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geekhack Community => New Members => Topic started by: StewLG on Thu, 26 January 2017, 02:45:07

Title: Programmer looking for guidance
Post by: StewLG on Thu, 26 January 2017, 02:45:07: I came to mechanical keyboards early; the first expensive keyboard I ever bought was a used Model M for a friend in the 80s, and I drove as a teenager a hour to buy it. Later I discovered Northgate, and had two of them, an OmniKey Ultra and a Northgate Omnikey 101 for backup. (I can't reconstruct the cronology without active research, but my memory is I stockpiled another backup keyboard when the company started to disappear/decline. Northgate scholars can set me straight on this if they feel the urge.)

I used these for at least a decade, one at work and one at home, and when the things finally wore out I was in that sad saddle between the start of PCs and now, when mechanical keyboards were a lost art, and me talking about the superiority of Alps keyswitches fell on indifferent ears. I should thank all the gamers who have rekindled the marketplace for these things, as well as the patent office for letting the Cherry patent expire, unlike the infinite copyright on Mickey Mouse.

For years I've run the same keyboard at home and at work, a Dell SK-8115. It's an adequate membrane I suppose, but I've started to have problems with one, and when I started to look for a replacement I found mechanicals again.

I've started looking again for a keyboard for home and work. The criteria are different for each. So it has been strange to find so much choice available - daunting, really. Layout is simple - I understand my preferences quite well. I'm a Windows-based programmer, so having function keys is absolutely mandatory. In addition, I'm well used to the arrows and home/end/pgup/pgdn etc, and they are in constant use. So I'm looking at either a standard keyboard, or possibly a TKL if I'm feeling daring. But choosing a switch type is a lot more difficult.

I started by buying an inexpensive full-sized gamer keyboard just to get my feet wet, a MechanicalEagle Z-88 for $55. It has Outemu blue switches, a full RGB backlight, a metal deck, and a hideously gamery font.

I would provide a link to the exact model I bought, but it has now disappeared from the Amazon seller GranVela, despite me having bought it less than a week ago. I believe this is the same model however, from a different OEM/manufacturer, branded by X-Falcon. Impossible to be sure with China however:

https://www.amazon.com/E-Element-Water-Proof-Mechanical-Keyboard-Anti-Ghost/dp/B01FXBZXFC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1485417553&sr=8-1&keywords=z-88+mechanical+keyboard

I know most of you are beyond such coarse tools, but if you really only have $50 this is a serious step up from a membrane. I'm not stopping here, but I think there'd be no shame if someone did. It even came with multiple spare switches and multiple keypullers; I haven't seen any of the $150+ manufacturers do something that classy. You can even hot-swap the switches apparently.

Next, I bought a WASD Cherry MX tester. Having come from Alps, I currently prefer clicky, if only because I spent so many years training myself that was how a decent keyboard behaved. I like the Outemu blues well enough, but when I put one into the tester next to a Cherry Blue, I find the feel to be very close, but the Cherry Blue is definitely quieter. So I expect I would like Cherry Blues for a home keyboard, and would appreciate something a bit quieter. My wife likes clicky, and so far I haven't bothered her with the noise, but I'd still like to tone it down from the Outemus.

For home, I have been considering a touch of gamer aesthetic - I confess to liking the RGB back lighting in the Z-88, not so much for the effects or gaming, but for the ability to set a particular backlight color shade for the whole board. So I've been looking at the Ducky Shine 5 or the Mechanical Keyboards Disco TKL as the best I can find in this style. I really dislike all the logo'd spacebars in the Ducky/MechanicalKeyboards, but I'm assuming they can be replaced. But I won't be gaming with the keyboard, or at least don't care about performance when I do.

The work keyboard is the one I'm having the most trouble with. I'm in a open plan office with 20 other programmers that's reasonably quiet, and I expect I would annoy people with a very clicky keyboard. So I think the blues are out. Also, a gamer-y keyboard will stand out like a sore thumb, so I'm looking for a very conservative, traditional keyboard. The one I like the most is the WASD Code 104. I'm just torn about Brown Cherry or Clear Cherry. I have gone back and forth on the tester and I just can't decide which I'll like more. It would not be the end of the world if I bought both models and returned one. Or should I just tempt fate and try bringing in a blue switch board? Will I be lynched?

