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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: dante on Tue, 03 January 2017, 16:34:24

Title: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: dante on Tue, 03 January 2017, 16:34:24
What do you think of Vortex's first effort of a 40% layout? 

(http://mechboards.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Czn7_5yXcAAiqzN.jpg)
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: oneproduct on Tue, 03 January 2017, 17:09:14
I see some choices that I like quite a lot.

First, split spacebar. Every keyboard should do this.

Second, Ctrl in the bottom left corner. For people who prefer Ctrl in the Caps Lock position, that's also fine but I put my backspace there because backspace is generally used more frequently than control. However, since I would probably use the other half of the split spacebar for backspace, I'd probably use the caps lock position as an alternate Fn key if it's reprogrammable. I still like control in the left hand corner because of accessibility (it's physically easy to find the key at the extreme bottom left, in the same way people use backspace in the other corner), and because when I'm using Ctrl I'm also often using Shift so I'm moving my hand anyways (if Ctrl was where caps lock is you'd still have to move your hand because Ctrl and Shift are both pinky keys and you don't have two left pinkies so you need to move your hand to use your left ring finger).

Third, I like that there's two shift keys, and that the right shift is where it should be rather than shift and Fn1 being switched. Some people don't touch type using both shift keys but I do and consider it a very important feature.

Fourth, the arrow keys are on IJKL rather than HJKL (I'm a Vim user by the way) or HHKB style. IJKL is the resting position for a right hand inverted-T so I consider this a plus. I generally put my arrows on the left-hand resting side, on ESDF (not WASD!), as I prefer that side. I also use ESDF for gaming.

Fifth, I like what they did with Page Up/Down and Home/End rather than making it a six pack. I do something sort of similar, but not quite the same. I put Home where they put PgUp (since home is to the left) and End where the put PgDn (since end is to the right) and then stack PgUp and PgDn on top of each other where they have Home and End.
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: zslane on Tue, 03 January 2017, 17:13:36
I see a layout that will drive users nuts trying to figure out how to put custom SA sets on it...
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: Tactile on Tue, 03 January 2017, 17:21:12
I guess my biggest complaint would be having the digits all in a row instead of a numeric keypad type layout. I'm good at getting used to almost any layout but I really wouldn't like that.

Backspace & delete both on the top layer? Seems like a wasted switch to me.
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: ArchDill on Tue, 03 January 2017, 17:26:19
I am really considering this. Not sure how I will like a 40% so this is the most affordable option to try it in my opinion.
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: Tom_Kazansky on Tue, 03 January 2017, 20:04:39
why is Capslock still there? I mean... it more useless than the long-ass spacebar.

now we have split-spacebar, that Capslock must be killed

EDIT: sorry, I have never used a 40%.
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: Twinguin on Tue, 03 January 2017, 22:30:10
I quite like it and will probably go for it - like 99.9%. Having used a Pok3r for a while, this smaller layout is a logical step for Vortex. Actually I have programmed my JD45 to have a similar layout.

I do like the IJKL for the arrow keys and having Pg*U*p/PgD*o*wn and *H*ome/E*n*d around it - works for me

I would put [] next to P and use the left part of the split space bar as Backspace/Del.
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: daerid on Wed, 04 January 2017, 00:58:35
Any kind of release date or pricing on this? Or did I miss something?
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: wodan on Wed, 04 January 2017, 02:00:48

First, split spacebar. Every keyboard should do this.


Oh yeah along with stock PBT SA DyeSub keycaps, a 5kg CNC aluminum case, bluetooth, USB-C,  stickered vintage MX Black switches, brass plate & weight insert and a ****ing laser that can shoot down the moon ...

Oh yeah an SNORTBAK-layout cause that's another one of my crazy hardcore enthusiast choices that seriously propose to unleash upon the public ...
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: dante on Wed, 04 January 2017, 08:27:58
Any kind of release date or pricing on this? Or did I miss something?

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/incoming.php
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: Tactile on Wed, 04 January 2017, 08:37:18
I'm assuming that the right half of the split spacebar is space. What does the left half do?
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: SBJ on Wed, 04 January 2017, 09:05:48
First, split spacebar. Every keyboard should do this.
Could I get you to elaborate as to why you think so?
I've never used a keyboard with a split spacebar so I don't know what advantages there are to it.
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: davkol on Wed, 04 January 2017, 09:21:22
First, split spacebar. Every keyboard should do this.
Could I get you to elaborate as to why you think so?
I've never used a keyboard with a split spacebar so I don't know what advantages there are to it.
Humans tend to have two relatively strong thumbs, that are severely underutilized on mainstream keyboards, whereas (short and weak) pinkies are heavily overloaded.
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: Tactile on Wed, 04 January 2017, 09:26:10
First, split spacebar. Every keyboard should do this.
Could I get you to elaborate as to why you think so?
I've never used a keyboard with a split spacebar so I don't know what advantages there are to it.

Most people just hit the spacebar on either the right or left side, never hitting the other side at all. That means you can use the other side of a split spacebar for something else you find handy. Some folks put backspace there because it's a more convenient spot than reaching up. I've seen some folks  program Enter in that spot, as well. There are no rules. You'd just program something there you find useful to hit without having to shift your hands, usually a key you use often.
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: hking0036 on Wed, 04 January 2017, 09:44:16

First, split spacebar. Every keyboard should do this.


