You gang-raped my wallet with your ill-tested recent massdrop of the keyboard. Surely you knew you'd screwed up on the prototypes' keys being ridiculously light.
Yet for whatever reason -- pigheaded pride, greed, or incompetent behavior, you chose to stubbornly march ahead instead of fixing the design flaw.
Damn you for gang-raping our wallets. How will you ever repay us loyal enthusiasts? You took advantage of our belief and screwed us. Damn you, damn you, damn you!
I know I'm not out of bounds on this, as evidence by the public and private notes angrily agreeing with me. Don't bother privately replying -- it won't be read. You've lost the opportunity. Instead, make it up to the many others echoing my disgust at your asinine behavior in going through with the product at full speed instead of properly holding until you'd fixed the issue. You son of a *****.
I actually preferred the 50 g springs to the 70 g ones xD .
If your negligence includes failing to issue a full refund to everyone who complained on the MassDrop discussion thread, I'm going to contact each of them to pursue our rightful options against you. So you might finally wake up and behave in a professional, responsible manner towards your brethren. You have 48 hours to do the right thing -- though I somehow doubt your questionable conscience will guide you to that without stern measures. So be it. You have forfeited your right to ever offer another product. If you remain stubbornly defiant, I will track you down and deal with you directly. Believe it.
I recently received this feedback from a geekhack forum member who, for their sake, shall remain anonymous.QuoteI know I'm not out of bounds on this, as evidence by the public and private notes angrily agreeing with me. Don't bother privately replying -- it won't be read. You've lost the opportunity. Instead, make it up to the many others echoing my disgust at your asinine behavior in going through with the product at full speed instead of properly holding until you'd fixed the issue. You son of a *****.
The saga continues, now with a direct threat against me. The user in question is HighPlainsDrafter. I had hoped to keep them anonymous but this threat forces my hand. If anyone here has another means of contacting this user, please direct them to take up their issue with the Massdrop support team.
They are, but I kinda like them. They feel responsive for me while not actuating sporadically too much, and I could swear they feel smoother than the 70 g springs.I actually preferred the 50 g springs to the 70 g ones xD .
The 50g springs are pretty light. It's taking me some getting used to along with more typos than I'm used to getting while I type. That I've got some SA caps on, which I haven't typed on in a while, probably isn't helping things, but even before that, the 50g caps felt rather light to type on.
This is pretty much it. The only prior correspondence was back in November when he told me he made an error with his order (which I forwarded to MD support), and a few days ago when he expressed concern and disappointment at the spring weights on the Massdrop discussion (where I did not reply immediately but again directed him to Massdrop support).
He seems to think that I personify the boards and all issues go to me. That's simply not true. For every issue he mentioned to me, I was near powerless to do anything. Any frustration should be directed to Massdrop.
I did ping MD and they are reviewing the case. I hope he opts for a refund and that we can all move beyond this.
The saga continues, now with a direct threat against me. The user in question is HighPlainsDrafter. I had hoped to keep them anonymous but this threat forces my hand. If anyone here has another means of contacting this user, please direct them to take up their issue with the Massdrop support team.Maybe Massdrop should refund this dude and include some........
The latest correspondence:If your negligence includes failing to issue a full refund to everyone who complained on the MassDrop discussion thread, I'm going to contact each of them to pursue our rightful options against you. So you might finally wake up and behave in a professional, responsible manner towards your brethren. You have 48 hours to do the right thing -- though I somehow doubt your questionable conscience will guide you to that without stern measures. So be it. You have forfeited your right to ever offer another product. If you remain stubbornly defiant, I will track you down and deal with you directly. Believe it.
Drar HighPlainsDrafter:
Please contact Massdrop support with your concern. You purchased your board from Massdrop, not from me, as did everyone else on the "drop". I personally am in no position to offer anyone a refund.
I have already contacted my internal Massdrop contact, as well as the geekhack moderator team, with regards to your messages. There is nothing more I can do for you.
Cheers,
XMIT
Hmm. One takeaway is that I can do a better job of communicating spring weights. The listed 50g and 70g are bottom out weights, and not actuation weights.
Honestly, verify the contents of these PMs and ban this toxic *******. Personal attacks like this, public or private, should not be tolerated.
