward phone to be sure, but I spend very little time making phone calls these days and the ones I do make are usually done over a bluetooth headset. Since most of my calls are done over a headset, my BlackBerry has already become a netbook for my common everyday use. Place my calls over something like an iPad wouldn't really be that different.
Title: Ipad
Post by: elservo on Wed, 27 January 2010, 17:12:23
It looks nifty-ish, but it still runs that damned iPhone OS.
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Wed, 27 January 2010, 17:35:55
I was amazed by the starting price until I heard "16GB", at which point it immediately became a freakin' rip off.

Storage has become one of the cheapest things that goes into a product like this, and yet THAT is what they skimp on? GTFO Apple.
Title: Ipad
Post by: hyperlinked on Wed, 27 January 2010, 18:01:43
Quote from: kishy;154269
Storage has become one of the cheapest things that goes into a product like this, and yet THAT is what they skimp on? GTFO Apple.

It's a solid state drive. The cheapest SSD on Newegg is going for $150 and there's a $200 difference between the 16Gb and 64Gb iPad model.
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Wed, 27 January 2010, 18:08:54
Quote from: hyperlinked;154273
It's a solid state drive. The cheapest SSD on Newegg is going for $150 and there's a $200 difference between the 16Gb and 64Gb iPad model.


Alright, that does change things a bit.

I was thinking it was using something less costly like your typical run of the mill flash memory as seen in SD cards and the like (which would have been acceptable, it's not like it's a super high speed device based on the lag I see in demo videos).
Title: Ipad
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Wed, 27 January 2010, 18:52:54
Common knowledge: Apple sucks! (except for the good old iPods and Mac OS X is an ok OS.)
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Wed, 27 January 2010, 19:12:38
As much as I agree with that assertion, I don't go around saying it without some sort of justification.

The people who agree don't need a justification, but the people who don't see it as senseless babble if you neglect to include it.
Title: Ipad
Post by: zwmalone on Wed, 27 January 2010, 19:16:18
Congrats, you managed to troll both iPad threads... yes, you may think apple sucks, but take it elsewhere instead of here, where it contributes nothing to the discussion.
Title: Ipad
Post by: devilcm3 on Wed, 27 January 2010, 20:17:38
looks like this device doesnt make that much hype as iPhone

i still cant think of what market does apple wants to target....sexy secretary?
Title: Ipad
Post by: elservo on Wed, 27 January 2010, 20:20:50
Apple wants to target ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE.  It's an awesome philosophy, and it's working.  

I just want a Macbook Pro.  ****, I'd even take a Macbook at this point.
Title: Ipad
Post by: didjamatic on Wed, 27 January 2010, 20:32:54
Quote from: hyperlinked;154273
It's a solid state drive. The cheapest SSD on Newegg is going for $150 and there's a $200 difference between the 16Gb and 64Gb iPad model.


I believe the storage in the ipad is more like a SD flash card than a SSD.  The dimensions alone indicate that.
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Wed, 27 January 2010, 20:41:36
Quote from: didjamatic;154308
I believe the storage in the ipad is more like a SD flash card than a SSD.  The dimensions alone indicate that.


...so we're back to a ridiculous price given the storage capacity and type.
Title: Ipad
Post by: Xuan on Wed, 27 January 2010, 22:22:49
Quote from: zwmalone;154294
Congrats, you managed to troll both iPad threads... yes, you may think apple sucks, but take it elsewhere instead of here, where it contributes nothing to the discussion.


Hey, I was enjoining it. Please don't stop the trolling.
Title: Ipad
Post by: devilcm3 on Wed, 27 January 2010, 22:31:40
Quote from: kishy;154309
...so we're back to a ridiculous price given the storage capacity and type.


i think it is possible to integrate the flash chip into the motherboard

anyway...i found his brother in law
(http://www.viewsonic.com.sg/products/photoframe/images/index_main2.jpg)


maybe apple should change their iPad into yet another unbelievable price : expensive
Title: Ipad
Post by: hyperlinked on Wed, 27 January 2010, 23:01:15
Quote from: kishy;154309
...so we're back to a ridiculous price given the storage capacity and type.


Are we? How much does a 64Gb Flash drive cost? And BTW, what's the difference between a SSD and flash memory?
Title: Ipad
Post by: ricercar on Wed, 27 January 2010, 23:48:33
Quote from: hyperlinked;154325
what's the difference between a SSD and flash memory?

Speed. Raw blazing speed.

Actually it's all Flash RAM. (No one makes SSDs with SRAM or DRAM any more. While magnitudes faster, SSDs from SRAM/DRAMs forget when you remove the power, and Flash RAMs remember without power.) The difference between various Flash RAMs is mostly access time, but there's also the issue whether a single cell holds 8 bits (cheap) or one bit (dependable).

As far as the iSteve goes, the reason Apple will be more successful than decade-old Windows tablets is based solely on (1) software interface (2) marketing. While I wholeheartedly admire Jobs' decision to leave the unconscionably buggy Macromedia Flash out of the iPhone OS, yet without Flash there's nothing the iSteve does that i haven't been doing on my WindowsCE tablets for which I paid 1/10th of the iSteve's price.
Title: Ipad
Post by: didjamatic on Wed, 27 January 2010, 23:53:26
I could be mistaken but I don't believe SSD drives could fit inside the thin iPad.  It does use flash memory which could mean chips soldered directly on the board or in some kind of module.  I think their cost on storage is minimal.

Apple uses storage capacity as a primary reason for upgrading.  The leaked iphone prototypes had 80GB of storage, but the final was 4/8GB.  The cost to create a 16GB vs an 8GB is very minimal, but they don't do it so it will coax users to upgrade in a year or two when the larger capacity devices are released.

IF they were only interested in saving money, they'd have minimal onboard memory and a SD card slot in the iphone like Android phones do, which would allow the user to upgrade storage themselves, but Apple doesn't like this, they like selling you another complete device.   And so it is with the iPad... no memory card slot.  And that is ridiculous no-holds-barred screwing the user into buying a new device to add capacity.

Steve Jobs' yogi guru would force choke him if he had the realization that he will have to buy a new device to increase mp3 mantra chanting capacity on his iPad.
Title: Ipad
Post by: ricercar on Thu, 28 January 2010, 00:01:44
Apple is a hardware company. It's their core business model to make today's product obsolete (if only in your mind) as soon as the next refresh comes out. 100% of Apple's software model is based on generating more hardware sales.
Title: Ipad
Post by: Oqsy on Thu, 28 January 2010, 00:38:03
Quote from: ricercar;154330
100% of Apple's software model is based on generating more hardware sales.


This.
Title: Ipad
Post by: Chao on Thu, 28 January 2010, 04:18:52
After reading the reviews by a handful of sites, and seeing video of some who got to try it out, my only real thought on the subject:
If Ars Technica, of all places, gives an Apple product a lukewarm-to-cold review, that simply can't bode well for the product in question.
Title: Ipad
Post by: Mercen_505 on Thu, 28 January 2010, 06:37:53
I'm honestly not seeing the market for this.
Title: Ipad
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Thu, 28 January 2010, 06:47:50
Quote from: ricercar;154330
100% of Apple's software model is based on generating more hardware sales.


And vice versa.
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 28 January 2010, 07:15:02
Gizmodo was even lukewarm-to-cold about it.  Freaking Gizmodo.  Even the non-techies on NPR were pretty "meh."  They thought the coolest thing about the annoucement was the eBook availabilty from iTunes.
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Thu, 28 January 2010, 08:09:12
It's not getting extreme love because it's lame...truly lame.

It would make more sense to buy a couple-year-old used tablet laptop than it does to buy one of these. You get more storage, more processing power, broader software compatibility, and just since it's been brought up...usually an SD card reader too.

It's a neat product and I bet it'll give the Kindle some pretty strong competition as far as eBook readers go, but if they're trying to suggest it's any more than that, that's why people are disappointed.
Title: Ipad
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Thu, 28 January 2010, 08:26:18
I have no doubt that the iPad can be a successful product. On a plane, this product can be very nice to have especially if it's for a 12-hour flight. However, I don't agree with some of things Phil Schiller said:

"The best e-mail experience"? "The best movie watching experience"?

Maybe I'm missing something here? How can this slate be more comfortable for writing e-mails? First, the virtual keyboard takes up a huge portion of the screen real estate. If you are replying to a list of question from someone's e-mail, this means constant scrolling. And most importantly, how can typing on a glass be more comfortable than typing on a real keyboard, especially a good mechanical one? Don't get me wrong, I love some of Apple's products, but sometimes they exaggerate how good their products are.
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 28 January 2010, 08:40:22
Quote from: patrickgeekhack;154358

"The best e-mail experience"? "The best movie watching experience"?

...And good luck doing both of those things at the same time.
Title: Ipad
Post by: Mercen_505 on Thu, 28 January 2010, 08:42:22
Let's look at the various angles and see how things stack up:


- As a business/work machine

You can bluetooth or use the external port to attach a keyboard, but you'll have to switch between typing and touching to interact with the screen. This will get old (and tiresome) quickly. Traditional laptops have the keyboard and mouse within easy reach so the transition is smooth. This... not so much. Also, as I understand it, this does not support multitasking. If that's true, then that effectively torpedoes the productivity aspect of this tablet.


- As a music player

You'll want to use headphones with it, but it'll be cumbersome to place next to you while working, or anything else for that matter. The iPod works because of its unobtrusive form factor. It's a "go anywhere" type device, unlike the iPad.


