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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: snarfarlarkus on Sun, 19 March 2017, 23:37:50
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I was wondering what you guys think is the best clicky switch? I'm loving my zealiostotles right now but some sticky keys are really annoying. Maybe I should try gat blues?
Let me know thanks
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MX Buroo !
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MX blues w/ 55g Korean springs
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MX blues w/ 55g Korean springs
/Taste !!
Puddsy haz it.. !
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MX blues w/ 55g Korean springs
/Taste !!
Puddsy haz it.. !
gotta mod my filco soon, might do 55g greens to match the camo case
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Zealiostotles with 98g springs
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
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I love my Blue Alps keyboard. Most satisfying feeling ever ^-^.
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Vintage Cherry Jailhouse Blues or Outemu Blues the first hour you use them.*
*They are still better than other blues after broken in (comparable to vintage Cherry Blues), but that first hour is almost like a buckling spring feel.
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I like Matias Clicks. They are lighter and more tactile than white Alps but you can get them much more easily in brand new condition.
They make any MX based clicky feel like mush tbh.
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Hmm, interesting options here. I'm quite tempted to try jailhouse blues and matais click. Anyone tried gatistotles here? They're what I'm currently using and I want to see how they compare to the aforementioned switches
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Alps SKCM Blue, IBM buckling spring, Oki Tactile Gourd Spring
OTOH, modern Cherry MX Blue/Green is not even on the list, because it's such a garbage design of a clicky switch (jailhouse blues though…). I find vintage MX Blue (the old stem design) at least barely tolerable.
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Hmm, interesting options here. I'm quite tempted to try jailhouse blues and matais click. Anyone tried gatistotles here? They're what I'm currently using and I want to see how they compare to the aforementioned switches
You don't have to go actual vintage for Cherry good blues, just find a first year Razer Black Widow, they are about as good of Cherry blues as you will get.
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Hmm, interesting options here. I'm quite tempted to try jailhouse blues and matais click. Anyone tried gatistotles here? They're what I'm currently using and I want to see how they compare to the aforementioned switches
I'm currently building Gatistotle with Gateron Yellows, but haven't had the time to replace the stems. I can come back at you and report how they feel. Apart from that, I'm not a big fan of Cherry MX Blue or Green.
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Blue Alps and beam springs.
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There is no best as it varies depending on what I'm doing and which key it is.
For example sI like a much stiffer switch for my spacebar and some modifiers.
For gaming I like stiffer switches than when I'm coding.
A mix of Gateron Blue and Green with a few spring swaps for some keys that need even more stiffness.
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Blue Alps and beam springs.
How could I forget beamsprings. So good.
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Bad, uncool, dude that I am, I use and enjoy modern MX Blues. If clicky Alps switches were to be made again I'd certainly give those a try.
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Bad, uncool, dude that I am, I use and enjoy modern MX Blues. If clicky Alps switches were to be made again I'd certainly give those a try.
They're not bad per se, but there are just better options. Have you already tried the Aristotle stem in a different housing?
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Hmm, interesting options here. I'm quite tempted to try jailhouse blues and matais click. Anyone tried gatistotles here? They're what I'm currently using and I want to see how they compare to the aforementioned switches
Yes, I have. I turned Gat Greens into gatistotiles and really enjoy them.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
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Bad, uncool, dude that I am, I use and enjoy modern MX Blues. If clicky Alps switches were to be made again I'd certainly give those a try.
They're not bad per se, but there are just better options. Have you already tried the Aristotle stem in a different housing?
I haven't messed with any modifications yet. It'd be fairly pointless for me until I get another KB though, my Rosewill has wacky problems.
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There is no best as it varies depending on what I'm doing and which key it is.
For example sI like a much stiffer switch for my spacebar and some modifiers.
For gaming I like stiffer switches than when I'm coding.
A mix of Gateron Blue and Green with a few spring swaps for some keys that need even more stiffness.
Very true... Different people also like different things.
My all time favorite is buckling spring, they just type incredibly well. Unfortunately it's not good for gaming due to noise and hysteresis, and even just using one while watching a movie is distracting. You also have very limited options for manufacturer and shapes and styles. Alps also has some that work quite well.