If any other programmers have something to contribute - if only sympathy - I'd like to hear from them.
Title: Re: Programmer looking for guidance
Post by: swangful on Sun, 29 January 2017, 19:09:54: puts "Welcome!"

Not a dev, but qa eng.

Our office has tons and tons of MK users. We have people using blues, browns, just about every kind. Noise wise, it is quite nice to hear everyone clacking away. I'm not sure how your office is, but since its "quiet" then blues may be a problem. You could always get browns, a tactile bump...but no click. The amount of noise can also differ with what kind of case you have, key caps, typing habit, bottoming out, etc.

There are a ton of great TLK boards, I'm no expert in them so I won't chime in there. I prefer a smaller board like a TADA68, white fox, or any other 60% keyboard. They have layers that can be macro'd to any key you wish. Less hand travel, so it really makes life easier once you get used to it. If you are open to that idea there are a lot of options for RGB 60% boards. Pok3r being a really accessible one.

I think you should try bringing in your z88 to work and see if people are really bothered by the noise. If not, get your blues. Blues are amazing to type on. Really makes me feel like im cranking out code. :P
Title: Re: Programmer looking for guidance
Post by: StewLG on Sun, 29 January 2017, 21:17:11: Quote
There are a ton of great TLK boards, I'm no expert in them so I won't chime in there. I prefer a smaller board like a TADA68, white fox, or any other 60% keyboard. They have layers that can be macro'd to any key you wish. Less hand travel, so it really makes life easier once you get used to it. If you are open to that idea there are a lot of options for RGB 60% boards. Pok3r being a really accessible one.

I certainly love the look of these small boards, but I really need the function keys, home cluster, and arrows where I am accustomed to having them. Also, at work we frequently work together at a single station, which means I need to have a 100% standard keyboard so I don't make people crazy. Even though I'm open to TKL at home, at work it's got to be totally standard 104 to agree with everyone else. As it is, the people with ergonomic setups all have a second keyboard and mouse connected for guests (which gives me an idea for where to locate runner-up keyboards like I expect the Z-88 will turn out to be.) If I worked entirely by myself, I might contemplate trying a 60% board. Since I do have a day job, I can't handle moving between alternate layouts twice a day.

I have a Mechanical Keyboards Disco w/ KBT Brown switches on its way to me now; people describe it as a Ducky Shine 5 TKL, to which I'd add with a decent font.. I'll get some idea from this if I like/can handle brown switches.

Whatever keyboard I attempt to bring in, I'm going to let my team know I'm planning on doing it and that they all have a veto. If I had special ergonomic needs I'd play that card happily, but if I'm being honest I don't currently - just a preference. We have a move coming up where we'll be going to another building, and I may try to introduce mechanical keyboards then, when everything is in flux and nobody is accustomed to any particular noise level yet.
Title: Re: Programmer looking for guidance
Post by: swangful on Sun, 29 January 2017, 21:27:57: Quote from: StewLG on Sun, 29 January 2017, 21:17:11
Quote
There are a ton of great TLK boards, I'm no expert in them so I won't chime in there. I prefer a smaller board like a TADA68, white fox, or any other 60% keyboard. They have layers that can be macro'd to any key you wish. Less hand travel, so it really makes life easier once you get used to it. If you are open to that idea there are a lot of options for RGB 60% boards. Pok3r being a really accessible one.

I certainly love the look of these small boards, but I really need the function keys, home cluster, and arrows where I am accustomed to having them. Also, at work we frequently work together at a single station, which means I need to have a 100% standard keyboard so I don't make people crazy. Even though I'm open to TKL at home, at work it's got to be totally standard 104 to agree with everyone else. As it is, the people with ergonomic setups all have a second keyboard and mouse connected for guests (which gives me an idea for where to locate runner-up keyboards like I expect the Z-88 will turn out to be.) If I worked entirely by myself, I might contemplate trying a 60% board. Since I do have a day job, I can't handle moving between alternate layouts twice a day.

I have a Mechanical Keyboards Disco w/ KBT Brown switches on its way to me now; people describe it as a Ducky Shine 5 TKL, to which I'd add with a decent font.. I'll get some idea from this if I like/can handle brown switches.