- As an Ebook reader

Apple might be on to something. E-ink is very easy on the eyes, but is currently only monochrome and has a hideously low refresh rate. LCD screens cause significantly more eye strain, and are harder to use outside where ambient light is strong, but have color support and good refresh rates. Comic book fans might like this.


- As a media player (other than music)

Good idea, but gimping the storage capacity is a bad idea. 16-64 gigs of video goes bye bye in a hurry, and you'll be paying a $200 adder to get to 64. This could work for watching a few episodes here and there, or SD streaming content, but it won't replace the need for a good HTPC.


- As a gaming device

Virtual buttons = fail. Good control schemes are hard to find in iPhone games, and this will carry over to the iPad.


- Casual net browsing

This is probably the best application of the device. The touchscreen should make the experience pretty smooth. The lack of Flash support out of the box is gonna suck on occasion.
Title: Ipad
Post by: devilcm3 on Thu, 28 January 2010, 08:49:57
Quote from: patrickgeekhack;154358
but sometimes they exaggerate how good their products are.


its what they're good at
Title: Ipad
Post by: didjamatic on Thu, 28 January 2010, 09:04:27
I just saw the latest Kindle yesterday and the screen is amazing, I think it's actually better than a book to read.  I don't know that the ipad will be as good as it will for reading.  That screen tech is patented.  If it is, then the device has some merit, if not, it's second or worse in class in every area I can think of, other than the "Ooooh look at me I have the latest fruity device and am superior to you" area.

LOVE my iphone, Love my ipod (wish iphone had same storage capacity as my ipod) but this ipad doesn't do anything well enough for me to purchase it.  I will stick to a PC at home, Laptop at work and Iphone in my pocket.

It's a tablet lacking most of the great qualities of a tablet PC.
Not an Ipod replacement
Not an Iphone replacement
Not a computer replacement
Not a GPS replacement
Not a gaming system replacement
Maybe a kindle replacement

It's just an extra device and I don't need another device, I would rather consolidate what I already have.
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 28 January 2010, 09:06:09
Quote from: didjamatic;154367
LOVE my iphone, Love my ipod (wish iphone had same storage capacity as my ipod) but this ipad doesn't do anything well enough for me to purchase it. I will stick to a PC at home, Laptop at work and Iphone in my pocket.
 
It's a tablet lacking most of the great qualities of a tablet PC.
Not an Ipod replacement
Not an Iphone replacement
Not a computer replacement
Not a GPS replacement
Not a gaming system replacement
Maybe a kindle replacement
 
It's just an extra device and I don't need another device, I would rather consolidate what I already have.

Well said.
Title: Ipad
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Thu, 28 January 2010, 09:58:14
Quote from: didjamatic;154367
I just saw the latest Kindle yesterday and the screen is amazing, I think it's actually better than a book to read.  


Personally (just my opinion), I much prefer reading a printed book than an electronic book. If I had a choice, I would prefer the printed version, but a better option would be to have both.

Why:
- Personal taste
- I can lend my book to someone and start reading another one.
- I don't have to worry about battery life.
- Some books if well preserved can be passed on to generation and generations.
Title: Ipad
Post by: elbowglue on Thu, 28 January 2010, 10:05:37
I love how apple never allows anyone to have replacable batteries, expandable memory, etc.  

I think the whole concept behind this Ipad thing was they figured they could sell books on the itunes store and get into the bookselling e-reader market.  

Boo. Hiss.
Title: Ipad
Post by: cmr on Thu, 28 January 2010, 10:27:42
(http://i.imgur.com/wApCi.png)
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Thu, 28 January 2010, 10:33:05
...while looking at a certain Esc key replacement?
Title: Ipad
Post by: hyperlinked on Thu, 28 January 2010, 10:41:11
Quote from: ricercar;154328
As far as the iSteve goes, the reason Apple will be more successful than decade-old Windows tablets is based solely on (1) software interface (2) marketing.
And with the latter comes developers. That's the only reason I find this device interesting. If Steve Jobs can convince developers that he can drum up a market for their efforts and they can already reuse knowledge they have from building iPhone apps, then we might start seeing some touch screen apps that are different from what we're used to. It's not often that you both see a device that doesn't quite belong to any existing family yet already has a built in base of developers. In the end, new hardware is still just hardware, but new hardware times developers is the interesting equation.

As a device, there's not a whole lot about it that makes me want to buy one. Like other people have said, I don't know what I'd do with another device. But I also know that I had no interest in the iPhone until I started seeing all these interesting apps for it and true a lot of the apps weren't necessarily ground breaking in terms of raw feature sets, they were truly ground breaking in the number of people who were using them. I still don't own or use an iPhone or iPod Touch, but I can better understand why some people are so enamored of them now.

The perception that it's not a computer, yet not a phone, and yet not an anything replacement is precisely the reason why I think it's interesting. I'm not saying I'm amazed, but just intrigued. That it doesn't fit in any known classification means that some creative developer may come up with something truly novel or it could bomb spectacularly and make the MacBookAir look like a stroke of genius in comparison. It could be the next iPod or it could be the next Segway.

I'm not planning on buying one, but I am planning on enjoying the show to see what a small army of developers will do now that they have a bigger iPhone to design against. I can put up with the marketing and spin if it means that we'll have a chance to see what a critial mass of users can do for something that for all intents and purposes has come and gone several times before.
Title: Ipad
Post by: ricercar on Thu, 28 January 2010, 18:16:44
the only significant part of the iSteve announcement was that Apple makes its own CPU. Nothing else is new, not concept, implementation, hype. By making their own CPU, Apple establishes that they own the iSteve market, top to bottom, and no other company can match this. John Gruber gets this, saying "They’re not getting into the CPU business for kicks, they’re getting into it to kick ass. .... They’re Microsoft and Intel rolled into one when it comes to mobile computing. (http://daringfireball.net/2010/01/ipad_big_picture)"
Title: Ipad
Post by: elservo on Thu, 28 January 2010, 23:38:47
E-ink, like in the Kindle, is incredible.  Very easy on the eyes.  I prefer my Kindle over books because I don't have to shift while I read at night.  I know this sounds odd but as soon as I get comfortable reading a page I have to flip the page, which makes me have to move my booklight.  If I'm reading a giant hardcover, as I'm known to do, my hands cramp up from holding the monstrosity.  Now it's all in a nice little device that I can hold comfortably until I pass out.  

I'm reading Moby **** on the kindle right now, which is almost like taking six valium and washing them down with a couple beers.  Didn't have to pay for that one because it's on feedbooks, which has a Kindle App, so every time I open that book up I feel like I've finally won in life.  

Also, the Kindle keyboard is made of a hybrid Cherry, Buckling Spring, and Topre switch scheme, and I caught my Kindle making me lunch the other day.
Title: Ipad
Post by: exia on Thu, 28 January 2010, 23:44:07
I would wait and see what the app store can bring to this device. It will be what makes or breaks it.

As for me, as far as reading on a screen goes I would much rather do it on the Kindle DX. IPS screen or not, it cannot beat eink.
Title: Ipad
Post by: kode on Fri, 29 January 2010, 05:21:29
Quote from: ricercar;154454
the only significant part of the iSteve announcement was that Apple makes its own CPU. Nothing else is new, not concept, implementation, hype. By making their own CPU, Apple establishes that they own the iSteve market, top to bottom, and no other company can match this. John Gruber gets this, saying "They’re not getting into the CPU business for kicks, they’re getting into it to kick ass. .... They’re Microsoft and Intel rolled into one when it comes to mobile computing. (http://daringfireball.net/2010/01/ipad_big_picture)"


They were pretty heavily involved with Motorola back when they used the M68k too, though. The A4 is probably based on the ARM Cortex-A9, and that's just about the only thing that makes me interested in their slate. Not interested enough to consider getting one, though, because I'm not a real big fan of:
1. The slate concept
2. Not being able to run whatever I want on a piece of computerish hardware.
3. iFruit hype

If a decently priced ARM based netbook comes around, sporting a keyboard with a decent layout and good battery capacity, I'll get one of those instead.
Title: Ipad
Post by: didjamatic on Fri, 29 January 2010, 10:56:07
From Adobe Blog:
"Adobe's been trying to get Flash on the iPhone with zero success since Steve Jobs first held the thing in the air in 2007, and it looks like the tension is only going to grow as the iPhone OS moves onto the iPad. We noticed that the iPad doesn't have Flash support almost immediately when Jobs was demoing the browser"
"It looks like Apple is continuing to impose restrictions on their devices that limit both content publishers and consumers. Unlike many other ebook readers using the ePub file format, consumers will not be able to access ePub content with Apple's DRM technology on devices made by other manufacturers. And without Flash support, iPad users will not be able to access the full range of web content, including over 70% of games and 75% of video on the web.
If I want to use the iPad to connect to Disney, Hulu, Miniclip, Farmville, ESPN, Kongregate, or JibJab -- not to mention the millions of other sites on the web -- I'll be out of luck."
Title: More iPad dark humor
Post by: sethstorm on Fri, 29 January 2010, 11:08:39
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7600&stc=1&d=1264784847)

...and if you thought the other ones were bad, here's this.
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Fri, 29 January 2010, 11:18:06
Supposedly HTML5 is phasing out the need for flash, and it is not too well known about yet, so I thought I'd throw it in here. Supposedly the iPad will do HTML5 just fine.

