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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: pixelpusher on Fri, 10 March 2017, 15:32:31

Title: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 10 March 2017, 15:32:31
A little bit click-baity title, but I needed attention.  Has anyone noticed this??  I basically can't use 4 keyboards after noticing  :mad:

So, upside down switches are often used in per key backlit boards to place LEDs at the top to best illuminate legends.

But did you know that R3 GMK keycaps (the row with caps lock, a, s, d, etc...) make incorrect contact on these switches and don't allow the key to properly bottom out!?

Yep, that's right.

Row 3 cherry profile (GMK) keycaps DO NOT FIT PROPERLY on Cherry MX switches (and possible all clones) when the switches are rotated for North LED placement (logo upside down)!  AND NO, IT'S NOT THE LED

I bought a Cooler Master TKL (Rapid-i) with MX blues on the cheap. I planned to change out the switches put it in a CNC aluminum case.  I received the board today and started putting my GMK Dolch set on it to see how nice they will look and feel.

I had this Dolch set on another Cooler Master board with MX brown switches.  I was transferring the caps from the brown MX board to the new blue MX board. I started with the left modifier column and noticed that the caps lock key didn't sound right when it bottomed out.  I wasn't getting the clack as on the other switches.  Hmm...that's weird.  I swapped the OEM caps back on it, seems fine.  I put the caps lock cap back on the old keyboard and it sounded fine there too. Well, probably a weird keycap or switch, right?  So I try the "A" key.  Same result.  "S" key.  Same.  OMG... IT'S THE WHOLE ROW!

I found it strange that it wasn't happening on one board but it was on the other.  What was the difference??

The difference was the new board had rotated switches for backlighting, so that the LEDs faced North.  I thought, "Oh, I know exactly what this is... the led is hitting the keycap.  Silly OEM manufacturer using 3mm leds instead of 1.8."  I knew this was an issue because I had experienced it when adding LEDs to keyboards in the past.  So, I promptly desoldered the LED and tried it again.  WHAT??!!! It still didn't clack!

I quickly got paranoid about my other boards.  I grabbed my S60-x and went to R3.  All clacky.  hmm... but wait, that board has South facing LEDs.  I grabbed a pok3r.  OMG, they're muted.  I grabbed a Masterkeys Pro... R3... all muted.  What about my Filco?  clack.  Guess what?  South facing LED holes.

So, I have confirmed with 4 keyboards I have (all with Cherry MX switches and GMK keycaps), that R3 keys are not fully compatible.  Yeah, they work, but not like they're supposed to.  It's like learning what stabilizers SHOULD feel like and never being able to go back to the old mushy/rattly ones. 

I have to experiment more with some Gateron switches and see if I get the same result.  I tried really quick before I left and I think it wasn't an issue with the Gateron black switches I had. But, I'll have to get a few on the board side by side to see for sure.

Also, I tried the R3 caps upside down and they clack properly.

Tonight I will try more Gateron switches and also some EnjoyPBT cherry profile to see if it's limited to GMK.

**** guys.  I'm really mad I discovered this.
Title: Re: HELP! Something wrong with all Cherry switches or GMK sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: Puddsy on Fri, 10 March 2017, 15:36:30
I think you're just crazy. I've been using GMK for years on boards of all sorts and have never noticed any sound difference aside from alphas/mods.
Title: Re: HELP! Something wrong with all Cherry switches or GMK sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 10 March 2017, 15:48:36
I think you're just crazy. I've been using GMK for years on boards of all sorts and have never noticed any sound difference aside from alphas/mods.

Maybe I should make a video for sound comparison?  Are you sure you've tried the caps lock row with upside down switches?
Title: Re: HELP! Something wrong with all Cherry switches or GMK sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: Tactile on Fri, 10 March 2017, 15:53:18
This has been discussed in the past (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=83570).
Title: Re: HELP! Something wrong with all Cherry switches or GMK sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 10 March 2017, 15:59:52
This has been discussed in the past (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=83570).

Okay good. I'm not insane.  So does this apply to gateron switches?   I'm fine with swapping out the cherry switches on the 4 boards if I need. 
Title: Re: HELP! Something wrong with all Cherry switches or GMK sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: Puddsy on Fri, 10 March 2017, 16:04:27
I think you're just crazy. I've been using GMK for years on boards of all sorts and have never noticed any sound difference aside from alphas/mods.