Whatever keyboard I attempt to bring in, I'm going to let my team know I'm planning on doing it and that they all have a veto. If I had special ergonomic needs I'd play that card happily, but if I'm being honest I don't currently - just a preference. We have a move coming up where we'll be going to another building, and I may try to introduce mechanical keyboards then, when everything is in flux and nobody is accustomed to any particular noise level yet.

Yeah the Disco looks good! You could always replace the keycaps with a GMK set or anything else from PMK. I personally use DSA profile since I came from a really low profile keyboard prior and am used to the flat layout. I find it helps with my posture and form.

Really interesting that no one has a MK. It really is a world of difference. The biggest reason for me to get one was when one dev told me... "If you were a mechanic, you would buy the best tools since you use them daily. Why would you cheap out on your 'tools of the trade' and not get a MK?" It just made a lot more sense to me after that. You can tell that to your fellow devs :P
Title: Re: Programmer looking for guidance
Post by: snarfbot on Mon, 30 January 2017, 20:00:18: i have 2 of these e-element boards, i am returning the first one because it had some cosmetic damage, but it works fine and is still pretty nice.

the first one is the z77, its got a metal mounting plate that makes it sound really loud though. the new one is also called the z88 strangely but its also a compact model. it feels like its got a plastic plate and its much quieter. no difference in key feel between the two, they feel really nice though, i like these switches, one is just way louder than the other. im thinking of adding some sound deadening material inside the case as well.

old: https://www.amazon.com/MechanicalEagle-Multicolor-Mechanical-Keyboard-Replaceable/dp/B01DBVGZSA?th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/MechanicalEagle-Multicolor-Mechanical-Keyboard-Replaceable/dp/B01DBVGZSA?th=1)
new: https://www.amazon.com/E-Element-Mechanical-Keyboard-Multicolor-Backlit/dp/B01FXF7HFC/ref=lp_14512134011_1_2?srs=14512134011&ie=UTF8&qid=1485826574&sr=8-2 (https://www.amazon.com/E-Element-Mechanical-Keyboard-Multicolor-Backlit/dp/B01FXF7HFC/ref=lp_14512134011_1_2?srs=14512134011&ie=UTF8&qid=1485826574&sr=8-2)

i think alot of the noise is due to how the kb is constructed, because the switches themselves arent very noisy when you click them in your hand.

this is the switch mine came with btw, i havent seen much about them here or on deskthority, there are a couple models of outemu blues as far as i can tell. (http://i.imgur.com/FHE8Ong.jpg) are yours the same?
Title: Re: Programmer looking for guidance
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 02 February 2017, 12:36:45: Quote from: snarfbot on Mon, 30 January 2017, 20:00:18
i have 2 of these e-element boards, i am returning the first one because it had some cosmetic damage, but it works fine and is still pretty nice.

the first one is the z77, its got a metal mounting plate that makes it sound really loud though. the new one is also called the z88 strangely but its also a compact model. it feels like its got a plastic plate and its much quieter. no difference in key feel between the two, they feel really nice though, i like these switches, one is just way louder than the other. im thinking of adding some sound deadening material inside the case as well.

old: https://www.amazon.com/MechanicalEagle-Multicolor-Mechanical-Keyboard-Replaceable/dp/B01DBVGZSA?th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/MechanicalEagle-Multicolor-Mechanical-Keyboard-Replaceable/dp/B01DBVGZSA?th=1)
new: https://www.amazon.com/E-Element-Mechanical-Keyboard-Multicolor-Backlit/dp/B01FXF7HFC/ref=lp_14512134011_1_2?srs=14512134011&ie=UTF8&qid=1485826574&sr=8-2 (https://www.amazon.com/E-Element-Mechanical-Keyboard-Multicolor-Backlit/dp/B01FXF7HFC/ref=lp_14512134011_1_2?srs=14512134011&ie=UTF8&qid=1485826574&sr=8-2)

i think alot of the noise is due to how the kb is constructed, because the switches themselves arent very noisy when you click them in your hand.

this is the switch mine came with btw, i havent seen much about them here or on deskthority, there are a couple models of outemu blues as far as i can tell.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/FHE8Ong.jpg)
are yours the same?

Damn, it's like the designer went out of their way to block the use of artisan keycaps :(