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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Rotsiser Mho on Fri, 26 February 2010, 14:14:01

Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: Rotsiser Mho on Fri, 26 February 2010, 14:14:01: So I just got an email today from EliteKeyboards saying they will no longer carry the Filco Zero. Anyone know where I can get one (with Alps switches)?

Thanks.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 26 February 2010, 14:19:01: You're probably going to have to buy one from another member. There was an aspect to the logic in the Filco Zeros that was unacceptable to many people, so the product was discontinued. According to Diatec, they had to implement a slower scan rate to properly debounce the Fukka switches; therefore, if you type very quickly, you could run into some transposition errors. Again, this would only occur if you could something like 150WPM, or on short bursts of typing like "the" for a lot of people. The first person to notice it couldn't type the work "note" without it sending "ntoe." YMMV, though.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: bigpook on Fri, 26 February 2010, 14:26:22: thats too bad. I didn't have that problem with mine but then again I don't type at super-sonic speeds.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 26 February 2010, 14:33:11: You can still buy them from Diatec in Japan, just not elite. I don't really blame him, either. You remember all that, right, pook?
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 26 February 2010, 14:38:47: When you win awards for a defective product, why should you discontinue it? Das didn't.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: bigpook on Fri, 26 February 2010, 14:52:35: Quote from: itlnstln;160965
You can still buy them from Diatec in Japan, just not elite. I don't really blame him, either. You remember all that, right, pook?

something about 'walls of text'

yeah, that got pretty ugly

those were the days lol
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: bigpook on Fri, 26 February 2010, 14:55:20: lol, welly was on fire with that...
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: Rotsiser Mho on Fri, 26 February 2010, 15:00:35: Hmmm, I don't think importing one from Japan is going to be very cost-effective. Can anyone recommend a similar keyboard? I'm looking for a black clicky tenkeyless (preferably with blue LEDs, but hey I can live without them).

I'm typing on an '84 Model M right now, but it's starting to show it's age. On that note, I'm willing to trade this guy for a Zero if that entices anyone.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: bigpook on Fri, 26 February 2010, 15:09:09: You may want to consider a tenkeyless with cherry blues?
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: bigpook on Fri, 26 February 2010, 15:29:39: LED color? Its all about the keys. Browns would be nice, but they are not clicky.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 26 February 2010, 15:34:31: Neither were the Fukkas, IIRC, so the best bet, IMO, is a Das S with Cherry blues.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: bigpook on Fri, 26 February 2010, 15:52:16: I like it best when the LEDs are not illuminated. Especially on the Filco, as they are blindingly bright.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 26 February 2010, 15:52:28: Quote from: ripster
Haha - but he wants tenkeyless.

Damnit. BTW, that bike is HAWT (I would bet money a Paesan owns it).

Keep working at that Cherry. You'll get it one day.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: Rotsiser Mho on Fri, 26 February 2010, 16:37:08: Quote from: ripster;160992
Boring technical sidenote. Someday I'll crack open this cherry (you know what I meant) and look for 5V pads. I don't think you can get the 3.5V needed for a simple LED swap.

Actually I thought of that too. I'm not sure I follow you though. 3.5V should be enough for a blue LED if that's what the voltage on them is.

Also, how do Cherry Blues compare to the Buckling Springs on a Model M?
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 26 February 2010, 16:41:00: Cherry blues are much lighter and higher pitched. I think they're pretty nice. I don't like the clicking personally, but a lot people here do. I think you would be served well by a Cherry blue 'board. I would jump on it.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: elservo on Fri, 26 February 2010, 17:15:54: Cherry blues are the only way to go if you want to be cool and with it.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: ricercar on Fri, 26 February 2010, 17:25:47: Quote from: ripster;161012
Blue Leds require more forward voltage.

Gosh Darn It! I have a handful of blue LEDs that I was going to swap into a LED VU Meter kit (http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/6522). I'd never considered they'd need a different voltage. This means I can't even swap them into my TG3 backlit. What ever will I do with 50 blue LEDs now?

Horrors, chaos, rage of angels.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: majestouch on Fri, 26 February 2010, 19:39:39: Quote from: ripster;160973
Just saying, I doubt Majestouch stopped stocking it because of the scan rate issue. I think it had more to do with Welly stalking him outside his apartment.