Maybe I should make a video for sound comparison?  Are you sure you've tried the caps lock row with upside down switches?

My whole LZ is upsidedown switches.
Title: Re: HELP! Something wrong with all Cherry switches or GMK sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: ComandaPanda on Fri, 10 March 2017, 16:06:56
Ive had the same issue also, i avoid all boards with upsidedown switches because of it.  Gateron has the same problem also.
Title: Re: HELP! Something wrong with all Cherry switches or GMK sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 10 March 2017, 16:09:28
I think you're just crazy. I've been using GMK for years on boards of all sorts and have never noticed any sound difference aside from alphas/mods.

Maybe I should make a video for sound comparison?  Are you sure you've tried the caps lock row with upside down switches?

My whole LZ is upsidedown switches.

I'm guess that we are both telling the truth, so that means the issue is not persistent across all switches or GMK sets.  I can say that all of my GMK sets have been produced in the past 2 years and the switches all within the past 4.
Title: Re: HELP! Something wrong with all Cherry switches or GMK sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 10 March 2017, 16:11:10
Ive had the same issue also, i avoid all boards with upsidedown switches because of it.  Gateron has the same problem also.

Well this is horrible news.  I was just planning to build a new board this weekend with pandas.  There's no way I'm going to put nice switches on a board knowing that this will be an issue with GMK sets.  Looks like I'm going to have to hunt down a different PCB.  I have several DSA sets that can go on most of these boards, but I had special plans for a GMK set with this new build.  Boo.
Title: Re: HELP! Something wrong with all Cherry switches or GMK sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: ComandaPanda on Fri, 10 March 2017, 16:20:20
Ive had the same issue also, i avoid all boards with upsidedown switches because of it.  Gateron has the same problem also.

Well this is horrible news.  I was just planning to build a new board this weekend with pandas.  There's no way I'm going to put nice switches on a board knowing that this will be an issue with GMK sets.  Looks like I'm going to have to hunt down a different PCB.  I have several DSA sets that can go on most of these boards, but I had special plans for a GMK set with this new build.  Boo.

Yeah for sure grab a new PCB, boards with upsidedown switches are just not meant for Cherry profile caps. All Cherry profile caps have the issue also, not only GMK, ive tested OG, BSP and EnjoyPBT and all hit the housing.
Title: Re: HELP! Something wrong with all Cherry switches or GMK sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 10 March 2017, 16:34:19
Ive had the same issue also, i avoid all boards with upsidedown switches because of it.  Gateron has the same problem also.

Well this is horrible news.  I was just planning to build a new board this weekend with pandas.  There's no way I'm going to put nice switches on a board knowing that this will be an issue with GMK sets.  Looks like I'm going to have to hunt down a different PCB.  I have several DSA sets that can go on most of these boards, but I had special plans for a GMK set with this new build.  Boo.

Yeah for sure grab a new PCB, boards with upsidedown switches are just not meant for Cherry profile caps. All Cherry profile caps have the issue also, not only GMK, ive tested OG, BSP and EnjoyPBT and all hit the housing.

Hmm, I never realized it, but I don't think there are any 60% PCBs out there with LED support that have south facing leds.  My S60-x does, but it has underglow and I'm not looking to pay extra for underglow that won't be seen :(

EDIT - FaceW PCBs do, but why are they so darn expensive??!
Title: Re: HELP! Something wrong with all Cherry switches or GMK sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: ComandaPanda on Fri, 10 March 2017, 16:37:10
Theres a few, sounds like FaceW is what your looking for has south facing LEDs and no underglow.  Nerd60 is good also.