Oh yeah along with stock PBT SA DyeSub keycaps, a 5kg CNC aluminum case, bluetooth, USB-C,  stickered vintage MX Black switches, brass plate & weight insert and a ****ing laser that can shoot down the moon ...

Oh yeah an SNORTBAK-layout cause that's another one of my crazy hardcore enthusiast choices that seriously propose to unleash upon the public ...
:))
The SNORTBAK comment nailed it. I'm interested to see 40% being made by keyboard companies rather than just as enthusiast projects, but personally they're a bit much for me. You don't gain much with the size decrease from 60% and you have to lay the layers on even thicker. Probably one of the things you just have to type on to wrap your head around, but I can't say I'm really sold.
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: dante on Wed, 04 January 2017, 11:43:19
What would be really cool is a DIP switch to turn the space bars into function keys.  You can still use space but will have likely do space+<some key> to do repeating spaces.

I'm probably not going to buy one but I'm still mildly interested in what the experience is like.
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 04 January 2017, 13:10:02
I'm in, as long as it has programmability similar to the pok3r.  I was going to get .01's new offering on massdrop, but have decided to get this instead.
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: leehwtsohg on Wed, 04 January 2017, 13:50:00
(I thought 13 keys at the top counts as a 45% keyboard...)
Cool! The more small keyboards come out the better!
I'd also drop the caps lock for tab, and the del is also not so important for me,
For me, the slash '/' key is important, so I'd like it to be easily accessible. Placement of cursor keys is pretty good. I prefer linear number layout to numpad. Where are the punctuation keys? '!@#$%^&*'?
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: dante on Thu, 12 January 2017, 13:15:54
Just a heads up: MechanicalKeyboards.com received a batch of Vortex Core's today.
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: falkentyne on Fri, 13 January 2017, 21:27:38
I find that very interesting as a toy and something you can carry around with a laptop.  But as a PC Gamer a 40% is completely useless to me.  I wouldn't even be able to deal with a 60%.  A TKL is the lowest I could go.  Full size keyboards are great as long as they are programmable (like duckies) because you can remap the number pad into macros and passwords or something (though I'd put that on a FN+key...wouldn't want it coming out on accident).
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: Twinguin on Tue, 17 January 2017, 17:09:34
Just unpacked mine and trying to get comfortable with the layout.  :cool:

First of all: the keycaps are awesome. First time DSA for me, but the feel of the PBT - I like it.  :thumb:

A few things, I noticed right away:
-Fn's only on the right side  :( - I use the left Fn on the Pok3r a lot (as someone mentioned, they are not new to DIP switches, sigh)
-Fn next to right-shift is kind of annoying
-Who needs CAPS LOCK? So I need to press WIN-Fn-Caps to jump between MacOS Apps
-Del and backspace next to each other? Couild have put Del on a Fn-layer.

I`m kind of torn about the "moved" keys: it has a logic to have /[]\ together, but having [] next to P is just a no-brainer for me.

I think I`ll start some programming ...
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 17 January 2017, 17:14:25
That split space bars is stabilized right ?
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: Twinguin on Tue, 17 January 2017, 17:19:58
That split space bars is stabilized right ?
The right one is (2.75u I guess). The left one (1.75u?) is not.
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: FrostyToast on Tue, 17 January 2017, 17:30:56
Those convex spacebars tell me that the caps are either made in-house or XDA profile; Either way, I really love the use of convex spacebars as it would be nicer on the fingers.
However, I can see some people disliking the use of a flat, spherical profile as it's probably the least popular profile for typing on.

Otherwise, I don't use a 40% layout so I can't say much for the design of it.
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 17 January 2017, 19:39:22
That split space bars is stabilized right ?
The right one is (2.75u I guess). The left one (1.75u?) is not.

Can't tell from the pictars
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: kmba on Tue, 17 January 2017, 21:18:48
Don't think I could do a 40% with a locked in layer. Wasted PN key, default caps, second ctrl and second alt in my opinion.
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: Twinguin on Tue, 17 January 2017, 21:48:40
Don't think I could do a 40% with a locked in layer. Wasted PN key, default caps, second ctrl and second alt in my opinion.
Well, you've got three layers you can freely programme, even can reprogramme the Pn key on those. What's more annoying, the two space bars are always one key.
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: dante on Tue, 17 January 2017, 21:55:55
Massdrop is currently running a drop for these.  So far 84 sold out of the 440 limit with 9 days left.  It's selling a lot better than I thought it would!
Title: Re: 40%er's: What do you think of the Vortex Core's stock layout?
Post by: jabar on Tue, 17 January 2017, 22:15:46
Massdrop is currently running a drop for these.  So far 84 sold out of the 440 limit with 9 days left.  It's selling a lot better than I thought it would!
Just a slight ~$15 discount (incl. shipping) over MK.com and an estimated shipment of mid-March. Nah.

Looks nice, although I haven't used anything under a TKL in a long time...