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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: happylacquer on Sat, 31 December 2016, 03:46:10
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Any scissor switch fans here?
IBM SK series (specifically the ThinkPad style ones with UltraNav) specifically but all scissor switch discussion is welcome.
Chiclet keys should die in a fire. :llama:
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I've had several good scissor switch keyboards (2x Logitech Illuminated) and laptops (X220, T420, Macbook), it's also behind creation of Jailhouse Blues.
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Scissor is good.. but now we got butterfly by apple.. hahaahahha
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Scissor is good.. but now we got butterfly by apple.. hahaahahha
I actually hadn't heard about this until you posted this... it looks cool...
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Scissor switch is love. Scissor switch is life.
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Scissor is good.. but now we got butterfly by apple.. hahaahahha
Yes, but there was something about it that made it useless... Oh yes, it comes attached to a new Mac. :))
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Scissor is good.. but now we got butterfly by apple.. hahaahahha
Yes, but there was something about it that made it useless... Oh yes, it comes attached to a new Mac. :))
:D :D :D :D :D
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I just grabbed a Kinsington For Life keyboard, $10 on amazon, because some said it switches and some say it's rubber dome. compared to my rubber dome boards, which SUCK to type on, this is nice and a breeze. The keyboard keys are full height but they're either a super light dome or a crazy budget scissors at $11. I also found on amazon for the same price a MediaTek scissor board that gets rave reviews and is also $11. I bought them both, but only this one's here so far.
It is the Kensingston K64370A/K72446US
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In the past your best options were the Logitech Ultra X and Enermax Aurora.
Today I recommend the Siig Premium Aluminum or Cherry Stream XT. If you go with the latter don't be afraid about the ISO enter key. If you go with G85-23100EU-2 even though the box itself may show a ISO enter it is indeed ANSI.
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On an HP Wireless 'Elite' atm. It's not bad but not good. ~55g for actuation tho
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Scissor is good.. but now we got butterfly by apple.. hahaahahha
Yes, but there was something about it that made it useless... Oh yes, it comes attached to a new Mac. :))
'dis is how poor people think...
to sooth their own inability to afford female catching library accessories..
/Tp4 iz p00r... but am without delusions to the fact
(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/uhuhuh-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862523)
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Scissor is good.. but now we got butterfly by apple.. hahaahahha
Yes, but there was something about it that made it useless... Oh yes, it comes attached to a new Mac. :))
'dis is how poor people think...
to sooth their own inability to afford female catching library accessories..
/Tp4 iz p00r... but am without delusions to the fact
[attach=1]
Tell me again why I'm supposed to take my Mac to the library to attract women.
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Well if you're like, you love the sound of mechs but they aren't always practical. Plus I have a soft spot in my heart from years and years of ThinkPad use. I had sold my Model M on Craigslist for $100 (too much, I know) and replaced it with the cheapest knockoff Blue board I could find. It was fine, but just..... fine. After about a year I spilled a little water on it and ever since then it would randomly input an "o" character when it wasn't being typed. So it was time to stop just lurking here and sign up.
First thing that caught my eye was the oft-mentioned QSENN DT35..... Which is no longer with me.
I don't know who will care here, but I did a shootout of three "popular" switch boards, plus one I hadn't heard of, but rumor was it was a scissor.
1. QSenn DT-35
2. Lenovo SK-8835
3. Dell KB1421
4. SolidTek scissor keyboard ($11 on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005KDOBLQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
5. Kesingston Keyboard For Life (lol what a name).
The QSenn DT35 was not bad but got tiring quickly. So why pro gamers loved this, I don't know. Maybe everything else was even worse in the early 2000's.
The Lenovo SK-8835 was nothing special. It felt just slightly more natural than the Dell to me but still not great in any way. Has the bank/cashier keyboard sound though.
3. Dell KB1421 - These are **** no matter how you look at them. It's okay for a little basic typing but doing actual work on it will make you cry.
4. The SolidTek which got amazing reviews on Amazon was extremely disappointing. Good if you want silent typing, but it feels just like typing on a budget laptop. so, not good in feel or sound.
5. The Kesingston.... I was suprisingly shocked by. It has the feel of a Happy Hacking Lite2. It's almost ridiculous how much nicer is it to type on this than the others. I don't know if it's dome or scissors (haven't ripped off any keys but with the exception of the space bar, all the keys are FAR lighter than all the above mentioned ones, and probably on par with the SolidTek.) It has a nice rubber clack like the others and is more high pitched than the mush clack of stuff like the Dell or QSenn.
TLDR, if you're poor or can't get or don't want a mech clack for some reason, the Kesingston Keyboard For Life gets my vote for best sub $30 keyboard.