That said, I think I've explained my "segmenting of reality" philosophy where I categorize things and don't blend categories - for example, TV is for video and computer is for interactivity - so naturally I dislike that HTML, essentially a text display language (whereas CSS is the layout and appearance language), is going to shift towards multimedia...
Title: Ipad
Post by: kode on Fri, 29 January 2010, 13:58:02
HTML5 is good for video and audio, indeed. For flash games, not so much.
Title: Ipad
Post by: ricercar on Fri, 29 January 2010, 14:39:48
The fastest way to crash a stable machine is to install Flash.
Title: more like apple-approved search space
Post by: onowak on Fri, 29 January 2010, 14:41:40
if the ipad sells like hotcakes, it will implicitly splinter the search space into "apple-approved" sites and "the rest".

flash-based sites will have to make the choice to either move to HTML 5 for their multi-media presentation, or "opt-out"  on page-views/hits from the ipad. this wasnt such a bug deal when the platform was the iphone - but it will be if the ipad becomes a viable (and popular) web browsing platform.

this may be their part of their plan....

-0.
Title: Ipad
Post by: onowak on Fri, 29 January 2010, 14:45:58
and btw, ricercar - the fastest way to crash with flash is by writing bad software. i have seen (and worked on) very stable multi-media flash apps. as with all software - the weakest link is the programmer - not the platform.

blame the programmer - not the tool, yes? when a c++ app segfaults - do you blame c++, , stroustrup, or the programmer who didnt properly clean up their pointers?
-0.
Title: Ipad
Post by: ricercar on Fri, 29 January 2010, 15:19:24
Quote from: onowak;154615
blame the programmer - not the tool, yes? when a c++ app segfaults - do you blame c++, , stroustrup, or the programmer who didnt properly clean up their pointers?-0.

Am I blaming Flash because I won't install it?  Flash has a smaller learning curve than C++. What follows is we have more incompetent programmers distributing inferior 'wares in Flash than we have incompetent programmers distributing inferior 'wares in C++. Given the same OS, same hardware, same configuration, the system with Flash installed (not even running) will crash more often than the system without Flash. Flash is an inferior tool.

I agree with you, it is the inferior workman who blames his tools. Yet as a superior workman I'll avoid problems by avoiding inferior tools. My screwdrivers don't break because I buy Craftsman, for example, instead of the supermarket Chinese 'drivers. Craftsman is competent people making superior tools. Made-in-China is (most likely) less competent workers making inferior tools. Am I blaming a tool if I won't buy it? Nah.
Title: Ipad
Post by: msiegel on Fri, 29 January 2010, 15:26:34
Quote from: onowak;154612
this may be their part of their plan...


considering that steve carefully scripts and rehearses product launch presentations, i believe showing off the missing plugin, on two different websites, was intentional.
Title: Ipad
Post by: didjamatic on Fri, 29 January 2010, 15:28:24
Supporting flash would allow people to easily write apps/games for the ipad/ipod/iphone that iSteve won't get paid for.
Title: Ipad
Post by: ricercar on Fri, 29 January 2010, 15:30:03
Quote from: msiegel;154632
showing off the missing plugin, on two different websites, was intentional.


100%
Title: Ipad
Post by: onowak on Fri, 29 January 2010, 15:35:54
ricercar,

yes, there are a lot of flash designers "writing" bad flash software. i totally agree. it doesnt help things that adobe confuses the issue with Flash 5, Flex Builder, and FlashBuilder development playtforms. but the language and the platform is great for cross-platform, multimedia browser apps. it really has a lot going for it in spite of adobe.

but come on: to say actionscript 3 is "inferior" to c++? LOL. they are totally different tools! that sounds like ignorance. c++ is great. i love it too. but i wouldnt want to dev a rich internet app with it.

but i suppose if all you have is a hammer in your toolbox - everything looks like a nail, yes?

lmao.

-0.
Title: Ipad
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 29 January 2010, 15:49:03
Quote from: sethstorm;154566
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7600&stc=1&d=1264784847)


...and if you thought the other ones were bad, here's this.

You sir, are my hero.

As for all this stuff of no flash, and only being able to run one app at a time - product line rationalization folks...
Title: Ipad
Post by: Superfluous Parentheses on Fri, 29 January 2010, 16:36:05
Quote from: onowak;154637
but come on: to say actionscript 3 is "inferior" to c++? LOL. they are totally different tools! that sounds like ignorance. c++ is great. i love it too. but i wouldnt want to dev a rich internet app with it.

but i suppose if all you have is a hammer in your toolbox - everything looks like a nail, yes?

The problem with flash is not AS3. AS3 is OK; it looks even more disgusting than ecma 262 3rd edition, but I know of no parts that can't be made to work safely and relatively efficiently. The problem at the moment is twofold:

1. Some programmers don't know how to use the language/platform well.
2. There's a lot of room yet for the common flash players/plugins to get more efficient and stable. IMHO the move to class-based inheritance based on the 4th edition previews might have delayed real improvements not just in flash but also in common ecmascript VMs in browsers.
Title: Ipad
Post by: sethstorm on Fri, 29 January 2010, 16:46:59
Quote from: ch_123;154641
You sir, are my hero.

As for all this stuff of no flash, and only being able to run one app at a time - product line rationalization folks...


...and most likely, the kid is pictured in that photo.


Apparently it's Apple's MO to say "...you're not the target audience, so STFU." when hearing complaints about missing features(that end up there anyway).

My conclusion: Rip out the screen down to the panel interfaces and sell the remaining bits.  Then be happy with your new IPS touchscreen as it serves a purpose not approved of by Steve.
Title: Ipad
Post by: hyperlinked on Fri, 29 January 2010, 17:06:41
Quote from: didjamatic;154634
Supporting flash would allow people to easily write apps/games for the ipad/ipod/iphone that iSteve won't get paid for.


Sort of... one of the touted features of Flash CS5 is that you can compile iPhone apps in AS3.
http://cs5.org/?p=359

I don't think they're making a killing off the of App store or iTunes. As ricer pointed out, they want to sell hardware. It makes no sense for them to allow for free apps if they're trying to hit the jackpot by selling Apps... not that they aren't making plenty of dough as it is.
Title: Ipad
Post by: onowak on Fri, 29 January 2010, 17:56:26
if you look at a 3month history of adobe's stock - you'll see a nice cliff around the time of the ipad announcement, basically erasing the gains of the last 90 days.

-0.
Title: Ipad
Post by: elbowglue on Fri, 29 January 2010, 18:09:25
That is funny ****. Lol!
Title: Ipad
Post by: elservo on Fri, 29 January 2010, 18:18:19
I'm glad that this thing is getting hated.  Hopefully this ends up failing and Apple goes back to making OSX their top priority.  That won't happen, but it certainly would be nice if it did.
Title: Ipad
Post by: msiegel on Fri, 29 January 2010, 18:55:28
come on elservo, join the drm ruled world of the future
;)
Title: Ipad
Post by: msiegel on Fri, 29 January 2010, 20:23:25
adobe's view on ipad's lack of flash (http://theflashblog.com/?p=1703)
Title: Ipad
Post by: SCTony on Sat, 30 January 2010, 23:03:16
Lol from The Inquirer- Ipad is a car without a motor (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/opinion/1589158/apple-goes)
Title: Ipad
Post by: msiegel on Sat, 30 January 2010, 23:27:13
jobs *is* a genius...

and i can only hope the ipad succeeds -- both for apple's sake, and because it will spur competition, opening the floodgates of the market for linux based alternatives :)
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Sat, 30 January 2010, 23:46:31
Oh I really hope you're just playing devil's advocate here...
Title: Ipad
Post by: msiegel on Sat, 30 January 2010, 23:57:37
agreed.

apple positioned itself to take the step for this new platform, and i say more power to them :)
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Sun, 31 January 2010, 00:08:12
I think it's a bit more like this:

Apple had the potential to do something good and intentionally crippled the product so much that they've shot themselves in their own stupid feet (something they're good at and have done numerous times in the past, one example of which being the Mac TV I already presented, another being the iPod itself, another being their original tablet flop...and there are more).

Multitasking, Flash, I/O, software compatibility, storage capacity...everything that makes portable computing (in any capacity) feasible, enjoyable and productive has been stripped from the thing.
Title: Ipad
Post by: hyperlinked on Sun, 31 January 2010, 01:01:25
Quote from: kishy;154952
I think it's a bit more like this:

Apple had the potential to do something good and intentionally crippled the product so much that they've shot themselves in their own stupid feet ...

Actually I think it's actually more like this: Different people have different experiences and competencies. They see things you miss and miss things you see. It's ok if they have a different opinion of something than you do. You don't have to keep ramming it back at them when they don't completely agree with you on a subjective matter.

The iPad is obviously not designed to make Kishy happy and they're never going to make Kishy happy even when they send shock waves through the niche table industry by opening the pricing of the iPad at $499 because I have a feeling that had they priced it at $4.99, Kishy would still find reason to say it sucks.

You have to allow that the iPad brings the potential for innovation. Things that are innovative are not always smashing successes and they're not even always good products. Something can suck and be innovative at the same time. Sometimes the best thing a new product can do is try something different and fail spectacularly, but leave behind lessons and strategies that the eventual victors will utilize to succeed. That's why some of us can be fans of innovation without being total fans of the actual product that contains an innovation.