Hmm. One takeaway is that I can do a better job of communicating spring weights. The listed 50g and 70g are bottom out weights, and not actuation weights.
@ImpendingxDoom, congrats, you get to be a beta tester for the 85g springs I'm planning to offer next time. You're not the first to say that even the 70g springs are light. Also I'll change what I call them publicly to match actuation weights. Thanks manufacturers refer to them by their bottoming out weights.
The saga continues, now with a direct threat against me. The user in question is HighPlainsDrafter. I had hoped to keep them anonymous but this threat forces my hand. If anyone here has another means of contacting this user, please direct them to take up their issue with the Massdrop support team.
The latest correspondence:If your negligence includes failing to issue a full refund to everyone who complained on the MassDrop discussion thread, I'm going to contact each of them to pursue our rightful options against you. So you might finally wake up and behave in a professional, responsible manner towards your brethren. You have 48 hours to do the right thing -- though I somehow doubt your questionable conscience will guide you to that without stern measures. So be it. You have forfeited your right to ever offer another product. If you remain stubbornly defiant, I will track you down and deal with you directly. Believe it.
Drar HighPlainsDrafter:
Please contact Massdrop support with your concern. You purchased your board from Massdrop, not from me, as did everyone else on the "drop". I personally am in no position to offer anyone a refund.
I have already contacted my internal Massdrop contact, as well as the geekhack moderator team, with regards to your messages. There is nothing more I can do for you.
Cheers,
XMIT
Most of his abusive diatribe is just par for the course on the internet, But the personal threat against XMIT is unacceptable. Mods should verify PMs and then ban
I am reporting your post and requesting a ban from the mods..
hahahahahahaha
Since you've been around so long, maybe you should have read the rules :thumb:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DHIgRsE.png)
It would be very helpful to hear comparisons by people who have both and own various Alps and Cherry linear switches who could describe and compare the relative "perceived" weight of the 50g and 70g HE models to commonly known quantities.
So I don't get it - are people complaining the boards are too light at 50g? I mean - maybe I'm going nuts here, but I prefer 45g of force for most of my keyboards. What exactly is the problem people are experiencing at the moment?
For reference, I almost bought your board on massdrop when I saw it on the site. I instead settled for getting a Pok3r RGB, which I think was the board that really kicked me off into this "habit".
So I don't get it - are people complaining the boards are too light at 50g? I mean - maybe I'm going nuts here, but I prefer 45g of force for most of my keyboards. What exactly is the problem people are experiencing at the moment?
For reference, I almost bought your board on massdrop when I saw it on the site. I instead settled for getting a Pok3r RGB, which I think was the board that really kicked me off into this "habit".
I've got both in front of me. The 50g XMIT board is definitely lighter than the 45g Cherry MX Reds. It's clearly noticeable as well. The XMIT board needs a very light touch for activation. Like XMIT said, the 50g on the hall effect switches isn't the activation point. It honestly feels like MX linear switches with maybe 35g activation. Reds are definitely heavier.
Most seem to be saying that the 70g are somewhere between MX Reds and MX Blacks. Personally I'd probably go for some 60g springs for the XMIT board but I've yet to try the 70g springs to be able to fully figure out what I like on the new hall effect boards.
One note; vintage MX blacks are heavier than modern ones.
He does, doesn't he? Oo They're just called MX blacks if memory serves.One note; vintage MX blacks are heavier than modern ones.
Yeah, but HaaTa doesn't have force curves for modern blacks yet and I wanted an apples for apples comparison on the same test fixture.
He does, doesn't he? Oo They're just called MX blacks if memory serves.One note; vintage MX blacks are heavier than modern ones.
Yeah, but HaaTa doesn't have force curves for modern blacks yet and I wanted an apples for apples comparison on the same test fixture.
https://plot.ly/~haata/72 is for the modern mx black as far as I know.
I was just about to post this; it's the only plot that's under "load more files" xD . That's probably why it didn't show up for you.https://plot.ly/~haata/72 is for the modern mx black as far as I know.
Don't know why I couldn't find that earlier. I'll go update my earlier post now... updated.