Will I keep using it when my mech gets here? Lol, doubtful. But, I can type for a long time on it without pain, so there's something.
BTW, I have a smoking hot girlfriend and I picked her up
(and all the ones before her) without any sort of computer involved, unless you count AIM flirting.
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I agree, the Kensington Keyboard for Life is awesome. I have been typing on it for a couple months at work (software dev). I have owned many mechanical keyboards, expensive ones too and I prefer typing on my Kensington. Ever since I spilled coffee on my Ultra X I have been trying to find a scissor switch keyboard that was similar, but was never able to until I found the Kensington. Now I just need to find a tenkeyless version and I would be set.
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Well, HHKB Lite2 is technically a generic Chicony board, except with a metal backplate compared to their cheaper offerings. I wonder if the Kensington is the same hardware, but I rather doubt it. Do you happen to know its FCC ID?
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I swear we had a thread like this. I posted the Type Matrix keyboard.
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I remember one also. I even recommended the Kensington board in that thread and people pretty much laughed at the idea. Heck I even did the same thing when I first heard about the Keyboard For Life in another thread. The name is so stupid it's hard to take serious. But I wound up buying one anyways to try and am glad I did. I think the only reason I bought it in the first place was because it looked identical to the ASUS one I was using at work.
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I actually quite like the previous generation of Apple aluminum keyboards. They did vary a bit, but the two that I've had are really tactile and extremely quiet.
Not a bad option in the office instead of the cheap rubber domes that have a terrible sound and feel.
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https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=9808
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54719
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75394
I'm sure there's an old, much longer thread too.
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https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=9808
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54719
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75394
I'm sure there's an old, much longer thread too.
2010. 2014 and 2015. Would have made for some great necrobumps!
I actually quite like the previous generation of Apple aluminum keyboards. They did vary a bit, but the two that I've had are really tactile and extremely quiet.
Not a bad option in the office instead of the cheap rubber domes that have a terrible sound and feel.
The USB ones or the MBP/Powerbook G4 ones? I loved the old MBP keys so much but the aluminum Apple USB keyboards make my fingers hurt so much. i used that board for over a year before getting completely sick of it. I think I replaced it with Cherry Blues.
I remember one also. I even recommended the Kensington board in that thread and people pretty much laughed at the idea. Heck I even did the same thing when I first heard about the Keyboard For Life in another thread. The name is so stupid it's hard to take serious. But I wound up buying one anyways to try and am glad I did. I think the only reason I bought it in the first place was because it looked identical to the ASUS one I was using at work.
Agreed 100% but I was mainly excited about it because it feels like a HHKB Lite for a much lower price
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I actually quite like the previous generation of Apple aluminum keyboards. They did vary a bit, but the two that I've had are really tactile and extremely quiet.
Not a bad option in the office instead of the cheap rubber domes that have a terrible sound and feel.
Same. I think the new "butterfly" ones are horrible, but that last generation was quite solid and very fast to type on. I have a full-sized one, a bluetooth one, and the one built into my Macbook Air, and I am quite content to type on any of them. As much as I love my HHKB, I'm not really convinced I type any faster on it than on the Apple ones.
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5. The Kesingston.... I was suprisingly shocked by. It has the feel of a Happy Hacking Lite2. It's almost ridiculous how much nicer is it to type on this than the others. I don't know if it's dome or scissors (haven't ripped off any keys but with the exception of the space bar, all the keys are FAR lighter than all the above mentioned ones, and probably on par with the SolidTek.) It has a nice rubber clack like the others and is more high pitched than the mush clack of stuff like the Dell or QSenn.
When you took off the space bar does it look like A or B?
A. http://bit.ly/2jfgGVZ (Rubber dome)
B. http://bigfi.sh/2j856tl (Scissor switch)
Just wondering if it's indeed using scissor switch or rubber dome over membrane. Thanks.
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Scissor switch is just a stabilization mechanism, that replaces the slider in rubber dome over membrane keyboards.
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5. The Kesingston.... I was suprisingly shocked by. It has the feel of a Happy Hacking Lite2. It's almost ridiculous how much nicer is it to type on this than the others. I don't know if it's dome or scissors (haven't ripped off any keys but with the exception of the space bar, all the keys are FAR lighter than all the above mentioned ones, and probably on par with the SolidTek.) It has a nice rubber clack like the others and is more high pitched than the mush clack of stuff like the Dell or QSenn.
When you took off the space bar does it look like A or B?
A. http://bit.ly/2jfgGVZ (Rubber dome)
B. http://bigfi.sh/2j856tl (Scissor switch)
Just wondering if it's indeed using scissor switch or rubber dome over membrane. Thanks.