I can guarantee you there are a lot of people smarter than you and me combined who think the iPad is ridiculous and are eagerly following it nonetheless.
Title: Ipad
Post by: ak_nala on Sun, 31 January 2010, 06:54:10
The iPad is still two months away from shipping, but there are already repercussions. (http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodget-book-wars-amazon-retaliates-against-publisher-over-ebook-pricing-pulls-books-from-shelves-2010-1) Let the eBook wars begin.
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Sun, 31 January 2010, 09:13:05
Quote from: hyperlinked;154959
Actually I think it's actually more like this: Different people have different experiences and competencies. They see things you miss and miss things you see. It's ok if they have a different opinion of something than you do. You don't have to keep ramming it back at them when they don't completely agree with you on a subjective matter.

The iPad is obviously not designed to make Kishy happy and they're never going to make Kishy happy even when they send shock waves through the niche table industry by opening the pricing of the iPad at $499 because I have a feeling that had they priced it at $4.99, Kishy would still find reason to say it sucks.

You have to allow that the iPad brings the potential for innovation. Things that are innovative are not always smashing successes and they're not even always good products. Something can suck and be innovative at the same time. Sometimes the best thing a new product can do is try something different and fail spectacularly, but leave behind lessons and strategies that the eventual victors will utilize to succeed. That's why some of us can be fans of innovation without being total fans of the actual product that contains an innovation.

I can guarantee you there are a lot of people smarter than you and me combined who think the iPad is ridiculous and are eagerly following it nonetheless.

Very true, I do see what you're saying. However from my perspective it just seems crippled. Perhaps you're right and they do it to stimulate the industry's innovation engine, though in my eyes it needs nothing of the sort. What we need is the quality and reliability of what already exists to be improved, not new stuff to be created without need or use.

And yes, you're right, I'd have beef with it even at $4.99. My view is a crippled product is a crippled product regardless of price. Difference is I'd buy one at 4.99 so I could take it apart and see what could be repurposed into more worthy projects (at least projects that I view as more worthy, again since this is subjective).

FWIW, if it had the stuff it's lacking that I listed above (at the same price as current for the 16GB), I'd be saying how great it is and what an excellent price it is.
Title: Ipad
Post by: ricercar on Sun, 31 January 2010, 11:10:51
Quote from: kishy;154952
Multitasking, Flash, I/O, software compatibility, storage capacity...everything that makes portable computing (in any capacity) feasible, enjoyable and productive has been stripped from the thing.

1999 vintage VADEM Clio tablet running Windows CE
You forgot

(http://www.smartphonemag.com/_archives/Jan00/images/Vadem_Clio_group.jpg)

I use it for email, surfing

Flash? Who needs Flash?

$25 used - $119 new on eBay (http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=vadem+clio&_sacat=See-All-Categories).
~$200 all decked out with WiFi and CF, same as an 8 GB iPod touch but has 8" screen

Why pay more?
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Sun, 31 January 2010, 11:19:24
ricercar, yes, I did forget a couple things, and I definitely agree with what you listed.

From what you've said compared to the known capabilities of the iPad, the $25 10-11 year old Clio stomps it.

Plus, IMO, it looks better too.
Title: Ipad
Post by: exia on Sun, 31 January 2010, 12:21:57
i might consider getting this as a netbook replacement and ebook reader.

i am considering the kindle dx because it has eink but the technology is moving ahead at a snail's pace, the ipad might be a good inbetween device till things mature.
Title: Ipad
Post by: Ulysses31 on Sun, 31 January 2010, 12:37:56
I don't think a device that is already lagging behind the competition can spur innovation.  There are already products ready to be released to manufacturing that will make this look like the joke that it is.  They haven't been released yet because the industry players were obviously taking a "wait and see" approach to size up the competition before releasing their own products.  There are also plenty of high-speed full-colour e-paper technologies already commercially available, which don't have the flaw of being hard to read in bright light like I suspect the Ipad would be (glossy screen is assumed).  Mirasol corporation in particular has an array of impressive products that are truly innovative and worth some attention.

http://www.epapercentral.com/spotlight-on-mirasol-qualcomms-full-color-epaper.htm

The CPU they're using BTW isn't designed by Apple.  It's an ARM design, same as in about 7 other CPUs already on the market for a similar purpose.  It's produced by P.A. Semi which Apple acquired so as to eliminate the possibility of any future "jail-breaking" of their devices, by having more control over what the CPU can run.
Title: Ipad
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 31 January 2010, 12:47:58
Chinese innovation? You mean they'll get better at copying stuff?
Title: Ipad
Post by: exia on Sun, 31 January 2010, 13:21:22
with $499, one can buy 3 X 24" LCDs or one measly ipad. decisions decisions....
Title: Ipad
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 31 January 2010, 13:59:20
Quote from: ricercar;155066
1999 vintage VADEM Clio tablet


neat keyboard :D

(http://208.36.232.209/eBay2/DSC00586.JPG)
Title: Ipad
Post by: ricercar on Sun, 31 January 2010, 14:24:30
Yah, that keyboard is unique. Scissors over individually-cut, swiftly-mobile rubber domes the same color as my office floor. :-( I've been planning a Cherry hack, but so far nothing works that's as portable and durable as the built-in. The display support/hinges are TOUGH, made of aluminum. They inspire carrying at fast speeds with much bumping and sliding at the destination.

Absolutely no one has mentioned the (lack of) screen protection on the iSteve. I can't be the only person to think it's going to be scratched up regularly, its mass lending to impact with far more force than an iPod Touch gets. Aftermarket case makers will make zillions of dollars, especially if there are 2-5 iSteve generations with the same form factor.
Title: Ipad
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 31 January 2010, 14:54:12
Quote from: webwit;155099
Yeah I think they are moving ahead in all territories including innovation.. fast!


then let us look forward to our lower cost (yet somewhat toxic) ChyPads
;)
Title: Ipad
Post by: ricercar on Sun, 31 January 2010, 14:59:13
Quote from: exia;155100
with $499, one can buy 3 X 24" LCDs or one measly ipad. decisions decisions....

With three 24" displays you still need to buy a portable computer with pair of graphics cards to get on the net. That's nowhere near as easy to lug around as an iSteve, and this would double the price.

EDIT:
The definitive review: iPad versus Etch-a-Sketch (http://www.ngonlinenews.com/news/apple-ipad-review/)!
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Sun, 31 January 2010, 19:17:10
Shall we coin this "iDundancy"?
Title: Ipad
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 31 January 2010, 20:47:21
i suspect we've fallen into some kind of psychological trap...

i've said the name enough times that it's devoid of any other connotations... and visually compared the thing to iphone enough, to never expect to make phone calls on it...

next it will start seeming essential somehow, and really low cost
XD
Title: Ipad
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 31 January 2010, 21:22:31
at last, it's iPad's target customer!



XD
Title: Ipad
Post by: ricercar on Mon, 01 February 2010, 07:58:24
Pshaw. We are large. We contain multitudes.
Title: Ipad
Post by: D-EJ915 on Mon, 01 February 2010, 12:20:43
seeing osaka and hearing that voice made me cringe
Title: Ipad
Post by: ricercar on Mon, 01 February 2010, 14:07:50
Quote from: ripster;155344
I'm waiting for the video ads.

First Ad :

> type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340">[/youtube]

ripster and colbert have the same daughter?
Title: Ipad
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Mon, 01 February 2010, 17:56:25
I cannot see your picture
Title: Ipad
Post by: ricercar on Mon, 01 February 2010, 17:59:07
That video is great Great great phenominal great good amazing.
Title: Ipad
Post by: exia on Mon, 01 February 2010, 18:03:10
will there be an education discount for the ipad?
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Mon, 01 February 2010, 18:08:53
Quote from: exia;155470
will there be an education discount for the ipad?

[strike]This implies there's an educational benefit to using the device...[/strike]

Edit: This implies there's any benefit at all to using the device.
Title: Ipad
Post by: Oqsy on Tue, 02 February 2010, 16:19:36
Quote from: kishy;155473
This implies there's a[sic] benefit to using the device...


there, fixed that for you.
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Tue, 02 February 2010, 17:28:13
Quote from: Oqsy;155719
there, fixed that for you.


Geez, how'd I miss that...you're absolutely right. Thanks!
Title: Ipad
Post by: ricercar on Tue, 02 February 2010, 18:04:04
Only one benefit?
Title: Ipad
Post by: jaybee on Tue, 02 February 2010, 18:28:45
Years ago, I kept a fish tank, and on a message board for aquarium enthusiasts I read a post ripping Brita water filters and similar products. While conceding that they worked, his point was that only a fool would pay for them when you could put a 10-gallon tank under your sink, rig up the plumbing and buy standard filtering charcoal (as used in aquariums) much more cheaply to accomplish the same thing.

Hard to say why some of this thread reminds me of that, but for some reason, it does.
Title: Ipad
Post by: msiegel on Tue, 02 February 2010, 18:47:46
Quote from: jaybee;155750
fish tank


unlike the original mac, ipad is too thin to make a good aquarium

/troll ;)
Title: Ipad
Post by: msiegel on Tue, 02 February 2010, 20:07:02
rolling stones? :)

heck yeah

Title: Ipad
Post by: msiegel on Tue, 02 February 2010, 21:17:07
i thought it was a good article :)
Title: Ipad
Post by: sethstorm on Tue, 02 February 2010, 21:46:50
Quote from: ripster;155095
In three years as long as the Chinese keep buying US Treasury bonds I'm happy.  If they stop no American will be able to afford any gadgets.