For gaming, I love Jailhouse Blues, it was part of what they were created for, they have very fast reaction, low noise, and no hysteresis, pretty much everything a buckling spring isn't yet still work well for typing.
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Best Clicky switch is F buckling springs, hands down. NKRO by default due to hardware design.
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PSA: Current MX / RGB Blues (very recent batches) are MUCH better than MX blues from just 1 year ago. The quality is improved enough to almost make you think you are using a different switch brand altogether.
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Best Clicky switch is F buckling springs, hands down. NKRO by default due to hardware design.
So are beam springs :p .
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PSA: Current MX / RGB Blues (very recent batches) are MUCH better than MX blues from just 1 year ago. The quality is improved enough to almost make you think you are using a different switch brand altogether.
Wonder if they finally got around to making new molds.
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BS. Is BS clicky? It makes a click.
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PSA: Current MX / RGB Blues (very recent batches) are MUCH better than MX blues from just 1 year ago. The quality is improved enough to almost make you think you are using a different switch brand altogether.
Wonder if they finally got around to making new molds.
according to this thread, they have.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88031.0
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PSA: Current MX / RGB Blues (very recent batches) are MUCH better than MX blues from just 1 year ago. The quality is improved enough to almost make you think you are using a different switch brand altogether.
Wonder if they finally got around to making new molds.
I found some new MX blue switches at the meetup recently, and the logo is unmistakably different on them, as is the surface texture I think. There might well be something in this.
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I like my Gatistoles with 60g. I also am fond of Cherry Blues/Greens with 67g springs. I havent tried Gateron greens in a full board but they feel great individually.
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BS. Is BS clicky? It makes a click.
It doesn't click so much as knock.
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buckling spring
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Most answers are BS in which has been my all time favourite switch, period. I have an XT and AT ANSI and I'm starting to believe that there is no other clicky switch that can compare besides Beamspring ofc but I have tried hunting one to no avail. Maybe the F/Beamspring truly are endgame.
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Capacitive buckling spring. Then non capacitive Bs. Next gatistotle or zealiostotle with heavy springs. After that it doesn't really matter. Stock gaterons are pretty nice. Jailhouse switches aren't clickys, and the mod supresses the sharp feedback which is the biggest reason to use a clicky!
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You forgot about beamsprings, which are even better than capacitive buckling springs.
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Welp, I haven't ever had the pleasure of trying a beam spring board, so I didn't include it :(
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I never used one either. It's possible I may have pressed on one when I was a child, but the only thing I remember was seeing IBM Selectric II's and Commodore PET's still around in the very early 1980's. I thought IBM PC's were a joke at the time...
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I prefer tactile switches, but of all the MX-type clicky switches I've tried, I like the Fosen Aquamarine the most. They feel really close to MX Blues (maybe a smidgen heavier), but the click is a deeper, more satisfying sound to my ears.
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As far as the switch itself is concerned, I'd rate beam springs most highly. If there was a scale out of 10, they would receive a 10.
Model F receives a score of 9.5, and Model M gets 9. I would rate Blue ALPS also at 9.
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I never used one either. It's possible I may have pressed on one when I was a child, but the only thing I remember was seeing IBM Selectric II's and Commodore PET's still around in the very early 1980's. I thought IBM PC's were a joke at the time...
Welp, I haven't ever had the pleasure of trying a beam spring board, so I didn't include it :(
Pretty sure whoever posts "buckling springs" here hasn't tried an F, and whoever posts "capacitive buckling springs" hasn't tried a beamspring xD .
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Pretty sure whoever posts "buckling springs" here hasn't tried an F, and whoever posts "capacitive buckling springs" hasn't tried a beamspring xD .
Last time I checked a Model F was buckling springs?? Come on Chyros, you're better than that! :D
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A Model F feels quite better than a Model M. Even though a Model M feels better than any Cherry MX keyboard, F's were better built and simply felt like the legacy they were--an evolution and miniaturization of the terminal beamspring keyboards, which were far too heavy and bulky for personal computer use.
I only tried a Model F once in my life, back when either the Cerritos Library or Cerritos College back in 1992 (I think it was 1992) still had old IBM computers for some sort of computer classes. I didn't even know anything at the time, except I remember the enter key looked....extremely awkward. I knew what the keyboards felt like as I had tried model M's back in the 80's as well, without knowing anything except "IBM's aren't for video games".
