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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: stürmisch on Sun, 21 February 2010, 09:26:59

Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: stürmisch on Sun, 21 February 2010, 09:26:59: Hello,

I'm facing the following dilemma: On one hand, I appreciate mechanical keyboards for their usual high quality and precise feedback, but on the other hand, I rather prefer silent flat short-throw keyboards. My experience with mechanical keyboards only includes an IBM Model M, a Cherry G80-3000 (MX clear) and a Cherry G84-5200 (ML).

Since the availability of mechanical keyboards that meet the latter criteria is very limited*, I see myself forced to choose a scissor-switch one. Does anyone here have tested multiple scissor-switch keyboards? Which ones would you recommend? Is the Cherry eVolution STREAM the best choice for my needs?

* I only know of Cherry MLs, but they suck, unfortunately.

On a side note, what do you think of the Cherry Cymotion Expert (ATK)? Could this be described as a poor man's Topre?

Thanks for all helpful answers!
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 21 February 2010, 09:41:17: Do you like the short travel keys because of how quiet they are, or do you like the short travel in general?
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Sun, 21 February 2010, 10:15:57: The eVolution STREAM and Cymotion Expert are carried by major electronics markets (Saturn, Media Markt), so you can try them out yourself.

All non-mechanical Cherrys I've seen so far were exceptionally bad, even for rubber domes. So you shouldn't limit your search to Cherry in the false assumption they generally make quality boards.
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: stürmisch on Sun, 21 February 2010, 10:20:53: Thanks for all the answers so far.

Quote from: ch_123;159798
Do you like the short travel keys because of how quiet they are, or do you like the short travel in general?
I guess I just like (relatively) silent and flat keyboards. Short travel is in itself not important, but you can't have flat without short throw.
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 21 February 2010, 10:21:23: The Cherry G83 is satisfactory as far as rubber domes go. From the sounds of it, I'd rather type on one as opposed to the Cherry Blacks...
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: stürmisch on Sun, 21 February 2010, 10:28:01: Quote from: ch_123;159802
The Cherry G83 is satisfactory as far as rubber domes go.
Well, as I am currently using a G83-6105, I must beg to differ. The keys feel mushy and not uniform (more friction when hit off-center).
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 21 February 2010, 10:29:49: I used one before I got my Unicomp. I recently typed on it again and it was alright. The keys did feel frictiony, and the space bar was terrible, but at least it was probably better than lot of those OEM Dell keyboards.
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Sun, 21 February 2010, 10:36:00: Quote from: ch_123;159802
The Cherry G83 is satisfactory as far as rubber domes go.

They have nasty slider friction. You find them in every other German office, so I know them well. IMHO they're worse than most $1.99-Made in China-atrocities.
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 21 February 2010, 10:37:52: Truth be told, all rubber dome keyboards feel the same to me.
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: microsoft windows on Sun, 21 February 2010, 10:38:20: If you're wanting a flat keyboard, I definitely would not go with an IBM or an HHKB.
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 21 February 2010, 10:49:38: Quote from: stürmisch;159801
Thanks for all the answers so far.

I guess I just like (relatively) silent and flat keyboards. Short travel is in itself not important, but you can't have flat without short throw.

If you want silence, go for either Cherry Browns or Topres.

And in terms of flatness, seems thats more of an aesthetic issue. Around here, we have odd tastes in such things...

(http://www.clickykeyboard.com/_ebay/ibm_1394946/ibm_1394946-001.jpg)
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: test157 on Sun, 21 February 2010, 10:52:47: I'am scissor-switch fan and have Logitech scissors installed in UltraX keyboard (Perfect Touch are even better, but with longer way to switch) and after using several days HHKB with Topre, I want to say that scissors are not so bad too, and when you compare the price then they are just rocks.

I don't want to say, that Topre sucks :) it's really nice to type on it, but for me seems it's just wasting of time, when you have to push keys to 4MM + these high profile keys gave me wrest pain on the second day, what I never had for years when used low profile keyboards with scissor.

overall I want to say if you used before low profile keyboards, and never loved high profile keyboards like Cherry Blues/Browns e.t.c., it's maybe better for you just to go with scissors, you will save at least a lot of bucks, and will not loose ALOT it's for sure

as me, I will continue to use in free time my HHKB just to get it used, and will post small review here some time later with final feelings. but right now my opinion is as I described above. and I think ideal variant for me will be some TEN KEY LESS scissors. but I can't find good one, just buggy microsoft SlideWinder (http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/gaming/productdetails.aspx?pid=102) where impossible to press Control + R + B e.g. and variants like this S-Board 840 (http://www.ergonomicoffice.com.au/catalogue_view.asp?catID=15&prodID=508&nav=) with some kind of "shear mechanism instead of membranes" anyone knows what is this?

maybe someone know quality tenkeyless Scissor boards?
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: elservo on Sun, 21 February 2010, 11:12:48: I guess if someone were to get really used to short travel keys then it would be hard to move from scissors, which are located right next to their actuation, to topres, which might have been made for people that type while standing up (I believe this may be true because of the remark that Topres were made for typing professionals like airline agents).