They just won't be able to afford non-US gadgets.  No problem here, as it'd put Unicomp in a very good position.

Anything that kills off Chinese junk/knockoffs is good in my book.  They don't innovate outside of ways to kill undesirables (and separate them from their organs).   That and making excuses for what they do.
Title: Ipad
Post by: msiegel on Tue, 02 February 2010, 23:12:59
Quote from: sethstorm;155793
it'd put Unicomp in a very good position


hmm... a made in kentucky unicomp netbook with genuine buckling spring keyboard...
Title: Ipad
Post by: HaaTa on Wed, 03 February 2010, 00:30:05
Buckling Spring Netbook...

It'd be an interesting mod project. Dunno how I'd fit in enough keys though without building my own keyboard from scratch.

I have a spare EeePC 701 back in Canada if people have ideas (and I find some spare time).
Title: Ipad
Post by: Rajagra on Wed, 03 February 2010, 01:45:33
Quote from: onowak;154615
when a c++ app segfaults - do you blame c++


I would.

No, I'm not a professional programmer, but I don't understand why in this day and age any environment (be it the OS, a sandbox, a compiled program, or whatever) shouldn't have enough error checking built in to stop uncontrolled crashes from happening.

For how long have we had hackers/virus writers exploit buffer overruns and the like to cause mischief? Why do we still put up with this nonsense?

========================
Back on topic...




Hopefully Apple will remember to put the missing 'i' back in the logo before final release.

We need to value and protect that "general purpose computing device" concept. Digital rights management is already eroding that fine principle, and restrictive products (http://digihub.smh.com.au/node/1524) like the iPaid do not bode well for the future.
Title: Ipad
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 03 February 2010, 03:09:28
Quote from: ripster;155770
Like them I find netbooks still sluggish for simple web surfing tasks and don't want a full powered laptop in the living room.


Waah?

The iPad isn't going to be any faster than an average notebook, and there are plenty of decent 'full powered' laptops that aren't that big.
Title: Ipad
Post by: hyperlinked on Wed, 03 February 2010, 04:36:21
Quote from: webwit;155831
So, buy your ****ty ipad which will be as trivial as an ipod was to all the other mp3 players, but shut up ok?


Yeah, I think the general consensus is that the iPod is the worst device ever made in history. May the iPad dwarf the iPod's obscurity.

Jesus man, what the hell got into you today? Did someone stuff burnt rabbit **** in your Data Hand or something?
Title: Ipad
Post by: hyperlinked on Wed, 03 February 2010, 04:53:18
Quote from: ch_123;155840
The iPad isn't going to be any faster than an average notebook, and there are plenty of decent 'full powered' laptops that aren't that big.

I think the article goes on to say that it may actually be good for the average iPad user that it'd run iPhone like apps rather than full notebook apps because it'll allow the interface to be much snappier than what you'd get through a netbook or a cheap laptop. As the sometimes suffering owner of an Asus EeePC, I can understand what they're getting at.
Title: Ipad
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 03 February 2010, 05:11:09
Quote from: hyperlinked;155856
I think the article goes on to say that it may actually be good for the average iPad user that it'd run iPhone like apps rather than full notebook apps because it'll allow the interface to be much snappier than what you'd get through a netbook or a cheap laptop. As the sometimes suffering owner of an Asus EeePC, I can understand what they're getting at.


Time to get rid of that XP installation and put a good Linux distribution on it.
Title: Ipad
Post by: elbowglue on Wed, 03 February 2010, 05:19:34
Webwit added to my ignore list.  I'm sure he'll have something venomous to say about it but he's just too much for me.  I'll be happier for it, and you may be happier about it too.
Title: Ipad
Post by: bigpook on Wed, 03 February 2010, 08:36:46
Quote from: ch_123;155858
Time to get rid of that XP installation and put a good Linux distribution on it.


I second that. I got my wife an asus eeepc that came with some crippled version of linux. Ditched that and put ubuntu remix on it.
For web surfing and email  it works just fine. I don't find it 'sluggish' at all. The small size is a plus when traveling too. Plus the remix loads more stuff then I would even want to use on a eeepc...f-spot for example.

oh yeah, ALL of the hardware works too.
Title: Ipad
Post by: bigpook on Wed, 03 February 2010, 08:38:06
Quote from: webwit;155890
Yes do that, and post about it. Burn that witch. But I repeat: do not mention defective by design. Another creep.


webwit, why the vitriolic responses? Calm down man : )
Title: Ipad
Post by: bigpook on Wed, 03 February 2010, 09:00:11
no worries,man. no worries.
Title: Ipad
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 03 February 2010, 09:01:26
Quote from: bigpook;155892
I second that. I got my wife an asus eeepc that came with some crippled version of linux. Ditched that and put ubuntu remix on it.
For web surfing and email  it works just fine. I don't find it 'sluggish' at all. The small size is a plus when traveling too. Plus the remix loads more stuff then I would even want to use on a eeepc...f-spot for example.

oh yeah, ALL of the hardware works too.


It's almost depressing to contemplate how much computing power is wasted by Windows and bad software in general.
Title: Ipad
Post by: Rajagra on Wed, 03 February 2010, 09:06:59
Quote from: ch_123;155903
It's almost depressing to contemplate how much computing power is wasted by Windows and bad software in general.


Almost? It makes me feel like crying as I watch the hard disk light flashing madly when the machine is doing nothing. Nothing at all. :Cry:
Title: Ipad
Post by: bigpook on Wed, 03 February 2010, 09:34:21
I find it easy to dismiss windows in general.
But to be fair, maybe the problem is more XP then the netbook.
After all,isn't XP a bit long in the tooth nowadays?

Anyone try out a netbook with windows 7?
Title: Ipad
Post by: msiegel on Wed, 03 February 2010, 10:29:59
Quote from: Rajagra;155906
the machine is doing nothing. Nothing at all


yes, this happens to me on a machine with Gigabytes of RAM.

something is definitely wrong... :(
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 03 February 2010, 10:39:12
You're probably not setting a fixed swap file.
Title: Ipad
Post by: ricercar on Wed, 03 February 2010, 10:47:12
An ad Hominem attack is a fallacy because a person's interests and circumstances have no bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made.

The Appeal to Ridicule is a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is substituted for evidence in an "argument."

A fallacy is an "argument" in which the premises given for the conclusion do not provide the needed degree of support.
Title: Ipad
Post by: msiegel on Wed, 03 February 2010, 11:09:05
Quote from: itlnstln;155929
You're probably not setting a fixed swap file.


it's a mac; vm has no user-level controls :-/
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 03 February 2010, 11:10:52
Quote from: ripster;155942
Back to topic.
 
Another thoughtful article. (http://gizmodo.com/5461485/ipad-snivelers-put-up-or-shut-up?skyline=true&s=i)
 
I defend Gizmodo's writing staff with a wet noodle!
 
Nice insults though!

Thoughtful, perhaps, but it's a lot like socialists fighting fascists.  Two extremes fighting each other.  In the end, niether side has a compelling argument.
Title: Ipad
Post by: ricercar on Wed, 03 February 2010, 11:12:54
Quote from: ch_123;155840
The iPad isn't going to be any faster than an average notebook

This turns out not to be the case. By hardware, this is almost true. The Intel Atom is 800 MHz single core. Apple A4 is 1GHz dual core. By user experience, untrue. The UI responsiveness is screaming fast, which, in the entire history of mankind, is something no one has ever said about MacOS, Windows or Linux.

Holding an iPad in my hands is an unparalleled experience. The closest experience I can think of is the speed of GEOS (The only GUI ever written in assembly, AFAIK) on a 386. Wicked fast.
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 03 February 2010, 11:17:35
Quote from: ricercar;155948
This turns out not to be the case. By hardware, this is almost true. The Intel Atom is 800 MHz single core. Apple A4 is 1GHz dual core. By user experience, untrue. The UI responsiveness is screaming fast, which, in the entire history of mankind, is something no one has ever said about Windows or Linux.
 
Holding an iPad in my hands is an unparalleled experience. The closest experience I can think of is the speed of GEOS (The only GUI ever written in assembly, AFAIK) on a 386. Wicked fast.

And this is my main complaint.  They have a device that could be revolutionary, and they hamstrung it with an OS that in no way maximizes its potential.  It could kill netbooks.  Instead, they have a big iPod Touch.
Title: Ipad
Post by: ricercar on Wed, 03 February 2010, 11:36:25
Quote from: itlnstln;155951
they hamstrung it with an OS that in no way maximizes its potential.  It could kill netbooks. Instead, they have a big iPod Touch.

I do not disagree. However, the iPhone also was castrated on 1.0 release, and look what it did to its target market. On a deceptively minor scale, the iMac was laughable without a floppy in 97, yet all computer manufacturers followed suit, and the floppy was dead within a decade.

Additionally, the iSteve SDK (released on announcement day--compare with iPhone SDK release) reveals API for much-called for features they didn't mention in January (multitasking, USB, etc. No Flash, thankfully). Why? Because they weren't solid enough for a Jobsian Ego to demo in front of 6 billion people. Imagine what Apple will accomplish in the next two months.

Personally, I never bet money against Steve Jobs. NeXT, his only notable failure, is invisible against PIXAR and Apple, which have released multiple landmark products in their respective fields. Even NeXT is a success if you grant that Steve Jobs always corrects all his mistakes. Following Steve Jobs on the stock market has been profitable enough to buy plenty of non-Apple hardware until the 2.0 version of the Apple Product is for sale to consumers.

