91 is pretty low, we have 93 here. Shell is supposed to have additives that for the most part you may not notice unless you have a direct injected engine. They help postpone carbon build up but you still need the "italian" tune up to do the trick once and again.
I don't know if Costco offers any additives.
The only difference between different gas "brands" in the US is going to be the additives. Shells additives are pretty good, Chevron as well (though at one time there was some anecdotal evidence of "Techron" buildup in some turbocharged engines).
But all the actual gasoline goes into the pipelines and gets mixed with all of the other gasoline. The companies get a quota based on how much they pump in, which allows them to pump out equal amounts.
And the EPA now requires all gasoline to contain certain amounts of some additives, anyways, so the differences by and large are minimal anymore.
The only difference between different gas "brands" in the US is going to be the additives. Shells additives are pretty good, Chevron as well (though at one time there was some anecdotal evidence of "Techron" buildup in some turbocharged engines).
But all the actual gasoline goes into the pipelines and gets mixed with all of the other gasoline. The companies get a quota based on how much they pump in, which allows them to pump out equal amounts.
And the EPA now requires all gasoline to contain certain amounts of some additives, anyways, so the differences by and large are minimal anymore.
Well said!
I will add that most of the difference you find is a matter of how old the station's tanks are and how dirty they are, not necessarily the gas itself. Also, ANY new car should run for 100k miles without the need for any fuel additives such as Techron and such. If your car needed it, the manufacturer would have specified it.
As for 87, 89, 91 vs 93...
Before people get too deep in this, understand much of the world rates gas different, using the R.O.N. scale rather than octane. If I remember right, 93 R.O.N. is the same as 91 octane. Our gas isn't garbage, it's rated different (not that the rating means what many think it does).
Use what the manufacturer states. Higher octane actually burns slower (yes slower!) and requires the ignition timing adjusted to compensate, the slower burn means less explosion under high compression and heat. Some modern injection systems can compensate, but most are tuned for only one or two grades, usually what is stated and e85*.
There are cases where you may be better to run something higher and that is an older high mileage car or a carburetor vehicle. If your engine is pinging on hills (detonation, which is BAD!), while you should get a tuneup (o2 sensor is probably failing), higher octane can sometimes help, but if it's not pinging, run what the manufacturer says because you are wasting money, but also...
So what happens if you run higher octane when you shouldn't?
On older cars you simply waste gas, on newer cars, the emissions controls are so insanely tight that you can actually burn up the catalytic converter. It can clog and drastically reduce performance and even blow out the EGR valve. Contrary to popular belief, removing this stuff will not make your engine run better (not without a computer re-tune). In other words, DON'T! Older carb'd cars had looser emissions and the cats could tolerate some abuse, newer cars absolutely cannot, so unless you want to spend a few hundred on new catalytic converters, run what you are supposed to.
*E85... It may be cheaper, but you also go a lot shorter distance as it contains less energy. If you do the math, it needs to be about 2/3rds the price to break even with normal gas,which is now also being diluted with ethanol. Ethanol is grossly over-rated.
If that is true, why high performance car usually suggests 91 or even higher?
I'm just curious btw
If that is true, why high performance car usually suggests 91 or even higher?
I'm just curious btw
bigger octane = m0ar power
supposidly it also has to do with the engine designed for the gas, but because of the computer, there's absolutely no reason why it can't run on p00r people gas,.
<but you won't get the power>
But the POWER is stupid anyways, because WHY ? you want to get to work quicker ? yea you realllly love work do ya ?.. gotta save the boss some time..
hahahahahhahahahah....
If that is true, why high performance car usually suggests 91 or even higher?I thought someone was putting me on the first time I heard it as well. :))
I'm just curious btw
supposidly it also has to do with the engine designed for the gas, but because of the computer, there's absolutely no reason why it can't run on p00r people gas,.You are sort of right.
(Attachment Link)
LOL nope
Meh, still cheap compared to Europe.(Attachment Link)
LOL nope
WTF? I live in CA, too, and I haven't seen over ~$3.25 in awhile.
While liters in the UK and the US are the same, the gallons are not.Fun fact: They are both currently a secondary unit of measurement and based on the primary measurement of one liter. :P
3.7854 liters to make a US gallon.
4.546 liters to make a UK gallon.
You don't necessarily buy more because you economy depends on it but because you are an oil-producing country. Gas is cheap in Russia and Saudi Arabia as well fot example but those too are producers.