Seems that to go from scissors to Topres is about as big a switch (no pun intended) as you can do in the keyboard world.
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Sun, 21 February 2010, 11:21:16: I used Logitech UltraX keyboards for many years too, they're decent. As all scissor switch boards they're highly susceptible to dirt though, as any grain of dust can block those tiny scissors.
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: kishy on Sun, 21 February 2010, 11:26:44: Quote from: Mental Hobbit;159817
I used Logitech UltraX keyboards for many years too, they're decent. As all scissor switch boards they're highly susceptible to dirt though, as any grain of dust can block those tiny scissors.

This is something I've always liked about buckling spring keyboards...you could take one to a buffet, use it as your dinner plate and still have the keys actuate properly afterwards.

Though, I don't think buckling springs fit the needs of the OP, nor is anyone likely to use a keyboard as their dinner plate.
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: kishy on Sun, 21 February 2010, 11:34:47: Imagine the 911 call when that monitor shelf collapsed...
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: test157 on Sun, 21 February 2010, 11:38:19: seems it's good variant for the next try
(http://benchmarkreviews.com/images/reviews/input_devices/enermax_ceasar_aurora/Enermax_Aurora_Micro_Top.jpg)
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Sun, 21 February 2010, 11:38:25: Quote from: ripster;159821
I betcha all the R&D money is going into them.

All R&D money goes into how to save another $.01 per thousand pieces in manufacturing cost.
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 21 February 2010, 11:54:08: Quote from: test157;159810
but for me seems it's just wasting of time, when you have to push keys to 4MM

Good thing that Topres actuate about 1mm down.

Quote
And they DO vary quite a bit in feel

Yeah, from '****' to 'even more ****'. Don't you love consumer choice?
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: test157 on Sun, 21 February 2010, 12:09:06: Quote from: ch_123;159829
Good thing that Topres actuate about 1mm down.

yea for sure, and they also feels smoothly, so I need more power to press Scissors. anyway I have to get more time to HHKB, to see how it feels further. I'ts blank + Different layout + Different key switch + My blind type technic was not perfect as I got, just not as described at wiki , so after few nervous days with HHKB I just connected back UltraX for work and HHKB for training.

P.S.: why no good TENKEYLESS scissors board on the market? just microsoft slidewing board, and seems it's not scissor at all. just simple rubber dome.
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: Rajagra on Sun, 21 February 2010, 12:33:02: Quote from: test157;159810
I think ideal variant for me will be some TEN KEY LESS scissors. but I can't find good one,

The original Logitech dinovo is pretty good. I keep it hooked to one of my PCs using one of those tiny $2 bluetooth dongles, though I never use it, I just have other keyboards that are much better for me personally.

I think the later dinovo boards went downhill - too many features, not enough focus on being a typing device.
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: test157 on Sun, 21 February 2010, 12:46:04: yeah I know about dinovo, but it's weird DELETE key, where must be insert what I use alot. till now can't understand why they are doing it. and it's wireless, what is not good for me.
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: kishy on Sun, 21 February 2010, 13:08:44: The delete key isn't limited to that series. A very large number...if not the majority...of Logitech keyboards (that I've seen) have it that way.
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: test157 on Sun, 21 February 2010, 13:09:48: Quote from: kishy;159840
The delete key isn't limited to that series. A very large number...if not the majority...of Logitech keyboards (that I've seen) have it that way.

yes, but not UltraX :D
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: test157 on Sun, 21 February 2010, 13:24:35: interesting why the put between HOME and END page up/down combo?
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 21 February 2010, 13:48:04: I blame Apple for this iMess.
Title: Please recommend me a keyboard.
Post by: test157 on Sun, 21 February 2010, 14:11:31: Quote from: ripster;159851
Like I've said. There will be a jillion of these this year - the Taiwanese like to experiment with layouts.

Show Image
(http://img.iqmore.com/iqmoreidv_img/review/2009/i-rocks_kr6401/04.JPG)

Pink is the new Zune Brown for Asians.

it will be good if they will do web designer, where everyone can design own layout and get this unique keyboard few weeks later to own postbox.