Probably rubber dome. Getting scissor space bars off is a PITA.
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Looks extremely similar to the Logitech K120 keyboard. Low profile rubber dome with pad printed keys at similar price. The Kensington Keyboard for Life looks much better though, no idea why it only has 98 reviews while the k120 has 3k+ on Amazon.
Anyone has both for comparison?
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I like the idea of scissor switches, the engineering is sound.
Huh... I wonder if Apple's patent is part of the reason that the TextBlade is having such crazy delays (it uses the same kind of butterfly mechanism).
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Some Scissor switch keyboard I tried so far:
Thinkpad USB keyboard(New layout) - The keyboard looks similar to laptop but because it's pad printed, your fingers will feel the legends and it makes the keyboard feels cheap and uncomfortable to type. I also hate the Fn/Ctrl keys placement. If they came out with Full size/TKL version with dye sub, this will probably be the best. I also prefer their new island style keys instead of traditional version. - Don't expect this keyboard to feel as good as their laptop's.
Apple Wired USB keyboard - As the keys are all flat instead of curved, the feel is slightly worse than Thinkpad laptop keyboard but because the legends are dye sub/engraved, you can't feel the legends which makes typing much smoother and more comfortable than Thinkpad USB keyboard. Quality control is bad as the 2nd set I bought had different feel for some keys but if you got a good set, it feels solid. However, it gets dirty very easy and hard to clean so you tend to replace them often which gets expensive. - The Apple wired keyboard actually feels better than their Macbook keyboard.
Logitech Illuminated keyboard - Build feels solid but has an annoying pitch sound and the typing feel is the worst out of the 3. The keys are oddly shaped for e.g. the bottom row Windows/Alt/Ctrl keys have a different shape compared to the letter row which is stupid. It also has glossy finish which some may not like. I usually type with my wrist resting on the table and the unnecessary wrist rest size for this keyboard gets in the way so it's out since it's non-removable and it's not large enough for my whole wrist to rest on.
I find the Thinkpad Laptop has the best feeling for a scissor switch keyboard and it's unfortunate that they decided to cheap out on their external USB keyboard. I've also had MX Blue, Brown and Red switches and I think the Thinkpad laptop keyboard(Not USB) is on par with them. Maybe I'll try Topre next but it seems overpriced since rubber eventually gets stiffer/mushier overtime so you tend to change it every 5 years instead 10 years+ like Model M.
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Some Scissor switch keyboard I tried so far:
Thinkpad USB keyboard(New layout) - The keyboard looks similar to laptop but because it's pad printed, your fingers will feel the legends and it makes the keyboard feels cheap and uncomfortable to type. I also hate the Fn/Ctrl keys placement. If they came out with Full size/TKL version with dye sub, this will probably be the best. I also prefer their new island style keys instead of traditional version. - Don't expect this keyboard to feel as good as their laptop's.
Apple Wired USB keyboard - As the keys are all flat instead of curved, the feel is slightly worse than Thinkpad laptop keyboard but because the legends are dye sub/engraved, you can't feel the legends which makes typing much smoother and more comfortable than Thinkpad USB keyboard. Quality control is bad as the 2nd set I bought had different feel for some keys but if you got a good set, it feels solid. However, it gets dirty very easy and hard to clean so you tend to replace them often which gets expensive. - The Apple wired keyboard actually feels as good as their laptop's.
Logitech Illuminated keyboard - Feels solid but has an annoying pitch sound. It also has glossy finish which some may not like. I usually type with my wrist resting on the table and the wrist rest for this keyboard gets in the way so it's out since it's non-removable.
I find the Thinkpad Laptop has the best feeling for a scissor switch keyboard and it's unfortunate that they decided to cheap out on their external USB keyboard. I've also had MX Blue, Brown and Red switches and I think the Thinkpad laptop keyboard(Not USB) is on par with them. Maybe I'll try Topre next but it seems overpriced since rubber eventually gets stiffer/mushier overtime so you tend to change it every 5 years instead 10 years+ like Model M.
Hey bro have you ever used the older thinkpad style USB keyboards? I want a new in box one because old ones are always so gross, cant switch caps, etc but worried new ones feel like any other POS laptop keyboard now, especially since chiclet keys have been Lenovo's thing for years now.
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Scissor is good.. but now we got butterfly by apple.. hahaahahha
Those are also scissor switches. First of all, it is a very low-profile design, with short stubby legs below the hinge - which has been done before many times. However, instead of a proper mechanical hinge the hinge is made of rubber co-moulded with the plastic.
The switches also have metal domes (like 1970's calculators) instead of rubber domes to allow the keyboard to be even thinner.