I haven't been able to score a clean 3rd gen Fujitsu leaf spring. How does it compare to either the 50g or 70g HE?FLS is smoother.
I echo the sentiment that the switches are light. I have the 70g, and it fells like a step lighter than any MX black I've ever typed on (aka distinctly NOT 70g). I assume this is because the nature of the switches are different. It would make logical sense that the weight of a spring would lead to a universal resistance across any medium, but this Hall Effect board is definitely proof that that is not true...
I love hanging out in the MK world. But let's face it, it's also full of eccentrically, sometimes epically, picky people.
I'm not saying you have to be on the autism scale to enjoy MKs. However, it's a well-known fact that people with obsessive personalities are often drawn to small, precise things—and what's an MK a collection of? Yep. The colors and textures of of key caps, the loudness and tone of clicks, the exact heights at which switches actuate... For sure, it's fun stuff—but for some people, it can involve pathological levels of preoccupation. That's just a fact.
Social media notwithstanding, typing is also an intrinsically solitary activity. So it's not unusual for people who arrange their lives around something like MKs to be essentially solitary, people who've arranged everything in their lives just so. If something upsets that balance—even if they just perceive it that way—they can lash out unpredictably and irrationally. If something they've hyper-focused on isn't how they expected it to be, they may feel like their world's careening out of control.
So you have to take this kind of thing with a grain of salt. When you get involved in a community like this, you'll almost certainly come in contact with people to whom MKs mean more than virtually anything else, including other people.
And if you take the extraordinary step of designing and producing your own MK-related products, and offering them to this community, you're opening yourself up to everyone's expectations, no matter how unrealistic or potentially volatile they may be.
You can just imagine the rants customer service people at keyboard companies regularly receive. But those people aren't functioning as members of a KB community. They're hired to handle problems and complaints all day, every day. When a customer's irate, they can isolate themselves from the emotion, open the protocol policies their company has issued to them, follow the numbers, then forget about it and take the next call. XMIT doesn't have that luxury; he's one of us.
So I think it's important to keep in mind that nothing really unusual is going on here. It's just the context in which it's happening.
With any new product—not to mention, one that's this kind of new—there will always be people who like it and people who don't. The people who don't may have legitimate complaints (e.g. obvious defects, shipping damage), or they may have created an inaccurate or unrealistic image of the product in their minds. Or it may just work or look different from what they'd prefer. And as it's pointed out here every day: Typing feel and visual aesthetics are highly subjective.
XMIT's a very smart guy. I'm sure he realized what he might be wading into when he decided to take this project on. He did it anyway, and he's being as open and accommodating as he can.
Since I plugged in my XMIT board, I've gotten nothing but pleasure from it. (I'm typing on it now.) To me, it looks, feels, and operates just great, and knowing it has HE switches is a true geeky thrill. The facts that it's also my only RGB board, and my only board with a natural wood case, are just bonuses.
No, I didn't expect it to be perfect. The case is a bit rough here and there (it is, after all, natural wood), and the spacebar's noisier than I expected. But remember, these are virtual prototypes of a kind of board few of us have ever seen, much less gotten to use. Despite the quirks, IMHO we're lucky to get in on the first wave of them. And XMIT clearly values our feedback, as long as we're able to communicate it constructively. To me, that's a thrill too, to be involved such an interesting board's evolution.
So I'm willing to support XMIT however I can, so he can keep moving forward. I'm sorry not everyone feels that way—but unfortunately, some people will always be so wrapped up in their own precise little worlds, you can't make them step back and see a bigger picture. There isn't a single entrepreneur in the world who doesn't have to deal with that. It's the reason most of us spend our lives working for other people and letting them take up the slack.
The saga continues, now with a direct threat against me. The user in question is HighPlainsDrafter. I had hoped to keep them anonymous but this threat forces my hand. If anyone here has another means of contacting this user, please direct them to take up their issue with the Massdrop support team.
The latest correspondence:If your negligence includes failing to issue a full refund to everyone who complained on the MassDrop discussion thread, I'm going to contact each of them to pursue our rightful options against you. So you might finally wake up and behave in a professional, responsible manner towards your brethren. You have 48 hours to do the right thing -- though I somehow doubt your questionable conscience will guide you to that without stern measures. So be it. You have forfeited your right to ever offer another product. If you remain stubbornly defiant, I will track you down and deal with you directly. Believe it.