If you think FaceW is expensive search on aliexpress for Bface and they have a model called "bface southern" for 33$ shipped.
Title: Re: HELP! Something wrong with all Cherry switches or GMK sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 10 March 2017, 16:46:21
Thanks for the help.  The crap news is that I have over a thousand dollars worth of keyboards and keycaps that are going to have to be evaluated and sold off.  And more coming to me down the road from group buys that are going to have to be dealt with.  I really can't imagine why no one has made a bigger deal of this. It's definitely an issue.
Title: Re: HELP! Something wrong with all Cherry switches or GMK sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: ComandaPanda on Fri, 10 March 2017, 17:01:11
Anytime i went through the same problem and ended up having to sell a lot my old boards too, only thing to do is sell them unfortunately.  For OEM boards i only buy Cherry G80 3000, Leopold and Filco now, all are great for Cherry profile, and for 60% custom i always stick with the FaceW and Nerd60.  I wish there was an official list of all boards with southern facing LED.
Title: Re: HELP! Something wrong with all Cherry switches or GMK sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: Tactile on Fri, 10 March 2017, 17:04:19
I'd just like to point out that Topre keyboards don't have this problem.  :p
Title: Re: HELP! Something wrong with all Cherry switches or GMK sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: orpheo on Fri, 10 March 2017, 20:27:40
You have or limited access to nice Cherries keycaps on topre though.
Title: Re: HELP! Something wrong with all Cherry switches or GMK sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: happylacquer on Fri, 10 March 2017, 21:14:55
I'd just like to point out that Topre keyboards don't have this problem.  :p

Or buckling switch....

Throw MX style switches in the TRASH!
Title: Re: HELP! Something wrong with all Cherry switches or GMK sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: orpheo on Fri, 10 March 2017, 21:19:36
Title of this thread should be, is there something wrong with all those North led cherry mx keyboard?

Blaming the switches is very closed minded when it is obviously the aftermarket keyboards makers who were wrong!
Title: Re: HELP! Something wrong with all Cherry switches or GMK sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 10 March 2017, 21:36:54
Title of this thread should be, is there something wrong with all those North led cherry mx keyboard?

Blaming the switches is very closed minded when it is obviously the aftermarket keyboards makers who were wrong!

There I changed it.  I still find it odd that this is a thing but more people don't talk about it.  This would effect all builds using gh60 Satan boards as well as pretty much every off the shelf backlit mx based board out there (poker,v60, v80, all cooler master led boards, etc).  I guess I'm just too picky. But when it's my hobby and I'm doing it to make beautiful and fascinating keyboards, I just can't accept an entire row feeling and sounding differently. Now that I noticed it, I can't stand it. 

I've removed all GMK sets from my boards except my s60-x.  They'll have to be for DSA now and I will have to start sourcing parts to accommodate or start selling stuff off

Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: Delirious on Fri, 10 March 2017, 21:53:55
pretty sure it's the LEDs that interfere with bottoming out. The housing on the leaf-contact side is fatter and if there would ever be any interference, the leaf-contact side is more likely to experience that.

(http://i.imgur.com/5MAvdvF.gif]http://i.imgur.com/5MAvdvF.gif)

Just buy yourself 2x3x4 leds and put them inside the switches. But hey, if you're so determined on getting rid of GMK caps, I'm sure other people will appreciate them
(http://i.imgur.com/7lBmyZQ.jpg?2)
(http://i.imgur.com/PbYuaOk.jpg?2)
(http://i.imgur.com/KHh5Uj0.jpg?2)
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 10 March 2017, 22:04:55
pretty sure it's the LEDs that interfere with bottoming out. The housing on the leaf-contact side is fatter and if there would ever be any interference, the leaf-contact side is more likely to experience that.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/5MAvdvF.gif]http://i.imgur.com/5MAvdvF.gif)


Just buy yourself 2x3x4 leds and put them inside the switches. But hey, if you're so determined on getting rid of GMK caps, I'm sure other people will appreciate them
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/7lBmyZQ.jpg?2)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/PbYuaOk.jpg?2)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/KHh5Uj0.jpg?2)


That was the first thing i tried.  It didnt help.   It's easiest to see what is happening with an LED free Gateron (or other clear top switch) in hand.  Put a R3 Cherry profile cap on it and look at it from underneath.  You'll see that in the proper orientation it just slightly clears all around.  However, if you flip the switch upside down, it's a different story.  I'm not sure if it is the cross bar support on the cap or the housing of the switch or both, but it appears to me that the housing just barely touches the bottom edge (wall) of the keycap in this position.  Look  at the Gateron yellow you posted from the side.  You'll see that the end with the LED cutout slopes down immediately.  However, the opposite side (the one with the leaf spring) plateaus out for a while before sloping.  I think it's this extra material that is making contact on the very short R3 cherry profile caps.  I mean, it's a slight thing... but it's there.  It very much like finding out that your stablizers need clipping.  Before you even heard about it, you were sure everything was fine.  After you FEEL a clipped stabilizer, you realize it was terrible and you can't live with anything like it again.  Ha, I say this as I desolder switches in a Cooler Master board to fix the ****ty stabilizers.