Heh, this is closer to the reality. The board just didn't move well, so it got the axe. From what I hear they sell ok in Japan. I dunno how much effect geekhack talk of transposition problems had on sales, but welly was the only customer to ever e-mail me about any issues.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: Rotsiser Mho on Sat, 27 February 2010, 15:06:24: Quote from: webwit;161009
I like the Fukkas over the Blues. Also closer to the Model M.

But do you know where I can find one? ;-) What other keyboards are available with ALPS switches? Any tenkeyless ones?
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: Rotsiser Mho on Sat, 27 February 2010, 16:09:24: Quote from: ripster;161182
Frankly I'd recommend just getting a Filco Blue Cherry tenkeyless and be happy. LEDs are green. Being green is in.

Yeah, that's the way I'm leaning. Just looking for other options. What about buckling springs? So far I haven't been able to find an IBM space saver though. Did they ever make one in black?
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: Rotsiser Mho on Sat, 27 February 2010, 16:34:13: Quote from: ripster;161192
Not in black.

Just IBM Industrial Gray ($500 and the whole kit is yours! (http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-7587-Industrial-Computer-Works_W0QQitemZ190373993741QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2c532c9d0d)).
Show Image
(http://i12.ebayimg.com/05/i/001/2c/19/fe6c_12.JPG)

Ha ha, that's the keyboard I'm typing on now.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: salcan on Sat, 27 February 2010, 18:08:48: Quote from: Rotsiser Mho;161178
But do you know where I can find one? ;-) What other keyboards are available with ALPS switches? Any tenkeyless ones?

Siig Minitouch
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6945

usually a few kicking around on ebay
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 08 March 2010, 18:35:41: Quote from: bigpook;160974
lol, welly was on fire with that...

um, yea, sorry about that guys ;)

lol, the OP emailed me looking to buy the zero (i sold it long ago).

yea well, it wasnt so much a minor keyboard defect that got me going, it was the lack of service (return policy) that got me going... otherwise that entire episode wouldnt have happened at all...

:-D Ah, the memories.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: Rotsiser Mho on Wed, 10 March 2010, 12:47:28: Quote from: wellington1869;162621
um, yea, sorry about that guys ;)

lol, the OP emailed me looking to buy the zero (i sold it long ago).

yea well, it wasnt so much a minor keyboard defect that got me going, it was the lack of service (return policy) that got me going... otherwise that entire episode wouldnt have happened at all...

:-D Ah, the memories.

Oh wow, I found your original threads regarding this board. I'm definitely not that fast a typer so I'm not concerned about the scan-rate issue. I can get the XM switch one from keyboardco.com. Are the XM switches really that bad? Keep in mind I'm used to a Model M and I think I'd find the Cherry Blues to be too light.

Thanks!
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 10 March 2010, 12:58:31: I would stay with the Model M. I don't think the difference in resistance is that great between XMs and BS that the flaws in the XM switches would be disappointing (Model Ms' resistance does vary some, though, so YMMV). If you're looking to stay in the 65-70g of resistance range, I would stick with the best.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: Rotsiser Mho on Wed, 10 March 2010, 14:34:25: Quote from: itlnstln;162948
I would stay with the Model M. I don't think the difference in resistance is that great between XMs and BS that the flaws in the XM switches would be disappointing (Model Ms' resistance does vary some, though, so YMMV). If you're looking to stay in the 65-70g of resistance range, I would stick with the best.

So what are the flaws exactly with the XMs? The only thing I could find sniffing the forums is that they are "balky". I'm not sure even sure what that means, ha ha.

I'd go with the Model M, but I want something a bit smaller and with a Windows key. How do the XMs compare to Cherry Blues then?
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 10 March 2010, 14:40:39: Quote from: Rotsiser Mho;162971
So what are the flaws exactly with the XMs? The only thing I could find sniffing the forums is that they are "balky". I'm not sure even sure what that means, ha ha.

I'd go with the Model M, but I want something a bit smaller and with a Windows key. How do the XMs compare to Cherry Blues then?