There are two versions: 2015 MacBook and 2016 MacBook Pro. The latter has slighly more key travel and is slightly nicer to type on ... but they are both horrible. These were designed for people who hunt and peck: for people who touch-type, they are abysmal, even for scissor switches.
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I find the Thinkpad Laptop has the best feeling for a scissor switch keyboard and it's unfortunate that they decided to cheap out on their external USB keyboard.
ThinkPad laptop keyboards have been made from many different manufacturers. Even now in the chiclet era there are a few ones out there with slightly different feel.
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Hey bro have you ever used the older thinkpad style USB keyboards? I want a new in box one because old ones are always so gross, cant switch caps, etc but worried new ones feel like any other POS laptop keyboard now, especially since chiclet keys have been Lenovo's thing for years now.
Yeah I still have the older Thinkpad style USB keyboard. The keys feel similar to the older Thinkpad laptop but the build quality is bad as the keyboard flex easily and it uses pad printing. The new island keys actually feels good as the keys are curved compared to most other chiclets keys which are totally flat but it could use a better layout. Their Lenovo/Ideapad/Gaming model's looks very similar but the feel is totally different from the Thinkpad laptop e.g. X1 Carbon.
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I find the Thinkpad Laptop has the best feeling for a scissor switch keyboard and it's unfortunate that they decided to cheap out on their external USB keyboard.
ThinkPad laptop keyboards have been made from many different manufacturers. Even now in the chiclet era there are a few ones out there with slightly different feel.
You may be right. I had the first gen X1 Carbon and the keyboard feels good to type on. Maybe their newer ones suck? I wouldn't know but their Lenovo/Ideapad version definitely feels crap although they may look the same as Thinkpad.
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There have been at least two or three OEMs for thinkpad keyboards: NMB, Chicony and ¿Silitek?... the domes feel and sound quite different.
In addition, different models of current thinkpads have keyboards with different travel; e.g., X1 Carbon has shorter throw than T series.
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I used to use an Apple aluminium keyboard, and I'm not ashamed to say that I even quite liked it!
So much that I bought two more.
One ended up having a chocolate milk bath.
Another gave me little electric shocks each time I touched it. I used to slap it before starting to type to discharge any static electricity, but it didn't help much.
The other one I keep around just in case I need to do something Apple-esque with my Mac where a more conventional mechanical keyboard might not be mapped or recognised sufficiently early in the boot process.
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You are all nutz. Macbook pro are the dankest for catching tail at the biblioteca, but not because of the switches. All the ladies want that big black thock.
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I used to use an Apple aluminium keyboard, and I'm not ashamed to say that I even quite liked it!
So much that I bought two more.
One ended up having a chocolate milk bath.
Another gave me little electric shocks each time I touched it. I used to slap it before starting to type to discharge any static electricity, but it didn't help much.
The other one I keep around just in case I need to do something Apple-esque with my Mac where a more conventional mechanical keyboard might not be mapped or recognised sufficiently early in the boot process.
Apple does make good scissor switches, when I'm taking notes in class I enjoy using my MBP (early 2010 so pre the total garbage known as the butterfly or "zero travel" switch).
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Best scissor switches that I've typed on were the ones on the Surface tablet keyboard. Travel distance was about what you'd expect from a scissor switch, but the tactility and sound were something else.
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I also dropped a pair of scissors on an MX keyboard once, but I don't think that counts.
Curiously they were blue-handled scissors dropped onto Cherry MX blues in a Ducky Shine.
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Best scissor switches that I've typed on were the ones on the Surface tablet keyboard. Travel distance was about what you'd expect from a scissor switch, but the tactility and sound were something else.
Are you referring to the Surface Pro TypeCover?
I actually quite like some scissor-switch keyboards. They can be fantastically tactile/poppy while still being quiet. Some of my fastest and most accurate typing is done on them.
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It looks Kailh is planning to release individual scissor switch.
http://www.4gamer.net/games/999/G999902/20170602106/
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I've had several good scissor switch keyboards (2x Logitech Illuminated) and laptops (X220, T420, Macbook), it's also behind creation of Jailhouse Blues.
I've had several Logitech Illuminated keyboards which are some of my all time favorites. I can type faster on this than any other board. However I now use mechanical and don't look back.
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It looks Kailh is planning to release individual scissor switch.
http://www.4gamer.net/games/999/G999902/20170602106/
While I like the idea, keycaps will be extremely limited and they are rather delicate, though you can replace them, so they have that going for them.
Another problem I foresee is that they will be low profile and the only things I've seen with low profile mechanicals (in consumer goods) were large laptops and (usually) terrible low profile keyboards.
I'm hoping the Speed Series will be sort of similar though, I have some on the way.
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