Anyway TLDR: the very first thing I tried was removing the LED.  It didn't help.
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: opensecret on Fri, 10 March 2017, 23:04:57
I'm not sure I fully get the physics here, but I'm wondering if o-rings would "solve" this problem by reducing travel on all keys before they hit whatever barrier they're running into.
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: orpheo on Sat, 11 March 2017, 00:28:12
I have Satan build and will look for that! But really it never ever bothered me or I'm not sensitive to it. Have to get back from Bangkok to test this!
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 20 April 2017, 11:24:14
I have fixed all of my issues by selling stuff and buying stuff. 

I've ditched the Satan board for a NERD 60 and I've ended up with Pulse and Chocolatier on my Coolermaster Boards.  (Yeah, a nice compromise)

So, I don't have any GMK sets on upside down switches anymore, and all is well.  However, I recently trudged over to Massdrop to see the KBD66 with upside down switches and I can't seem to convince anyone there that there is a small compatiblity issue.

Anyone else that can help me point to a thread with more evidence?  Anyone else want to speak up about the stupidity of these upside down switches.  I'm not conjuring up this evidence.  I have personally felt and heard the issue.  I can't imagine that others don't notice it.

I should probably just keep my mouth shut, but I would hate for someone to spend all of their money to get a sub-optimal mech experience :)
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: eksuen on Thu, 20 April 2017, 12:06:28
I have fixed all of my issues by selling stuff and buying stuff. 

I've ditched the Satan board for a NERD 60 and I've ended up with Pulse and Chocolatier on my Coolermaster Boards.  (Yeah, a nice compromise)

So, I don't have any GMK sets on upside down switches anymore, and all is well.  However, I recently trudged over to Massdrop to see the KBD66 with upside down switches and I can't seem to convince anyone there that there is a small compatiblity issue.

Anyone else that can help me point to a thread with more evidence?  Anyone else want to speak up about the stupidity of these upside down switches.  I'm not conjuring up this evidence.  I have personally felt and heard the issue.  I can't imagine that others don't notice it.

I should probably just keep my mouth shut, but I would hate for someone to spend all of their money to get a sub-optimal mech experience :)

I've personally never had any issues. Different people have different sensitivity to these kinds of "issues". Maybe a lot of people don't notice and ignorance will be their bliss. Maybe a lot of people think the difference is insignificant and simply don't care. I don't think it's quite fair for you to determine what is a sub-optimal mech experience for other people. My concern is the type of behavior that tends to take root in MD drop discussions. A couple people will post about their negative experience and everybody starts freaking out without considering, willfully or negligently, that the vocal ones are usually in the minority. I think it gives a lot of products a bad rap, and unnecessarily so.
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 20 April 2017, 12:33:34
I have fixed all of my issues by selling stuff and buying stuff. 

I've ditched the Satan board for a NERD 60 and I've ended up with Pulse and Chocolatier on my Coolermaster Boards.  (Yeah, a nice compromise)

So, I don't have any GMK sets on upside down switches anymore, and all is well.  However, I recently trudged over to Massdrop to see the KBD66 with upside down switches and I can't seem to convince anyone there that there is a small compatiblity issue.

Anyone else that can help me point to a thread with more evidence?  Anyone else want to speak up about the stupidity of these upside down switches.  I'm not conjuring up this evidence.  I have personally felt and heard the issue.  I can't imagine that others don't notice it.

I should probably just keep my mouth shut, but I would hate for someone to spend all of their money to get a sub-optimal mech experience :)

I've personally never had any issues. Different people have different sensitivity to these kinds of "issues". Maybe a lot of people don't notice and ignorance will be their bliss. Maybe a lot of people think the difference is insignificant and simply don't care. I don't think it's quite fair for you to determine what is a sub-optimal mech experience for other people. My concern is the type of behavior that tends to take root in MD drop discussions. A couple people will post about their negative experience and everybody starts freaking out without considering, willfully or negligently, that the vocal ones are usually in the minority. I think it gives a lot of products a bad rap, and unnecessarily so.

