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geekhack Community => Other Geeky Stuff => Topic started by: salcan on Tue, 02 February 2010, 13:35:22

Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: salcan on Tue, 02 February 2010, 13:35:22
Hey all, I thought you guys might like some pictures of the isolated keyboard on the new ThinkPad Edge. It's a pretty big move for Lenovo to change the ThinkPad keyboard, even if this isn't affecting the R/T/X/W models...

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7676&stc=1&d=1265139074)

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7677&stc=1&d=1265139074)

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7678&stc=1&d=1265139074)

I have to say, I like it more than I thought I would.

Also, the Fn and Ctrl keys are now swappable in BIOS.
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 02 February 2010, 13:42:23
I don't get why Lenovo don't do away with the touchpad on the compact models... On the other hand, with the move to widescreen format, they aren't as space restricted as they used to be.
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: kishy on Tue, 02 February 2010, 13:47:21
Gotta wonder if at any point we'll be seeing trackpads to one or both sides (left/right, that is) of the keyboard...I would find it interesting, with ergonomics similar to an M5-2 I suppose, and for a lap-supported computer that makes more sense than below the keyboard.
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 02 February 2010, 13:53:31
Quote from: ripster;155659
Windows dome is pretty shallow, wonder how Microsoft let them get away with that?


There's also no "Useless key". Be afraid, be very afraid.
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 02 February 2010, 14:02:22
Quote from: ch_123;155657
I don't get why Lenovo don't do away with the touchpad on the compact models...

I understand the reasoning of this statement, but really, outside us geeks, I honestly don't know anyone who likes Touchpoints.  If they dropped the Wackpad, they would lose a ton of business.
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 02 February 2010, 14:04:12
Quote from: ripster;155659
Windows dome is pretty shallow, wonder how Microsoft let them get away with that?

The new Dell Latitudes are like that, too.  I guess they have a different set of criteria for laptop keyboards.
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: elservo on Tue, 02 February 2010, 14:14:45
Always hated the touchpoints.  Would accidentally tap the one on my old Dell while typing and it would move my cursor.  Had to change settings to get it not to work while typing when it seemed like that should have been off by default.
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 02 February 2010, 14:34:42
Quote from: itlnstln;155666
I understand the reasoning of this statement, but really, outside us geeks, I honestly don't know anyone who likes Touchpoints.  If they dropped the Wackpad, they would lose a ton of business.


My worry is that they'll drop the Trackpoint eventually. It's sad how people refuse superior solutions because it has a learning curve, or settle for an attitude of 'x works for me'. The market suffers from lack of innovation, or even worse; 'innovation' based on bad designs... A certain Cupertino-based company who makes laptops with touchpads the size of a football field comes to mind...
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: hyperlinked on Tue, 02 February 2010, 15:46:16
Quote from: salcan;155656
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7676&stc=1&d=1265139074)

Oooh! I'm not a huge fan of chiclet keys, but I've learned that they're really not bad once you get used to it and I like the look of those curved chiclet keys... do they feel any different to type on than the square chiclets? How does it feel to type on in general?

That's cool that they're keeping some tie in the IBM tradition. I don't own a Thinkpad, but I've always liked them. I like the idea of having both a trackpoint and a trackpad.

I'm not sure why a large trackpad is a bad thing. Did I miss something?
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: elservo on Tue, 02 February 2010, 17:00:44
The trackpads on Thinkpads are amazing.  Love their texture and sensitivity.  

I guess I should say "that's what she said," but I'm refusing to do it.
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: kishy on Tue, 02 February 2010, 17:18:58
Wow, I thought I had a good idea and I got NOTHING...not even a "your idea is terrible".

That's gotta be a new one around here...
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: salcan on Tue, 02 February 2010, 17:30:48
Quote from: ch_123;155690
My worry is that they'll drop the Trackpoint eventually.

Arimasa Naitoh, a thinkpad bigwig, has made it pretty clear that the trackpoint is here to stay.

@hyperlinked: The feel pretty nice. The key action is close that of the standard thinkpad, but you now have slightly cupped keys which is interesting. You don't have the beveled areas between the keys, so there really isn't any place for dust junk to collect either. I still think the X300 has the best feeling keyboard of any recent ThinkPads, but for a first shot and an isolated keyboard I think Lenovo nailed it.

As for the big trackapad, I can't speak for anyone else, but I was accidentally brushing it a lot with my hand. I disabled it and only use the trackpoint now.
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: D-EJ915 on Tue, 02 February 2010, 20:38:00
eraserheads are the best pointers on craptops =3
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: hyperlinked on Tue, 02 February 2010, 21:45:37
Quote from: salcan;155739
@hyperlinked: The feel pretty nice. The key action is close that of the standard thinkpad, but you now have slightly cupped keys which is interesting.