Drar HighPlainsDrafter:
Please contact Massdrop support with your concern. You purchased your board from Massdrop, not from me, as did everyone else on the "drop". I personally am in no position to offer anyone a refund.
I have already contacted my internal Massdrop contact, as well as the geekhack moderator team, with regards to your messages. There is nothing more I can do for you.
Cheers,
XMIT
So you might finally wake up and behave in a professional, responsible manner towards your brethren.
I hope this clarifies any remaining confusion on the spring weights.
Give him a replacement keyboard with the hardest springs you can find , one that will cause his fingers to hurt badly or get carpal tunnel or something( I am not sure if you can even get carpal tunnel from that but we can find out with him).
Just because he is very passionate about his hard springs.
Give him a replacement keyboard with the hardest springs you can find , one that will cause his fingers to hurt badly or get carpal tunnel or something( I am not sure if you can even get carpal tunnel from that but we can find out with him).
Just because he is very passionate about his hard springs.
I got his springs right here: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2310
LMAOOO. This is awesome.Give him a replacement keyboard with the hardest springs you can find , one that will cause his fingers to hurt badly or get carpal tunnel or something( I am not sure if you can even get carpal tunnel from that but we can find out with him).
Just because he is very passionate about his hard springs.
I got his springs right here: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2310
Give him a replacement keyboard with the hardest springs you can find , one that will cause his fingers to hurt badly or get carpal tunnel or something( I am not sure if you can even get carpal tunnel from that but we can find out with him).
Just because he is very passionate about his hard springs.
I got his springs right here: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2310
Let's be clear that Cherry MX style springs will NOT work on the Hall boards. These replacement springs need a length of 12.5 mm and an inner diameter of 5.0 mm.
Give him a replacement keyboard with the hardest springs you can find , one that will cause his fingers to hurt badly or get carpal tunnel or something( I am not sure if you can even get carpal tunnel from that but we can find out with him).
Just because he is very passionate about his hard springs.
I got his springs right here: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2310
I love hanging out in the MK world. But let's face it, it's also full of eccentrically, sometimes epically, picky people.
I'm not saying you have to be on the autism scale to enjoy MKs. However, it's a well-known fact that people with obsessive personalities are often drawn to small, precise things—and what's an MK a collection of? Yep. The colors and textures of of key caps, the loudness and tone of clicks, the exact heights at which switches actuate... For sure, it's fun stuff—but for some people, it can involve pathological levels of preoccupation. That's just a fact.
Social media notwithstanding, typing is also an intrinsically solitary activity. So it's not unusual for people who arrange their lives around something like MKs to be essentially solitary, people who've arranged everything in their lives just so. If something upsets that balance—even if they just perceive it that way—they can lash out unpredictably and irrationally. If something they've hyper-focused on isn't how they expected it to be, they may feel like their world's careening out of control.
So you have to take this kind of thing with a grain of salt. When you get involved in a community like this, you'll almost certainly come in contact with people to whom MKs mean more than virtually anything else, including other people.
And if you take the extraordinary step of designing and producing your own MK-related products, and offering them to this community, you're opening yourself up to everyone's expectations, no matter how unrealistic or potentially volatile they may be.
You can just imagine the rants customer service people at keyboard companies regularly receive. But those people aren't functioning as members of a KB community. They're hired to handle problems and complaints all day, every day. When a customer's irate, they can isolate themselves from the emotion, open the protocol policies their company has issued to them, follow the numbers, then forget about it and take the next call. XMIT doesn't have that luxury; he's one of us.
So I think it's important to keep in mind that nothing really unusual is going on here. It's just the context in which it's happening.
With any new product—not to mention, one that's this kind of new—there will always be people who like it and people who don't. The people who don't may have legitimate complaints (e.g. obvious defects, shipping damage), or they may have created an inaccurate or unrealistic image of the product in their minds. Or it may just work or look different from what they'd prefer. And as it's pointed out here every day: Typing feel and visual aesthetics are highly subjective.