XMs tend to be stiff and frictiony. They also have their tactility focused toward the top of the keystroke unlike the Model M. I think what you are probably looking for is the Unicomp Spacesaver:

(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/pckeyboards_2078_23838)
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: Rotsiser Mho on Wed, 10 March 2010, 14:48:45: I really really though about that one and almost bought it until I learned of the existence of tenkeyless boards. If Unicomp made a tenkeyless, I wouldn't have hesitated. Sadly, I really want to center the keyboard in front of my monitor without reaching for the mouse, hence my dilemma.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 10 March 2010, 14:57:21: Either that or the HHKB if you really value your mouse reach over switches as the Topres don't click (that, and they're pricey).
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 10 March 2010, 15:31:44: Or these. (http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/categories.main/parentcat/9242/endrw/36)

Can someone please ring up Jim Owens and find out what the deuce with that UNIC046 layout is?
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: spolia optima on Thu, 11 March 2010, 15:39:49: Quote from: ripster;162999
Great idea but why pay anybody? My laser printer can do that.
[IG]http://www.clickykeyboard.com/2006/1394054/1394054-001.jg[/IMG]

When I sell my keyboards ALL will become magically NIB.

Even better, get a factory in rural china to start making Model M space saver clones. They are totally down for that shizz.

People would get suspicious when they notice the "IBN" logo, but it could just as easily be a typo.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 11 March 2010, 15:41:36: Quote from: spolia optima;163251
Even better, get a factory in rural china to start making Model M space saver clones. They are totally down for that shizz.

People would get suspicious when they notice the "IBN" logo, but it could just as easily be a typo.

Hell, Newegg did it. I just put one of Imtel's latest processors into my rig, and it's blazin' fast now. Thanks, Newegg!
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: spolia optima on Thu, 11 March 2010, 15:45:23: Quote from: itlnstln;163252
Hell, Newegg did it. I just put one of Imtel's latest processors into my rig, and it's blazin' fast now. Thanks, Newegg!

I haven't visited chinatown since starting my keyboard hobby. I doubt they'll have anything other that rubber domes, but I WILL be on the look for chinzy mainland china mechanicals next time. You never know what you'll find in chinatown.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 11 March 2010, 15:45:28: What puzzles me about that one is that Unicomp built that Spacesaver for iMav (he sold it to Webwit), but they couldn't build any more after that. Astounding.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 11 March 2010, 15:46:04: Quote from: spolia optima;163254
I haven't visited chinatown since starting my keyboard hobby. I doubt they'll have anything other that rubber domes, but I WILL be on the look for chinzy mainland china mechanicals next time. You never know what you'll find in chinatown.

Do you live in SF?
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: pfink on Thu, 11 March 2010, 16:11:44: Quote from: itlnstln;163255
What puzzles me about that one is that Unicomp built that Spacesaver for iMav (he sold it to Webwit), but they couldn't build any more after that. Astounding.

They probably just had old IBM/Lexmark parts in stock and he got the last one that was put together before they ran out of some crucial component or another.

Edit: Found this:

http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=57468&postcount=10

Didn't somebody post on here once that a Unicomp rep said they didn't have any Space Saver controllers left and it would be cost prohibitive to order a new run of them? I thought I remembered reading that a while back but I can't find the post.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 11 March 2010, 16:14:17: They're just a bunch of pussies. They just need to take a fu*king chance.

(The preceding was sponsered by - George Carlin and Buddy Jesus)
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: pfink on Thu, 11 March 2010, 16:34:18: Quote from: itlnstln;163255
What puzzles me about that one is that Unicomp built that Spacesaver for iMav (he sold it to Webwit), but they couldn't build any more after that. Astounding.

Found this:

http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=57468&postcount=10
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: MsKeyboard on Thu, 11 March 2010, 16:51:44: Hey, isn't that the couch Laptop Girl was sitting on?
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: ricercar on Sat, 13 March 2010, 10:11:40: Quote from: ripster;163300
captured Laptop Girl when I had the chance.

Heh. You remind me of "The Collector," by Fowles.

Would laptop girl by any chance be a blonde on the beach, or perhaps the asian with black lingerie? I have my own collection of Geekhack image attachments.
Title: Looking for a Filco Zero Tenkeyless with Alps switches
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 15 March 2010, 07:42:29: She was a blonde in a short dress sitting on that couch with a laptop on her lap. I remember her well.