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If key feel is the only concern, I think I will vote for beam spring. Though I am not lucky enough to have a whole beam spring board. I only have one switch tester. However, given the size, weight and availability I don't think it's a very practical choice. I would vote for capacitive buckling spring for practical purpose.
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Pretty sure whoever posts "buckling springs" here hasn't tried an F, and whoever posts "capacitive buckling springs" hasn't tried a beamspring xD .
Last time I checked a Model F was buckling springs?? Come on Chyros, you're better than that! :D
True, but people who've tried an F never refer to them as just "buckling springs" because they know they're so much better than the ones in the M. They'll always stress the capacitive bit.
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Pretty sure whoever posts "buckling springs" here hasn't tried an F, and whoever posts "capacitive buckling springs" hasn't tried a beamspring xD .
Last time I checked a Model F was buckling springs?? Come on Chyros, you're better than that! :D
True, but people who've tried an F never refer to them as just "buckling springs" because they know they're so much better than the ones in the M. They'll always stress the capacitive bit.
I've never used the term "capacitive buckling spring" since it is too unwieldly. I call it Model F.
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Pretty sure whoever posts "buckling springs" here hasn't tried an F, and whoever posts "capacitive buckling springs" hasn't tried a beamspring xD .
Last time I checked a Model F was buckling springs?? Come on Chyros, you're better than that! :D
True, but people who've tried an F never refer to them as just "buckling springs" because they know they're so much better than the ones in the M. They'll always stress the capacitive bit.
I've never used the term "capacitive buckling spring" since it is too unwieldly. I call it Model F.
I generally use MBS/CBS.
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Pretty sure whoever posts "buckling springs" here hasn't tried an F, and whoever posts "capacitive buckling springs" hasn't tried a beamspring xD .
Last time I checked a Model F was buckling springs?? Come on Chyros, you're better than that! :D
True, but people who've tried an F never refer to them as just "buckling springs" because they know they're so much better than the ones in the M. They'll always stress the capacitive bit.
10-4
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i honestly like outemu blue better than buckling spring. they feel just as tactile and more refined imo.
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I'm waiting on quiet clicks, I'll report back here once I eventually receive them
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i honestly like outemu blue better than buckling spring. they feel just as tactile and more refined imo.
By more refined, I assume you mean more mechanical, involving more parts. Without attempting to sow the seeds of flaming, I'd say it feels less natural.
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My all time favorite is buckling spring, they just type incredibly well. Unfortunately it's not good for gaming due to noise and hysteresis, and even just using one while watching a movie is distracting. You also have very limited options for manufacturer and shapes and styles. Alps also has some that work quite well.
For gaming, I love Jailhouse Blues, it was part of what they were created for, they have very fast reaction, low noise, and no hysteresis, pretty much everything a buckling spring isn't yet still work well for typing.
Honestly, I never really felt the hysteresis on Model M buckling springs (never had the chance to try a Model F), and would greatly prefer gaming on one to any linear switch because of the tactility. It just kinda snaps back right up once you've gone past the release point.
Cherry MX Blues, on the other hand? I can really feel the release point shifting up on those, but it's still not quite a deal-breaker for gaming. (It is, however, enough to make me prefer MX Clears overall.)
I've also never heard of a "Jailhouse Blue" until now, such that it has me tempted to test it out on my DSI Modular Mac at some point (and, in the future, the Kinesis Freestyle Edge). It'd save me the hassle of having to buy MX Clears or Zealios and transplant them all in manually.
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My all time favorite is buckling spring, they just type incredibly well. Unfortunately it's not good for gaming due to noise and hysteresis, and even just using one while watching a movie is distracting. You also have very limited options for manufacturer and shapes and styles. Alps also has some that work quite well.
For gaming, I love Jailhouse Blues, it was part of what they were created for, they have very fast reaction, low noise, and no hysteresis, pretty much everything a buckling spring isn't yet still work well for typing.
Honestly, I never really felt the hysteresis on Model M buckling springs (never had the chance to try a Model F), and would greatly prefer gaming on one to any linear switch because of the tactility. It just kinda snaps back right up once you've gone past the release point.
Cherry MX Blues, on the other hand? I can really feel the release point shifting up on those, but it's still not quite a deal-breaker for gaming. (It is, however, enough to make me prefer MX Clears overall.)