I guess that's true about sensitivity.  People have been clipping stabilizers for quite some time now, yet there are who knows how many thousands of keyboards out there with stock cherry stabilizers unclipped and you don't hear anyone complain. 
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: eksuen on Thu, 20 April 2017, 13:00:09
I have fixed all of my issues by selling stuff and buying stuff. 

I've ditched the Satan board for a NERD 60 and I've ended up with Pulse and Chocolatier on my Coolermaster Boards.  (Yeah, a nice compromise)

So, I don't have any GMK sets on upside down switches anymore, and all is well.  However, I recently trudged over to Massdrop to see the KBD66 with upside down switches and I can't seem to convince anyone there that there is a small compatiblity issue.

Anyone else that can help me point to a thread with more evidence?  Anyone else want to speak up about the stupidity of these upside down switches.  I'm not conjuring up this evidence.  I have personally felt and heard the issue.  I can't imagine that others don't notice it.

I should probably just keep my mouth shut, but I would hate for someone to spend all of their money to get a sub-optimal mech experience :)

I've personally never had any issues. Different people have different sensitivity to these kinds of "issues". Maybe a lot of people don't notice and ignorance will be their bliss. Maybe a lot of people think the difference is insignificant and simply don't care. I don't think it's quite fair for you to determine what is a sub-optimal mech experience for other people. My concern is the type of behavior that tends to take root in MD drop discussions. A couple people will post about their negative experience and everybody starts freaking out without considering, willfully or negligently, that the vocal ones are usually in the minority. I think it gives a lot of products a bad rap, and unnecessarily so.

I guess that's true about sensitivity.  People have been clipping stabilizers for quite some time now, yet there are who knows how many thousands of keyboards out there with stock cherry stabilizers unclipped and you don't hear anyone complain.

Exactly. I don't clip my stabs and I am perfectly happy with them.
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: schoolbus on Tue, 25 April 2017, 13:36:49

However, I recently trudged over to Massdrop to see the KBD66 with upside down switches and I can't seem to convince anyone there that there is a small compatiblity issue.


Yeah it's unfortunate that some people are in denial about the issue for whatever reason. Unable to accept reality I guess.

I mean, it's a well accepted FACT that mx-style switches aren't symmetrical north & south facing so there's obviously a difference. Since GMK/Cherry profile keycaps are so 'lean' it's common sense that something like this has the potential to occur.

Obviously, the issue isn't that great though since not everyone notices it (and some are so hell bent on denying it?)- but it is documented by people like this thread and others. Whether you choose to ignore it or not is up to you- but saying it simply doesn't exist seems disingenuous.

I have boards with both and the difference is super subtle but it definitely does exist.
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: pixelpusher on Tue, 25 April 2017, 13:40:15

However, I recently trudged over to Massdrop to see the KBD66 with upside down switches and I can't seem to convince anyone there that there is a small compatiblity issue.


Yeah it's unfortunate that some people are in denial about the issue for whatever reason. Unable to accept reality I guess.

I mean, it's a well accepted FACT that mx-style switches aren't symmetrical north & south facing so there's obviously a difference. Since GMK/Cherry profile keycaps are so 'lean' it's common sense that something like this has the potential to occur.

Obviously, the issue isn't that great though since not everyone notices it (and some are so hell bent on denying it?)- but it is documented by people like this thread and others. Whether you choose to ignore it or not is up to you- but saying it simply doesn't exist seems disingenuous.

I have boards with both and the difference is super subtle but it definitely does exist.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 25 April 2017, 18:17:19


what is the problem, is it height difference or stabilizer clearance.
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: pixelpusher on Tue, 25 April 2017, 18:22:02
The top of the switch housing makes contact with the inside of the keycap very very slightly
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: pixelpusher on Tue, 25 April 2017, 18:22:53
And this is primarily on R3 (shift row)
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 25 April 2017, 18:29:53
Just shave down the top of the mx switch housing,  it's not load bearing.. or highly structural..
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: pixelpusher on Tue, 25 April 2017, 18:34:56
Just shave down the top of the mx switch housing,  it's not load bearing.. or highly structural..