Ah, I thought it looked slightly cupped. I thought it was just an optical illusion from the curved keys. I want to try one of these guys out. Now that I'm not a complete chiclet hater anymore, I wonder if a slight cup would be what really feels missing from chiclet style keys.

Quote from: salcan;155739
As for the big trackapad, I can't speak for anyone else, but I was accidentally brushing it a lot with my hand. I disabled it and only use the trackpoint now.

The trackpads on the latest line of MacBookPro laptops work very very well. I'm usually one of those people who constantly creates accidental inputs by brushing the pad while typing, but that hasn't happened even once in the two months I've had a new MBP... not that I use it all that often though. My wife gets to use it most of the time and I only pick it up when I'm going to go crazy in the office or I have to take a trip.
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: Xuan on Tue, 02 February 2010, 21:55:38
Those're bad news, thinkpads keyboard where maintaining most of the quality over the years.
The layout was the best, and the few changes (bigger esc and delete) the introduce recently where nice, but this is total crap.

* Print screen?
* PgUp/Dwn Home/End block
* Fx keys need Fn modificator

And the flatness... :nono:
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: In Stereo! on Thu, 04 February 2010, 03:09:30
Wait,
what?

Why then not have like no bazel at all?
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 04 February 2010, 03:56:40
Quote from: Xuan;155796

* Fx keys need Fn modificator


Im pretty sure that can be changed in the BIOS.
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: kishy on Thu, 04 February 2010, 05:42:42
Quote from: ripster;156126
Dang, Kishy, maybe it wasn't a terrible idea.

Apple patents smart screen bezels. (http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/03/apple-gets-a-patent-on-smart-screen-bezels/)


...but Apple's version of it is pretty stupid. While holding the iFail, one would have their thumb right on that edge.

In what I proposed with a traditional trackpad beside the keyboard, the ergonomics of the laptop are improved AND the trackpad is moved out of the way such that you can't accidentally rest any part of your hand on it unless you're using the computer sideways.
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: hyperlinked on Thu, 18 February 2010, 08:37:54
Well, I got to try out the Thinkpad Edge when I went to go get a new monitor at Fry's Electronics. I didn't like the keyboard as much as I thought I would. I didn't like the trackpoint's feel as much as I thought I would either. The trackpoint felt cheap and though the slightly sculpted keys were a nice touch, they were barely perceptible and they didn't make up for the loose feel of the keypresses. It reminded me a lot of the first generation MacBook chiclet keyboards. I hated those. These looked nicer, but reminded me of that feel.

On the plus side, it's a very nice looking laptop.
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: Manyak on Thu, 18 February 2010, 08:53:15
They already have dropped the touchpad on some models. Just look at the X series (except the X301).
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: TexasFlood on Thu, 18 February 2010, 22:45:28
Quote from: ripster;155761
I didn't see that the keys were cupped - they look flat as a ruler in the pics.

Pretty sure I see some cupping in the bottom picture above.  The cupping on the thinkpad keyboard I'm typing on very noticeable from many angles, but it's there.
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: TexasFlood on Thu, 18 February 2010, 23:07:45
Quote from: Xuan;155796
Those're bad news, thinkpads keyboard where maintaining most of the quality over the years.
The layout was the best, and the few changes (bigger esc and delete) the introduce recently where nice, but this is total crap.

* Print screen?
* PgUp/Dwn Home/End block
* Fx keys need Fn modificator

And the flatness... :nono:

I suspect that it isn't any flatter than the thinkpad keyboard I'm typing on right now.  I admit to being a bit thrown by the redesign of the PgUp/Dwn Home/End block but I might be able to get used to it, I've seen worse.  Print screen is sure in an odd position but maybe I could adjust.  I also don't see Pause/Break.  Unless some of these keys have alternate ways to access them and perhaps keys like the function keys can be reconfigured, could be a struggle.  But I bet it feels good either way.  Could always plug in an external keyboard (http://lenovoblogs.com/designmatters/?p=2364), but shouldn't have to.
Title: Re: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: HaaTa on Fri, 19 February 2010, 00:33:00
I tried the keyboard out while I was killing time in Sapporo (I went cheap that night, slept in a Mcdonalds. Definitely not recommended, but doable as McDonalds is the Timmy's of Japan).

Its definitely one of the nicest laptop keyboards I've typed on. The cupped keys feel a lot better than the typical flat ones for chiclet boards.
Title: ThinkPad Edge 13 Keyboard
Post by: hyperlinked on Fri, 19 February 2010, 02:39:09
BTW, this flatter keyboard so far is only replacing the keyboard on their 13" ThinkPad Edge line. The other models still seem to be going with their old style of keyboard... at least for now.