I've also never heard of a "Jailhouse Blue" until now, such that it has me tempted to test it out on my DSI Modular Mac at some point (and, in the future, the Kinesis Freestyle Edge). It'd save me the hassle of having to buy MX Clears or Zealios and transplant them all in manually.
I prefer gaming on BS switches over every style cherry switch. I like the feedback that linears don't provide. And like you mentioned, I never really notice the hysteresis on BS springs, while it sticks out like a sore thumb to me on clicky mx switches especially.
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My all time favorite is buckling spring, they just type incredibly well. Unfortunately it's not good for gaming due to noise and hysteresis, and even just using one while watching a movie is distracting. You also have very limited options for manufacturer and shapes and styles. Alps also has some that work quite well.
For gaming, I love Jailhouse Blues, it was part of what they were created for, they have very fast reaction, low noise, and no hysteresis, pretty much everything a buckling spring isn't yet still work well for typing.
Honestly, I never really felt the hysteresis on Model M buckling springs (never had the chance to try a Model F), and would greatly prefer gaming on one to any linear switch because of the tactility. It just kinda snaps back right up once you've gone past the release point.
Cherry MX Blues, on the other hand? I can really feel the release point shifting up on those, but it's still not quite a deal-breaker for gaming. (It is, however, enough to make me prefer MX Clears overall.)
I've also never heard of a "Jailhouse Blue" until now, such that it has me tempted to test it out on my DSI Modular Mac at some point (and, in the future, the Kinesis Freestyle Edge). It'd save me the hassle of having to buy MX Clears or Zealios and transplant them all in manually.
I prefer gaming on BS switches over every style cherry switch. I like the feedback that linears don't provide. And like you mentioned, I never really notice the hysteresis on BS springs, while it sticks out like a sore thumb to me on clicky mx switches especially.
I played FPS on a BS and did fine, the hysteresis isn't nearly as bad as an MX Blue, but it's there. Most people would be hard to find it.
I agree though, most MX switches are just terrible for gaming.
By the way, Nameless...
Jailhouse Blues are far more hassle and effort to install than any other MX compatible switch. Unless you have a universal plate, you still have to de-solder the switch before you mod them. And if you hand mod... My advice, buy the clips, because it really is a project to do.
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I didn't really like gaming on buckling springs. It was still completely usable but they're too stiff and I just don't like gaming on clicky switches for some reason.
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LOL—this is like asking what the best flavour of ice cream is. I don't know if there's much point to it, other than typing practice (which is good, of course).
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MX blues w/ 55g Korean springs
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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I didn't really like gaming on buckling springs. It was still completely usable but they're too stiff and I just don't like gaming on clicky switches for some reason.
They feel sluggish and unresponsive during gaming IMO. I tried some "benchmarking" games on them and they did very poorly.
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i honestly like outemu blue better than buckling spring. they feel just as tactile and more refined imo.
Wow really...? Arent they just mx blue clones like gat or kailh?
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i honestly like outemu blue better than buckling spring. they feel just as tactile and more refined imo.
Wow really...? Arent they just mx blue clones like gat or kailh?
Actually, people who have done testing on how smooth they operate show Outemus to be the best blue switch you can buy.
While we often think of Outemu and others as cheap MX clones, all of these are injection molded. In injection molding it all comes down to how good your mold is, a newer mold is going to be in better shape than the one made 20+ years ago and made millions of parts. Maybe Outemu spent extra on polishing, who knows, but yeah, they are quite smooth.
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Guys stop with the Outemu worship.
Outemus do NOT behave like MX Blues.
They work, but they feel extremely cheap. The metal clicker feels like it's made of some plastic material clicking rather than metal.
And Outemu blues have the switch ACTIVATION point *below* the end of the click bump actuation point, meaning it's possible to click the switch without activating it (all MX Browns, tactile greys and clears behave like this also), and I have had missed keystrokes when typing lightly and not paying attention. MX blues (greens) and Gaterons have the switch electrical point pass through the downstroke of the click slider movement, so it's impossible to activate the click without also engaging the switch, except on upstrokes, you can release (and re-engage) the electrical switch without releasing the click bump.