I actually tried that down to creating a hole and it still didn't help. I didn't think about sanding further, but I think you're right.  If you're willing to cut down that side of the switch top on R3 it would probably fix the issue
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: Marutks on Thu, 06 July 2017, 10:01:40
I tried to use GMK Cherry keycaps with KBD66.  There is a problem indeed. Home row keys feel mushy, like with O rings.
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 06 July 2017, 10:03:38
I kept my upside down switch boards.  They are now dedicated to SA and DSA caps :)
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: schoolbus on Thu, 06 July 2017, 10:23:22
I kept my upside down switch boards.  They are now dedicated to SA and DSA caps :)

Haha oh man, are you me?!?!

I have made a point of basically only getting boards now with "proper" alignment, but for the 2 that I have.. (EEPW84/GSX96) they are designated SA boards now lol, which actually works out great.
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 06 July 2017, 10:25:51
I ended up with granite, amazing chocolatier and pulse because of the issue, sooo.... I've can't complain too much  ;)
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: Rayoui on Fri, 07 July 2017, 19:52:12
I have this issue as well. R3 GMK caps seem to bottom out more softly than the taller profiles. I avoid boards with north facing LEDs because of this.

It's easy to test. Just put a R3 GMK cap on any switch and put another one upside down on the switch next to it. They will feel different. As has been mentioned previously, it happens regardless of whether there is an LED or not because the sloped front of the keycap is making contact with the switch housing.
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: schoolbus on Sat, 08 July 2017, 14:58:37
I have this issue as well. R3 GMK caps seem to bottom out more softly than the taller profiles. I avoid boards with north facing LEDs because of this.

It's easy to test. Just put a R3 GMK cap on any switch and put another one upside down on the switch next to it. They will feel different. As has been mentioned previously, it happens regardless of whether there is an LED or not because the sloped front of the keycap is making contact with the switch housing.

QFT!, thank goodness there are us folks who are aware! I basically stopped recommending ducky boards because of this.

(http://i.imgur.com/WsBnzpQ.jpg)
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: pixelpusher on Sat, 08 July 2017, 15:02:37
I have this issue as well. R3 GMK caps seem to bottom out more softly than the taller profiles. I avoid boards with north facing LEDs because of this.

It's easy to test. Just put a R3 GMK cap on any switch and put another one upside down on the switch next to it. They will feel different. As has been mentioned previously, it happens regardless of whether there is an LED or not because the sloped front of the keycap is making contact with the switch housing.

QFT!, thank goodness there are us folks who are aware! I basically stopped recommending ducky boards because of this.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/WsBnzpQ.jpg)


Yes! And I always enjoy asking other helpful men about how to properly lube
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: Grossmeister on Sat, 03 March 2018, 12:49:53
I basically stopped recommending ducky boards because of this.
Does the problem exist with the stock Ducky PBT caps, or only if a user wants to install different keycaps?
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: pixelpusher on Sat, 03 March 2018, 13:18:07
I basically stopped recommending ducky boards because of this.
Does the problem exist with the stock Ducky PBT caps, or only if a user wants to install different keycaps?

Stock  Ducky are OEM profile which is a bit taller, so you should not have an issue. 
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: captsis on Sat, 03 March 2018, 20:08:46
  Yeah, they work, but not like they're supposed to.  It's like learning what stabilizers SHOULD feel like and never being able to go back to the old mushy/rattly ones. 

Wait....What should a stabilizer feel like?
Title: Re: HELP! Cherry mx (upside down) not for GMK (Cherry) sets (or am I crazy)?
Post by: pixelpusher on Sat, 03 March 2018, 20:35:55
  Yeah, they work, but not like they're supposed to.  It's like learning what stabilizers SHOULD feel like and never being able to go back to the old mushy/rattly ones. 

Wait....What should a stabilizer feel like?

Just like the other non-stabilized keys.  If your keyboard has cherry stabilizers they will often feel somewhat less clacky on bottom out, what some people call “mushy”.  This is due to the small bit of extra plastic on the bottom of the stabilizer inserts that make contact with the pcb before the switch completely bottoms out. These are usually removed with flush cutters by keyboard enthusiasts.  Look up “clipping stabilizers” for more detail if needed.

Stabilizers also often have a rattle from the stabilizer wire wiggling around in the insert. Adding thick lubricant to that hole (hehe) serves to dampen and often completely silence the rattle. See “lubing stabilizers” for more detail.

If your keyboard has non-cherry stabilizers (pre-clipped inserts or costar) you could likely just have rattle and no mush (solved the same way, with lubricant)