I live in the Netherlands where it has to be imported. Besides that we also tax it heavily because we have a high population density, which leads to risk of air pollution and there are plenty of alternatives in the form of public transport.
Meh, still cheap compared to Europe.(Attachment Link)
LOL nope
WTF? I live in CA, too, and I haven't seen over ~$3.25 in awhile.
I was in Texas a few weeks ago and people apologized for the expensive gas @ $2.25/gallon.
We pay €1.65/Liter around here. (that's somewhere around $6.85/gallon)
The guy did a double take and mentioned that getting groceries would be really expensive at those prices. :))
While liters in the UK and the US are the same, the gallons are not.
3.7854 liters to make a US gallon.
4.546 liters to make a UK gallon.
€1.65/Liter is actually:
€6.25 per US Gallon (about $7 USD)
€7.50 per UK gallon (about $8.41 USD)
As for our gas being cheaper, we buy more because our economy currently depends on it and it being cheap. The average mileage in the U.K. is 9700 miles per year, while we drive 13.7k (almost 50% more), with some age groups pushing 20k miles on average per year. I don't think the US average annual mileage has been under 10k since the late 80's early 90's.
You guys talking about 91 vs 87 octane... Our Shell V-Power in the UK is 99 RON...
You guys talking about 91 vs 87 octane... Our Shell V-Power in the UK is 99 RON...
I bought 100 octane (pre-E85) for years in my old custom tuned car, what's your point? :thumb:
You guys talking about 91 vs 87 octane... Our Shell V-Power in the UK is 99 RON...Knowing what the number means, I'd rather have cheap petrol than high octane fuel. The Americans have it right in this matter.
I don't really get your highlighted comment. Could you explain what you mean?You don't necessarily buy more because you economy depends on it but because you are an oil-producing country. Gas is cheap in Russia and Saudi Arabia as well fot example but those too are producers.
I live in the Netherlands where it has to be imported. Besides that we also tax it heavily because we have a high population density, which leads to risk of air pollution and there are plenty of alternatives in the form of public transport.
This last year was the first time in history we exported more than we imported because we use so much, in fact when oil goes up, our economy struggles. Despite Chinese manufacturing, the US is still a huge producer of goods, particularly items using oil. Also, Scotland is an oil producer, it's fueled the last economic boom you had. Based on your theory, your fuel should also be cheap.
Gasoline prices, 15-May-2017: The average price of gasoline around the world is 3.89 U.S. Dollar per us gallon. (1.03 U.S. Dollar per liter)However, there is substantial difference in these prices among countries. As a general rule, richer countries have higher prices while poorer countries and the countries that produce and export oil have significantly lower prices. One notable exception is the U.S. which is an economically advanced country but has low gas prices. The differences in prices across countries are due to the various taxes and subsidies for gasoline.Globalpetrolprices.com (http://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/)
All countries have access to the same petroleum prices of international markets but then decide to impose different taxes. As a result, the retail price of gasoline is different.
If you think we pay very little, we pay actually pay a truckload compared to the other countries you mentioned. Russia is paying 70 cents per gallon and Saudi pays only 24 cents per gallon.Depends on how you compare. In absolute sense, sure. But if you compare to how much that takes out of your income each year it is a different story:
You guys talking about 91 vs 87 octane... Our Shell V-Power in the UK is 99 RON...
I bought 100 octane (pre-E85) for years in my old custom tuned car, what's your point? :thumb:
did you get ur engine timings and bore adjusted for 100 octane ??
You don't need to bore the motor for an increase in octane.
But yes, the car was dyno tuned for both 100 octane and 97 octane (because a full tank of 100 is $$$, so I had the road course tune set for 97 which was achieved by mixing 91 and 100 at a 1:2 ratio). I also had a 91 tune for road trips that focused on MPG, because I never wanted to buy a truck and a trailer just to haul my toys around when I could drive them instead. Changing the tune took less than 90 seconds with a laptop, most of that time spent fidgeting with cables.
You don't need to bore the motor for an increase in octane.
But yes, the car was dyno tuned for both 100 octane and 97 octane (because a full tank of 100 is $$$, so I had the road course tune set for 97 which was achieved by mixing 91 and 100 at a 1:2 ratio). I also had a 91 tune for road trips that focused on MPG, because I never wanted to buy a truck and a trailer just to haul my toys around when I could drive them instead. Changing the tune took less than 90 seconds with a laptop, most of that time spent fidgeting with cables.
