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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: notmybongos on Tue, 28 March 2017, 10:26:54

Title: A feasibility question – reversable plates and PCB
Post by: notmybongos on Tue, 28 March 2017, 10:26:54
I think a lot left-handed keypad designs get marginalized because there is an assumption that they are only of interested to the left-handed user. This is far from true...but perhaps we can set that aside and explore some other ideas...

What if: on could choose between a left or right handed keyboard?
Looking at my RS96 vIII plate, that seems like a it would almost work – were I to handwire it.

What I don't know: it it possible to engineer a two sided PCB? Obviously this is the key to making such an idea work.


Title: Re: A feasibility question – reversable plates and PCB
Post by: kmba on Tue, 28 March 2017, 10:29:51
Reversible diy keyboard pcbs exist. The Let's Split v2 uses one, making one side alps compatible. It's possible because it doesn't come pre-soldered with diodes or controller so nothing gets in the way.
Title: Re: A feasibility question – reversable plates and PCB
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Tue, 28 March 2017, 10:51:40
Quote from: notmybongos on Tue, 28 March 2017, 10:26:54
I think a lot left-handed keypad designs get marginalized because there is an assumption that they are only of interested to the left-handed user.

"marginalized"? I've never even heard of a left handed keypad design on GH. I can only find two designs when I google search. Just because something is extremely niche/unpopular doesn't mean someones trying to "keep it down"  :))

With that being said, a stand alone numberpad could easily be made dual sided - like the Lets Split or Ergodox. But it's probably easier to just add the 3 missing key positions (for the 2u caps) on the normal facing side. You can this being done already on this GHpad where a full 1u layout is supported, you'd just need to mirror the 'extra' positions of the 2u keys https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38963.0

Having a full size keyboard PCB reversable doesn't make any sense unless it's symertrical (which a RS96 isn't). If you flipped the RS96 plate you'd have to put Esc,Tab,Capslock on the Right side of your board... If that's what you want then I'd suggest hand wiring and posting some pictures!

Someone please correct me if totally flipped keyboard layouts exist  :eek:
Title: Re: A feasibility question – reversable plates and PCB
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 28 March 2017, 11:21:19
They exist and they sell when group buys occur... [GB] The Monarch: Alps 60%+LHTK (Shipped) (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75786.msg1885191#msg1885191) yum
Title: Re: A feasibility question – reversable plates and PCB
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Tue, 28 March 2017, 12:17:05
Quote from: csmertx on Tue, 28 March 2017, 11:21:19
They exist and they sell when group buys occur... [GB] The Monarch: Alps 60%+LHTK (Shipped) (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75786.msg1885191#msg1885191) yum

Nah, that is a right handed numpad layout. It is just positioned on the left side of the board.

I assume that the OP is talking about this style:
(http://i.imgur.com/QkEKRLB.png)
Title: Re: A feasibility question – reversable plates and PCB
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 28 March 2017, 16:57:05
Quote from: nathanrosspowell on Tue, 28 March 2017, 12:17:05
Quote from: csmertx on Tue, 28 March 2017, 11:21:19
They exist and they sell when group buys occur... [GB] The Monarch: Alps 60%+LHTK (Shipped) (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75786.msg1885191#msg1885191) yum

Nah, that is a right handed numpad layout. It is just positioned on the left side of the board.

I assume that the OP is talking about this style:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/QkEKRLB.png)


Dang. When I was closing out tills as a shift supervisor back in the day I would have loved that. My mistake OP
Title: Re: A feasibility question – reversable plates and PCB
Post by: FrostyToast on Tue, 28 March 2017, 17:13:27
The regular Ergodox I know has a reversible pcb which is used for both sides.
Plates also don't have differences between the top side and the underside, so long as they are 1.5mm thick. Just make sure that the clearance for USB ports is on either side and that the controller and USB ports can be soldered on either side.
Furthermore, PCBs intended for cherry switches that have a reversible design can also fit the pins for alps; a few people have made alps Ergodox keyboards due to that coincidence.
Title: Re: A feasibility question – reversable plates and PCB
Post by: digi on Tue, 28 March 2017, 17:17:09
Quote from: notmybongos on Tue, 28 March 2017, 10:26:54
I think a lot left-handed keypad designs get marginalized

#LeftHandsMatter
Title: Re: A feasibility question – reversable plates and PCB
Post by: ineph on Wed, 29 March 2017, 07:48:49
Quote from: nathanrosspowell on Tue, 28 March 2017, 12:17:05
Quote from: csmertx on Tue, 28 March 2017, 11:21:19
They exist and they sell when group buys occur... [GB] The Monarch: Alps 60%+LHTK (Shipped) (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75786.msg1885191#msg1885191) yum

Nah, that is a right handed numpad layout. It is just positioned on the left side of the board.

I assume that the OP is talking about this style:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/QkEKRLB.png)


I imagine typing on it. Would miss a lot

makes me remember this:
Title: Re: A feasibility question – reversable plates and PCB
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 29 March 2017, 11:54:35
Quote from: nathanrosspowell on Tue, 28 March 2017, 10:51:40
Having a full size keyboard PCB reversable doesn't make any sense unless it's symertrical (which a RS96 isn't). If you flipped the RS96 plate you'd have to put Esc,Tab,Capslock on the Right side of your board...
No, that could be done but you would have to duplicate about half of the alphanumeric keys on the PCB at 1/2 unit offset from the others ... if you do standard QWERTY.
With columnar or symmetric stagger, that would not be an issue because that would be symmetric anyway.

Another option would be to split it up into one PCB (and optional plate) per section. You could make one PCB that could be broken apart into multiple pieces and reconnected in different configurations with ribbon cables or jumpers.
Keyboards with breakaway sections have been done a few times before, for instance with the Red Scarf series.
Title: Re: A feasibility question – reversable plates and PCB
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Thu, 30 March 2017, 14:23:17
Quote from: Findecanor on Wed, 29 March 2017, 11:54:35
Quote from: nathanrosspowell on Tue, 28 March 2017, 10:51:40
Having a full size keyboard PCB reversable doesn't make any sense unless it's symertrical (which a RS96 isn't). If you flipped the RS96 plate you'd have to put Esc,Tab,Capslock on the Right side of your board...
No, that could be done but you would have to duplicate about half of the alphanumeric keys on the PCB at 1/2 unit offset from the others ... if you do standard QWERTY.
With columnar or symmetric stagger, that would not be an issue because that would be symmetric anyway.

Another option would be to split it up into one PCB (and optional plate) per section. You could make one PCB that could be broken apart into multiple pieces and reconnected in different configurations with ribbon cables or jumpers.
Keyboards with breakaway sections have been done a few times before, for instance with the Red Scarf series.

I'm confused to what you think I was suggesting. I was pointing out that flipping the 60% section of a board results in a horrible mess  :)) I guess you're right about how it could be 'fixed' but no one is going to make or sell such a Frankensteins monster.

I'm sure we can all agree on one thing though, the thread makes it clear that lefties deserve this marginalization!
Title: Re: A feasibility question – reversable plates and PCB
Post by: Joey Quinn on Thu, 30 March 2017, 17:56:19
Reversible PCBs are only really useful for split keyboards where making 2 different PCBs for each set is just too much trouble.

I use my numpad on the left (not a lefty though), if you want a board with the numpad on the left I'm currently working on something like that but it's a bit out of the ordinary as far as layouts go. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81268.0

The board is actually done but I just haven't ordered the PCBs or cases yet.