It's also fun to play devil's advocate. People show their true colors under stress.
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 03 February 2010, 11:51:47
And I don't disagree with you, either.  I think the difference in this case is that the usability, capability and interface of the iPhone as a "smartphone" (however you define that) was taken to a whole new level, and it was delivered with applications that made it usable (at least as usable as other smartphones) right out of the box even if EAS was missing.  That said, I don't think the iPad does this in it's current state.  If anything, it's a step backward in terms of the market it's trying to go after which leaves it in a odd and limited niche.
 
Now, with all that out of the way, I think Apple will make changes to the OS to really maximize its capabilities.  I also think that it will be successful in any incarnation for a variety of reasons, but I don't think it will be successful due to it being a good device (or at least a viable netbook alternative) on its own.*  Even then, the Newton was a flop, too, so we'll just have to see.
 
 
*Provided they ship with the current OS
Title: ubiquitous computing/convergence device
Post by: onowak on Wed, 03 February 2010, 12:56:46
i think the iPad will make a great ubiquitous computing/convergence device IF you buy into the "apple ecosystem". you have to see iPad in relation to the rest of apple's products, not in spite of them. on its own, iPad is gimped. as part of a larger apple ecosystem user-experience it will - allegedly - work really well.

i can see the iPad being useful as a home-based ubiquitous computing hub, with the rest of the apple ecosystem being its spokes. youd be able to control all aspects of the ecosystem from iPad - stream video from your desktop to your tv, drag/drop pics from the iphone to your desktop, control your apple tv experience, etc etc, all using iPad.

integrating computing into the background of your life, seamlessly. thats what the iPad is for. (i think, anyway.)

-0.
Title: Ipad
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 03 February 2010, 13:01:26
Quote from: onowak;155973
i think the iPad will make a great ubiquitous computing/convergence device IF you buy into the "apple ecosystem". you have to see iPad in relation to the rest of apple's products, not in spite of them. on its own, iPad is gimped. as part of a larger apple ecosystem user-experience it will - allegedly - work really well.

i can see the iPad being useful as a home-based ubiquitous computing hub, with the rest of the apple ecosystem being its spokes. youd be able to control all aspects of the ecosystem from iPad - stream video from your desktop to your tv, drag/drop pics from the iphone to your desktop, control your apple tv experience, etc etc, all using iPad.

integrating computing into the background of your life, seamlessly. thats what the iPad is for. (i think, anyway.)

-0.


Ecosystem? I wanted a tablet, not a biosphere...

But yeah, I agree with you otherwise. A rather cynical attempt to jump into a new market whilst simultaneously protecting your pre-existing cash cow. It's been done before, and it has a funny habit of exploding in the guilty party's face in the most unpleasant way.
Title: Ipad
Post by: alpslover on Wed, 03 February 2010, 13:03:41
Quote from: onowak;155973

i can see the iPad being useful as a home-based ubiquitous computing hub, with the rest of the apple ecosystem being its spokes. youd be able to control all aspects of the ecosystem from iPad - stream video from your desktop to your tv, drag/drop pics from the iphone to your desktop, control your apple tv experience, etc etc, all using iPad.


so it's a bulky, expensive, apple-only universal remote then.
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 03 February 2010, 13:07:15
Quote from: ch_123;155974
Ecosystem? I wanted a tablet, not a biosphere...
 
But yeah, I agree with you otherwise. A rather cynical attempt to jump into a new market whilst simultaneously protecting your pre-existing cash cow. It's been done before, and it has a funny habit of exploding in the guilty party's face in the most unpleasant way.

Wow. I could never put my own feelings into so few words. It's like he was reading my mind.
Title: id rather have the ecosystem
Post by: onowak on Wed, 03 February 2010, 15:16:16
i dont own any apple products - not even the iphone - however the potential for a ubiquitous computing ecosystem that encompasses mobile computing, desktop computing, and any number of household appliances (be they lightswitches, my tv, my router, my thermostat, my glasses, etc etc) in an easy-to-use GUI that seamlessly integrates all these devices sounds really attractive. all the better if its one company providing the "glue" to make it happen in a consistent manner.

i want my computer to make life easier, not harder. i dont have time to troubleshoot why CUPS isnt working, or fiddle with .ini files in emacs at home. professionally? - yah sure - at home? - id rather spend the time with the CUDA API...

right now ubiquitous computing - the kind where its so seamlessly integrated into our lives we dont even notice it - is still just a research group at the MIT MediaLab. i think this is where "house-hold" level computing is going. everything connected to everything else. apple just has the jump on everybody else.
Title: Ipad
Post by: kode on Wed, 03 February 2010, 15:37:57
If CUPS is giving you a headache, you really should blame Apple.
Title: Ipad
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 03 February 2010, 16:00:44
Quote from: onowak;156006
i dont own any apple products - not even the iphone - however the potential for a ubiquitous computing ecosystem that encompasses mobile computing, desktop computing, and any number of household appliances (be they lightswitches, my tv, my router, my thermostat, my glasses, etc etc) in an easy-to-use GUI that seamlessly integrates all these devices sounds really attractive. all the better if its one company providing the "glue" to make it happen in a consistent manner.

i want my computer to make life easier, not harder. i dont have time to troubleshoot why CUPS isnt working, or fiddle with .ini files in emacs at home. professionally? - yah sure - at home? - id rather spend the time with the CUDA API...

right now ubiquitous computing - the kind where its so seamlessly integrated into our lives we dont even notice it - is still just a research group at the MIT MediaLab. i think this is where "house-hold" level computing is going. everything connected to everything else. apple just has the jump on everybody else.


Stuff like that could be cool, but I'd never go within a million miles of it unless it was using completely open standards.

Ever decide to hook up an old computer, look for it's VGA port, but find one of these staring at you instead?'

(http://82.114.193.227/vga/image/sbirka/zahady/lsiff.jpg)

That's what it's going to be like when you need to replace last year's model of iDishwasher with this year's one.
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Wed, 03 February 2010, 16:47:42
Hey, a DB13W3 video connector! Someone's got a Sun or SGI box...

That actually *is* VGA, ch. Passive adapters exist.
Title: Ipad
Post by: Rajagra on Wed, 03 February 2010, 17:08:18
Quote from: onowak;155973
i think the iPad will make a great ubiquitous computing/convergence device IF you buy into the "apple ecosystem". you have to see iPad in relation to the rest of apple's products, not in spite of them. on its own, iPad is gimped. as part of a larger apple ecosystem user-experience it will - allegedly - work really well.


I think that's very well put. The trouble is, that idea benefits Apple more than its customers.
Title: Ipad
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 03 February 2010, 17:37:20
Quote from: kishy;156037
Hey, a DB13W3 video connector! Someone's got a Sun or SGI box...

That actually *is* VGA, ch. Passive adapters exist.

I know, I have my Indy hooked up to a Dell flatpanel with one.

Interestingly enough, implementations of 13W3 varied from vendor to vendor. Whilst the configuration of the coaxial RGB pins was constant, the small pins in the centre that dealt with synch, monitor info, GND etc. are different. This means of course that a monitor from Vendor A will expect it's synch info on pin x, but Vendor B's implementation might cause x to be NC, or have monitor info sent over it, causing the monitor to **** itself.

The adapter I have is a Sun one, but in order to use it with the SGI 13W3 connector, I had to pull all the small pins out of one end of a 13W3 cable, connect one end to the Indy, and the other to the adapter. In the absence of any info on the synch line, good VGA monitors will synch off green.

What I never figured out is why all those companies bothered. Maybe really old monitors benefited from a sharper signal over the coax RGB pins? Or more likely they didn't want people using standard monitors with their $10,000+ machines. Either way, it probably is one of the coolest looking connectors of all time.
Title: Ipad
Post by: HaaTa on Wed, 03 February 2010, 18:19:48
Quote from: ripster;156049
If you have memorized the color coding you are not a iPad target customer.


Damn...
Title: Ipad
Post by: HaaTa on Wed, 03 February 2010, 18:33:06
Not yet, but I'm going to Hokkaido on Saturday for a 10 day ski trip. :bounce:
If I don't blow too much money I'll pick up a G80-3600LYCEU-2 on the way back.

I know a guy in Kagoshima, so I may go visit him. And going to try and make a trip to Okinawa as well.
Title: Ipad
Post by: HaaTa on Wed, 03 February 2010, 19:22:10
Sure!

Yeah, definitely too many people in Tokyo and Osaka. The train stations are the worst.
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Thu, 04 February 2010, 05:25:46
If anything, that photo relates more to TrackPoints than anything else.
Title: Ipad
Post by: In Stereo! on Thu, 04 February 2010, 07:31:32
Quote from: ch_123;156045
What I never figured out is why all those companies bothered. Maybe really old monitors benefited from a sharper signal over the coax RGB pins? Or more likely they didn't want people using standard monitors with their $10,000+ machines. Either way, it probably is one of the coolest looking connectors of all time.


Technically speaking, you shoud have some signal loss when using a non coax connector. But I seriously doubt, that it is in any way perceptible by the end user. I think it has more to do with engeneering consistency -- you have a coax cable, you use a coax connector. This gets rethinked when cost cutting is introduced.
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 04 February 2010, 09:05:09
I find this (http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/03/joojoo-tablet-now-in-production-will-support-full-flash-at-laun/) device much more intriguing.
Title: Ipad
Post by: hyperlinked on Thu, 04 February 2010, 10:42:22
Quote from: itlnstln;156201
I find this (http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/03/joojoo-tablet-now-in-production-will-support-full-flash-at-laun/) device much more intriguing.