How do you know if the tuning is working efficiently from day to day.
For example, even the same gas station could be supplied with different sources of gas
So maybe it's all 91 octane, but the additives could be different than the gas you had when you went to the tuner.. or a radically different ethanol mix.. these things could greatly alter tuning curves.
Is there some sort of monitoring tool such that you KNOW for a fact that it's working, or is it the belief behind this ordeal that you're really after.
Once the community cracked it open, a whole new world of custom tuning became available to anyone with the time and patience to learn it.
Once the community cracked it open, a whole new world of custom tuning became available to anyone with the time and patience to learn it.Show Image(https://img.memesuper.com/bef6cddceb5c715a5522484f07c1970b_how-much-power-does-nos-give-a-honda-s2000-mighty-car-mods-find-out-paul-walker-nos-meme_350-243.jpeg)
Once the community cracked it open, a whole new world of custom tuning became available to anyone with the time and patience to learn it.Show Image(https://img.memesuper.com/bef6cddceb5c715a5522484f07c1970b_how-much-power-does-nos-give-a-honda-s2000-mighty-car-mods-find-out-paul-walker-nos-meme_350-243.jpeg)
also.. it explodes into blue flames.. /super cool.
(https://img.memesuper.com/16db4fbc0e6fdb741f92c72909a3ec82_17-best-images-about-roffle-on-pinterest-fathers-day-gifts-vtec-just-kicked-in-yo-meme_576-288.jpeg)Once the community cracked it open, a whole new world of custom tuning became available to anyone with the time and patience to learn it.Show Image(https://img.memesuper.com/bef6cddceb5c715a5522484f07c1970b_how-much-power-does-nos-give-a-honda-s2000-mighty-car-mods-find-out-paul-walker-nos-meme_350-243.jpeg)
Does tp4 actually know about engine tuning, or is this just another judgmental assumption about the motives of other peoples spending?
The quality discrepancy between different fuels is very unlikely to have a significant impact, honestly. "Bad" gasoline just isn't common at all in my experience.
But since you seem so genuinely worried about my engine, let me assure you that between the wideband O2 and having direct access to every factory sensor on my laptop, one can "KNOW for a fact." And the ECU would make timing, fuel, boost and other adjustments automatically depending on several factors within specific margins. I was also capable of making minor software adjustments on my own or, for more complex adjustments, sending the data logs to the tuner and getting a new tune to flash.
The stock management system on that car was particularly robust compared to most, especially for it's time. Once the community cracked it open, a whole new world of custom tuning became available to anyone with the time and patience to learn it.
Does tp4 actually know about engine tuning, or is this just another judgmental assumption about the motives of other peoples spending?
The quality discrepancy between different fuels is very unlikely to have a significant impact, honestly. "Bad" gasoline just isn't common at all in my experience.
But since you seem so genuinely worried about my engine, let me assure you that between the wideband O2 and having direct access to every factory sensor on my laptop, one can "KNOW for a fact." And the ECU would make timing, fuel, boost and other adjustments automatically depending on several factors within specific margins. I was also capable of making minor software adjustments on my own or, for more complex adjustments, sending the data logs to the tuner and getting a new tune to flash.
The stock management system on that car was particularly robust compared to most, especially for it's time. Once the community cracked it open, a whole new world of custom tuning became available to anyone with the time and patience to learn it.
I'm am not your enemy.
Your own oversight however MIGHT BE..
The oversight here is, you've invested in a claim, but you've not conclusively / aggressively tested that claim for yourself.
Your statement includes information that --YOU COULD--.. but the description of your methodology indicates that it would be impractical as the procedure is time-intensive.
AND so, the entire investment is ineffective at capturing the peak efficiency you've championed the practice upon.
It's the same as buying holtites and hotswappable keyboards.. NO BODY goes through the trouble of doing swaps more than once because the benefits are seldom tangible..
For your car, Yea, you seem to have the capacity to retune, but the process is so troubling, that you probably wouldn't bother doing it too often..
So , for all of the potential mixtures out there which could impact the efficiency curve, you're not always optimized without an automatic way of persistent monitoring..
In the end, it seems you may feel better about your car.. but you've Not truly accomplished the your original claim to efficiency improvement due to the limitation of monitoring.
Does tp4 actually know anything about engine tuning that he didn't look up on the internet in the last several hours?