XMIT's a very smart guy. I'm sure he realized what he might be wading into when he decided to take this project on. He did it anyway, and he's being as open and accommodating as he can.
Since I plugged in my XMIT board, I've gotten nothing but pleasure from it. (I'm typing on it now.) To me, it looks, feels, and operates just great, and knowing it has HE switches is a true geeky thrill. The facts that it's also my only RGB board, and my only board with a natural wood case, are just bonuses.
No, I didn't expect it to be perfect. The case is a bit rough here and there (it is, after all, natural wood), and the spacebar's noisier than I expected. But remember, these are virtual prototypes of a kind of board few of us have ever seen, much less gotten to use. Despite the quirks, IMHO we're lucky to get in on the first wave of them. And XMIT clearly values our feedback, as long as we're able to communicate it constructively. To me, that's a thrill too, to be involved such an interesting board's evolution.
So I'm willing to support XMIT however I can, so he can keep moving forward. I'm sorry not everyone feels that way—but unfortunately, some people will always be so wrapped up in their own precise little worlds, you can't make them step back and see a bigger picture. There isn't a single entrepreneur in the world who doesn't have to deal with that. It's the reason most of us spend our lives working for other people and letting them take up the slack.I echo the sentiment that the switches are light. I have the 70g, and it fells like a step lighter than any MX black I've ever typed on (aka distinctly NOT 70g). I assume this is because the nature of the switches are different. It would make logical sense that the weight of a spring would lead to a universal resistance across any medium, but this Hall Effect board is definitely proof that that is not true...
That's a great, objective viewpoint. As far as I know, after reliability, HE switches are all about smoothness. How much smoother can you get than simply having to move a magnet a few millimeters perpendicular to an electrical current?
To me, these switches's pressure falls between that of MX Reds and Blacks. They're light enough not to be fatiguing, but have enough resistance that you can type without slamming them down. If you find yourself bottoming out anyway, I suggest it's just a matter of practice, allowing yourself to type with less effort, just skimming across the keys.
Yes, you'll miss some characters in the process of learning to do it. But resist the temptation to whine. Like many things in life that take some effort, the benefits are worth the trouble.
I play five musical instruments, BTW—and I can tell you that learning to type lightly, without wasted effort or strain, was a lot easier to learn than any of them. :?)
Give him a replacement keyboard with the hardest springs you can find , one that will cause his fingers to hurt badly or get carpal tunnel or something( I am not sure if you can even get carpal tunnel from that but we can find out with him).
Just because he is very passionate about his hard springs.
I got his springs right here: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2310Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/QJc1ibf.jpg)
300g anybody?
DuckNorris: I have your spring right here:
http://imgur.com/gallery/LAvi3
DuckNorris: I have your spring right here:
http://imgur.com/gallery/LAvi3
Thank you, I can finally build my endgame now.
Edit: Btw this gave me a good laugh this looks like an awesome troll project lol
DuckNorris: I have your spring right here:
http://imgur.com/gallery/LAvi3
Thank you, I can finally build my endgame now.
Edit: Btw this gave me a good laugh this looks like an awesome troll project lol
Are you serious?
How did such a small and ordinary looking spring turn out to be a 700g spring?
Also how can you expect such a spring to be realistically usable in most situations? Even if it controls the power button, it will be very hard to press.
I know the reason for ducknorris posting this spring is to troll the fussy buyer, but I can't see any reason for a parts manufacturer to make such a spring. Not many keyboard manufacturers will pay for 700g spring I'd wager.
lol right on, but why an Amazon Fire tablet specifically? :DSo you might finally wake up and behave in a professional, responsible manner towards your brethren.
LOLLL - "brethren".....too funny. This is starting to look more like a troll rather than a legit rage-fueled 13 year old mouth-breather on his mom's Amazon Fire Tablet.
So I don't get it - are people complaining the boards are too light at 50g? I mean - maybe I'm going nuts here, but I prefer 45g of force for most of my keyboards. What exactly is the problem people are experiencing at the moment?
For reference, I almost bought your board on massdrop when I saw it on the site. I instead settled for getting a Pok3r RGB, which I think was the board that really kicked me off into this "habit".