(http://thejoojoo.com/images/splash/j1.jpg)

I'm not sure why this would be much more intriguing if you thought the iPad's a total dud. It's not an Apple device, but aside from that, it's not radically different and they're going to need to do better than their current specifications (https://thejoojoo.com/sites/specification) if they're basically trying to be the non-iPad iPad at the same price as the entry level iPad.

Key differences:Like the iPad, it's basically a super sized version of a mobile phone OS.

In other news, it appears that Amazon is looking to beef up the kindle with the acquisition of a touch screen company (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/technology/04amazon.html?partner=rss&emc=rss).

Things are starting to get interesting.
Title: joojoo + linux OS
Post by: onowak on Thu, 04 February 2010, 11:04:04
the joojoo will also have a linux OS.

i can come up with the link if you need to see for yourself...

-0.
Title: Ipad
Post by: hyperlinked on Thu, 04 February 2010, 11:26:39
Quote from: onowak;156234
the joojoo will also have a linux OS.

i can come up with the link if you need to see for yourself...

-0.


Nah, I believe that. It has to be running something after all. Their tech specs just identified the OS as a "Browser Based OS." Obviously, they don't have anywhere near the marketing dollars that Apple have.

They're probably just playing for a favorable acquisition.
Title: Ipad
Post by: Chao on Thu, 04 February 2010, 14:24:30
Quote from: ripster;156203
At least the JooJoo plays flash (the guy says "the whole Internet is our iTunes store...").

Unfortunate name.  Also means 10-10 in Japanese.
Also Japanese onomatopoeia for frying food. Does it also function as a hotplate?
Title: Ipad
Post by: onowak on Thu, 04 February 2010, 14:47:40
im sure theres an app for that...

-0.
Title: Ipad
Post by: sethstorm on Thu, 04 February 2010, 19:32:34
Quote from: ripster;156317
I expect a boom in iPad clones.
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7721&stc=1&d=1265324459)


Given that it's China that makes them, they've already made them as we speak.
Title: Ipad
Post by: hyperlinked on Fri, 05 February 2010, 00:58:27
Quote from: ripster;156347
OOOoooo.  Microsoft bashing time.

NY Times Op-Ed on why Microsoft will never do an iPad (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/opinion/04brass.html?pagewanted=1)


Sometime around ten years ago, I found myself walking through the Minnesota/St. Paul airport on my way to a connecting flight and seeing this random Microsoft booth in the middle of the concourse. A representative there was personally demoing the upcoming Microsoft Tablet PC. After a short demo, he handed me the bulky slate and a stylus and told me to try my handwriting out with its handwriting recognition features.

I remember finding the device to be really cool and the handwriting recognition worked well enough with my chicken scratched excuse for penmanship. The guy told me the device was set for launch after about another year or so. That year passed and I remember hearing some murmurs about some Microsoft Tablet PC and then nothing followed by more nothing for years.
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 05 February 2010, 07:43:13
Quote from: ripster;156347
OOOoooo. Microsoft bashing time.
 
NY Times Op-Ed on why Microsoft will never do an iPad (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/opinion/04brass.html?pagewanted=1)

Why when they have this (I can't remember the name, though):
 
Quote from: hyperlinked;156369
Sometime around ten years ago, I found myself walking through the Minnesota/St. Paul airport on my way to a connecting flight and seeing this random Microsoft booth in the middle of the concourse. A representative there was personally demoing the upcoming Microsoft Tablet PC. After a short demo, he handed me the bulky slate and a stylus and told me to try my handwriting out with its handwriting recognition features.
 
I remember finding the device to be really cool and the handwriting recognition worked well enough with my chicken scratched excuse for penmanship. The guy told me the device was set for launch after about another year or so. That year passed and I remember hearing some murmurs about some Microsoft Tablet PC and then nothing followed by more nothing for years.
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 05 February 2010, 07:45:39
It was the "Courier."  Here is a vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmIgNfp-MdI) (there are a ton, and some with live usage).
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Fri, 05 February 2010, 08:23:26
Quote from: itlnstln;156408
It was the "Courier."  Here is a vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmIgNfp-MdI) (there are a ton, and some with live usage).

Now THAT is a useful device. I do kind of remember some murmurs about it too...it's a shame it never really 'happened'.

Kinda bugs me that it's a Microsoft product, but I'll give credit where credit is due.
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 05 February 2010, 08:31:17
I thought I read somewhere where the Courier is due out later this year, but I could be wrong.  For sure, though, they are actively working on it.
Title: Ipad
Post by: erricrice on Fri, 05 February 2010, 08:42:20
Quote
Microsoft has given no official indication when (or if) the unit will be available for purchase, or how much it will cost, though there have been some reports that the delivery goal is "mid-2010".


Meh, Wikipedia can be helpful sometimes...
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Fri, 05 February 2010, 08:51:18
Oh that's awesome then.

I'm not one to keep up with the most modern stuff mainly because I just don't like immersing myself in technology too much, but that's a product I would actually consider owning and using. I can see numerous ways it would be helpful at college.
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 05 February 2010, 08:52:19
Quote from: kishy;156429
Oh that's awesome then.
 
I'm not one to keep up with the most modern stuff mainly because I just don't like immersing myself in technology too much, but that's a product I would actually consider owning and using.

Same here.  I haven't bought a new computer in years, but something like the Courier might just get me to open up my wallet.
Title: Ipad
Post by: hyperlinked on Fri, 05 February 2010, 09:07:58
Quote from: itlnstln;156408
It was the "Courier."  Here is a vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmIgNfp-MdI) (there are a ton, and some with live usage).


The courier was not the device I had my hands on some years ago... Remember, this was somewhere around 8 years ago. The device I tried was basically a PC laptop with no keyboard and a touch screen running some modified version of Windows.

Anyway, the Courier demo makes the device look absolutely lust worthy, but like the iPad, I'm not sure if I'd have a solid use for it.

BTW, I think the video is a simulation instead of live usage.

Quote from: kishy;156421
Kinda bugs me that it's a Microsoft product, but I'll give credit where credit is due.


Man, is there any company that you like? :flypig:
Title: Ipad
Post by: erricrice on Fri, 05 February 2010, 09:17:54
Yeah, I think the Courier is one new product that I might buy and actually use!
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 05 February 2010, 09:18:21
Quote from: hyperlinked;156432
BTW, I think the video is a simulation instead of live usage.

The video I linked to is, but there are others floating around that show live use.
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Fri, 05 February 2010, 10:59:30
Quote from: hyperlinked;156432
Man, is there any company that you like? :flypig:

Dell, Ford, AMD, Creative, Western Digital
Apparently Atmel too if that USB controller is going to be as easy as it looks.
Title: Courier would be nice
Post by: onowak on Fri, 05 February 2010, 11:37:07
i would buy the Courier if MS released it.

if it had multi-touch + the stylus that would be even better...

OneNote would absolutely rule on that platform.

-0.
Title: Ipad
Post by: erricrice on Fri, 05 February 2010, 12:44:19
Quote from: webwit;156474
How's your AAPL going? :cheer2:

Ooh.


Ouch.
Title: Ipad
Post by: jaybee on Fri, 05 February 2010, 13:09:53
Quote from: webwit;156474
How's your AAPL going? :cheer2:

Ooh.


I don't own any, but it's up 100% over the past year, vs 25% for the S&P 500 and 37% or so for NASDAQ. Record quarterly results in the middle of a recession.

A friend of mine just sold his for a $20k gain.
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 05 February 2010, 13:25:00
Quote
Frequent/Intense Profanity or Crude Humor

OK, that one's for me.
 
Quote
Frequent/Intense Cartoon or Fantasy Violence

Ripster's covered under this one.
 
Quote
Frequent/Intense Mature/Suggestive Themes
Infrequent/Mild Horror/Fear Themes
Infrequent/Mild Sexual Content or Nudity
Infrequent/Mild Realistic Violence
Infrequent/Mild Alcohol, Tobacco, or Drug Use or References

And, then, there's Webwit.
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 05 February 2010, 13:39:38
BTW, Ripster, why do you have an app called "Freeballin'?"
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 05 February 2010, 14:05:21
Ha!  Did somebody post that here in the Desktop Pics thread?
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 05 February 2010, 14:15:56
Damn, that would be pretty funny.  Don't know how I missed that one.
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 05 February 2010, 14:29:31
Quote from: ripster;156533
Show Image
(http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/ic/blogs/channelsurfing/uploaded_images/the-wire-2-759039.jpg)

There's something very wrong with this picture.  Well, maybe not, both Idris Elba and Dominic West are from the UK.
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 05 February 2010, 14:34:57
I sure hope so, knitting needles just don't do it for me.  At least the iPad will be easy clean-up.  No more wiping in between keys.  The only problem is, you won't be able to watch those Flash-based movies.
Title: Ipad
Post by: ricercar on Fri, 05 February 2010, 14:38:59
Quote
an app called "Freeballin'?"


Is it about the guy I knew in college who wore too-short cutoff jeans and no underwear?
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 05 February 2010, 14:44:01
Well, at least there's some truth in advertising there.
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 05 February 2010, 15:16:29
Quote from: ripster;156564
Never play rugby with a True Scotsman.