It's VERY important to understand this distinction, because it does make a difference if you do not bottom out. With Outemus having the electrical activation BELOW the end of the click bump movement, , they behave more like a mixture of browns with blue mechanical movement, rather like true blues like Gaterons do.
I will say this though:
Outemu blues are still MUCH better than the horribly scratchy, inconsistent RGB MX Blues Cherry was producing at first. But the most recent batches (as of late last year) of RGB Blues, especially which Ducky has been getting, are miles better than the inconsistent scratchy fests that Corsair was forced to discontinue or do limited runs of, awhile back.
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Guys stop with the Outemu worship.
So just because you don't like how they work, they can't feel nice to type on?
How they work is irrelevant if you like how they feel, I'd run rubber domes if I thought they felt better. Would I recommend them for gaming, absolutely not, but I also don't recommend unmodded Cherry Blues.
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My all time favorite is buckling spring, they just type incredibly well. Unfortunately it's not good for gaming due to noise and hysteresis, and even just using one while watching a movie is distracting. You also have very limited options for manufacturer and shapes and styles. Alps also has some that work quite well.
For gaming, I love Jailhouse Blues, it was part of what they were created for, they have very fast reaction, low noise, and no hysteresis, pretty much everything a buckling spring isn't yet still work well for typing.
Honestly, I never really felt the hysteresis on Model M buckling springs (never had the chance to try a Model F), and would greatly prefer gaming on one to any linear switch because of the tactility. It just kinda snaps back right up once you've gone past the release point.
Cherry MX Blues, on the other hand? I can really feel the release point shifting up on those, but it's still not quite a deal-breaker for gaming. (It is, however, enough to make me prefer MX Clears overall.)
I've also never heard of a "Jailhouse Blue" until now, such that it has me tempted to test it out on my DSI Modular Mac at some point (and, in the future, the Kinesis Freestyle Edge). It'd save me the hassle of having to buy MX Clears or Zealios and transplant them all in manually.
I prefer gaming on BS switches over every style cherry switch. I like the feedback that linears don't provide. And like you mentioned, I never really notice the hysteresis on BS springs, while it sticks out like a sore thumb to me on clicky mx switches especially.
I played FPS on a BS and did fine, the hysteresis isn't nearly as bad as an MX Blue, but it's there. Most people would be hard to find it.
I agree though, most MX switches are just terrible for gaming.
By the way, Nameless...
Jailhouse Blues are far more hassle and effort to install than any other MX compatible switch. Unless you have a universal plate, you still have to de-solder the switch before you mod them. And if you hand mod... My advice, buy the clips, because it really is a project to do.
I should also mention that I actually do mean FPSs as well when I talk about gaming, albeit stuff like Unreal Tournament where double-tap dodging is a thing, and movement in UT overall is still a lot easier than anything Q3A-derived with the constant trick-jumping to keep one's speed up. (And don't get me started on GunZ back when I could play that a decade ago... hoo boy, the K-style techniques in that game are a real keyboard workout, bordering on fighting game levels of ridiculousness!)
Doing the Jailhouse Blue mod sounds like a real pain in the ass, though, especially on the DSI Modular Mac where the rollover diodes are mounted through the switches from the looks of it. More things to desolder before switch removal and resolder after.
Actually, if I had to desolder switches, the first ones would probably be those clicky Omrons in that old Wang 725 or whatever board I've got lying around. The switches are fine and feel nice, but the keyboard controller is a load of suck that can't even keep up with my typing speed. Perhaps the switches would be better off reused in a custom keyboard that can actually keep up with a decent touch-typist.
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Stock? Kailh blues. Like MX Blues but a million times better.
Non-stock? Probably Zealiostotles.
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Stock? Kailh blues. Like MX Blues but a million times better.
Non-stock? Probably Zealiostotles.
What springs are you using for your zealiostotles? I've tried 67g and 80g and prefer 67g. Might try 55g and 72g.
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heres a video of the outemu, zorro, and buckling spring comparison. maybe if unicomp would make a smaller version that didnt take up my entire keyboard tray i would be able to like it more. unless you got them all side by side its really not a big deal. the zorros on the ak33 are really easy to press though, they feel significantly softer than the outemu which are significantly softer than the buckling springs. theyre sort of growing on me now that ive used them for longer though.