I'd be worried if during a scrum, somebody yelled, "wrong ball, fool!"
Title: Ipad
Post by: jaybee on Fri, 05 February 2010, 15:50:18
Quote from: webwit;156498
It's down since the iPad announcement and it will go down more if the stock holders are not convinced that Steve has not lost it. The iPad has no position since without 3G it is a brick, but the kids don't want another service plan. Also the competition is fiercer than anytime before but now they are early adopters. Danger, danger, extreme danger..


Everything is down this week, as you might have noticed.

Here's a snip from BusinessWeek (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/feb2010/tc2010024_830227_page_2.htm) today:

Quote
FAILURE WOULD HURT APPLE HOW?
But what if consumers never get it? Apple hasn't had a hands-down failure (the PowerMac G4 Cube) for about a decade, and let's just say for the sake of discussion that this turns out to be one, and that Apple shuts down the iPad line at the end of, say, 2011.

Apple would still be an astonishingly strong company. At the end of 2009, Mac shipments had nearly doubled to 10.4 million from 5.3 million in 2006. Mac revenue nearly doubled, too. In Apple's most recent quarter, iPhone unit sales doubled from a year earlier, while a change in accounting rules caused revenue from that device to nearly quintuple. Apple's $39.8 billion in cash is the highest among tech companies. If the iPad failed, little about that would change.


And a snippet from Fortune (http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2010/01/28/how-many-ipads-will-apple-sell/)

Quote
At least six analysts — Reitzes, Munster, Reiner, Fidacaro, Craig and Bailey — have raised their AAPL targets since the unveiling (to $285, $284, $265, $260, $250 and $240, respectively).


But if you're that sure, then you should short the stock. Great opportunity.
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 05 February 2010, 15:55:48
Ha!  The markets falling yesterday was the ultimate in irony.  Supposedly, one reason they fell is that investors thought countries took on too much debt when they initialized their economic stimulus plans.  You know, the plans that were supposed to counteract... hey, wait...
Title: Ipad
Post by: jaybee on Fri, 05 February 2010, 16:24:53
Quote from: webwit;156609
Steve looked old and not cool to the kids, the language was almost desperate.

I haven't seen the kid survey data on their reaction to having watched the presentation (or was it a focus group?), so I'll have to take your word on it.

But you're right, it's all about the kids (http://northtemple.com/2010/02/01/on-ipads-grandmas-and-gam).

Just maybe not this one (http://weblog.muledesign.com/2010/02/the_failure_of_empathy.php):

Quote
I went back for a second helping of Avatar this Sunday. There’s a scene early on in the movie where one of the scientists walks across the lab carrying the “mobile computer slab of the future.” We’ve seen one of these in almost every sci-fi movie of the last 50 years. It comes free with a jetpack, I suppose. Except this time, one month later, my 12 year old son turns to me and whispers “Look Dad, it’s an iPad.”
Title: Ipad
Post by: Oqsy on Sat, 06 February 2010, 00:41:51
Quote from: webwit;156545
Some people use everything to sell evil stuff. She's a player.


mmm, labia spreaders.  almost as good as a front-thong.
as far as truth in advertising, i'd still sue for false advertising because it looks less like a camel toe and more like sloth toe.  to each his own though, right?
Title: Ipad
Post by: vils on Mon, 08 February 2010, 13:53:44
For our german reading friends:
Frankfurter Allgemeine: Die Politik des iPad (http://www.faz.net/s/Rub475F682E3FC24868A8A5276D4FB916D7/Doc~E4C9B52F05C0C4D6AA6E031D952812B10~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html).
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 08 February 2010, 14:34:42
Rupert Murdoch.  Say what you want of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, or whoever, but that guy is evil.
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 10 February 2010, 10:17:10
Quote from: ripster;157572
Netflix did turn on very quietly HD streaming in December for a few titles. Supposedly not quite BluRay quality but the big problem remains no 5.1 sound yet.

Check it (http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/netflix-1080p-5.1-surround). I read several articles on this very topic.  Hopefully, they'll have something soon.
Title: Ipad
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 10 February 2010, 11:21:23
An alternative viewpoint on the Flash debacle. (http://channel.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=22279)

What particularly amused me was Adobe's response to the claims -

Quote
However, soon after the launch, Steve Jobs was reported as saying that Adobe is lazy and that Apple doesn't support Flash because it's so buggy. He also opined that Flash will eventually become obsolete as the world moves to HTML 5, which aims to render rich content plug-ins like Flash unnecessary.

Adobe CTO Kevin Lynch indirectly responded to Jobs' disses in a blog post. In it he pointed out that Flash is used by 85 percent of the top websites, is installed on 98 percent of PCs, and is used for the majority of casual games, video and animation on the web.
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 10 February 2010, 11:25:26
And then there's this (http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/adobe-got-7-million-iphone-and-ipod-touch-download-requests-for/)...
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 10 February 2010, 11:34:45
Exactly right.  I would be better serviced by having Flash now, than HTML5 later. Having Flash now doesn't mean I still couldn't have HTML5 support later, it just means I can do more of what I want when I want it.
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Wed, 10 February 2010, 11:59:42
Not difficult for MS to destroy any chance of HTML 5 ever becoming BROADLY used...

Simple: Internet Explorer.

There are still people running 2k...some even with 98...these people can't go beyond IE6 as far as IE goes, so if they aren't using a more modern browser (and we know at least some aren't) those people will hold the rest of the world back (contrary to popular belief, yes, the world will wait for them, even if impatiently).
Title: Ipad
Post by: hyperlinked on Wed, 17 February 2010, 00:13:54
Quote from: kishy;157607
There are still people running 2k...some even with 98...these people can't go beyond IE6 as far as IE goes, so if they aren't using a more modern browser (and we know at least some aren't) those people will hold the rest of the world back (contrary to popular belief, yes, the world will wait for them, even if impatiently).

I don't tightly catering to people who are sticking with Windows 2000 and 98 really makes a lot of marketing sense because we could probably put those people into one of three categories:Actually, there's a fourth category I forgot about... the Institutional users, but I guess that's just a different kind of crazy. These are people whose organizations have mission critical apps that were made to run within IE6.

The other thing is that most things work ok in IE6. The complaint that we Web developers have with IE6 isn't that our sites don't work at all in IE6. It's that they're glitchy and they look a bit off, but oftentimes they're usable.

Dropping IE6 support doesn't mean that sites will stop working in IE6. It just means that we stop devoting 5-10% of our project time to bastardizing CSS and JavaScript so that it'll be compatible with IE6 without messing up other browsers. The end result is a site that probably isn't any worse than your typical handheld browser experience on a typical site.
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Wed, 17 February 2010, 09:57:38
Organizations...geez. I was in a government office and their workstations were all running XP w/IE6...how'd I know this? Because the interface for them to access your records - yes, government office - depends on IE6.

The really stupid thing is how those same computers have internet access. Better be one mother of a hardware firewall on that connection...
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Wed, 17 February 2010, 10:13:44
I dunno about you but there's something about the tactile experience of holding a newspaper/book...I won't, for as long as possible at least, replace a proper paper copy with an e-anything.

Thus, I'd pay $0 for an online subscription, and I think it's actually worth approximately the same.
Title: Ipad
Post by: ricercar on Wed, 17 February 2010, 11:00:33
Quote from: hyperlinked;158761
we stop devoting 5-10% of our project time to bastardizing CSS and JavaScript so that it'll be compatible with IE6 without messing up other browsers.


Wait, wait, wait. Did we time travel back to 1997?
Title: Ipad
Post by: hyperlinked on Wed, 17 February 2010, 11:28:11
Quote from: ricercar;158835
Wait, wait, wait. Did we time travel back to 1997?


Is that why I sense the distinct smell of COBOL? And why's everyone referring to Prince as "The artist formerly known as Prince" again?
Title: Ipad
Post by: hyperlinked on Wed, 17 February 2010, 11:30:55
Quote from: kishy;158802
Organizations...geez. I was in a government office and their workstations were all running XP w/IE6...how'd I know this? Because the interface for them to access your records - yes, government office - depends on IE6.


The Space Shuttle runs on old PCs because they know it works for what they need it to do and it's too risky and expensive to upgrade something that isn't broken.

The last Shuttle flight is coming soon. That must mean we can finally retire IE6!
Title: Ipad
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 17 February 2010, 11:37:16
IE6?  They're probably running Mosaic on the shuttle.
Title: Ipad
Post by: kishy on Wed, 17 February 2010, 11:44:20
Quote from: ripster;158849
The real money is in iPad domain name selling.

$21M.  (http://cgi.ebay.com/GPad-Store-COM-Google-Chrome-Apple-iPad-Tablet-Domain_W0QQitemZ250578167348QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDomain_Names?hash=item3a579f6634) Or make a offer.

iPad = "Clicky" Keyboards (http://cgi.ebay.com/PAPER-TOWEL-DISPENSER-TOUCHLESS-AUTOMATIC-DELL-ipad_W0QQitemZ190373248057QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2c53213c39)


For some reason I found the inclusion of "DELL" more humourous.
Title: Ipad
Post by: hyperlinked on Wed, 17 February 2010, 11:46:52
Quote from: itlnstln;158848
IE6?  They're probably running Mosaic on the shuttle.

No way! There's no Web on the shuttle! They Gopher and WAIS.